Where are the 8K Monitors?

[BrainEater]

Oh man, wow again !

Stunning . Flawless victory !!
I've only started (yesterday) with true 8k media, and I still have no way to feed 8k from my PC. I'm working on it.

I decided I will share the potato pics, poor res/drunk phone focus , they still show 8k brilliantly !

Here's the TV with an 8k wallpaper.


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See that little white smear on the top right corner ?
Zoom in !

It looked like a photoshop error to me from 10 feet away, then I walked up close and looked. Here's a pic from 10 inches away ;


!!
It's shocking how small the pixels are. Brilliant !
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Here's an initial review.

-I heard lotsa whining about TiZen OS online, it's been flawless so far, what plex server ?
-It's bright !, i've turned it down a bit, it also does an odd autobrightness thing with text....Still learning the video settings.
-Infinity edge bezel is soooo worth it !

5/5

More to come.

 

[elvn]

Got a 4k 27 inch monitor and sitting close, putting the same 4k video games or 4k movies side by side to a 1440p monitor and the resolution upgrade seem useless to a level not sure I could tell which is which in blindtest scenario of uselessness, face close to it, looking for any difference, even knowing which is which I am not able to tell a difference (could be my eyes obviously).

But for text it is better, so for larger monitor I can imagine that being true for 4k vs 8k, completely useless (4k already was to me) for content but text benefitting.

Movies are 4:2:0 which is a little downgrade compared to pc stuff. If it was showing text it would look tattered at 4:2:0, but it does that to everything, it's just not as obvious.

I've used 4k and 1440p monitors side by side before, 1440p is chonkier, (more granular) pixels on the desktop at anything larger than 27" at a desk in my experience, and obviously has a lot less desktop/app real-estate with the resolution difference at 2560x1440 vs 3840x2160 for larger screens.



A 27 inch 1440p screen viewed at your central human viewing angle, where the screen isn't pushed into your periphery, would be 60 to 50 degree viewing angle.
27" 1440p at 60 deg, 21 inch view distance = ~ 43 PPD
27" 1440p at 50 deg, 25 inch view distance = ~ 51 PPD

I used to use a 32" 1440p screen which was quite chonky pixel wise, so I started using it at 30"+ away (49 degrees or less viewing angle width) - so that I'd get 53 PPD.

I use larger 4k screens at around 38" to 48" view distance. 43 inch and 48 inch 4k screens, so getting 68 to 82 PPD, usually something like 70 - 77 PPD overall on the 48" screen.

To me, 60 PPD is a minimum now, if I have a choice anyway.

The 4k screens are a big upgrade compared to lower resolution screens, and provide a lot more desktop/app real-estate.

Really high PPD using 8k on smaller screens would be great for things like text aliasing and for very high resolution image work. As it is, we have to apply text-sub sampling (and graphics anti-aliasing in games) to try to mask how large the pixel structures actually appear. There is usually no AA edge hacks/masks for desktop apps and imagery though, outside of viewport AA in a few cgi authoring suites perhaps. However that's not what some of us are interested in 8k for primarily. It's more about getting somewhat higher PPD than 4k but getting a lot more desktop/app real-estate. In fact some of us would like to be able to run 4k, 5k, 6k, and 7680x2160 super-ultrawide resolutions on an 8k screen for gaming, while still having a mult-monitor like user environment at high ppd for desktop/apps. Screens like the 4k 55" 1000R curved samsung Ark were marketed as a multi-monitor replacement, but with quad of 1080p screens, 1080p "screens" are not a true modern multi-monitor replacement. A large 8k screen has quadrants of 4k resolution essentially, or cookie-cuttered up into whatever desktop/app tile layouts you design.

 

[BrainEater]

I've had a chance to play around a little, I can expand on my review.
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- The upsampling is fantastic. I have cable TV / Prime / Netflix. Any 1080P source will properly fullscreen and looks like 4k, 720p not so much. My 4k .mkv's look like 4k. A 4k blu-ray however looks much better than 4k. The Divx rips , well....they are Divx rips.
- The TiZen os is the first TV os not to choke when I plug in one of my 2TB media drives. Works flawlessly. I intend to test this with a larger SSD.
-The 'diffraction grating' rainbow reflection is quite real, but only for direct light sources. Diffuse lighting doesn't really do it, it's no issue.
-Side view has zero color difference, looks fantastic from a huge angle.
-The resolution really is stunning. Here's an 8k wallpaper ;



So that picture looks fantastic from my 10 foot viewing distance. Then you stand up and walk over to the TV, and you can count the fallen trees and logs on the beach on the far side of that lake !!
Stunning is the best word I have, it's really quite something.
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PC connection is on the way, gotta upgrade the 1070's.
Haha

 

[GoldenTiger]

PC connection is on the way, gotta upgrade the 1070's.

Just overclock them, it'll be fine! Thanks for your impressions, they're fun to read even though I'm sure I won't get to play with this tech for a few years .

