Where Gaming Begins: Ep. 2 | AMD Radeon™ RX 6000 Series Graphics Cards - 11am CDT 10/28/20

Lakados

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Let me talk facts instead of opinions. It is 100% fact that dlss 2.0 in quality mode looks better overall than native resolution while running better.
I don't know if it is fact, but objectively it does look and feel better to me so I will mostly agree with this. I just wish Anthem was a better game and I can't wait for the MW5 expansions.
 

ChadD

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Not sure if this is the place to discuss this, but I'm getting a lot of feedback AMD's drivers? They that bad?

No they are not.

Their drivers had issues for 3-4 weeks around the 5700 launch where some games on some systems would cause black screens when you tried tabbing from full screen to desktop. That was solved in one patch cycle. And keep in mind it effected a sizable but still small number of users. I never had a black screen on those drivers... but yes that got smoothed out.

AMDs drivers are flashier which takes some getting used to. However they have some fantastic features. RIS is top notch... I know Nvidia added their version and its basically just a reshade still its dead simple to flip on and off and adjust and looks great in 90% of the games I play anyway.... their driver easily allows you to change settings per game, and tracks Average FPS in each game ect. It all works great.

Also Radeon Chill coolest feature in the AMD driver. I assume a lot of people are going to want to use that with these cards. I use it all the time on my 5700 XT it keeps the card from over drawing frames.... and with older and less demanding games, you throw it on and set it one FPS under your refresh to enable freesync. I still play Star Trek online cause I'm a sucker... and the game sits one FPS under my refresh at all times, and unless something crazy is going on in the game my GPU fans don't even turn on. With the power in these new cards... I expect a lot of people will be able to set Chill to their refresh and enjoy silent operation at least in their older titles.

EDIT... also if it matters AMD has the superior Linux drivers. :p
 

sfsuphysics

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Well if Nvidia showed us anything... don't quite buy into the hype based on the company's conference about it, wait for 3rd party reviewers to chime in first.

That said I'm really curious how much going team red for GPU & CPU will really matter. "Look it's 8% better than the 3080" but I need to buy the new 5000 series of Zen CPUs to do that? Now ok sure eventually down the road, but my 3600x isn't going to be able to unlock the full potential of the card which does kind of sound like another version of CPU bottlenecking (and yeah I know it's different please don't point that out to me)

That said, I'm not quite the enthusiast ... not even close actually ... so I was hoping for a sub $500 card that was on par with the 2080ti This is one of those times I wish the FE-tax of about $100 was still true.
 

MangoSeed

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Well done AMD. You’re back in the hunt.

This is reminiscent of 7970 or 290x days. Performance and pricing are on par so now the marketing guys on both sides will be on overdrive.

Despite what a minority of naysayers are proclaiming AMD absolutely needs to demonstrate competitive performance in next gen features otherwise they will continue to be a second thought for the average buyer who like it or not is swayed by marketing.
 

variant

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wrong. they already said that it's all based off of DX12U DXR even nvidia's RTX. and they said that the cards will do raytracing in all existing and future titles
DX12U is just an API. That does not change that each architecture does it differently. It will do the raytracing, but it will be far from optimized, and optimization is key when you are dealing with rendering that will cut your frame rate to such a significant degree.
 

Delicieuxz

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It's great to see that AMD is back as a top-tier GPU manufacturer.

Now, if we say that AMD's slides are perfectly accurate, is the 6800XT an RTX 3080 slayer? It looks like it has slightly-more performance, slightly-less power-consumption, and a slightly-lower price. And with an AMD 5000-series CPU, they can have reduced latency. In what ways would an RTX 3080 be better than a 6800XT?

AMD say they're working on their own DLSS equivalent, which will be open-software. They have ray-tracing. What about GameWorks - does any of that stuff not work with AMD GPUs?
 

Lakados

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Each architecture does raytracing differently. You are going to need games to be optimized. It's not a matter of just flicking on a switch and getting good performance out of it.
Not quite, if they followed the DX12 specification then they should be near identical, as RTX is just DXR 1.0 and DXR 1.1 is the version that has been officially rolled into the support profile by Microsoft.

