Which VR solution to get, any reason to get a vive?

Discussion in 'VR & Head-Mounted Displays' started by Ragenrok, Jul 5, 2017.

  1. Ragenrok

    Ragenrok 2[H]4U

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    Im hoping to leap into VR within the next 3-4 months once I have the cash saved up but I'm torn as to what I want to get. I mainly want to be able to either play sitting or standing but room scale would be awesome, and now that VR is starting to get some actual games like fallout 4 it feels like I can get some real enjoyment out of it. I was leaning toward to vive because of this but now that the rift touch is out and it seems to work well I'm kinda stumped again. Right now it seems like there isn't much point to get a vive over a rift but I want to know if there is something I'm missing, ill list the points I have seemed to find.

    - Rift seems to be compatible with all vive games using the touch thanks to steam making their software/environment very open
    - Rift is cheaper by a large margin, in Canada its $800 for the rift+touch combo but $1200 for the vive
    - Rift seems to support more games that just let you chill on the couch and play. Last I heard games like minecraft were rift only unless you used revive to force the vive to be compatible (I could be wrong on this lol)

    Up till now I always believed the vive was the better choice due to the room scale hardware, but after doing some research I cant seem to find a good reason to justify paying $400 more for it now that the Rift has their touch system out. Hoping you guys can help me with the pro's and cons of each system. While I'd rather support the Vive due to their policies on making their platform open thats a large price tag difference when I know I will be supporting them anyways with software purchases from steam.

    And just for reference I have a play area of up to 12ft x 10ft for room scale and full light control.
     
  2. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    I think you'd have a better experience with room scale in an area that large with the Vive. With the touch controllers and pricing the Rift is much more attractive I think than it was last year. And there are still Rift exclusives tough Revive helps with that. Many consider the optics better with the Rift, but the tracking control still seems to be better with the Vive. And the default comfort of the Rift is better though the Vive Deluxe Audio Strap solves that problem for an additional $100 and it's not readily available at this time.

    I think for that size of a space though the Vive is the way to go. It's just easier to cover that size of space with the Vive.
     
  3. Charlie_D

    Charlie_D Limp Gawd

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    Current state, I would say the Rift is your best choice.

    Please note, I am *not* impartial; I own a rift myself, with the touch controllers and a 3 camera setup. I had originally thought roomscale wasn't a really big deal, but I have to admit that it's a lot of fun. I still enjoy the sit down games (Elite Dangerous and Star Trek Bridge Crew are awesome with a sim chair setup), but there's a lot to be said about having room to move, too.

    Next Gen, if you can wait that long... so far, I'd say the next version of the Vive might be the way to go, or some other player. Their new controller looks to improve on the touch in several ways, and since we don't know what the new headsets will look like yet... maybe a new player will pop up?

    Regardless, buy your games through Steam. :p
     
  4. Supercharged_Z06

    Supercharged_Z06 [H]ard|Gawd

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    I own both. If I had to go with just one setup, I'd go with the Rift. (With Touch and a 3rd sensor though.)

    Yes, I consider the Vive's room scale tech a bit better as to implementation, but a 3 sensor Rift setup matches it as long as the room/play area isn't much bigger than 12'x12'.

    The Touch controllers are also better than the Vive's wands.

    Overall, the two are pretty close though and you can't really go wrong with either setup. I recently acquired Vive's deluxe audio strap, which fixed my biggest complaint with the Vive - crappy headstrap and no built in audio.
     
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  5. Ragenrok

    Ragenrok 2[H]4U

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    Thanks for the responses guys! Ill keep saving up and hopefully by sept. I can jump on choice, maybe if they do announce something new I will wait till next year but as it stands I think i will grab the rift. While I would enjoy the larger room scale of the Vive the rift just seems the better value, way I see it as going with the Rift instead of the vive atm pays for a new gpu on its own lol
     
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  6. reaper12

    reaper12 [H]ard|Gawd

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    I have the Rift and my play area is roughly the same as yours. (11ft x 11ft) Currently running a 3 sensor setup and I don't have any problems with roomscale. You could get a fourth sensor to make sure and still have money left over.

    Saying that, the Vive is great too. It's just the cost, you have to pay extra for the headband, then more again for the knuckle controllers if you want to get them when they are released.

    You can't really go wrong with either headset to be honest :)
     
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  7. TheSmJ

    TheSmJ 2[H]4U

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    I also have my Rift roomscale in an 11'x11' space with 3 sensors. Works great. If you want larger than ~12'x12' you only need to add another sensor for a total of 4.