 

[elvn]

I've had a chance to play around a little, I can expand on my review.
----
- The upsampling is fantastic. I have cable TV / Prime / Netflix. Any 1080P source will properly fullscreen and looks like 4k, 720p not so much. My 4k .mkv's look like 4k. A 4k blu-ray however looks much better than 4k. The Divx rips , well....they are Divx rips.

Prob depends on the mkv. You can rip a blu-ray with lossless compression rate even though it is compressed and takes up less space (the main title tracks compared alone I mean - you can omit extra disc stuff you don't need). I doubt there would be a difference between the two sources if that were the case. Might also depend on what device you are playing them from though, and what chips, settings, capabilities, etc that playback device has.

. . . .

There is also the fact that if when playing from a pc the pc remains in rgb mode (4:4:4), then it might look different than 4:2:0 that uhd set top boxes will play, as all 4k movies are 4:2:0. PC mode on TVs won't have the same picture processing enabled either, so you'd have to make sure you switched modes if playing from a pc, and that all of the hdmi color settings were the same, etc. in order to make an apples to apples comparison. Of course you could have meant your were comparing a full 4k uhd disc ripped to a pc while remaining in it's uhd file+folder format too, where both 4k uhd "bluray" file+folders and mkv were both played from the same rig.

Sounds great for up close media playback. That's great to hear , but I'm personally still very curious about what it can do for gaming. I wouldn't put the burden of testing/proving any gaming specs on anyone though, especially details on what 240hz 4k mode is capable of. Hopefully RTings will do a full detailed review at some point.

. .

I've been using this device for playback, but on a 77" 4k C1 OLED.

A little overkill but I had run a 2019 nvidia shield for playback for a long time and I really wanted to upgrade. The Dune Pro 8k player has it's own AI upscaling so with the 900D you'd prob be paying for AI upscaling/machine learning twice, once for the premium price of the 900D, and once for the premium price of the Dune 8k pro. Idk if there would be any improvement or detriment from enabling the AI-upscaling/machine-learning on both, but that might also depend on what source you were upgrading from to the Dune Pro 8k.

I bought the Dune Pro 8k player on a splurge to upgrade from my shield 2019. (They make a smaller non-pro model too, and some 4k models). The player I got is more modern, more powerful hardware and AI upscaling than my shield had, and unlike the shield, the Dune has the AV1 chip for youtube HDR playback.

https://www.dune-hd.com/products/dune-hd-pro-one-8k-plus

 

[LukeTbk]

Idk if there would be any improvement or detriment from enabling the AI-upscaling/machine-learning on both, but that might also depend on what source you were upgrading from to the Dune Pro 8k.

Once you send 8k to the tv, would any TV upscaling occur ? (that could be the danger of using a computer and setting a desktop resolution to 8k), blocking the tv to do its things.

 

[elvn]

Once you send 8k to the tv, would any TV upscaling occur ? (that could be the danger of using a computer and setting a desktop resolution to 8k), blocking the tv to do its things.

I was talking about 4k media, specifically responding to him saying that 4k mkv weren't upscaled appreciably but 4k "blu-ray" uhd disc material was. You can rip a 4k uhd disc and compress it only so much so that it's lossless when decompressed, so it could depend on the quality/compression amount of the source mkv. You can have types and ratios of compression that are lossless in mkv, FLAC etc. You can also rip an entire 4k uhd disc to a hard drive 1:1, but that would be a waste of space unless you like the menus and a lot of extras that aren't the actual movie/tv show.

I'm pretty sure game mode / PC RGB (444) gets no AI~machine learning upscaling even of 4k material, for example a 4k game at whatever 240hz system the 900D uses. It probably just uses normal TV scaling, though that might be high quality on the 900D. I doubt a 8k PC signal would get any AI/machine learning upscaling. No reason to, it's already 8k. For example, 8k desktop space.

Personally I have no interest in 60hz gaming, so unless the future nvidia 5000 series, unlike current gpus, can allot the bandwidth to do 8k 120hz on hdmi 2.1 with DSC - and the 900D is capable of that on it's end (not determined either), 8k gaming rather than 4k "240hz" upscaled" would not be interesting to me. Plus, if the 4k "240Hz" upscaled looks detailed and performs really well without major cons, why bother playing at native 8k? I'm still interested in exactly how that "4k 240hz" works, and in comparisons of default 4k gaming vs DLSS+framegen gaming, etc. It would also be great if samsung did a 7680x2160 super ultrawide mode at 120hz to 240hz like their g95nc can.

 

[LukeTbk]

I was talking about 4k media, specifically responding to him saying that 4k mkv weren't upscaled appreciably but 4k "blu-ray" uhd disc material was.

That what I also had in mind, a 4k mkv played say with Mpc from a PC if one had set the desktop resolution to 8k, the computer will have done the upscaling and send an 8k signal to the television, would it know that the video was previously in 4k and do anything to it ? I guess people already od that and do not set the pc to 8k ?