Traditionally "optimizing" games just meant spending a crapload of time, altering textures, and lighting effects to better work in a memory or bandwidth constrained environment. One of the huge advantages for developers is ray tracing removes the need for them to do this and it just lets the game deal with those lighting effects and texture optimizations on the fly so they can just focus on lighting sources and making sure they have the material properties set correctly in the textures and not have to worry about the finer details. More computationally expensive, yes, but can potentially save months of development hassles. It's why the Texture import tools in Unreal Engine 5 are possibly some of its greatest features.
 

d3athf1sh

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Well done AMD. You’re back in the hunt.

This is reminiscent of 7970 or 290x days. Performance and pricing are on par so now the marketing guys on both sides will be on overdrive.

Despite what a minority of naysayers are proclaiming AMD absolutely needs to demonstrate competitive performance in next gen features otherwise they will continue to be a second thought for the average buyer who like it or not is swayed by marketing.
um, amd IS nextgen as far as i see it. they are in the new consoles and went over and above DX12U specs with a couple of new features like direct gpu memory access and a couple of other things like directStorage and the shader thing and the lag reduction stuff. IMO amd hit a homerun with their new lineup. Not sure what next gen features you think they're missing?
 

Lakados

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uh, amd IS nextgen as far as i see it. they are in the new consoles and went over and above DX12U specs with a couple of new features like direct gpu memory access and a couple of other things like directStorage and the shader thing and the lag reduction stuff. IMO AMD hit a homerun with their new lineup. Not sure what next gen features you think they're missing?
Well direct GPU memory access and Direct Storage are part of the DX12U spec so not really above and beyond, I look forward to seeing titles using them it will make a pretty big difference. The ability to have the OS partition off a section of the memory on the GPU for the game to run out of is a pretty nice one and when paired with direct storage can do some seriously nice things. I just don't see those features coming to PC for a good number of years in any meaningful way. Otherwise, you are going to see a lot of games hitting the shelves that require an M.2 and a minimum of 10GB in GPU ram and those requirements would cut off too much of their market.
 

Lakados

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Well if Nvidia showed us anything... don't quite buy into the hype based on the company's conference about it, wait for 3rd party reviewers to chime in first.

That said I'm really curious how much going team red for GPU & CPU will really matter. "Look it's 8% better than the 3080" but I need to buy the new 5000 series of Zen CPUs to do that? Now ok sure eventually down the road, but my 3600x isn't going to be able to unlock the full potential of the card which does kind of sound like another version of CPU bottlenecking (and yeah I know it's different please don't point that out to me)

That said, I'm not quite the enthusiast ... not even close actually ... so I was hoping for a sub $500 card that was on par with the 2080ti This is one of those times I wish the FE-tax of about $100 was still true.
I think this is going to be one of those cases where the AMD cards hold better value down the road when more of their features are implemented on a large scale but until that happens there is a bit of a hill to climb to get into their new ecosystem. That said it looks like a good one, if Microsoft can get their DirectML language to be adopted to a decent degree NVidia could see some serious competition on their hands. This is where AMD's console dominance could start paying off because their CPU's and GPU's can start to implement many of those features and it becomes a smaller environment to develop for it's almost an Apple approach to doing things....
 

variant

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Not quite, if they followed the DX12 specification then they should be near identical, as RTX is just DXR 1.0 and DXR 1.1 is the version that has been officially rolled into the support profile by Microsoft.