    The Vive used to be the "better" HMD until Touch was released (Oculus' hand controllers), but now they're even in every way aside from price. A full Oculus Rift kit (HMD + Touch controllers) and an extra sensor costs $660. To get a similar setup on the Vive, you would need to buy the base Vive kit ($800), and the new Deluxe audio strap ($100).

    Furthermore, Oculus' Touch controllers are considered by most everyone to be far more ergonomic in comparison to the Vive wands. Valve has been teasing "Knuckles" controllers to be released "soon", but it remains to be seen how much they will cost, or when they will be released.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2017
  8. Decibel

    Decibel 2[H]4U

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    My brother. This, this is the exact question I was looking to ask this morning...

    If I've researched correctly, to play Rift games on Vive there is ReVive, and to play SteamVR games on Rift, well they just work.

    For those of you running a Vive setup - how well, in July of 2017, is it working out for you to run Oculus games? For those of you with a Rift room scale setup, just how seamless are SteamVR games?

    Vive - $750, today
    Rift - $500 to start, +$100 add touch and +$60 third camera... so $660 if you jump in all at once

    Other than large play spaces, why not go with the Vive? (I mean, fuck Facebook, and fuck Palmer Luckey and his bullshit politics, but OTHER than that...)

    EDIT: Dammit, typing too fast while "working." I meant why not go with the Rift?
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2017
  9. -PK-

    -PK- [H]ard|Gawd

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  10. TheSmJ

    TheSmJ 2[H]4U

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    SteamVR games on the Rift work pretty much like you said - they just work. However I have found Steam's VR support/interface to be very lacking in comparison to Oculus' Home. It's in more of a beta state IMO.

    I bought a Rift because of the better controllers, the exclusive games, and the better ergonomics of the headset itself.

    I don't care about Facebook's involvement one way or the other. You don't even need a FB account to use the Rift, so it's a moot point outside of the fact that Facebook has the $$$ needed to fund high quality games and is currently doing so. Palmer hasn't been with the company since February, and since Facebook purchased the company he wasn't more than a figurehead/mascot anyway.


    As for why not go for the Vive? The extra expense would keep me away. The shoddy head strap and controllers with "grip" buttons most people can't even reach are also a big consideration.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2017
  11. Toriessian

    Toriessian n00bie

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    If possible try both headsets on for about 15 minutes each and then decide based on which one you think you could stand wearing for 2 hours.
    That really really matters.
     
  12. Ragenrok

    Ragenrok 2[H]4U

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    tried that many times but I cant get near either of them. They dont do many display's here in Canada and the few they do setup always have 5-10 people at any given time waiting to play which means I am waiting 2-3 hours just to try it for 15 minutes, the only one ive been able to try is the PSVR and while it was neat for the price I'd rather go with an oculus.
     
  13. Charlie_D

    Charlie_D Limp Gawd

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    I second pretty much all of that. Outside of technical and comfort aspects, most of the arguments amount to 'I bought this one, so that one sucks!'

    Where abouts in Canada are you? If you're in Manitoba, you can come check out my setup :p
     
  14. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    I've not tried a Rift but from all that I've read there's no contest for comfort wise between the two by default, the Rift wins that one but the Vive Deluxe Audio strap puts them on par in that regard, may even an edge to Vive but that's an extra $100.
     
  15. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    Not for me. When I picked up the Vive last November it was on sale and the Rift controllers hadn't yet come out but I'd heard that Rift was a lot more comfortable and had a bit better optics. The Rift has certainly improved with the controllers and it looks like room scale is better as well but the Vive seems to still get the nod in that area, it's still a lot easier to setup.

    My thought on it were I do it today I'd probably still go with the Vive, there seems to be more users and more interest overall in it than the Rift but that's just how I see it.
     
  16. Ragenrok

    Ragenrok 2[H]4U

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    haha I'd love that but I'm about an hour west of Edmonton, AB. Perhaps we can meet in the middle, I hear Sask. is always a nice place to visit :D
     
  17. Ragenrok

    Ragenrok 2[H]4U

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    haha so figured i'd test my current PC to see how badly it would do in VR, turns out AMD has relased some much newer drivers for the R9 290 and wow does it fair alot better now! When Valve first released the VR performance test my 290 just squeaked into "capable" but now it actually gets a good rating saying I could run "high' (which I doubt for most games but worth a try). I might be able to hold off on upgrading the GPU this year and do a full system upgrade next year instead :D Is the steam vr test fairly accurate?

    vrtest.JPG
     
  18. reaper12

    reaper12 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Your graphics card will be fine with the Rift.
     
  19. zamardii12

    zamardii12 [H]ard|Gawd

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    OP, I know it is very tempting right now to want to get into VR but with how old these HMDs are, their short-comings, and with wireless higher resolution screens for HMDs coming out very soon you should wait. I honestly think it would be a complete waste right now to invest in any of the current VR platforms.

