Which 4K TV is best overall?

I have yet to even try any HDR content besides streaming the first 5 minutes of Marco Polo just to check it out. It was OK but I agree it is mostly marketing at this point and not ready for prime time. Heck even finding a 4K movie or TV show to stream is kind of a pain in the ass.
 
Yeah I know. I think that's what RidingTheFLow is trying to say but am not sure? XD
I think its 50% chance of trolling, and 50% chance of BS marketing counting on the fact that majority of buyers have no idea what chances of "LCD burn-in" are and just thinking "oooh, 10 years warranty - must be good!" ;)
 
Burn-in is a non issue except in the mind of paranoid videophiles...bullshit Marketing or not.
 
Burn-in is a non issue except in the mind of paranoid videophiles...bullshit Marketing or not.

I dunno man. I've got a thinkpad x230 IPS screen that shows otherwise. Thing does suffer from image retention and I have to shut it off for a couple hours at a time to get rid of it. I was perplexed at first but found out other owners were having similar problems.

Burn in even happens on regular LCDs.
 
I dunno man. I've got a thinkpad x230 IPS screen that shows otherwise. Thing does suffer from image retention and I have to shut it off for a couple hours at a time to get rid of it. I was perplexed at first but found out other owners were having similar problems.

Burn in even happens on regular LCDs.
Its not a burn in, its simply image retention on poorly made LCD with "pixel fatigue". Since you can get rid of it by shutting display off and let pixels to "relax" - its not permanent.

Burn in on the other hand is *permanent* and happens only on tech where bright pixels literally "burn" by absorbing a lot of energy to emit light - so bright pixels wear down first and become not as bright as rest. For example, CRT, Plasma, OLED. Regardless on how long you will switch burned screen off - this will not restore the degradation.

Technically LCD pixels wear down slightly too - but actual individual LCD pixels don't use much energy, because they are just "shutters". Majority of power (which produces light) on LCDs goes into backlight LED - and this *does* wear down significantly, but because all LEDs in backlight lit with same brightness, they just all become dimmer, and generally its not noticeable (unless you compare with brand new screen and see that old one is dimmer).
 
No burn-in? Tell that to my parents' ln40a550. The left and right sides are burnt in from displaying 4:3 content, and the top is burnt in from displaying letterboxed 16:9 content from SD channels before they were available digitally.

Yes, it's permanent. I suspect it is poor ventilation and heat that damaged some crystals and caused them to lose their ability to rotate. So it does happen. I imagine it's particularly rare, but I'd keep an eye out and avoid anything with temporary retention, because that might eventually stop going away.
 
Maybe there's a chance for TVs supporting VESA Adaptive Sync standard next year:

Are FreeSync TVs On The Way?

When asked if the company was doing anything specific to get TV manufacturers interested in launching FreeSync-enabled TVs, Sr. Vice President and Chief Architect Raja Koduri gave a mixed-bag reaction that essentially confirms the existence and development of FreeSync TVs:

“We are definitely working with the entire display community on getting FreeSync to more places,” said Koduri, who seemed to hesitate before continuing. “I think this is something we should follow up...on what we can share at this point on FreeSync TVs.”

Would also benefit the consoles (which are all using AMD GPUs). Should be easy for MS and Sony to add in support, at least on the upcoming stronger iterations of their boxes, and maybe even the current ones.
 
No burn-in? Tell that to my parents' ln40a550. The left and right sides are burnt in from displaying 4:3 content, and the top is burnt in from displaying letterboxed 16:9 content from SD channels before they were available digitally.

Yes, it's permanent. I suspect it is poor ventilation and heat that damaged some crystals and caused them to lose their ability to rotate. So it does happen. I imagine it's particularly rare, but I'd keep an eye out and avoid anything with temporary retention, because that might eventually stop going away.

Yes, please post proof of a TV that was released in 2008. That will show me...
 
Yeah, it's older. I suspect PVA panels at that point were more likely to get permanent retention.

I'm pretty sure it's less likely now, but it was also rare then. I just wanted to say it does happen. A properly designed LCD shouldn't exhibit any persistence at all, temporary or otherwise.
 
Burn-in is a non issue except in the mind of paranoid videophiles...bullshit Marketing or not.