Traditionally "optimizing" games just meant spending a crapload of time, altering textures, and lighting effects to better work in a memory or bandwidth constrained environment. One of the huge advantages for developers is ray tracing removes the need for them to do this and it just lets the game deal with those lighting effects and texture optimizations on the fly so they can just focus on lighting sources and making sure they have the material properties set correctly in the textures and not have to worry about the finer details. More computationally expensive, yes, but can potentially save months of development hassles. It's why the Texture import tools in Unreal Engine 5 are possibly some of its greatest features.
Again, DX12 is just an API. The means for code to talk to the hardware in a standardized fashion. It doesn't remove the developers need to optimize. Factors come into play such as how a hardware handles vertex rendering since to raytrace you need to render geometry first, and then calculate the rays based on the rendered scene. Cache amount, latency, ability for shaders to talk with the RT hardware, the calculations each hardware is optimized for etc, all determines the best approach in ray tracing. Something that is almost free on one architecture could burden another. One thing people should understand is that ray tracing is a complicated mess, and will continue to be a complicated mess for years to come.
 

SPARTAN VI

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don't they have different amount of cu's?
Yes, the CU counts are different as they were with the Vega cards (56 & 64 CUs) and RX 5700 series cards (40 & 36 CUs) and Polaris, but we know from past experience that CU count alone didn't stop us. That doesn't mean I 100% expect a repeat with big Navi, but my fellow [H]'ers are certainly watching closely.
 

Aireoth

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I am excited for some real world reviews, especially of the entire system (I need a new CPU, still sitting on a I5-4670).
 
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The RTX titles used DXR 1.0, the DXR 1.1 spec is the one rolled into DX12U and maintains full backward compatibility. NVidia, didn't deviate from the spec so unless the developers did some funky implementations the AMD cards should work out the gate or with a minor patch.


Agreed. While I watched Hurklemen speak, I thought,just show one single current title ?
why not run Control? Or Battlefield 5 or Metro, Youngblood, Minecraft
or any other title in which AMD claims full DXR Hardware support,with it turned on and hit
nVIDIA with a real HEADSHOT once and for all ? I want more eye candy,I dont care if Doom Eternal is running at 310 FPS versus 305,I dont play MSI Afterburner FPS counter as many seem to these days. I cannot wait to see benchmarks from independent sources and hope the community isnt plagued with driver issues again.
 

sfsuphysics

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So when do review embargos drop? Seeing the usual players all yapping about the same conference is kind of a let down... I mean I can watch that, I don't need someone else telling me what I just saw, but what I do need is someone with the actual card telling me if that presentation was absolute bullshit or what. Best I got was Linus saying "You should definitely wait if you were going to buy an 3070 card"
 

Derangel

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So when do review embargos drop? Seeing the usual players all yapping about the same conference is kind of a let down... I mean I can watch that, I don't need someone else telling me what I just saw, but what I do need is someone with the actual card telling me if that presentation was absolute bullshit or what. Best I got was Linus saying "You should definitely wait if you were going to buy an 3070 card"

Reviews won’t drop until much, much, closer to release. Might even be release date or the day before. As is, no one has cards in hand yet.
 

sfsuphysics

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I am excited for some real world reviews, especially of the entire system (I need a new CPU, still sitting on a I5-4670).
Kind of bummed about this myself, I too am looking for an upgrade, but I'd like to maybe slide in on cheaper 3000 series with the knowledge that the chipset will be upgradeable to at least the 5000 series, but if you lose out on potential performance with by not having 5000 series stuff then it will be a bummer.

That said, this is why I want some real world reviews, I'm curious how big the difference really will be if you don't go all in on the 5k cpu
 

Lakados

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So when do review embargos drop? Seeing the usual players all yapping about the same conference is kind of a let down... I mean I can watch that, I don't need someone else telling me what I just saw, but what I do need is someone with the actual card telling me if that presentation was absolute bullshit or what. Best I got was Linus saying "You should definitely wait if you were going to buy an 3070 card"
Fortunately, supply woes are taking care of the waiting for most of us.
 

TurboGLH

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whoa whoa whoa I will be happy to be wrong cuz finally AMD caught up but where are the numbers?

We'll have to wait on reviews to confirm, but I believe that AMD knows it's better to be honest and show a loss or less of a win than to inflate numbers and be called out for lying.

But, based on today's numbers (and your request to be quoted on release) I quoted you.
 