I'm pretty sure game mode / PC RGB (444) gets no AI~machine learning upscaling even of 4k material, for example a 4k game at whatever 240hz system the 900D uses. It probably just uses normal TV scaling, though that might be high quality on the 900D. I doubt a 8k PC signal would get any AI/machine learning upscaling. No reason to, it's already 8k. For example, 8k desktop space.

a ok that answer the question... if the 4k look better than before, nothing to do with the resolution just raw better tv.

 

[elvn]

That what I also had in mind, a 4k mkv played say with Mpc from a PC if one had set the desktop resolution to 8k, the computer will have done the upscaling and send an 8k signal to the television, would it know that the video was previously in 4k and do anything to it ? I guess people already od that and do not set the pc to 8k ?


a ok that answer the question... if the 4k look better than before, nothing to do with the resolution just raw better tv.

Braineater was probably talking about 4k sources that aren't PCs, and in any case NOT running PC/gaming RGB-444 modes on the tv for that material. That would probably give AI/machine learning upscaling processing by the tv. If you sent a full 4k signal to the tv in one of those TV modes it would probably upscale it. He actually owns the tv though so he could probably comment better. I just know from how 4k tv game mode/PC mode / RGB-444 works on most tvs, where it doesn't get all of the bells and whistles picture-processing wise that the media modes do.

In your mkv played on pc example, you might be better off outputting 4k from the pc while doing that, or setting the player to switch to 4k when fullscreen, and swapping to a media picture mode on the tv - - so that the 900D would use it's own upscaling that the owner paid a hefty premium for.

 

[BrainEater]

Bang on elvn.
Right now I have cable tv including netflix/prime etc, all through the Denon receiver. Additionally, a 4k blu-ray player, and then a media drive plugged into the tv, or the blu-ray player. (the blu-ray player does a better job of handling media drives)
The blu-ray does 4:2:0, same as sportsnet4k, and the TV seems to upscale really well ! That's all I know so far.
I have not checked the "HD" channel specs yet but they also really upscale well.

I do agree the .MKV's etc would probably play better via PC.

LukeTbk : yep, there very much is " just better " TV in there, it's bleeding edge forsure.

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I have no PC to receiver connection yet.

I need a 35 foot HDMI 2.1 cable, and a new 4090. I can get the 4090 tomorrow, was kinda waiting on 5000 series, but...
The cable is also an issue. I see these 'fiberoptic' hybrid cables, cant seem to find copper ones. It's a work in progress.

Any thought's on these hybrid cables?



edit !
As I was typing this, I got the call. My Canon R5-C body is in.
8k on the way. Gonna hafta learn how to ski with a full camera again.

 

[Sycraft]

I need a 35 foot HDMI 2.1 cable, and a new 4090. I can get the 4090 tomorrow, was kinda waiting on 5000 series, but...
The cable is also an issue. I see these 'fiberoptic' hybrid cables, cant seem to find copper ones. It's a work in progress.

Any thought's on these hybrid cables?

You can't have copper cables that do 48gbps at that range. It is just beyond the spec of what we can make it handle. So you have to go fiber. Good news is fiber optic works great at that distance. The hybrid ones work fine, that's what I use at home and we heavily use at work. The one I use at home and I can confirm works well at FRL5/40gbps (the max my receiver supports) is this one. Works even over long distances, 65ft in my case, which not all will. It also has results from people with professional validators that says it works at full speed. This one is cheaper and many people report it works well. I had good luck with it at FRL6/48gbps over a 10m distance, but when I moved and needed a longer one it did not work reliably at 20m.

Another option if you want is a pure fiber optic cable. This costs more, but does work over longer distances (not a concern in your case) and is able to be run through the walls. What you do is just run MPO fiber optic cable, the stuff that's used in enterprise networks, and then it has converters on each end. Fiber Command is who we've used, though others probably make them and they work well. They also make DisplayPort versions, and other things (like USB and ethernet) that can go over the same fiber since HDMI needs only 6 of the 12 fibers an MPO cable has. If I was going to do wall-jacks and in-wall cables, this is how I'd do it. More expensive though, and also needs power on both ends.

 

[elvn]

I have these fiber hdmi cables. Bought them so I could run my 165hz laptop to a 120hz 4k C1 OLED TV from farther away. They seem to work great. I had to go through a lot of different product reviews to find ones that seemed to work as advertised for higher hz. The better ones seem to go out of stock a lot.

I got the 33 ft version of this
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0BVYT1FGF

and 15 ft version of this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B091GMSYC9/

. . .

I don't have this one but it has reports of working at 4k 120hz. ymmv

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09TN7GTYT/

 

[BrainEater]

Thank you so much Sycraft, elvn !!

