Who Stole $400 Million From Mt. Gox?

CreepyUncleGoogle

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It is time.

Not_sure_if_serious-Joker_zps0903da50.jpg

Did you ever look at like paper money? There are numbers on them and they can easily be marked with ink. Also, fingerprints....there's a lot of ways to do it. Once again, refer to the 1970's when cash was constantly getting chased after to stop illegal drugs before the internet made all the pedophiles come out of their closets.
 

pcjunkie

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Um...cash transactions are pretty easy to track. That's how alphabet agencies used to totally bust people all the time in the 70s and 80s and junk. Don't you watch any Matlock reruns? And no, lots more other money systems are used for normal business transactions than bitcoins because bitcoins were either made and not spent or spent on the few super questionable places that accepted them until like a couple months ago. You can totally bet that if a bitcoin changed hands a year ago, it was probably buying something illegal like a gun, another human, or a drug.

I think people treat bitcoins more like a stock than using them as cash transactions. Therein lies another problem because people will hoard them hoping the price goes up rather than down while not putting them into circulation. The good thing about a dollar today is we know it will be worth a dollar next week so we tend not to hold onto those dollars and using them to stabilize the economy, or not.
 

oblox

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I think people treat bitcoins more like a stock than using them as cash transactions. Therein lies another problem because people will hoard them hoping the price goes up rather than down while not putting them into circulation. The good thing about a dollar today is we know it will be worth a dollar next week so we tend not to hold onto those dollars and using them to stabilize the economy, or not.

Shucks, I guess all those preaching the time value of money are idiots too. :rolleyes:
 

SunnyD

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Bit coin mining is NOT solving real world problem. It is cracking encryption for the sake of cracking encryption and doing NOTHING OF VALUE. There is NOBODY awaiting on the result of the encryption cracking to take advantage of it's value.

And like I said; if there was some REAL VALUE TO IT ALL this would be something worthwhile. NOTHING=NO THING=NOTHING

This kind of reminds me of the argument that our universes genesis was by sheer chance.
Chance is nothing. It has no mass, no energy, no being.

There's no "cracking encryption" going on anywhere in the blockchain.

Nothing of real value? So you're telling me, as a merchant who accepts Bitcoin, that someone validating the transaction between someone sending me a payment for goods or services I provided them to ensure that their end of the transaction is valid so that I actually receive valid payment has no real value, is not worthwhile, or in your terms is "NOTHING"?

Really?

:rolleyes:

REALLY?
 

CreepyUncleGoogle

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Ok now you are just trolling. I am done wasting my time trying to reason with you. I'll PM you a pic of my lambo next year when BTC rebounds:cool:

Oooookay...a little off topic, but I could think of tons of more awesome things to do with money than spend it on something as silly as a car. Why not investments, property, or something from which to draw interest that compounds favorably. This is sorta why its hard to take people seriously because sometimes it's pretty obvious they don't understand how to make money and their big dreams are for material things rather than a means to get those things in a sustainable manner.

I think people treat bitcoins more like a stock than using them as cash transactions. Therein lies another problem because people will hoard them hoping the price goes up rather than down while not putting them into circulation. The good thing about a dollar today is we know it will be worth a dollar next week so we tend not to hold onto those dollars and using them to stabilize the economy, or not.

Yes, that's pretty true. If bitcoins are supposed to be a currency, they're going to have to stabilize quite a bit more. People won't really flock to them if they can't expect that a certain amount of a coin will be enough to buy a loaf of bread the next day. The only way to get there is to do what people are screaming about not having happen, which is regulatory control of a large, stable organization. At the moment, they really are like high risk stocks and not money.
 

pcjunkie

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Shucks, I guess all those preaching the time value of money are idiots too. :rolleyes:

Dear lord do you have anything useful to say? All you coin boys do nothing but spit out the same smart ass comments without anything useful to say. No wonder nobody takes you coiners seriously.
 

