Where Has all the AGP Gone

True is that OEMs latest computers that are out retail wise are PCIe, but
the average joe makes up a huge percentage of pc users and they are not spending the money for these new models they are buying the cheapest that they can find which the majority of them will be AGP based, there still is a market for AGP.

And on that note, I work at a small build/repair shop, and since the retail introduction of PCIe, I have not yet seen a PCIe based OEM computer yet in the shop, and also have not built one based on PCIe, because as I mentioned up above the average joe is looking for the cheapest thing possible.
 
dderidex said:
Last numbers I'd seen had 75% of the market without an AGP slot - not PCI-E, either, just no AGP. Pure integrated graphics, and that's it. Oh, and regular PCI slots. For whatever they are worth.
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Link?
 
Oh yes. I must see this proof as well, because I wonder how they've been sneaking into all the computers I've built over the past few years and taking out my AGP cards!!!

Damned PCI ninjas!
 
dderidex said:
Yeah, but...they HAVEN'T.

*Most* systems sold over the past 5 years are the <$500 'econobox' systems with Intel Extreme Graphics - not even 'Extreme Graphics 2' or anything. No AGP slot! Just solid PCI.

Last numbers I'd seen had 75% of the market without an AGP slot - not PCI-E, either, just no AGP. Pure integrated graphics, and that's it. Oh, and regular PCI slots. For whatever they are worth.
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Where are you seeing these "numbers". THere might be 50% of the business desktop market with Intel graphics and no agp slot because some boss somewhere went for the cheapest system he could and lets face it, nobody's gonna cough up the dough to sneak a 6800GT into the work computer, but desktops bought for the home market where people would actually be interested in upgrading video so there children could play games were most assuredly "upgradeable" with agp graphics.
I haven't opened up a Dell or HP or even Compaq yet for friends who wanted me to perform guru duties for them that didn't have an agp port available and some of these systems are 3-4 years old.
Show me these "numbers".
 
yeah i've but down PCI-E for a long time. i couldn't stand the massive change. it was like everybody forgot about the great times we had with AGP. and in less than a month, over 65% of major retailers video card stock was PCI-E! plus the expense was what raelly made me pist.

then i found a NVIDIA nForce4 SLI on ebay and i won it for 47 dollars.

i may have to ditch some stuff and almost completely change my computer but i think the light at the end of the tunnel is finally showing...
 
animosity said:
Pretty sure AGP went away with the Cowboys...

Viva la PCI-E!
Click to expand...

Is that the Dallas Cowboys?

If PCI-E is French, I damn sure aint gettin into it.
 
dderidex said:
Last numbers I'd seen had 75% of the market without an AGP slot - not PCI-E, either, just no AGP. Pure integrated graphics, and that's it. Oh, and regular PCI slots. For whatever they are worth.
Click to expand...

IF this is true, which it isn't, this means the other 25% of people who can upgrade (the graphics card makers target consumers anyways) do in fact have AGP.
 
My ass is a statistics factory.
24 hours a day 7 days a week.. (even through national holidays) its pumping out miles upon miles of statistics that have no basis in reality. I also got the butt-throttle upgrade.. it can accurately gauge the hp my car has. Looks like its quite the popular machine in here :rolleyes:

As for the topic.

I have a legacy socket A system with a Xp2500 barton and a nice 6800GT running in it. Am I irked that there are no future cards coming out on AGP? Not really.. because anything faster than this card into my system would be a complete waste. I plan on going with a 939 sli supported board in the near future. The reason is easy.. AGP is being phased out and I don't intend on buying into yesterdays tech.

EDIT: But for those who will stay with AGP.. check the for/sale thread in the near future.. you can get a soon to be rare eVGA 6800 GT AGP with a sealed copy of doom3! Wowsers!
 
1) A person who owns a socket A system who doesn't want upgrade to PCIe who wants a 7800 is wasting his/her money because he/she will be extremely bottlenecked. Why they want to do this beyond me. Don't say "because I upgrade incrementally". Guess what things change. You play the incremental game eventually you will get burned. Remember PC133/PC100 etc when DRAM came out. Same complaints.

2) A person who bought a 939 system with AGP who wanted to save their old should have damn well known by that time that PCIe was coming and coming hard. If you didn't then you were wishful thinking. You should have sold your 6800LE/GT/Ultra AGP card and laterally upgraded to PCIe.

3) A person who bought an Intel system or a 754 in the past year with AGP should have known the same damn thing and even more so.