There is a sea of HDMI 2.1 hybrid fiber cables, Thanks for the recommends !!
The cables really matter with this setup I found. I had medium quality 4k cables everywhere, when I hooked up the Denon/Samsung 8k routes, they were not good enough....spots/no HDR/funky dropouts. Certified 8k cables fixed everything.
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I have taken some 8k photo's and a 15 second 8k30 video with the new Canon R5.
Photos are as expected, flawless victory.
The 8k30 video won't play yet on mr. TeeVee, looks like I'll need to run it through Premier, it's a version/codec thing. Workin on it !!

 

[BrainEater]

Pics or shens, here's a pic from my back yard.
hehe !!




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The raw size of this image is 8192x5464 pixels......over 8k (44.8 megapixels)

 

[Nobu]

Pics or shens, here's a pic from my back yard.
hehe !!


View attachment 663979

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The raw size of this image is 8192x5464 pixels......over 8k (44.8 megapixels)

2000x1334 on [H] servers. Will have to host elsewhere to show off the 8k goodness.

 

[BrainEater]

Yea dammit......took so long to upload I thought it got it, just resampling I guess.

Try this ;

8k garden.JPG

Works for me, sorry for the crappy focus, freehand.....I'm learning you can't really do that with this camera without setting changes.

 

[Nobu]

Yea dammit......took so long to upload I thought it got it, just resampling I guess.

Try this ;

8k garden.JPG

Works for me, sorry for the crappy focus, freehand.....I'm learning you can't really do that with this camera without setting changes.

Yeah, think XenForo scales and compresses large images to save space in the database, except maybe webp and other odd formats (but you're limited by file size for them, I think).

 

[elvn]

you can prob google drive it or other service that sees it as a file rather than an image, and/or Zip it up if necessary even if not compressing it zip-wise. . as long as there aren't file size limitations on the service/server.

 

[elvn]

Yea dammit......took so long to upload I thought it got it, just resampling I guess.

Try this ;

8k garden.JPG

Works for me, sorry for the crappy focus, freehand.....I'm learning you can't really do that with this camera without setting changes.

Looks good.


We do garden stuff here too, which is where a lot of my time and resources have been spent lately.

 

[BrainEater]

Nice !

The 9 bark is pretty ratty, have not had time.
-------

I'm going back out to take pics with tripod/remote. I am also looking at a good macro lens for the r5, but i'm not sure I have any piggybank left.....heh

 

[BrainEater]

So related to the garden, I have an 8k video to shoot.

.
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In the last while, these little buggers have made a nest right next to my BBQ.
More to come once I think about the logistics of the shoot.



edit ; I have a 35 foot HDMI 2.1 cable enroute, prolly pick up a new video card this weekend.
PC to TV coming.

 

[improwise]

Sorry to disturb with some info about the TV

KGs review is out


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1QVMLO7zhI

 

[BrainEater]

Nice ! The title says it all.
The upsampling is something else. I watched Escape from New York from a HD cable source, it was like I've never seen the movie.

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I have ordered a 35 foot (exact length basically) HDMI 2.1 cable, on the way. I pick up my 4090 tomorrow.
I should have 8k feed from computer to receiver to TV in a few days. The Olympics start Friday, hopefully I'm watching 8k.

Any basic tests anyone wants once I get the comp-receiver-tv link done ?
I don't really game anymore (where the hell is 8K portal ?), but I'm certainly willing to do some tests !
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I'm sorry but no joy on "Kill-It-With-Fire" 8k movie about the yellowjackets. The escape path was where the camera had to go, thought better of it.

 

[elvn]

Not expecting any high end testing, (or any testing at all from BrainEater, no sweat) - but I am curious to see if anyone capable of getting 240hz 4k, even on older/simpler games, might be able to give a general impression of the input lag and whether it seems like 240fpsHz motion definition and blur reduction. Also if there are any artifacts or anomalies, tearing, detail lost.

However, you'd prob have to have gamed on a decent 240fpsHz 4k monitor, maybe 4k 240hz oled, to really have a basis for even a general comparison. 240Hz 4k motion definition, motion clarity(blur reduction, any artifacts/scaling issues, and how the 240hz 4k mapped to 8k screen space (in gaming mode) quality looks compared to a native 4k screen (at the same PPD view distance wise, farther for the 8k, nearer for the 4k until they were the same perceived "size" to your perspective. People typically view pc gaming screens at around 50 to 60 deg viewing angle though it can vary depending on the person.

https://qasimk.io/screen-ppd/

I'm still eagerly awaiting an in depth review from RTings, which I hope will show up at some point. The 900C was released in June 2023 and RTings reviewed it near the end of december 2023 (~ 7months later). The 900D was released late March 2024 and it's now July 24th, 2024 (~5 months later so far).



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I'm interested in impressions of 4k 240hz mode on 8k 900D compared to a native 240hz 4k screen (32" 4k 240hz oled for example) :

. . motion definition (more dots per dotted line curve, more unique animations in a flip book flipping faster)

. . motion clarity (blur reduction, how badly the viewport movement blurs the whole game world when mouse-looking, movement-keying, controller panning at speed in 1st/3rd person games)

. . artifacting / tearing, FALD fluctuation, etc. on desktop/pc and gaming modes (anomalies from 4k 240hz mode, scaling, motion at speed).