Yeah, hopefully this stuff is no longer an issue. The first model SEGA Lindbergh cabinets in Japan had poorer ventilation, so the first models unfortunately had a lot of burn-in. They created better ventilation for newer models but the setup changed a little, no longer being as stylish as before.
 
Hey Flexion, just got a text yesterday from the shop staff saying they have the 75" ZD9 model available too now so I will go there a little earlier than arranged and compare the 60" to the 75". If the latter, bigger screen proves to have no banding issues, even though I know the likelihood his higher the bigger the screen, I might actually go ahead and purchase the 75". Crossing my fingers :)

I'm bringing the PS4 to the shop and testing for banding or dirty screen effect with a game called "Gone Home - console edition". Pretty decent tool!
 
Hey Flexion, just got a text yesterday from the shop staff saying they have the 75" ZD9 model available too now so I will go there a little earlier than arranged and compare the 60" to the 75". If the latter, bigger screen proves to have no banding issues, even though I know the likelihood his higher the bigger the screen, I might actually go ahead and purchase the 75". Crossing my fingers :)

I'm bringing the PS4 to the shop and testing for banding or dirty screen effect with a game called "Gone Home - console edition". Pretty decent tool!

I'm so jelly man... (to be able to even get a Z9D would be nice.) Well, if you're enjoying the picture quality that much, then yeah man... get the 75" for sure!
 
True up to a certain point and also it depends on what's prioritized as all of these have their inherent flaws and isn't perfect.

Currently the Sony Z9D is giving OLED's infinite blacks a run for their money, while achieving higher overall and peak brightness. The Z9D can be classified as an FALD LCD.

I personally wouldn't go OLED because of image retention/burn in issues. They've made much progress, but the problems still exist. So while OLED produces superior image quality in most cases they're more fragile than other panel tech.

When it comes to LCDs, the different panels are also better for certain applications. For places like airports, etc. a wide viewing angle is important, and resistance to image burn in/retention are also important, so IPS screens which a generally frowned upon in the HDTV business is actually the best.

Z9D 630 zones versus OLED's 8.4 Million. No LCD will ever be comparable to an emissive display. The IR/Burn in "issue" is way over-blown. I haven't heard of a single 2016 LG OLED getting permanent burn-in. Any IR, by it's nature is light and temporary. I've been using a 2016 LG OLED as a PC monitor for many months, desktop and gaming for hours on end with zero issues.


Even with 18 rows of zones, there are some scenes where light spills over into the black bars on top and bottom as well as some scenes that Sony Z9D is simply incapable of reproducing acceptably such as a starry night sky. In a scene like this the LCD will have to choose between having visible halos around/between star clusters or having relatively dim stars to maintain faithful blacks. This is not limited to HDR content per se as the screen will also try to control the zones in such a manner that SDR picture content reaches deep blacks but the result is often that areas that were not supposed to be dimmed or highlighted, are.

Z9D is without doubt one of the best LCD TVs for HDR reproduction that we have seen to date, but it does not beat HDR reproduction on the 2016 OLEDs that manage to reach visibly deeper black levels and at the same time maintain a higher dynamic range throughout a movie. One of the areas where we noticed particularly visible halos on Z9D was around subtitles, especially when the subtitles are pure white like on Netflix.

Read more at Sony Z9D (ZD9) review - FlatpanelsHD

Transmissive displays such as LCD will always be a second rate, crap technology.

Yea, I just saw they put up 4k native results for lag!! The sony is running 4:4:4 at 4k at 35ms, not bad at all as long as I turn vsync off.

The interesting thing with these new 4k results is running any samsung at 4k with 4:4:4 shows higher lag then the sony, about 38ms is what they are showing for the samsung and the samsungs have pwm too which I hate.

Also the pixel response is twice as fast on the sony versus any of the 2016 samsungs which is good for gaming.

Rtings is killing it with all this great info, easily the best site for in-depth tv reviews, by far!!

Looks like the 43x800d is going to be my 4k pc monitor ....

If you want the best PC gaming LCD TV, it's still the 2015 JU7500 series. Good 4:4:4 4K input lag numbers and the fastest VA LCD pixels tested by Rtings.com at 8.9ms (you never want an IPS panel TV which is reserved for the cheapest of TV's). You can also get it in curved 40" which is about the sweet spot for an immersive 4K gaming experience. The curve also minimizes the VA crush on the edges. Just be advised that if you do go with the 800D which seems decent, even at 43" and 3 foot monitor distance, you WILL see the edges shift/crush on a flat VA display.