Lakados

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Kind of bummed about this myself, I too am looking for an upgrade, but I'd like to maybe slide in on cheaper 3000 series with the knowledge that the chipset will be upgradeable to at least the 5000 series, but if you lose out on potential performance with by not having 5000 series stuff then it will be a bummer.

That said, this is why I want some real world reviews, I'm curious how big the difference really will be if you don't go all in on the 5k cpu
Immediate performance, not a huge amount probably 7% ish. Later features I could see it being an issue, once some next-gen titles actually start landing I could see the lack of Direct Storage and other creature features starting to bite you in the behind. But guessing on "Future Features" is not always a great way to go about things because who knows what actual adoption will bring. Honestly, unless you are super hard-pressed and you need something now then I would wait, and if you need something now get it for what you need for now, and if it does stuff later then lucky you. But I am going to shelve any upgrade plans until March or April at this point, between NVidia's supply problems, and AMD's launch dates I just don't see any reasonable alternative.
 

notarat

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It's not very complicated to look at pros and cons of an image. There are people that do this for a f****** living. Their determination has been that dlss 2.0 in quality mode produces a better overall image than native resolution. You can argue all you want but that's what people that study image quality have concluded. And I know God damn well my eyeballs back that up. Again no one is saying dlss 2.0 is perfect but the overall image does look better than native resolution while also giving you the benefit of running much better. How in the hell is that not a win-win?

Well if some random guy says it's better then it must be true!
 

Randall Stephens

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Immediate performance, not a huge amount probably 7% ish. Later features I could see it being an issue, once some next-gen titles actually start landing I could see the lack of Direct Storage and other creature features starting to bite you in the behind. But guessing on "Future Features" is not always a great way to go about things because who knows what actual adoption will bring. Honestly, unless you are super hard-pressed and you need something now then I would wait, and if you need something now get it for what you need for now, and if it does stuff later then lucky you. But I am going to shelve any upgrade plans until March or April at this point, between NVidia's supply problems, and AMD's launch dates I just don't see any reasonable alternative.

+1 quality post. Really by the time any of the cool new features start getting utilized, we’ll be on the next upgrade cycle.
 

Lakados

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Oh okay so good to know that a channel like digital foundry would be considered just some random guy. :rolleyes:
Given the right subset of people then he very well could be, what was the pool that the random people were pulled from. I mean if X=4 can be considered random then what else can be.
 

MangoSeed

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um, amd IS nextgen as far as i see it. they are in the new consoles and went over and above DX12U specs with a couple of new features like direct gpu memory access and a couple of other things like directStorage and the shader thing and the lag reduction stuff. IMO amd hit a homerun with their new lineup. Not sure what next gen features you think they're missing?

I suggest you read my post again. I didn’t say anything about missing features.
 

Krenum

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AMD shows its new graphics card matches and beats Nvidia's offerings at 1440p & 4K...BUT DLSS! Yeah, AMD has that too.

Give me a break.
 

DPI

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Great to see AMD looking competitive again, however I'll wait for benchmarks without the R5000 CPU crutch to see what the real apples-to-apples numbers are, since not everyone will want to buy a new MB/CPU just to achieve same or less performance to equivalent Nvidia.

Obviously for a new build, something like 5600x + 6800/XT is a no-brainer combo though.
 
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Lakados

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AMD shows its new graphics card matches and beats Nvidia's offerings at 1440p & 4K...BUT DLSS! Yeah, AMD has that too.

Give me a break.
I don't know that AMD does have DLSS just plans for it, but until I see a larger catalog of support for it I wouldn't call a lack of DLSS a deal-breaker I just want independent 3'rd party reviews
 
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what presentation were you watching? they mentioned ray tracing a number of times. The developers they had talking about the card mentioned ray tracing specifically a number of times.
 

variant

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I don't know that AMD does have DLSS just plans for it, but until I see a larger catalog of support for it I wouldn't call a lack of DLSS a deal-breaker I just want independent 3'rd party reviews
They said during the conference they plan to have a DirectX SuperResolution feature, which is a DirectML upscaling tech. Rumors have stated it will be ready in December.
 
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