oblox

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Dear lord do you have anything useful to say? All you coin boys do nothing but spit out the same smart ass comments without anything useful to say. No wonder nobody takes you coiners seriously.

lol, you're the one that is coming across as ignorant on numerous levels. Can't help it if I keep proving you wrong. Schools out, son. :D
 

opfreak

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talk about a circle argument. bitcoin wouldn't exist without miners. but miners wouldn't exist without bitcoin.
 

nvgrim

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Oooookay...a little off topic, but I could think of tons of more awesome things to do with money than spend it on something as silly as a car. Why not investments, property, or something from which to draw interest that compounds favorably. This is sorta why its hard to take people seriously because sometimes it's pretty obvious they don't understand how to make money and their big dreams are for material things rather than a means to get those things in a sustainable manner.
obviously i was being facetious,im not much of a lambo fan anyways i like porsches more,but if i had tons of BTC id probably buy one from that dealership and enjoy for a year or two and then sell it. Cars are my second biggest hobby,so its only fitting i buy something id never be able to afford pre-crypto if i had the money. I dont need 10 houses and millions upon millions of dollars to be happy like some people.
 

pcjunkie

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lol, you're the one that is coming across as ignorant on numerous levels. Can't help it if I keep proving you wrong. Schools out, son. :D

LOL...just the kind of comment I'd expect out of you and the other coiner...keep up the poor communication, your doing a fantastic 3rd grade level of it. ;)
 

CreepyUncleGoogle

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obviously i was being facetious,im not much of a lambo fan anyways i like porsches more,but if i had tons of BTC id probably buy one from that dealership and enjoy for a year or two and then sell it. Cars are my second biggest hobby,so its only fitting i buy something id never be able to afford pre-crypto if i had the money. I dont need 10 houses and millions upon millions of dollars to be happy like some people.

Its really total cost of ownership thing that gets a lot of people who get a lump sum of monies. They spend it on something they'd otherwise be unable to afford and not factor in the sustainment of the purchase requires money too. I guess it's more or less a whatever makes you happy kinda thing though. I know if I won a lottery or got a bunch of money from bitcoins or some other one off kinda thing, I'd be cautious not to consider myself rich. Wealth is a long-term thing that happens to people who can manage money really well to make it work favorably for them given the limits of their incomes. Not that I would know. I don't do finance counseling or anything as a job or something else mysterious. I just work for the NSA or something like a few people here insist. :p
 

Stiletto

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Did you ever look at like paper money? There are numbers on them and they can easily be marked with ink. Also, fingerprints....there's a lot of ways to do it. Once again, refer to the 1970's when cash was constantly getting chased after to stop illegal drugs before the internet made all the pedophiles come out of their closets.

Did you ever look at like paper money? It's mostly old, crumpled, torn, water damaged, etc. It's also probably been handled by dozens, hundreds, or even thousands of people depending on the age. The majority of bills that are traced are counterfeit bills, which are new enough and different enough that they're easy to spot and subject to forensic analysis.

And it was rarely cash that was getting chased after when it came to drugs. It was usually overseas accounts that left a paper trail far more compelling then the 87 different overlapping fingerprints on that cocaine-laden Benjamin. The majority of times that cash implicated someone was when they were caught with it in their possession.
 

pcjunkie

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You're so worked up about something you have no understanding of that you've developed an epithet for those who do?

Wow, dude. Just fucking wow.

LOL...who's the worked up one...man let it go...they keep saying I don't understand but yet I do. Is that what bothers some of you so much? Seriously I have to go...c ya! :p
 

noobferguson

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Bitcoin may not be "work," because it might not be tangible, but neither is credit, inflation, banking, or the international financial system.

It's not as if coins or forms of currency were adopted in a day. It took hundreds if not thousands of years for arbitrary measures of metals (that arguably serve no practical purpose in day-to-day life unless you need the metal to build with) to be accepted as "valuable" by agreement of everyone involved in a community.

Early merchants and bankers were also derided as people who made money but didn't "work," but they were essential and instrumental in creating what we consider today the lifeblood of commerce and international trade.