We all we knew that PCIe was coming fast and coming hard. The wave is here. There is NOTHING you can do about it; especially whining here. The industry has decided and PCIe is the way of things.

For the people who keep saying AGP is good enough or they "haven't used AGP to its fullest", that is only partially true. PCIe isn't for graphics only. Its is eventually designed to elminate PCI in the PC and generate a true universal and extensible data bus.

But there are always people who like to halt invotation because they dont' want to change. I call those people OLD.

As for AGP ports in a PC, our company has about 100k computers...and I doubt even 1% of them have AGP ports. Saves a few $$$ not having it. When your companies buys that many computers...a few $$$ is a CEO's bonus check.

-tReP
 
I have a system that I think it pretty damned great still, even in the face of new things. P4 Northwood 3.2GHz, 2GB PC3200 RAM, and a BFG6800OC, running on an Intel D875PBZ I bought back in October of '03. My problem becomes I haven't seen any really compelling upgrades, and do not see anything in the near future that is going to make a huge difference in what I do, which as far as gaming is concerned is 99% WoW.

I actually think I like that there is no 7800 AGP because it means I won't blow 400-500 dollars on an upgrade I don't need :p

-Jeff
 
Goatbert said:
I have a system that I think it pretty damned great still, even in the face of new things. P4 Northwood 3.2GHz, 2GB PC3200 RAM, and a BFG6800OC, running on an Intel D875PBZ I bought back in October of '03.
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I upgraded my processor, motherboard, and RAM recently, but I still bought an AGP board, because I have a 6800 Ultra that I bought when I needed a new card, and PCI-E was still relativly new. When I was wondering around the internet, most places said that AGP could still run just fine because it only started to faulter when you tried loading enormous textures to the card, so I stuck with AGP 'cause I didn't feel it was justified to make a leap to PCI-E.

So now if I want to upgrade, and make it worth my while, I'd probably have to buy a 500-600$ video card and a 100-150$ motherboard, just to make a reason to go to PCI-E, so I think I'll personally be sticking to AGP for a decent amount of time.
 
I'm willing to bet your 100k computers still have PCI slots. (I hope you work for LANL if you yourself have access to all 100k computers. Otherwise how do you know this 'fact?')
 
Keetha said:
Demingo, why do you think that motherboards do not have an AGP slot? That doesn't make sense at all. Maybe these computers do not come with AGP cards, but they mostly do have AGP ports...
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Having had the disfortune of being a CompUSA tech, I can back him up on this. A LOT of OEM system boards (or for us, maybe "boreds" might be more appropriate LOL) DO NOT have an AGP slot. They have integrated AGP video (a chip on the board connected to the pathways of the AGP slot), and a lot of them actually have the markings on the board for an AGP slot without the actual slot soldered to the board. I would dare say that this is true of about 75% of the systems out there for people that are like "Oooooooh!!! A POWER BUTTON!!! OMG!!!! pr0n!!!!" and that's all they use the computer for. I laugh cuz I used to see a lot of HP machines with Asus boards with OEM markings on them and I'd say "Oh, wow, I have this board, but mine has an AGP slot." LOL

When you got into the higher end systems that the CompUSA sales guys would put little stars on them reading "GREAT GAMING SYSTEM!!!", then you got your AGP slot.
 
I'm still waiting for some non anecdotal evidence concerning how many systems out there have no graphics card slots (AGP or otherwise). Until then it's just you and me and everyone else guesstimating based on our own experiences.
 
NoONeTMC said:
I upgraded my processor, motherboard, and RAM recently, but I still bought an AGP board, because I have a 6800 Ultra that I bought when I needed a new card, and PCI-E was still relativly new.
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I just got a new mobo/cpu a week ago, and went with AGP. Even with my next video card upgrade i'll be getting an AGP (probably a x800xt), i just don't see any REAL advantage to PCI-E. Yes, in the future it may provide better performance, but right now it's completely equal to AGP, and in some cases it's even a little slower o_O
 
Trepidati0n said:
1) A person who owns a socket A system who doesn't want upgrade to PCIe who wants a 7800 is wasting his/her money because he/she will be extremely bottlenecked. Why they want to do this beyond me. Don't say "because I upgrade incrementally". Guess what things change. You play the incremental game eventually you will get burned. Remember PC133/PC100 etc when DRAM came out. Same complaints.

2) A person who bought a 939 system with AGP who wanted to save their old should have damn well known by that time that PCIe was coming and coming hard. If you didn't then you were wishful thinking. You should have sold your 6800LE/GT/Ultra AGP card and laterally upgraded to PCIe.