. . scaling quality (quality compared to gaming at 4k on 4k 240hz native screens at the same PPD ~ perceived screen size in regard to viewing distance, and compared to 8k native on the 900D as a measuring point. Better/worse/equivalent to 4k native on a 4k screen? how much worse than 8k native? (Just rendering/mapping wise for comparison's sake, not fpsHz/motion quality wise where 8k would only be 60fpsHz).

. .

. .

Other than that -

- general uniformity on the desktop as well as if any egregious contrast drop (black lift, bright color dimming) on the periphery of bright vs dark areas.

- FALD fluctuation in media modes while scenes are moving/panning

- artifacting with AI upscaling of 4k to 8k material

- artifacting with dialed in motion interpolation/motion smoothing levels in media modes for movies/action etc.


- ABL brightness drop reflex in very bright HDR scenes. How distractiing, how frequent generally. (It's not just OLEDs - very bright FALD LED (LCD) displays that lack vented thicker housings and active cooling can suffer from aggressive ABL).



. . . .

This is a greatly exaggerated set of screenshots from a youtube review. The shots show the lower contast perimeters of opposing brightness/darkness areas on a pro art monitor. Blacks and darker areas are lifted around bright areas, and in some scenes the brightest peaks of color are lost (when near dark areas). In both cases, paling/muting what should be displayed if it were uniform, and losing some detail.

In these shots, the effect is exaggerated greatly by the iso of the camera and probably some by the screenshot/image compression, but it gives an idea of where the FALD zones on some high nit HDR screens will lift or mute things. Notably the black areas surrounding lit characters and ship architectures in the matrix scenes, etc. Obviously it's not near that extreme as pictured here in person but it shows where the contrast drops to 3000:1 to 5000:1 typically on fald screens, and where blooming occurs "outside of the lines".

Its the nature of FALD technology, but some screens do it worse than others, and some suffer from distracting amount of FALD fluctuation in moving scenes. Also, some previous samsung gens had much wider # of zones affected and slower transitions when in game mode than in media modes, so that would be something to look out for.

.

.

.

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fluctuating elevation

.

.

.

. . . . . . . . . .

.

 

[BrainEater]

Awesome elvn !!
I will help ! I'm so shocked by how nice this TV is I want to make everyone aware !
We'll start with Q3 and work up. I'll definitely need help with testing protocols.
I'm curious too !
---------

It's on :

Asus 4090 OC white edition into the edit rig....


--------
Finding cables and installing.

 

[elvn]

I'm not expecting anything too detailed but some general impressions of some of those factors would be of interest. especially if by way of comparison. (but I don't have a native 4k 240hz screen to compare to anything myself so not expecting that). Really anything you can contribute or that stands out to you from your personal experience would be appreciated, you don't have to make a job of it.

Rtings will hopefully publish a detailed review within the next 3 months. they have a lot of hardware and expertise, and a lot of other monitors they've reviewed with detailed scores and specs in their database to compare things to. They released their 900C review around 7 months after it got released, and we are around 5 months out from when the 900D was released now.

 

[improwise]

Is there a way to set where windows default appear on screen (for windows that you have not previously configured with Fancy Zones or similar)? The downside of using an 8K monitor without scaling is that some programs tend to throw out windows, dialogs etc. in places where you just don't see them. Have happened numerous times that I get frustrated about something like an installation taking for ever, only to find out that it might have thrown out a dialog that I just didn't see as it was FAR from the middle of the screen

 

[elvn]

Is there a way to set where windows default appear on screen (for windows that you have not previously configured with Fancy Zones or similar)? The downside of using an 8K monitor without scaling is that some programs tend to throw out windows, dialogs etc. in places where you just don't see them. Have happened numerous times that I get frustrated about something like an installation taking for ever, only to find out that it might have thrown out a dialog that I just didn't see as it was FAR from the middle of the screen

That also happens when things get buried behind windows occasionally so can be hard to avoid.

Displayfusion allows you to set up virtual monitor spaces. I utilize the windows sizing/placement and routines from stream deck plugins and some displayfusion functions rather than using virtual monitor spaces myself though. Theoretically, you could set up a central monitor space for your installs. I'd assume as long as you launched the app from that virtual monitor, that the notifications and windows would appear in that virtual monitor space - but I can't confirm that at the moment.

With displayfusion, I believe that you can hotkey your virtual monitor layouts too. So you could swap between two or more layouts depending what you wanted to do at any given time.

The main limitation with displayfusion's virtual monitor spaces is that if you set an app to full-screen (by clicking the fullscreen window frame control, hotkeys, stream deck actions, or whatever), it disregards the virtual space and goes to the full screen space of the physical monitor. Some people complain about that but I can use window sizing+placement plugins/functions with my stream deck, and there are even displayfusion functions you can tie in that toggle window borders and title bars on and off. So I can get the same effect as making a window full screen in a specific tile/area of the screen without actually using the app's full screen toggle.