So, that's what Bitcoin represents-- a new form of currency that sets out to improve upon existing forms of currency, and miners are the early adopters and proponents of this form. Whether it's an effective form, or it ought to succeed is not something I know yet, but you can't just say there's no "work" involved, because money and work is--as they've always been-- worth whatever people think it's worth.
 

CreepyUncleGoogle

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Did you ever look at like paper money? It's mostly old, crumpled, torn, water damaged, etc. It's also probably been handled by dozens, hundreds, or even thousands of people depending on the age. The majority of bills that are traced are counterfeit bills, which are new enough and different enough that they're easy to spot and subject to forensic analysis.

And it was rarely cash that was getting chased after when it came to drugs. It was usually overseas accounts that left a paper trail far more compelling then the 87 different overlapping fingerprints on that cocaine-laden Benjamin. The majority of times that cash implicated someone was when they were caught with it in their possession.

Seriously...you must be around my age. But I have a dad who was a huge fan of mystery type stuff (of the real world variety not of the Scooby snacks types) and could explain it more. We grew up after cash went away, but it really was tracked quite often in the past during specific sting operations. It's okay though...not many people know that nowadays since that's all old stuff.
 

SGA76

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I'm putting in my vote the NSA just added more funding for spying on us by using the back doors they paid companies to put into every piece of software out there.
 

nvgrim

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Did you ever look at like paper money? It's mostly old, crumpled, torn, water damaged, etc. It's also probably been handled by dozens, hundreds, or even thousands of people depending on the age. The majority of bills that are traced are counterfeit bills, which are new enough and different enough that they're easy to spot and subject to forensic analysis.
You brought up another good point. BTC cannot be counterfeited unlike paper money. There is a set finite amount. Whereas if i knew the right people i could be printing my own money all day with fiat money.
 

opfreak

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busywork_thumb.jpg


this is what bitcoin mining is. you dig a hole at the bottom is coin. turn around dig another hole find another coin.

when you too fast they make you dig dipper.

at the end of the day you get a 'code' that is worth whatever some other sucker is willing to pay you for it.

that code is back up by no one.
 

ghost6303

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Has anyone ever actually believed that? :rolleyes:

bitcoin itself, is (reasonably)...

mt gox or other online wallets never made any such claim. infact most online wallets explicitly tell you its not the most secure btc storage method.


that sentence in the article is very misleading.
 

Stiletto

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Seriously...you must be around my age. But I have a dad who was a huge fan of mystery type stuff (of the real world variety not of the Scooby snacks types) and could explain it more. We grew up after cash went away, but it really was tracked quite often in the past during specific sting operations. It's okay though...not many people know that nowadays since that's all old stuff.

I'm more failing to see the point you're trying to make. Sure, when the money supply was a fraction of what it was now, and it didn't change hands as often, it was easier to get fingerprints off a bill. I'm not disputing that. What I am disputing is that with the average state of American paper money you could expect to successfully lift any significant print. This isn't the 1970s anymore. While I always try to carry cash on me I rarely use it except to buy my drugs and guns and kiddy praw-op, you almost had me there!

Cash now represents very little of the money supply. It's mostly tracked through banks and financial institutions now. The vast majority of the money supply isn't even printed on paper anymore. It only exists as digits in electronic ledgers. Let's also not forget that the US dollar is no longer backed by anything. Not gold, not silver, not anything. You take a dollar bill to the bank and ask for the equivalent in precious metal, they'll take a picture of you with their IPhone for when they're talking to the police later.

So...we have money that is no longer actually tangible, with no backing of any sort(unless you want to count FDIC, which is limited, and if a major bank shock happened, it'd be bankrupt in less time than it takes me to type the period at the end of this sentence). With that in mind, are cryptocurrencies really that ridiculous of a concept to you? At the very least, the systems as designed have finite money supplies, impervious to the kind of "quantitative easings" the Fed loves so much to issue, ultimately driving down the value of a dollar with the stroke of a pen. Haha, stroke of a pen. I'm so quaint. I mean the click of a mouse.

