From my understanding, SteamOS is locked down in that all you can do is play games and surf the web. You can not install any software within SteamOS without hacking it. You can install another Os beside it but nothing within it without hacking it.
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Who Will Buy A $500 Steam Machine?
- Thread starter CommanderFrank
- Start date
They're not going to provide a user interface mechanism for installing non-Steam third-party software, as I understand it. But for those who aren't afraid of dropping to the command line....
Maybe that constitutes "hacking it" but I'm not really sure that I consider it that. Especially since, no doubt, somebody will come along and automate it with a simple download and package install for those who haven't yet learned to embrace the awesomeness that is the command line.
We'll know more when we get to see just what SteamOS is. Surely, the barer it is, the more work on the user side to install other stuff. But that could be as easy as plugging in a USB flash drive with the software you want to install, or downloading it from the command line, etc.
There are ways. muaahahahaa
This article was posted on the front page here before, not sure if you read it before but here you go. Might not be able to get to a command line without hacking it to get things working. Valve wants this locked down so they can control it. Sure you can hack it but at that point I doubt they will offer much support after.They're not going to provide a user interface mechanism for installing non-Steam third-party software, as I understand it. But for those who aren't afraid of dropping to the command line....
Maybe that constitutes "hacking it" but I'm not really sure that I consider it that. Especially since, no doubt, somebody will come along and automate it with a simple download and package install for those who haven't yet learned to embrace the awesomeness that is the command line.
We'll know more when we get to see just what SteamOS is. Surely, the barer it is, the more work on the user side to install other stuff. But that could be as easy as plugging in a USB flash drive with the software you want to install, or downloading it from the command line, etc.
There are ways. muaahahahaa
Pay close attention to this part in the article.
I have seen that article but I think you're drawing too much from it. Yeah, they won't have a desktop environment installed by default. And that's probably mostly because they all suck and they don't want to have to provide software support for third-party broken stuff. I suspect Steam Machines OEMs will be free to install whatever software they want. Kind of like Android.
From the launch page:
And from the Q&A:
So users can alter the software and the OS is free and open source, which means anybody can go in there and roll out whatever they want on top of SteamOS and re-distribute it.
If it's running the X.org display server (and it has to be, because the other servers aren't finished yet and you know Valve didn't make their own), then a simple Ctrl-Alt-F1 will drop you to a text console. Or you can probably just ssh into the box.
There are ways.
But all signs point to Valve wanting this to be an open system.
From the launch page:
And from the Q&A:
So users can alter the software and the OS is free and open source, which means anybody can go in there and roll out whatever they want on top of SteamOS and re-distribute it.
If it's running the X.org display server (and it has to be, because the other servers aren't finished yet and you know Valve didn't make their own), then a simple Ctrl-Alt-F1 will drop you to a text console. Or you can probably just ssh into the box.
There are ways.
But all signs point to Valve wanting this to be an open system.
For those of you who would rather use a keyboard and mouse with their Steambox or existing PC wired via HDMI to your TV and are having trouble with a keyboard and mouse on the couch, buy a laptop cushion, like one pictured below.
I've got one I used in the living room. I balance it on my upper legs, put the keyboard on the left side with part of it hanging off the edge, and have the mouse and mousepad on the right side. Works pretty well.
I've got one I used in the living room. I balance it on my upper legs, put the keyboard on the left side with part of it hanging off the edge, and have the mouse and mousepad on the right side. Works pretty well.
For the record, i love Steam.
Hardly equivalent. The difference between Surface RT and SteamOS is A) No ugly Metro on SteamOS, B) Top-tier developers are already interested and developing for SteamOS
So there's that.
funkydmunky
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For those of you who would rather use a keyboard and mouse with their Steambox or existing PC wired via HDMI to your TV and are having trouble with a keyboard and mouse on the couch, buy a laptop cushion, like one pictured below.