    Valve and HTC are constantly teasing their new controller tech as well as their wireless HMD units just like Oculus. Wait for the Gen 2 VR headsets. You've been able to go this long without getting one; what's another couple months anyway if you were looking to buy in the next couple months anyway? I would at least wait until this year wraps up and see what is announced. I would genuinely be surprised if HTC and/or Oculus didn't announce their Gen 2 HMDs this year.

    I am not talking out my ass since I owned a Vive for 6 months before selling it. While it was enjoyable, there are too many shortcomings for me to suggest anyone get it now.

    If you really want to scratch a VR itch right now then get the PSVR if you already have a PS4. If you don't, then like I said just be patient.
     
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  20. TheSmJ

    TheSmJ 2[H]4U

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    There's always going to be something better right around the corner. Oculus has already said the current Rift will not be replaced until 2019 at the earliest, and HTC said they aren't planning on a new version of the Vive anytime soon.
     
  21. zamardii12

    zamardii12 [H]ard|Gawd

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    That sucks. I would still wait. I never felt like I got the full value out of the $800 I spent on the Vive. Whatever, to each their own. I am perfectly happy with my PSVR for now; especially with Ace Combat 7, Doom VFR, Skyrim VR, and Gran Turismo Sport both being fully compatible with PSVR. I also imagine that Bethesda will bring Fallout 4 VR to PSVR too at some point even if they've only talked about it on the Rift so far. Much bigger market if they bring it to PSVR.

    While room-scale is cool; PSVR has better games and better developer support imo.
     
  22. Omegas

    Omegas [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Since this is another Vive vr's Rift thread, this may pertain to the OP interest. That and I don't feel like making another tread...

    I have a Vive and a vr capable laptop (1060/i7) which I use to bring around to let others try out with. The Vive is relatively simple to setup and implement on the fly without much headache (assuming I can find power by two stable relatively high locations for the two base sets). How easy is it to do something similar with the Rift, take-down and re-setup off site?
     
  23. zamardii12

    zamardii12 [H]ard|Gawd

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    I imagine the Rift is infinitely more simple. Simple plug the front-facing sensor into a USB port along with the HMD and you're up and running. No positioning headaches as with the Lighthouses.
     
  24. TheSmJ

    TheSmJ 2[H]4U

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    Not quite. You have to re-calibrate both the Rift and Vive any time you move either of their trackers by even the slightest bit. Other than that, the Rift sensors come with desktop stands, while the Vive's lighthouses do not.
     
  25. Omegas

    Omegas [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Just to make sure we're talking apples to apples, I am referring to room-scale setups of decent size (around 10' x 10')
     
  26. reaper12

    reaper12 [H]ard|Gawd

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    It's easy to setup the Rift. Only takes a few minutes. I move mine between my house and the family home quite a lot, it takes no time to do.
     
  27. Rysen

    Rysen Limp Gawd

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    Anyone waiting for LG's headset?
     
  28. kdh

    kdh Gawd

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    I have a vive, never messed with a rift so I can't say which is better. But i've been very happy with my experience with the vive and my nvidia 1080. The setup was and is easy. I like the steam integration.

    I feel like VR is still very wild wild west and no common API. Meaning, some stuff only works on vive and some only on rift. I haven't been all that broken up about playing rift exclusive titles. Mainly because most VR games are basically glorified demos anyway. I'm very happy with my purchase, but I would wait for Gen2 of either the vive or rift to come out. While this gen is great.. The resolution isnt there and the screen door effect is still prominent. Once the higher resolution head sets come out with a higher DPI, for the same price, then it'll be a game changer. I know this is kinda an unpopular stance, but I would wait.
     
  29. dr.stevil

    dr.stevil [H]ardForum Junkie

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    My suggestion is the Vive, mainly because I detest facebook and have no desire to use their products.

    With that said, it seems like the Rift is a more elegant solution, and the inclusion of the touch controllers (not to mention the strap) is pretty damn nice. On the other hand, the Vive will do full roomscale OOTB and has a touch controller in the works. You can also upgrade the strap on the Vive with a better one.

    At the end of the day, it's up to you.
     
  30. Omegas

    Omegas [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Since waiting is your game plan anyway, I'd just keep an eye on things. HTC may include the new strap and controllers by Christmas and Rift may also have some updates, so all this may be a moot point.
     
  31. NamelessPFG

    NamelessPFG Limp Gawd

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    Well, the Rift + Touch is now a mere $400 for this summer sale they just started, and even factoring in the price of two sensor cameras for room-scale (and possibly USB 3.0 extension cables, an FL1100-based USB 3.0 host card and camera wall mounts), that's still a hell of a lot cheaper than the Vive. HTC better reconsider their stance on Vive price drops soon if they want to stay competitive, and throw in that deluxe audio strap and new controllers while they're at it.