====================================

You could try one of these three batch installer methods. Even if you are only installing one app, they should be able to install it so you might have better luck knowing that it's finished installing by looking at the batch installer method's window.

Table of contents

00:00 Intro

00:43 Winget bulk install apps

04:23 Winstall.app batch install apps

06:46 Dev Home install multiple apps

08:38 Closing

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUXDeD3AuM8

Also available here: https://pureinfotech.com/install-multiple-apps-winget-windows/



For example, this is from installing things using dev home:

. . . . . . .


Note that some people complain that they have a hard time removing the Dev Home app from microsoft, and as always, use anything at your own risk.

Here are some quotes from the dev home review page on what some people had to resort to in order to uninstall it, in case you do decide to try to use it and have any difficulty:

. . . . .

open powershell and type: Get-AppxPackage -AllUsers -PackageTypeFilter Bundle -Name “*Windows.DevHome*” | Remove-AppxPackage -AllUsers

. . . . ..

UNINSTALL NOTE: - Apparently some users have run the powershell command to uninstall and the damn thing has just come back. - Go to Apps > Installed Apps in settings - Scroll to 'System Components' - Click the ... next to 'Dev Home - Choose Advanced Options - Choose 'Never' for 'Let this run in background' - Click 'Terminate' to kill it I didn't remember installing this (seems like others don't either). Brand new machine this week. I have the Intel Core Ultra 9 and so for this piece of junk to be using 10% of my CPU it's absolutely insane. I can't even see how to uninstall it. Bad enough I had to edit an XML file yesterday to remove Xbox from my task bar (I play precisely zero games) but this is so much worse. I have no extensions. I have no widgets. The damn thing isn't even open it's still using 10% CPU and affecting my benchmarks. What kind of developer is this for? Why can't I uninstall it.

. . .
end quotes
. . . .



Personally, I'd try using revo uninstaller too, if I had an issue.

Incidentally, I had no issue with dev home so far. In this system monitor screenshot, it shows that it's using a little ram, but I didn't tie it to github or anything as of yet so it's not monitoring anything actively right now. I also terminated it and it didn't pop back up or anything like that.

There are some other neat things dev home can do , for devs mainly, and some things involving github if you use that a lot, but I'm assuming if you keep any widgets or anything that have active monitoring, it is probably going to use some system resources. I'd prob just use hwinfo64 for that kind of thing (which can also be tied to rainmeter widgets if you really wanted to).

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwOg3nQ7a1A

=========================================


I sometimes don't even realize or forget to look for the fact that there is a uac prompt I have to click allow on to even begin an install, where the UAC prompt is buried beneath other window(s), which can still happen with the bulk install utilities by the way - so I get where you are coming from.

 

[BrainEater]

Woooop !

8k/60/HDR10 video from PC to TV is finally working !
Truly something to behold, once again, stunning.
Just watching youtube demo loops at the moment, trying to find 8k Olympic streams.....typing this on monitor 2, TV is monitor 3 running the 8k demos right now.
-------
It's definitely not plug-n-play. Heh.
The first 15 times I tried, it hardlocked my machine.

Here's what I've learned about it;
1) Don't use the windoze 'display properties' to adjust for 8k. You must use Nvidia control panel. All other resolutions work via the windows one, but not 8k.
2) The Denon 8k receiver had a manual 8k setting that was not obvious, took some time to discover.
3) Overlays don't work on the TV in 8k mode properly : both the tv and the receiver have overlays for displaying information about things, like resolution, etc.....it should 'overlay' on the video that's playing (and does in lower resolutions). In 8k, the info comes up, but the video drops.
4) Even Nvidia control panel seems to lose the 8k settings sometimes, generally related to 'multiple displays', workin on it.
---------

It's a beautiful display.
There is some work to be done, but wow !!

 

[elvn]

Woooop !

8k/60/HDR10 video from PC to TV is finally working !
Truly something to behold, once again, stunning.
Just watching youtube demo loops at the moment, trying to find 8k Olympic streams.....typing this on monitor 2, TV is monitor 3 running the 8k demos right now.
-------
It's definitely not plug-n-play. Heh.
The first 15 times I tried, it hardlocked my machine.

Here's what I've learned about it;
1) Don't use the windoze 'display properties' to adjust for 8k. You must use Nvidia control panel. All other resolutions work via the windows one, but not 8k.
2) The Denon 8k receiver had a manual 8k setting that was not obvious, took some time to discover.
3) Overlays don't work on the TV in 8k mode properly : both the tv and the receiver have overlays for displaying information about things, like resolution, etc.....it should 'overlay' on the video that's playing (and does in lower resolutions). In 8k, the info comes up, but the video drops.
4) Even Nvidia control panel seems to lose the 8k settings sometimes, generally related to 'multiple displays', workin on it.
---------

It's a beautiful display.
There is some work to be done, but wow !!

