Where Gaming Begins: Ep. 2 | AMD Radeon™ RX 6000 Series Graphics Cards - 11am CDT 10/28/20

6800 seems priced too high. Not so much compared to 3070, since it's a bit faster with double the memory, but it's too close to the 6800XT. 6700XT could make it even less relevant.

But, all in all, a fantastic showing. Finally some competition on the GPU end.
 
Meeho said:
What I took from the presentation:

- competitive across the board, top to [current] bottom

- genious leveraging of in-company CPU-GPU synergy via Smart Access Memory boost

- TBP numbers and 6900XT impressive binning indicate good AIB overclocking possibilities
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It’s almost like the CEO is getting the divisions to work together, fucking crazy. Shit never happens in the real world.
 
Aegir said:
Ray Tracing is a gimmick feature until Gen III or IV.
Same with most gimmick features or hardware, like VR or whatever else.

Give it time to mature. At first it stands out as a feature, then it becomes a standard.
If AMD isn't that great at ray tracing, it's not really a big deal to me. Yet.

At a certain point, it will be a standard that I expect AMD to keep up with.
For now, I just won't pay it much mind until the RT game library is significantly larger.

As it is, AMD has unleashed a demon whose stare will penetrate deep into Jensen's heart.
How will he sleep at night? Will he?

Perhaps not.
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What should probably scare Nvidia more then RDNA 2... is knowing AMD is not a struggling company anymore... and the RDNA team is already working on RDNA 3.

Looks like they hit right where they wanted to this generation. Having secured the console market (which has been something like 30% of their GPU division sales) for the next 3-5 years... OLD AMD would have went to sleep. I'm not so sure new Lisa AMD is going to take a nap. I have a feeling RDNA 3 may well put Nvidia far back on their heals and completely kill Intels desire to make anything but iGPUs and perhaps Laptop cards.
 
I feel like a 3080 Ti at the $899-999 price point is almost guaranteed now. Would be the logical response to the 6900 XT.
 
MangoSeed said:
They showed other Nvidia titles like Youngblood and Doom Eternal.
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RTX is much more specific than general performance in rasterization. Nvidia has had a major head start in developers optimizing for their ray tracing. There isn't even any RT games released that are optimized for AMD. It's all too fledgling new. Each is going to prefer specific types of calculations, and we don't know where AMD sits yet, and probably won't until games start rolling out that optimize for it.
 
ChadD said:
What should probably scare Nvidia more then RDNA 2... is knowing AMD is not a struggling company anymore... and the RDNA team is already working on RDNA 3.

Looks like they hit right where they wanted to this generation. Having secured the console market (which has been something like 30% of their GPU division sales) for the next 3-5 years... OLD AMD would have went to sleep. I'm not so sure new Lisa AMD is going to take a nap. I have a feeling RDNA 3 may well put Nvidia far back on their heals and completely kill Intels desire to make anything but iGPUs and perhaps Laptop cards.
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The "new AMD" has several leapfrogging teams in CPU and GPU. At least as far as CPU, I know they have Zen4 AND Zen5 teams going on. Agreed, this AMD is keeping the foot on the gas to the floor 24/7/365 no matter what the competition brings.
 
MavericK said:
Agreed, we are missing a decent part of the picture here with non-Smart Memory Access numbers and RT performance. Also no mention of anything to compete with DLSS as far as I saw.
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They won't have anything to compete with DLSS for a while, Microsofts DirectML isn't a DLSS competitor it's a CUDA competitor, so somebody would have to use DirectML to implement an AI to develop an algorithm to create their DLSS alternative and that takes time. So while I am pretty sure it will happen I don't think it will be until the next generation as it isn't even fully implemented in the DX12 spec yet. Last I checked the only way to use DirectML was using the Windows 10 test branch.
 
ChadD said:
Cause they don't have a 3070 to bench. As Nvidia hasn't shipped any to customers... or competitors quite yet.
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TPU already has the 3070 FE review, as does other sites; I'm sure that AMD calculated that 3070 would be around 2080 Ti performance (give or take a few %), and adjusted pricing/performance on the 6800 to reflect that (a solid, initial 15% across the board over 2080 Ti would really hurt what the 3070 brings to the table, even with the best possible driver optimizations from NVIDIA).
 