Samsung JU7500 Review (UN40JU7500, UN48JU7500, UN50JU7500, UN55JU7500, UN65JU7500, UN78JU7500)

Best TVs For PC Monitors - Summer 2016: Reviews
 
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Z9D 630 zones versus OLED's 8.4 Million. No LCD will ever be comparable to an emissive display. The IR/Burn in "issue" is way over-blown. I haven't heard of a single 2016 LG OLED getting permanent burn-in. Any IR, by it's nature is light and temporary. I've been using a 2016 LG OLED as a PC monitor for many months, desktop and gaming for hours on end with zero issues.


Even with 18 rows of zones, there are some scenes where light spills over into the black bars on top and bottom as well as some scenes that Sony Z9D is simply incapable of reproducing acceptably such as a starry night sky. In a scene like this the LCD will have to choose between having visible halos around/between star clusters or having relatively dim stars to maintain faithful blacks. This is not limited to HDR content per se as the screen will also try to control the zones in such a manner that SDR picture content reaches deep blacks but the result is often that areas that were not supposed to be dimmed or highlighted, are.

Z9D is without doubt one of the best LCD TVs for HDR reproduction that we have seen to date, but it does not beat HDR reproduction on the 2016 OLEDs that manage to reach visibly deeper black levels and at the same time maintain a higher dynamic range throughout a movie. One of the areas where we noticed particularly visible halos on Z9D was around subtitles, especially when the subtitles are pure white like on Netflix.

Read more at Sony Z9D (ZD9) review - FlatpanelsHD

Transmissive displays such as LCD will always be a second rate, crap technology.



If you want the best PC gaming LCD TV, it's still the 2015 JU7500 series. Good 4:4:4 4K input lag numbers and the fastest VA LCD pixels tested by Rtings.com at 8.9ms (you never want an IPS panel TV which is reserved for the cheapest of TV's). You can also get it in curved 40" which is about the sweet spot for an immersive 4K gaming experience. The curve also minimizes the VA crush on the edges. Just be advised that if you do go with the 800D which seems decent, even at 43" and 3 foot monitor distance, you WILL see the edges shift/crush on a flat VA display.

Samsung JU7500 Review (UN40JU7500, UN48JU7500, UN50JU7500, UN55JU7500, UN65JU7500, UN78JU7500)

Best TVs For PC Monitors - Summer 2016: Reviews

Well good for you man. It's just not for me and I don't feel it's overblown. The cases I've seen or heard of are enough for ME to not want it. That's all... No big deal lol. Just like how not everyone owns an all electric automobile. It's a matter of preference and choice. I did mention earlier on that yeah... OLED picture quality is unparalleled, BUT it's is a technology that is NOT without issue. However, every technology has some kind of flaw right? Sure you've been using your TV as a monitor for a good amount of time, but a few months isn't enough for me to be convinced that IR/burn in won't happen in 5-8 years. (that's how I long I usually keep my screens for.) But by all means bro... Leave a stationary screen with bright letters and numbers, etc. on for 48 hours. I'm sure you wouldn't be happy to do that to prove me wrong... Meanwhile my crap technology KS8500 is warranted against burn in for 10 years, and I could happily do that for shits and giggles.

Again... I'm not crapping on OLEDs.. They're quite impressive, but not for me. That's life and who cares what someone else likes right? XD

EDIT: Just want to point out that I liked your post, because I fully appreciate/respect what you've written and get you 100%. Also... I AM OLD... Just want to turn on my gear, use it, and then turn it off. I don't want to baby my stuff or have to "watch varied content" after IR occurs, etc. to get rid of it. Don't have time for that. ;)
 
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Leave a stationary screen with bright letters and numbers, etc. on for 48 hours.

People always say stuff like that. Why on Earth would you ever do that, or want to do such a thing? Are you planning on using your display as an airport terminal schedule display? I wouldn't recommend doing that on any display type. Even LCD's can get IR from super bright static images over time.
 
Just had the pleasure of watching nearly a whole movie on the 75inch ZD9 at magnolia. Holy crap that thing rocks!
I'm in the market for a new TV, was looking at the 930D, and the ZD9 literally blows it away. Way over my budget, but God damn was that pretty.
 