Don't forget, depending how hold your receiver is, you could opt to send the nvidia signal directly to the TV itself, then use eARC hdmi sound output from the tv's eARC labeled HDMI port out to the receiver. That way, you wouldn't be passing any video at all through the receiver, which is cleaner than pass-through modes or any processing, filtering, or in some cases lag a receiver could apply.

I'd definitely try putting video direct to the TV for the pc overlays etc., but that would omit the receiver's overlays/on-screen-info entirely obviously since you aren't piping any video signal to or from the receiver at all in that scenario. That's a good thing imo, unless it's a device that needs DTS or something and your TV doesn't support DTS on it's eARC (like some LG OLEDs).

While both methods will give you full uncompressed HDMI format sound (piping both video+audio through a receiver /OR/ video direct to TV + eARC out to receiver) - DTS audio playback is the only reaon I put video through my receiver for some devices, mainly in my living room TV setup, with things like a nvidia shield 2019 for the last several years. However I recently upgraded to a "Dune Pro One 8k" android player which supports AV1 for youtube HDR where the nvidia 2019 does not.


. . . . .

Note that even with an older reciever, there are some devices available that adapt eARC to a regular HDMI input on an older receiver. I have one called a shARC.

 

[pendragon1]

trying to find 8k Olympic streams..

everything i could find about that is its OTA, not online.

 

[BrainEater]

everything i could find about that is its OTA, not online.

Over what air ? hehe

--------

My receiver is a Denon AVRX1800H, fully setup for 8k. I do run optical from the tv back to the receiver, running straight to the TV was how I got it working at first.
Everything is working now, but I'm still playing around a bit.

 

[BrainEater]

So the "forgets' thing happens everytime when plugged into the receiver.
As soon as the receiver controlling the 8k shuts off, Nvidia control panel loses all multimonitor profiles.....I get this ;


----
Not a biggie really, just need to recheck those boxes, but it's abnormal compared to other resolutions.
Gonna go back to straight into the TV and see if it's different.

 

[Sycraft]

So the "forgets' thing happens everytime when plugged into the receiver.
As soon as the receiver controlling the 8k shuts off, Nvidia control panel loses all multimonitor profiles.....I get this ;

View attachment 669103
----
Not a biggie really, just need to recheck those boxes, but it's abnormal compared to other resolutions.
Gonna go back to straight into the TV and see if it's different.

I think that's an HDMI "feature" mine does that too. If the receiver turns off, the display is "unplugged" and when a display is unplugged Windows takes it away and reconfigures the screen to how it was before it was plugged in. Works well for laptops, not so much for this. I use Monitor Profile Switcher to deal with it. I just have hotkeys for desktop screen and TV screen.

May not work for your usage since it sounds like it is a little different than mine, but might help.

 

[elvn]

So the "forgets' thing happens everytime when plugged into the receiver.
As soon as the receiver controlling the 8k shuts off, Nvidia control panel loses all multimonitor profiles.....I get this ;

View attachment 669103
----
Not a biggie really, just need to recheck those boxes, but it's abnormal compared to other resolutions.
Gonna go back to straight into the TV and see if it's different.

That's one of the reasons why I never did the "ghost"/"phantom" monitor thing back in the day, which people would do to avoid passing video through a receiver for hdmi sound from a pc back before arc/eARC was available.

It would always screw up my window management software's x,y positions when the AVR (receiver) would turn on/off, sometimes on boot/reboot etc too. There was also a limit to how small you could make the "virtual" avr screen, so it was hidden space on your desktop somewhere even if dragged to an off angle layout wise. It was too messy of a workaround for me.

Displayfusion lets you hotkey monitor arrangements though (web page: displayfusion - working with monitor profiles , brief youtube vid: displayfusion- monitor profiles ), and virtual monitor space layouts (web page: displayfusion - monitor splits , brief youtube vid: displayfusion - configuring monitor splits ), global saved window position profiles, (among a ton of other stuff it can do) so that is another option potentially.

I wouldn't put the video through the receiver at all from a pc myself, just output the sound from the tv (to the receiver) if possible. However, if running sound out from the tv, hdmi eARC is required if you want to get full uncompressed hdmi audio formats. You could still run toslink/optical out from a tv though, it'll just compress some stuff. I also use a toggle button on my stream deck to toggle between my nvidia hdmi sound output to the tv and my USB dac+headphones, which is one of the reasons the "phantom" display method was crap (I could never turn my receiver off or it would screw up my multi-monitor array).


You could probably run eARC from a different screen in a multi-monitor setup too, as long as the other screens have hdmi 2.1's eARC, for example if you have other gaming tvs in your array.

Putting video through a receiver is just going to complicate things imo. I only do it on one AVR input for external player on my LG TVs so that I can get DTS sound for DVD/older BRay format titles.