Meeho said:
6800 seems priced too high. Not so much compared to 3070, since it's a bit faster with double the memory, but it's too close to the 6800XT. 6700XT could make it even less relevant.

But, all in all, a fantastic showing. Finally some competition on the GPU end.
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Well if AMDs slides pan out... 6800 is going to wipe the floor with the 3070. Unless I read the wrong 3070 reviews it seemed to trade blows with the 2080ti.... and 6800 just bested the 2080ti at 4k, and stomped it at 1440 which probably the #1 target resolution for consumers at that market point.
 
Lakados said:
They won't have anything to compete with DLSS for a while, Microsofts DirectML isn't a DLSS competitor it's a CUDA competitor, so somebody would have to use DirectML to implement an AI to develop an algorithm to create their DLSS alternative and that takes time. So while I am pretty sure it will happen I don't think it will be until the next generation as it isn't even fully implemented in the DX12 spec yet. Last I checked the only way to use DirectML was using the Windows 10 test branch.
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AMD uses "Radeon Image Sharpening"

Not sure how that stacks up visually to DLSS now. DLSS 1.0 was overrated, I hear DLSS 2.0 much improved.

https://www.techspot.com/article/1873-radeon-image-sharpening-vs-nvidia-dlss/
 
Lakados said:
They won't have anything to compete with DLSS for a while, Microsofts DirectML isn't a DLSS competitor it's a CUDA competitor, so somebody would have to use DirectML to implement an AI to develop an algorithm to create their DLSS alternative and that takes time. So while I am pretty sure it will happen I don't think it will be until the next generation as it isn't even fully implemented in the DX12 spec yet. Last I checked the only way to use DirectML was using the Windows 10 test branch.
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Since DLSS really is useless at least to me, who gives a poop about it. Right now it should be raw performance vs. raw performance. The games that even use DLSS are mostly all older single player games anyway. I don't plan to go back and play Metro Exodus, or Death Stranding, or Control JUST because i have a 3090 and DLSS.

Right now DLSS and RT are a useless feature. Give 2-3 more generations when it becomes more widespread then MAYBE we can compare AMD's implementation vs Nvidias.
 
Lakados said:
They won't have anything to compete with DLSS for a while, Microsofts DirectML isn't a DLSS competitor it's a CUDA competitor, so somebody would have to use DirectML to implement an AI to develop an algorithm to create their DLSS alternative and that takes time. So while I am pretty sure it will happen I don't think it will be until the next generation as it isn't even fully implemented in the DX12 spec yet. Last I checked the only way to use DirectML was using the Windows 10 test branch.
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Good thing DLSS is a gimmick and crap due to reduced visual quality, I can reduce the visual settings myself for better performance thank ya very much nvidia.
 
Nice.
Hopefully these will actually be available. This makes my videocard decision a bit more complicated later on, especially because I don't have any interest in upgrading my 3900X anytime soon.
 
Lakados said:
They won't have anything to compete with DLSS for a while, Microsofts DirectML isn't a DLSS competitor it's a CUDA competitor, so somebody would have to use DirectML to implement an AI to develop an algorithm to create their DLSS alternative and that takes time. So while I am pretty sure it will happen I don't think it will be until the next generation as it isn't even fully implemented in the DX12 spec yet. Last I checked the only way to use DirectML was using the Windows 10 test branch.
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The rumor from the same person that was 100% accurate on Big Navi leaks is they will have it in December.
 
I'm not really understanding the pricing and to be honest I think the pricing absolutely sucks on the 6900 XT and is very impressive even on the 6800 XT. The 6800 makes absolutely zero sense of being only 70 bucks cheaper than the 6800 XT. And the 6800 XT trades blows with the 3080 yet is only $50 cheaper. So essentially there's absolutely no reason for NVIDIA to even lower prices at all. And the 6900 XT is only about 11 to 12% faster than the 3080 yet costs f****** 50% more. And sorry but the 3090 was already a stupid card that nobody even would consider and it still will have the vram advantage for those that actually need it. So bottom line this myth that competition is always great doesn't pan out yet again as all it does is allow two companies to have very high prices.
 