And this is one more reason why when people say that Bitcoin should be regulated, I cringe. By whom? Well, I assume the first intended body would be the United States government. The same ones who control the Fed. The same ones spending a trillion more a year than they take in. You know, the ones tapping every electronic device we own...the ones manipulating internet conversations and websites to discredit its enemies...the ones who love saying that anyone who doesn't support all this bullshit is a terrorist.

Wait...you trust those guys to regulate a new private project? Your trust comes pretty easy, dunnit? The whole reason competing currencies are coming into existence is because the same people you trust to regulate currency are the people currently diminishing confidence in its own. That's not a great track record, and I really don't want the US eventually "adopting" Bitcoin(and if they get their hands on it, they will).

Do you really trust the US government that much? You really think they should be watching every transaction we make?

If so, frankly, I think you're out of your mind. I mean, so am I, but that's REALLY fucking crazy.
 

wirerogue

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bitcoins,

my brother thinks i'm decrypting data for the NSA.

my dad thinks i get paid to play video games.

the truth, lies somewhere in between....
 

CreepyUncleGoogle

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I'm more failing to see the point you're trying to make. Sure, when the money supply was a fraction of what it was now, and it didn't change hands as often, it was easier to get fingerprints off a bill. I'm not disputing that. What I am disputing is that with the average state of American paper money you could expect to successfully lift any significant print. This isn't the 1970s anymore. While I always try to carry cash on me I rarely use it except to buy my drugs and guns and kiddy praw-op, you almost had me there!

Cash now represents very little of the money supply. It's mostly tracked through banks and financial institutions now. The vast majority of the money supply isn't even printed on paper anymore. It only exists as digits in electronic ledgers. Let's also not forget that the US dollar is no longer backed by anything. Not gold, not silver, not anything. You take a dollar bill to the bank and ask for the equivalent in precious metal, they'll take a picture of you with their IPhone for when they're talking to the police later.

So...we have money that is no longer actually tangible, with no backing of any sort(unless you want to count FDIC, which is limited, and if a major bank shock happened, it'd be bankrupt in less time than it takes me to type the period at the end of this sentence). With that in mind, are cryptocurrencies really that ridiculous of a concept to you? At the very least, the systems as designed have finite money supplies, impervious to the kind of "quantitative easings" the Fed loves so much to issue, ultimately driving down the value of a dollar with the stroke of a pen. Haha, stroke of a pen. I'm so quaint. I mean the click of a mouse.

And this is one more reason why when people say that Bitcoin should be regulated, I cringe. By whom? Well, I assume the first intended body would be the United States government. The same ones who control the Fed. The same ones spending a trillion more a year than they take in. You know, the ones tapping every electronic device we own...the ones manipulating internet conversations and websites to discredit its enemies...the ones who love saying that anyone who doesn't support all this bullshit is a terrorist.

Wait...you trust those guys to regulate a new private project? Your trust comes pretty easy, dunnit? The whole reason competing currencies are coming into existence is because the same people you trust to regulate currency are the people currently diminishing confidence in its own. That's not a great track record, and I really don't want the US eventually "adopting" Bitcoin(and if they get their hands on it, they will).

Do you really trust the US government that much? You really think they should be watching every transaction we make?

If so, frankly, I think you're out of your mind. I mean, so am I, but that's REALLY fucking crazy.

I thought we were talking about cash. I was just saying that it's very doable to trace it and that police and other law enforcement types have been doing that for a while now. It's nothing new, but bitcoins are supposed to be souper seekrit moolahs that aren't linked to a name and that just screams no consequences and buying stuff you shouldn't be allowed to own legally.

Honestly, I don't care if the govt is monitoring everything. That's fine, whatever, keep up the good work. And I don't care that they're in debt either. I'd love for them to fix the debt thing, but that'll get worked out eventually sooner or later. Any anyhow, I trust the US government pretty much completely and I think they _should_ see every transaction a person makes so they can keep track of all the junk that would demonstrate a trend in a person about to do something awful so they can arrest them before it happens or at least watch them a lot more closely. I want texting and driving people to not be allowed to drive at all and people who buy a gun to get arrested before they shoot someone or something.