    I personally went with the Rift early on because I found the Touch controllers better-designed (analog sticks over trackpads are already a major improvement if you don't get sick from conventional movement/locomotion in VR, and the grip triggers are very usable) and it was considered unquestionably superior for Elite: Dangerous, DCS and other cockpit sims due to Asynchronous Timewarp (gotta disable Asynchronous Spacewarp via Oculus Tray Tool now, sadly) and the lenses' greater sweet spot of focus. The deluxe audio strap also wasn't a thing for the Vive at the time, either.

    However, I didn't expect Touch controller tracking to be such a crapfest for the first three months. It's been more or less fine since 1.12 hit, but if you move the controllers too quickly, like throwing a punch fast, there's a very noticeable breakup in the tracking, down to seeing zigzag lines in Quill and possibly not being able to get a good jump in Climbey or a forceful punch in Thrill of the Fight! I chalk that up to the sensor cameras only refreshing at 60 Hz, not even the 90 Hz of the HMD itself.

    The Vive and LG's upcoming SteamVR-based set could have a real advantage as soon as those "Knuckles" controllers hit the market, distaste for trackpads aside. There's also the possiblity to make a more Touch-like attachment for the Vive Tracker and get better controllers that way, since it has all the standard inputs of a Vive wand from what I understand - three buttons (menu, app, grip), two axes and a click-down for the trackpad/stick, and one analog trigger with GameCube-style button click at the end.

    Also, having to run USB extension cables to the host computer really clutters up the room. I'd suggest buying extensions with a bit more length than you actually need, just to facilitate a cleaner cable run. Lighthouse base stations admittedly still require AC power outlets, but it cuts down considerably on the USB cable spaghetti behind one's computer since the Vive only needs one.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2017
  32. TheSmJ

    TheSmJ 2[H]4U

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    Has it been a while since you've used Touch? These tracking issues were fixed months ago. Oculus Home is now version 1.15.
     
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  33. Ragenrok

    Ragenrok 2[H]4U

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    well amazon and oculus just made this a whole lot easier for me. They have dropped the price for the Rift+Touch bundle from $800 to $550 (CAD) for the next 6 weeks lol, its actually cheaper to buy the bundle then to get the rift without a touch :p
     
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  34. Charlie_D

    Charlie_D Limp Gawd

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    Yup, They've got a really good deal on right now :)
     
  35. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    May have get in on this. I've been thinking about setting up a VR rig downstairs. I've got an x58 i7-980x laying around and a couple of GTX 1080s. I wonder if I'll have a problem with USB bandwidth on such an old setup though. I've tested the Vive on this and it worked great. It's a pretty big space so I think I'll need 3 cameras. So the way that works is two cameras connected via USB 3 and the 3nd via USB 2 correct? TIA!
     
  36. reaper12

    reaper12 [H]ard|Gawd

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    It's actually on 1.16 now :) and I was just about to ask the same question!! I have no problem with fast movements on the Rift.
     
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  37. reaper12

    reaper12 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yes, two into USB 3 and 1 into USB 2 should be fine. It really depends on how good the USB 3 ports are on the motherboard. Since 1.12 USB requirements have dropped a lot, so chances are your motherboard will work fine. If it doesn't, just get a cheap Inateck USB 3 add on card.
     
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  38. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    The rig has a PCIe USB 3 expansion port with two ports so I should be good there. I just realized, do any cameras come with this bundle?
     
  39. Ragenrok

    Ragenrok 2[H]4U

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    I believe the rift+touch bundle comes with 2 cameras which is good for standing VR games. If you want proper room-scale you will need to purchase the 3rd, after alot of reading this morning the cameras work differently depending on which port you're using as well.

    If its plugged into a USB3 port you get raw uncompressed tracking, if its in a USB2 port it gets compressed to save bandwidth which can affect tracking (but people say it doesn't seem to really do much to it). So far the accepted setup is the front cameras should be USB3 and the rear can be USB2, apperently when you buy the standalone camera they bundle a USB2 extension cable with it so USB2 is perfectly fine for the 3rd one
     
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  40. reaper12

    reaper12 [H]ard|Gawd

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    You should be good to go!! Yes, you get two sensors with the bundle. 1 with the Rift and 1 with the touch controllers. You will need to buy a third sensor.

    EDIT: If your area is very large, you might need a fourth sensor. But try out three first and see how you get on. If you do decide you need a fourth sensor, but another set of touch controllers :) You will get a sensor with them and you will be ready for mixed reality as well.
     
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