I was really impressed by this. 3090 performance for $500 less. 3080 performance for $50 less. No wonder Nvidia rushed their 3000 cards to market before having enough stock. Nobody would buy them after AMD launches theirs!

I also am really impressed by Lisa Su. She has completely turned AMD around. That's even more impressive when you consider she had to do it on 2 fronts (CPU and GPU) against massive companies with more money and resources.

So yeah, it's a good day to be an AMD fanboy. Not so good if you spent $500 on a G-Sync monitor though {he says as he looks thru tear filled eyes at his Acer Predator} lolol

Ricky T said:
I'm not really understanding the pricing and to be honest I think the pricing absolutely sucks on the 6900 XT and is very impressive even on the 6800 XT. The 6800 makes absolutely zero sense of being only 70 bucks cheaper than the 6800 XT. And the 6800 XT trades blows with the 3080 yet is only $50 cheaper. So essentially there's absolutely no reason for NVIDIA to even lower prices at all. And the 6900 XT is only about 11 to 12% faster than the 3080 yet costs f****** 50% more. And sorry but the 3090 was already a stupid card that nobody even would consider and it still will have the vram advantage for those that actually need it. So bottom line this myth that competition is always great doesn't pan out yet again as all it does is allow two companies to have very high prices.
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The 6900XT is as fast as the 3090 but is $500 less. How does that suck or did I miss something?

The 6800XT is as fast as the 3080 but $50 cheaper and the 6800 is faster than a 3070 but slower than a 3080 so it's priced in between. I don't see how those prices could be that bad.
 
Ricky T said:
I'm not really understanding the pricing and to be honest I think the pricing absolutely sucks on the 6900 XT and is not impressive at all even on the 6800 XT. the 6800 makes absolutely zero sense of being only 70 bucks cheaper than the 6800 XT. And the 6800 XT trades blows with the 3080 yet is only $50 cheaper. So essentially there's absolutely no reason for NVIDIA to even lower prices at all. And the 6900 XT is only about 10 to 12% faster than the 3080 yet costs f****** 50% more. and sorry but the 390 was already a stupid card that nobody even would consider and it still will have the vram advantage for those that actually need it. So bottom line this myth that competition is always great doesn't pan out yet again as all it does is allow two companies to have very high prices.
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I will put it bluntly, who the hell cares if Nvidia lowers their prices or not, AMD is not responsible for what Nvidia does or does not do. On the other hand, as someone else said here: BOOM! HEADSHOT! :D
 
Ricky T said:
I'm not really understanding the pricing and to be honest I think the pricing absolutely sucks on the 6900 XT and is not impressive at all even on the 6800 XT. the 6800 makes absolutely zero sense of being only 70 bucks cheaper than the 6800 XT. And the 6800 XT trades blows with the 3080 yet is only $50 cheaper. So essentially there's absolutely no reason for NVIDIA to even lower prices at all. And the 6900 XT is only about 10 to 12% faster than the 3080 yet costs f****** 50% more. and sorry but the 390 was already a stupid card that nobody even would consider and it still will have the vram advantage for those that actually need it. So bottom line this myth that competition is always great doesn't pan out yet again as all it does is allow two companies to have very high prices.
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It's not that hard to understand. They see people literally falling over themselves to get a 3080. Why not price a similar card a little cheaper?

People paying the Nvidia premium created this situation.
 
ChadD said:
Hard to say Nvidia still loves to sell Quatro cards.... and with CUDA to be fair they can mostly get away with doing that.
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Loved to sell Quadro cards, they killed the brand it no longer exists, if you are using the studio drivers you do get the CUDA stuff for work station but what you don't get is the virtualization stuff and a few other more advanced features set for multi-user or simultaneous access from having different programs use it at once.
 
Brackle said:
Since DLSS really is useless at least to me, who gives a poop about it. Right now it should be raw performance vs. raw performance. The games that even use DLSS are mostly all older single player games anyway. I don't plan to go back and play Metro Exodus, or Death Stranding, or Control JUST because i have a 3090 and DLSS.