I've got one I used in the living room. I balance it on my upper legs, put the keyboard on the left side with part of it hanging off the edge, and have the mouse and mousepad on the right side. Works pretty well.
Did you just try to pull cred with that pic?
KickAssCop
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Already have a ~$3000 gaming PC. Also, don't feel comfortable playing games on my bed compared to my computer chair. Steambox can suck it.
Unless there are exclusives (which I believe there won't be), this is a complete nonsense for any gaming/hardware enthusiast.
Good money making machine though for Valve.
Unless there are exclusives (which I believe there won't be), this is a complete nonsense for any gaming/hardware enthusiast.
Good money making machine though for Valve.
DraginDime
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I'm kind of surprised at some of the negative comments about the steambox. While I'm sure most of us here on [H] already have machines that are far superior to it, I think it will have it's place in the market. I think with the openness and the upgradability of the steambox will push more people to move away from consoles onto PC gaming. As long as developers give PC titles a little more love, and clean up some of the shitty ports that happen, it will be a win/win for everyone.
I have thought about buying one for my kids. They've been hitting me up for a PS4/Xbone, but I'm trying to nudge them to PC gaming. I will wait to see what all price options they offer.
I have thought about buying one for my kids. They've been hitting me up for a PS4/Xbone, but I'm trying to nudge them to PC gaming. I will wait to see what all price options they offer.
I can explain my stand point for being negative.
When it comes to gaming you have consoles and you have pcs. Both have their pros and cons.
When looking at the average person they like consoles because they are easy to connect to a tv, they are easy to use, and they don't need to know about any specs to know if they can play a game. PC gaming on the other hand requires you to know how to get your computer working with your tv, know what specs you have to be able to play games, can't be done as easily from the couch.
When it comes to the steam box you solve almost nothing in that area for PC. It should be easier to connect to the tv, and with the controller hopefully a little easier to fully control from the couch. but you still need to know your specs to know if you can play games. you also now add in a new issue where people have to know if a game will work with steam box (linux) when purchasing a game on steam instead of just assuming that they can buy any game they see. Which in theory they can, but that then adds more complexity to everything to stream that off of a second computer to play the windows based games.
Overall it doesn't really solve any of the things holding people back from PC gaming as it, but in my opinion actually makes it a little more complex if anything.
I guess there's been a lot of misinformation being spread around out there. But the words from Valve are clear: open system, open hardware, open source. You can swap out your own hardware and software.
You really can't even lock out a file system on commodity PC hardware like this. If you have physical access, you have root.
I will probably buy one to get my kids off my gaming rig.
Also, hearing a lot of negativity around this - but I don't see why. Competition on the console space will help consumers - not hurt. This should be a huge boost to Linux gaming as well - which even with Steam for Linux is quite dormant.
I personally see these making slow inroads - but a $500 steam machine in 2014 could become a $200 steam machine in 2016. I have no problems with PC gaming in a console footprint.
Also - open hardware, open source OS. You don't have to keep Steam OS on it. I also am dying to try out the controller. I like K&M - but sometimes it would be nice to just sit back on my couch to play.
Anyways - I see far more pros than cons. I'm obviously optimistic. And again, it will be very nice to get my kids off my gaming rig and still have their steam library to play anywhere in the house...
Also, hearing a lot of negativity around this - but I don't see why. Competition on the console space will help consumers - not hurt. This should be a huge boost to Linux gaming as well - which even with Steam for Linux is quite dormant.
I personally see these making slow inroads - but a $500 steam machine in 2014 could become a $200 steam machine in 2016. I have no problems with PC gaming in a console footprint.
Also - open hardware, open source OS. You don't have to keep Steam OS on it. I also am dying to try out the controller. I like K&M - but sometimes it would be nice to just sit back on my couch to play.
Anyways - I see far more pros than cons. I'm obviously optimistic. And again, it will be very nice to get my kids off my gaming rig and still have their steam library to play anywhere in the house...