The fact that anyone would consider any LCD TV over currently available, currently very cheap OLED TV's in 2016 blows my mind. This whole discussion is so far beyond the scope of reason that I'm honestly unsure whether I'm awake or if I'm dreaming.

Isn't this what we've all been waiting for? Perfectly dark, inky blacks, near immeasurable contrast, along with great color reproduction, in a slim, efficient package?

And now that we have it.. people are considering $7,000 LCDs? What?
 
The fact that anyone would consider any LCD TV over currently available, currently very cheap OLED TV's in 2016 blows my mind. This whole discussion is so far beyond the scope of reason that I'm honestly unsure whether I'm awake or if I'm dreaming.

Isn't this what we've all been waiting for? Perfectly dark, inky blacks, near immeasurable contrast, along with great color reproduction, in a slim, efficient package?

And now that we have it.. people are considering $7,000 LCDs? What?

Haha my sentiments exactly. LCD is crap compared OLED. Hell, LCD was crap compared to Plasma and CRT.
 
The fact that anyone would consider any LCD TV over currently available, currently very cheap OLED TV's in 2016 blows my mind. This whole discussion is so far beyond the scope of reason that I'm honestly unsure whether I'm awake or if I'm dreaming.

Isn't this what we've all been waiting for? Perfectly dark, inky blacks, near immeasurable contrast, along with great color reproduction, in a slim, efficient package?

And now that we have it.. people are considering $7,000 LCDs? What?

The Z9D isn't just another run of the mill LCD panel... it's sporting some pretty cutting edge tech and an OLED is going to be much dimmer. (~500 nits vs 1000+) If I were in the market for a new TV and spending big, I'd at the very least take the time to do a thorough side by side. Yes OLED may be the future, but the tech is relatively new and still evolving, and besides LG, there simply aren't a lot of players out there with product yet. Nothing mind blowing about at least considering the Z9D and doing a comparison.
 
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The fact that anyone would consider any LCD TV over currently available, currently very cheap OLED TV's in 2016 blows my mind. This whole discussion is so far beyond the scope of reason that I'm honestly unsure whether I'm awake or if I'm dreaming.

Isn't this what we've all been waiting for? Perfectly dark, inky blacks, near immeasurable contrast, along with great color reproduction, in a slim, efficient package?

And now that we have it.. people are considering $7,000 LCDs? What?

Only reason to get a ZD9 is if you plan on buying the 75", since reasonably priced OLEDs don't really exist in that size category yet. The 65" is terribly overpriced. It still suffers from blooming like any other LCD and there's no way I'd pay over $5 grand for that.

The whole brightness war is dumb, in my opinion. Current OLEDs get plenty bright - at 500-600 nits that's still more than twice what typical LCDs are doing. Only the high end ones approach 1000 nits. A typical viewing environment for these high end displays is going to be a dim/dark room also. Yeah, if you plan on u sing your TV in a very bright room primarily, then having 1000 nits would help with HDR - but I don't know any videophiles that do serious viewing in a bright room, the dark room performance is way more important.

Anyway, if brightness is really important to you next year's OLEDs will probably hit 1000 nits also. They already showed off an outdoor prototype that hit 1400 nits:
 
Only reason to get a ZD9 is if you plan on buying the 75", since reasonably priced OLEDs don't really exist in that size category yet. The 65" is terribly overpriced. It still suffers from blooming like any other LCD and there's no way I'd pay over $5 grand for that.

The whole brightness war is dumb, in my opinion. Current OLEDs get plenty bright - at 500-600 nits that's still more than twice what typical LCDs are doing. Only the high end ones approach 1000 nits. A typical viewing environment for these high end displays is going to be a dim/dark room also. Yeah, if you plan on u sing your TV in a very bright room primarily, then having 1000 nits would help with HDR - but I don't know any videophiles that do serious viewing in a bright room, the dark room performance is way more important.

Anyway, if brightness is really important to you next year's OLEDs will probably hit 1000 nits also. They already showed off an outdoor prototype that hit 1400 nits:


Didn't we already have this some years ago? I distinctly remember various LED backlit LCD sets with local dimming zones around the time the Kuros were being phased out and Panasonic was phasing in their S/G/V/VT series plasmas. They suffered from serious flashlighting/blooming issues due to a limited amount of dimming zones, which sounds exactly like what you've described. Granted, hundreds of local dimming zones may be more than we had in the past, but it certainly isn't new tech.
 
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