Right now DLSS and RT are a useless feature. Give 2-3 more generations when it becomes more widespread then MAYBE we can compare AMD's implementation vs Nvidias.
Click to expand...

Funny you mention that ... over @ r/AMD, a number of bitter fanboys (burned 3080/3090 buyers?) are angrily growling about how AMD doesn't have DLSS or effective ray-tracing, while the rest of r/AMD is quite happy.
 
Ricky T said:
I'm not really understanding the pricing and to be honest I think the pricing absolutely sucks on the 6900 XT and is not impressive at all even on the 6800 XT. the 6800 makes absolutely zero sense of being only 70 bucks cheaper than the 6800 XT. And the 6800 XT trades blows with the 3080 yet is only $50 cheaper. So essentially there's absolutely no reason for NVIDIA to even lower prices at all. And the 6900 XT is only about 10 to 12% faster than the 3080 yet costs f****** 50% more. and sorry but the 390 was already a stupid card that nobody even would consider and it still will have the vram advantage for those that actually need it. So bottom line this myth that competition is always great doesn't pan out yet again as all it does is allow two companies to have very high prices.
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Problem is your math is wrong. Getting a 3080 at $699 is damn near impossible right now. You would be lucky to get one at $749 let alone getting one at all. So (BIG IF) AMd can delivery cards at $649 with same/better performance than a 3080 how is that not a win? And when it comes to the 6900XT, why would you not charge $999 for a card that is possibly (MAYBE) as fast/faster than the competitions video card that is priced at $1550+ (good luck getting a 3090 at MSRP).

Just my 0.02c
 
GreenOrbs said:
3070 isn't publicly available yet. No way NVIDIA is giving AMD an unreleased card to compare their products against. (its probably one of the reasons NVIDIA pushed their 3070 release back from 10/15 to after this at 10/29)
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I never thought about this reason for the 3070 push back. You win a gold star, this is the simplest and most likely hypothesis. It would kill marketing if they directly were able to use the card and didn't have to lead non techie consumers to make the comparison.

richard-rosa-golden-ninja-star-mini.jpg
 
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tungt88 said:
TPU already has the 3070 FE review, as does other sites; I'm sure that AMD calculated that 3070 would be around 2080 Ti performance (give or take a few %), and adjusted pricing/performance on the 6800 to reflect that (a solid, initial 15% across the board over 2080 Ti would really hurt what the 3070 brings to the table, even with the best possible driver optimizations from NVIDIA).
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Those are early review partners though... Nvidia isn't sending one of those cards to AMD. If AMD used a product that wasn't avalible for sale yet... they would be opening themselves up to two bad scenarios.
One is legal... they can't possibly have bought one as it releases for sale tomorrow. They for sure didn't sign a Nvidia review agreement to get one.
Secondly... Nvidia could always pull a silly new firmware type marketing move. Its not like it hasn't been done before. (tongue in cheek there, even a AMD booster can admit they have pulled some boners)
 
tungt88 said:
Funny you mention that ... over @ r/AMD, a number of bitter fanboys (burned 3080/3090 buyers?) are angrily growling about how AMD doesn't have DLSS or effective ray-tracing, while the rest of r/AMD is quite happy.
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Good on them! glad to hear they are upset over useless features laugh. Don't get me wrong RT does have a future, it just isn't viable right now if you ask me. Right now there are 2 games that I currently play that support it, and I keep it turned off because of the performance hit. COD:MW and WoW.

Again RT has a future, just isn't something worth while yet.
 
NightReaver said:
It's not that hard to understand. They see people literally falling over themselves to get a 3080. Why not price a similar card a little cheaper?

People paying the Nvidia premium created this situation.
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Because it doesn't change anything at all and just allows Nvidia to have the same prices. I was hoping it would be another $50 less because it doesn't even beat the 3080 overall. At 599 it would be a killer deal because then at least you could justify it not beating the 3080 overall. And if you think the 6800 for just 70 bucks less than the 1600 XT makes any sense then I don't know what to tell you. And thanks to Nvidia having a ridiculously priced Halo card that allows AMD now to come in and charge 1000 goddamn dollars for their top GPU.
 