But that goes with what is being said. If you boot into the OS without making any changes you can't do that stuff. So either you rewrite the OS yourself or get a "cracked version". Or you drop into root and modify the system, assuming it is easy to get into single user mode. Either way, you are having to modify the system from how it is designed. you also are assuming that their open source, custom version of Linux would support any existing packages for you to install without having to modify anything. Go try to red hat rpms on a debian install, let us know how that works.
Out of the box you can surf the internet and you can play games. That is what you keep hearing. Anything else would require changing the OS in some way outside of the normal methods.
lostinseganet
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It's only chance is half life 3
Nobody is denying that it's going to be packaged with no software other than Steam. I just don't think that constitutes being "locked down".
To others of us that does. It is the same a your phone being locked down, sure you can jail break it, but that isn't something normal average people do. So for all normal purposes your iPhone is locked down to only installing apps from the App Store.
You can jailbreak a PS3 to install other stuff, but do you normally also refer to the PS3 as being an open system?
No, it's not like that at all. Where did you read that it's going to be locked down like an iPhone or PS3? That's just misinformation.
You keep saying it is misinformation but your response is that I am wrong because you can install a new OS, root the system to access single user mode, or rewrite the OS. None of
My information comes from all the articles stating that this is NOT a replacement for your normal desktop, that this isn't a desktop OS meant to be used like one that instead is a custom version of Linux with that only interface being the steam client. It is created to be like your normal console.
Where did you read that you can install any program that you want? You keep wanting to claim misinformation. Where are your sources proving your stance?
I quoted right from Valve themselves and posted it here in this thread with a link to my source.
I have heard from no source anywhere that SteamOS is "locked down" like an iPhone. Nowhere.
You seem to think that "not having a desktop installed" and "not having Firefox installed" is the equivalent of preventing you from going ahead and installing them yourself. Those are two completely different ideas in my mind.
I have heard from no source anywhere that SteamOS is "locked down" like an iPhone. Nowhere.
You seem to think that "not having a desktop installed" and "not having Firefox installed" is the equivalent of preventing you from going ahead and installing them yourself. Those are two completely different ideas in my mind.
You are quoting that it is open source, open hardware... that is different from allowing you full access to everything.
Yes, if you want you can make your own version of the OS to include your app. There is a disjoin between what a developer can do with the OS and what the average person could do.
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Stea...-Distribution-According-to-Valve-397599.shtml
Then you have the quote from that engaget article (http://www.engadget.com/2013/11/04/valve-steam-machine-hands-on/) that was posted above
All articles keeps stating it is NOT a desktop replacement that you have a very basic custom Linux distro that runs the Steam client and can surf the web but that is it. No media playback, no file system manager. That seems to be something that articles keep brining up is how it is not going to replace your desktop, I have not seen a single one say however just bring up your terminal and use apt-get or yum and problem solved.
another article http://www.tomshardware.com/news/steamos-steam-box-steam-machines-valve,24994.html
MrGuvernment
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Running a version of linux...who knows how modified or functional with other apps you want to put on it.
Thats like saying Windows is locked down to only running windows apps and not Mac OS apps. Just because something isnt compatible with an OS doesnt mean that OS is inherently locked down to one particular type of use. SteamOS simply does not support the installation of 3rd party apps by the user. Valve did not go out of their way like Apple to restrict this functionality, they simply never included it in the first place. In fact the OS is completely opposite of being locked down, because they will provide source code and let you do whatever you want with it.
While it might be true that their target audience might not bother with this, and thus use it in a "locked down state", the OS is certainly not locked by any stretch of the imagination. Claiming as such only confuses users.
Furthermore, when someone wants to jailbreak their iPhone, they have to hunt for jailbreaking software on certain forums, filter through all sorts of technical data, risk voiding their warranty, bricking their device, and modifying it in such a manner that they could reduce functionality instead of enhance it. There will be no such concerns with SteamOS. People will release custom builds, advertise it clearly, and there will be no risk to the user installing it. If it's buggy or you dont like it, just find another build. This will probably not be confused to anyone who uses it.