3) A person who bought an Intel system or a 754 in the past year with AGP should have known the same damn thing and even more so.

We all we knew that PCIe was coming fast and coming hard. The wave is here. There is NOTHING you can do about it; especially whining here. The industry has decided and PCIe is the way of things.

For the people who keep saying AGP is good enough or they "haven't used AGP to its fullest", that is only partially true. PCIe isn't for graphics only. Its is eventually designed to elminate PCI in the PC and generate a true universal and extensible data bus.

But there are always people who like to halt invotation because they dont' want to change. I call those people OLD.

As for AGP ports in a PC, our company has about 100k computers...and I doubt even 1% of them have AGP ports. Saves a few $$$ not having it. When your companies buys that many computers...a few $$$ is a CEO's bonus check.

-tReP
Click to expand...

QFT :)...the type of thing I wanted to say without typing it all out ;).
 
Apallohadas said:
I'm willing to bet your 100k computers still have PCI slots. (I hope you work for LANL if you yourself have access to all 100k computers. Otherwise how do you know this 'fact?')
Click to expand...

Yes they do and its two on a riser. When our company upgrades, it gets done all at once except for CAD stations and servers. Its a big deal. This is the only way to make sure that the software you are fielding will work on ALL machines. It also gives you minimal platforms you need to test on.

For the most part in business, most PC's don't even need PCI slots. If our bosses could get rid of them, they would....bye bye. It would be a few more $$$ saved and a bigger CEO check. If they could get rid of CD-ROM's, they would. For us, it is a likely possibility in our 2008 upgrade that will not have any form of DISC ROM since 99%+ of the staff can just download what they need via vendor sites. If they need to read a disc they can go to the secretary and get a USB CD/DVD ROM.

BTW, even our next gen PC's (2005) only have 20GB HDD's. If you ask why, you don't store data on local PC's...data belongs on the servers which back-up the data. Rumor was they almost convinced dell to make them 2.5" drives for free. Imagine the power savings per year with that many machines (~$100k year). You might say why don't you turn your machines off; we can't, software upgrades/patching occurs at night.

A non-powered machine is dangerous on a network, especially when an looming virus/worm is around. If you can't figure that one out....I might as well stop here.

-tReP
 
USMC2Hard4U said:
My New PCIe Mobo was only 150$.... SO I dont see what the big deal is :)
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And how much were your DDR2, PCIe graphics cad, and P/S with all the new connectors on it?
 
I don't know about your business, but at my organization different groups and people have different needs. Needs that require add-in cards.

And my point for mentioning PCI slots is your believe that suddenly everything will be PCI-e tomorrow. Eventually, yes, but tomorrow, no. And tomorrow, there will still be AGP cards on the market, people will still be buying them, and using them, because they're just as effective as PCI-e cards today, tomorrow, day after tomorrow, and I believe Monday as well.

If you can't figure out Tuesday, well I may as well stop here.
 
Dr. DVS 1 said:
And how much were your DDR2, PCIe graphics cad, and P/S with all the new connectors on it?
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What new PSU? PCIe-based mobos come in both ATX and ATX 2.0 flavors?

And DDR2? WTF? Gaming machines (AMD) don't even USE DDR2!
 
zoidberg3001 said:
Oh one other thing guys were in AUSTRALIA so Parts tend to cost a lot more than over there in the USA.

For example 7800GTX
USA $599USD
Australia Ranges from $836-$1000+ in places

Some people cant really justify shelling out for a new mobo/cpu when they recently bought AGP based systems.
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Jesus, your ancestors paid for their crimes years ago! It's like Australians are still being punished with those prices.
 
dderidex said:
What new PSU? PCIe-based mobos come in both ATX and ATX 2.0 flavors?
Click to expand...

They will all conform to the 24/8 power connectors Soon Enough. Don't forget 6-pin graphics power and 4 or more SATA.

And DDR2? WTF? Gaming machines (AMD) don't even USE DDR2!
Click to expand...

ALL WILL CONFORM. MUWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
 
Ok ive had a nice long read of the posts any many of your are proving my point to a tee. AGP is here now and alot of people still have it including a large number of gamers and OC'ers. Im not on some "Save the AGP Slot" greenpeace rampage.

Im all for PCI-e but the fact is its a major upgrade and people that just bought a system with AGP that want the "Latest and Greatest" 256mb card are gonna have a fit when i say "Sorry but they discontinued it all last week". There shouldnt be a Premium on buying a upgradable system.

And its a pain in the ass cause my 2 main rigs are Both AGP.
 
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