Bitcoins need to be regulated and they will be sooner or later. That's pretty much impossible to stop if they stick around. I think it'd be better if an international agency had control of them though. Everyone could get an international identification number and that could be liked to their e-money wallet so there right authorities could know right away what happened or at least be able to research it. As a crime fighting tool, bitcoins could be the best thing ever except right now, they're designed to let people buy gross stuff.
 

UncleDavid218

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I just started mining a few weeks ago. So far I've converted my BTC earning into buying 2 EVGA GTX 750 Ti video cards on TigerDirect (100% BTC transactions), and am pulling in about $35 a day doing so. At this rate, including electricity, I'll have paid for my hardware in about 3 months assuming returns stay roughly the same, which they should. Also, with Gox getting behind us prices are slowly increasing which makes my ROI quicker. At the end of the day, I still have hardware that's worth quite a bit, even factoring in the increased prices due to mining.

I'm having fun doing this. Mining bitcoin and subsequently trading it teaches one a lot about markets in general and lets the hardware enthusiast have a fun time in the process. If you're into trading the altcoins, it's very similar to buying and selling on the NYSE. It doesn't feel like work but at the end of the day there's time and effort involved - that satisfies the definition of work in my opinion. It's not much different than a server admin babysitting servers. And to say you just build the computer, start the program and forget it shows that one hasn't the slightest clue on how it all works. Mining requires daily research in order to stay on top of the game.

A lot of people argue that bitcoin has no intrinsic value and they'd be correct - but neither does USD. A lot of people argue that bitcoin is sometimes used for nefarious purposes and they'd be correct - but so is USD.

Once bitcoin acceptance is more widespread (give it a break - it hasn't been around for very long) I can see large benefits for under developed countries. There's the possibility for increased access to global goods without the huge fees imposed by various money services (PayPal, Western Union, etc.). You can't tell me THAT wouldn't have value. I hear all of the time on MPR that Somali immigrants (we have a large population in Minnesota so it's talked about frequently) cannot get money to their relatives back home because all of the banks either charge too much or won't even send the money because of suspected terrorist funding which has proved to be a minuscule fraction of transactions. Since BTC can be split up in almost infinite ways, it is viable in under developed countries even at the current value.
 

/usr/sbin

Successfully Trolled by Megalith
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I think people treat bitcoins more like a stock than using them as cash transactions. Therein lies another problem because people will hoard them hoping the price goes up rather than down while not putting them into circulation. The good thing about a dollar today is we know it will be worth a dollar next week so we tend not to hold onto those dollars and using them to stabilize the economy, or not.

That's one thing I agree with you on. Bitcoins behave more like a limited supply commodity than a currency. Since there is an absolute maximum, spending them today means that you miss out on potential gains tomorrow. IE. Lost future opportunity cost.

For this reason I feel that bitcoin fails as a currency.
 

Ashton

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People stop when they cant make fast money?

I just started mining when this story broke, I'm using a CPU/GPU combo (and will be setting up my laptop to also mine when idle) By my calculations, I'll find a block of coins in around 18 months...

Haven't stopped yet though, still plugging along.
 

Brackle

Old Timer
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The thing that gets me. in 2011 when I mined BTC when they were around $25-30 MTGOX had an issue and got hacked or something and people lost coins.

In early 2013 they had problems again with coins.

I feel no pity to the people who lost millions because they should of stayed away from this company. They had signals in 2011. Sucks they lost the money, but they should of known better.

I mean how can you take a major exchange serious if its name after a card game (Magic).

Just my 0.02c
 

-PK-

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You brought up another good point. BTC cannot be counterfeited unlike paper money. There is a set finite amount. Whereas if i knew the right people i could be printing my own money all day with fiat money.