Is there a Valve quote that confirms the limits of the OS or is this a leap to conclusions based off the prototypes. Myself I could see where valve wants to debug only gameplay issues and not some problem with some firefox add-in, so it forced Steam Client interface only. Not saying that's what they did, but it may have been premature to base conclusions entirely off the prototype hardware.
Nobody's really denying that though. It's not such a bad idea. It's a bit out of Valve's wheelhouse to develop a whole desktop OS, and basing off of something else like Ubuntu would put an unfair support burden upstream.
They'll have media playback inside the client eventually. They're still working on that aspect. I don't know if it'll be ready on launch day, but that's an advertised feature.
dgz
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That sounds reasonable to me.
It would be silly of Valve to lock retail system OS after initially stating it's all open.
4saken
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No interest. I dont even really see that there is a need for a steam box TBH.
It doesnt compete with Consoles, and it doesnt really compete with a HTPCs. Very small niche.
It doesnt compete with Consoles, and it doesnt really compete with a HTPCs. Very small niche.
The irony here is that metro/win8 actually makes for a pretty nice htpc experience. The one saving grace that has me excited for steamos is streaming games from my gaming rig. If that doesn't work well or if steam doesn't provide 360 controller support, my next htpc box will be win 8.
If it only allows for streaming of steam games, I'd have to think about it.
Do you often write your own OS? Given people the source code, which is normal for Linux. doesn't suddenly make the system wide open and capable of everyone being able to install any and every program they want. Not only would you need to rewrite the OS, but then also rewrite the program that you want to run as they are using their own custom version of Linux, not Debian or Red Hat or any other version that would have a package manager.
My claims cause no such confusion. You are just reaching for validation as much as possible. By default, out of the box you can not install 3rd party programs. you aren't being given a fully working desktop version of Linux with a steam client but are given a version of Linux that has just enough added to the kernel to run a custom GUI which is made up of the steam client. For 99% of the users they are stuck with this. If you are a programmer then you can write your own modified version to give it more functionality. however most people are not going to be able to do that.
You are talking about average people who can't use a PC for games, yes they will be confused by that. The world isn't made up of IT people. Remember the focus of this device is people that aren't smart enough to connect a pc to a computer and instead want / need something as simple as a console with very few options. Yes that will confuse them very much. First off they wouldn't know how to install a new OS, most of these people don't know how to install any programs and can't figure out how to configure a email client or run windows update. Installing a new OS would be beyond them. And if it is buggy, they are really just screwed.
We are looking at the average person, the person that can't install a new OS, the person that isn't going to be able to write their own OS. The person that gets the machine and uses it like they use a console, right out of the box with whatever it allows them to do.
For a select few sure, there are no limits. The point of these system is simple, easy to use, let a user start it up and play a game, just like with a console. Having to hunt down different builds, reinstall the OS, modify the OS... none of that stuff is something the average person would do, or is expected to do. So for the average person it is locked down, which by that I am not saying that it is 100% impossible to make any changes. Just that for the average person out there, they can't install 3rd party programs. You are given a GUI and that is what you use, you are given certain functionality and that is what you can use. Without making major changes you can't just replace the GUI with KDE or GNOME or whatever, install all your normal Linux apps and turn it into your normal desktop machine.
The valve quote comes from them telling the person that there will not be a file management system or any media viewing software. And from Gabe saying that this isn't meant to be a replacement for windows 8. That this is a OS for playing steam games.
The idea isn't for this to be a fully working Linux machine acting like your normal desktop. It is to be like a console for the average person. You start it up, you play games. Anything above and beyond that, if you are a person with that knowledge of how to use Linux and would be the person that would want to install a lot of other stuff, you would put whatever your distro of choice is on the box and just use that.