Stryker7314 said:
Good thing DLSS is a gimmick and crap due to reduced visual quality, I can reduce the visual settings myself for better performance thank ya very much nvidia.
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Thats the old DLSS. The second version actually looks really good, minus few artifacts on certain situations, and very comparable to native 4K rendering. It is still new and very few games support the new DLSS 2.0 but I do believe this kind of AI upscaling is the future. 4K was already a pain in the ass to get into playable refresh rates (only now it is feasible) and 8K is going to be even worse, much worse. Brute forcing the performance up to make higher resolutions playable is getting harder. DLSS is a smart way to go around the issue. Credit where credit is due, Nvidia is on the right track in this regard.

.typo fix
 
Ricky T said:
I'm not really understanding the pricing and to be honest I think the pricing absolutely sucks on the 6900 XT and is very impressive even on the 6800 XT. The 6800 makes absolutely zero sense of being only 70 bucks cheaper than the 6800 XT. And the 6800 XT trades blows with the 3080 yet is only $50 cheaper. So essentially there's absolutely no reason for NVIDIA to even lower prices at all. And the 6900 XT is only about 11 to 12% faster than the 3080 yet costs f****** 50% more. and sorry but the 390 was already a stupid card that nobody even would consider and it still will have the vram advantage for those that actually need it. So bottom line this myth that competition is always great doesn't pan out yet again as all it does is allow two companies to have very high prices.
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If you can find a $700 3080 than it’s $50 cheaper. Real world, it’s probably going to be $100 to $150 cheaper. Also the 6800 is going to provide 3070 level performance with twice the memory for 10% more money. It’s going to come down to personal preference on that one, but for that level of performance I feel much more confident with the longevity of >8gb of memory.
Of course all of this is dependent on 3rd party reviews confirming the AMD results.
 
ChadD said:
Those are early review partners though... Nvidia isn't sending one of those cards to AMD. If AMD used a product that wasn't avalible for sale yet... they would be opening themselves up to two bad scenarios.
One is legal... they can't possibly have bought one as it releases for sale tomorrow. They for sure didn't sign a Nvidia review agreement to get one.
Secondly... Nvidia could always pull a silly new firmware type marketing move. Its not like it hasn't been done before. (tongue in cheek there, even a AMD booster can admit they have pulled some boners)
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I'm pretty sure that AMD thought NVIDIA was gonna stick with recent protocol, and have the xx70 match up to the previous "near-top-tier" performer, like the 1070 was to the GTX 980/980 Ti, and the 2070 was to the 1080/1080 Ti -- seems to have been a very smart bet, given that NVIDIA "baked" that thought process into consumer memory over the past few years. So AMD pushed the 6800 to be 15% over the 2080 Ti (just in case the 3070 was gonna be 5-10% better).
 
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LeftSide said:
If you can find a $700 3080 than it’s $50 cheaper. Real world, it’s probably going to be $100 to $150 cheaper. Also the 6800 is going to provide 3070 level performance with twice the memory for 10% more money. It’s going to come down to personal preference on that one, but for that level of performance I feel much more confident with the longevity of >8gb of memory.
Of course all of this is dependent on 3rd party reviews confirming the AMD results.
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Really think about what you're saying as you're acting as if the AMD cards are going to be right at MSRP and only Nvidia cards are going to be above it. As Joe Biden would say come on man...
 
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MaZa said:
Thats the old DLSS. The second version actually looks really good, minus few artifacts on certain situations, and very comparable to native 4K rendering. It is still new and very few games support the new DLSS 2.0 but I do believe this kind of AI upscaling is the future. 4K was already a pain in the ass to get into playable resolutions (only now it is feasible) and 8K is going to be even worse, much worse. Brute forcing the performance up to make higher resolutions is getting harder. DLSS is a smart way to go around the issue. Credit where credit is due, Nvidia is on the right track in this regard.
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The problem with DLSS is the developer has to implement it, other than older games that people aren't going to go back and play because of DLSS.

The one game I do look forward trying DLSS and RT is with Cyberpunk.
 
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