Except for maybe the creator of the algorithm. He might be able to print his own money or could've mined the first million units incredibly easy, before releasing it to the public and upping the difficulty.
 

WorldExclusive

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bitcoins,

my brother thinks i'm decrypting data for the NSA.

my dad thinks i get paid to play video games.

the truth, lies somewhere in between....

Nothing is a conspiracy until you see it in the news right? People must see it before they believe it.
 

atp1916

[H]ard|DCoTM x1
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People stop when they cant make fast money?

I just started mining when this story broke, I'm using a CPU/GPU combo (and will be setting up my laptop to also mine when idle) By my calculations, I'll find a block of coins in around 18 months...

Haven't stopped yet though, still plugging along.

I hope you're using a multipool that pays you for even when you don't find a block.

I recommend wafflepool or clevermining.
 

Stiletto

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I'd love for them to fix the debt thing, but that'll get worked out eventually sooner or later.

Any anyhow, I trust the US government pretty much completely

...and people who buy a gun to get arrested before they shoot someone or something.

There is little worthwhile response for what you've said. I'll just let the statements stand on their own.
 

CreepyUncleGoogle

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There is little worthwhile response for what you've said. I'll just let the statements stand on their own.

Thanks! I'm glad you and I can kinda sort out things. I think you're one of the first people that's actually willingly changed his perspective after talking with me. It's really a good thing to actually see that happen for once since that's completely unpossible on the internet usually.
 

Stiletto

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Thanks! I'm glad you and I can kinda sort out things. I think you're one of the first people that's actually willingly changed his perspective after talking with me. It's really a good thing to actually see that happen for once since that's completely unpossible on the internet usually.

Oh, don't mistake me. My perspective is rock solid. I just wouldn't have anything good or productive to say about your comments, which I find to be quite worrying, but ultimately not entirely surprising in today's culture. I guess the good thing is not taking it to the usual extremes of "FAHK YOO DOWN WIDA US GUBMINT!" and "FAHK YOO TERRIST MURICA FUK YAH!"
 

Uvaman

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Bitcoins MIRACLES:

Miracle #1:
Converts people into tree huggers: by arguing they care about 'wasted' electricity while typing a simple post in their ridiculously powered-rigs and multiple screens, while their media server is on 24hours a day.

Miracle #2:
Makes some truly believe any currency has intrinsic value let alone paper currency.
If anything you exchange had intrinsic value and the exchange was based on that value, you would be bartering.

Miracle #3:
400million dollars loss in a currently highly volatile new currency, is a lot of money and its shocking!.
There is one trillion dollars of funny money in the 'derivatives' market.
Bernie Madoff swindled 18-65 billion dollars.
Enron 72Billion., Lehman, Housing bubble, MBS, CDOs on and on.

Miracle #4
Makes some people believe that the world of high finance is tightly regulated.
See miracle #3.
I hereby declare, BitCoin is not a currency but a saint.
Bitcoin needs to be canonized.
 

Json23

[H]ard|Gawd
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1,380
I just laugh at all those who actually believe Bitcoin and other non regulated cryptoconcurrency were a good idea...

Never understood how a currency you could "mine" (gaining money without really doing anything for it) could work... You get richer without doing anything (work, trade against another value, etc)... How can a system really work like this?

It is funny because the current money most people use now is generated by simply moving a decimal point by whatever central bank your country has such as the Federal Reserve in the United States. And theft can happen the same way with our "regulated" currency so saying that is an inherent flaw in crypto-currency is like the pot calling the kettle black.

The real difference between the Federal Reserve Note (the U.S. Dollar) and a bitcoin is that bitcoins are going up in value and the market is deciding the value and the USD is going down in value while the "regulated" USD is being printed by the billions by quantitative easing and the value is being deflated on purpose. (Q.E.=inflation)

I'm not saying bitcoin is perfect. But to act like it is the worst thing ever and could never work is stretch and shows a real lack of understanding of how the Western (and some Eastern!!!) monetary systems work.
 
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