 

[elvn]

Is there a way to set where windows default appear on screen (for windows that you have not previously configured with Fancy Zones or similar)? The downside of using an 8K monitor without scaling is that some programs tend to throw out windows, dialogs etc. in places where you just don't see them. Have happened numerous times that I get frustrated about something like an installation taking for ever, only to find out that it might have thrown out a dialog that I just didn't see as it was FAR from the middle of the screen

A follow up to my other reply.

You could use Dev Home or similar to launch your installer(s), and you could use displayfusion to make that install launcher (e.g. dev home) window always on top

. . . . . . . . . . . .

Displayfusion - how to "Toggle Window Always on Top"

Settings > Functions tab, click the "Toggle Window Always on Top" function in the list. Then click Edit to assign a key combination to it, or "Toggle TitleBar Button" to add it to the caption bar of every window.






It will make a little push-pin icon that indicates if it's "pinned down" or not if you enable the titlebar buttons, but you can just assign a hotkey instead (and link that to a stream deck button if you have one).

Click the bar column on that row to make it show in the title bar, and click "enable TitleBar Buttons" checkbox at the bottom

Edit: You can also pin things using deskpins app, autohotkey(script), etc. https://www.howtogeek.com/196958/ways-to-make-a-window-always-on-top-on-windows/

 

[BrainEater]

I think that's an HDMI "feature" mine does that too.......

I'd agree, but in the old days, I'd shutoff my computer to unplug/plugin monitors, so I've never really noticed.
I think It's actually 'windows multi-monitor' that's got the issues ....the Nvidia multimonitor is a copy of that.

I've run dual monitors since a 15" CRT was the latest thing, there's always unique quirks to every setup.
25 years later, it still doesn't always work ;



That screenshot is of monitor 1, and monitor 2 is to the right of it, as pictured.
Please note the window underneath mostly into 'monitor 3'(to the left, the 8k tv) which aint there.

It has improved over the decades, we'll get it right eventually.

 

[HA5]

I know there are a few 65" 8K TVs.
I don't think there are any 55" 8K TVs anymore, right?
Are there any 60" 8K TVs or anything less than 65"? I searched rtings.com, and I don't see any.
Are any coming?

 

[elvn]

I know there are a few 65" 8K TVs.
I don't think there are any 55" 8K TVs anymore, right?
Are there any 60" 8K TVs or anything less than 65"? I searched rtings.com, and I don't see any.
Are any coming?

I don't think they are bothering making smaller 8k TVs because 8k has more appreciable detail gain, for media, only when the pixels sizes of a 4k screen start to be perceived as large enough (view distance vs screen size. .. measured as PPD). A smaller TV in a living room, where typical view distances are a lot farther than pc use for various reasons layout and quality-of-life wise, would already get high PPD (high perceived pixel density, tiny looking pixels) even with a 4k screen, though at a narrower viewing angle.

https://qasimk.io/screen-ppd/


. . . . .

The 900D is the only 8k I'd be interested in from this gen's 8k offerings (even if I wait long to get a somewhat reduced price). I'm interested that is, if the 900D's 240Hz 4k upscaled to 8k performs really well overall compared to a 32" 4k 240hz gaming monitor. Otherwise I'd probably wait until hopefully someday 4k gaming tvs get 240hz on hdmi 2.1. The 8k desktop/app real-estate would be missed if I stuck with 4k, so I'd use multiple 4k screens like I am now if that were the case, and suffer the bezels.

I'm not aware of any smaller 8k's other than a gaming oriented one and a professional media/art based one, both 32" 8k asus monitors, that hdtvtest showed from CES, and I guess TCL is making a 5000nit HDR 27" 8k too if you look it up. The asus pro one is pretty expensive, idk about the TCL one. If those are being made, there will potentially be some other small 8k monitors eventually. Personally, I'm not interested in smaller monitors anymore for my main pc gaming rig. While I'd love a 1000R curved 55" 8k if one existed, I could make a flat 65" 8k work at around 4' away or so on it's own stand. A 65" 8k is like a quad of 30" 4k monitors, minus middling bezels.

The human central viewing angle is around 60 to 50 degrees, before the screen gets pushed father into your periphery. However, when using an 8k for desktop/app real-estate more like a multi-monitor setup (or for gaming immersion setting an 8k 16:9 to an ultra-wide resolution letterboxed perhaps, or playing other smaller windowed games/letterboxed games) , you can get away with sitting a little closer, with a fatter viewing angle width.

A 65" 8k screen set back from an island PC desk+perhipherals, with the screen on it's own slim rail-spine style tv stand (or wall mounted, etc.) gets these values listed below for horizontal viewing angle and PPD (pixels per degree, a measure of percevied pixel density at distance).

For reference, remember that a 4k gets half of those PPD values at the same viewing angles, so the pixels look twice as large on a 4k.

. .

65" 8k, 42" view distance (3.5') = 68 deg viewing angle = 113 PPD

^--- wide viewing angle pushes the sides into the periphery more so it's not optimal viewing angle wise for darting eyes around, off-axis pixel uniformity issues, potentially even geometry issues. The nearer you sit from 60 - 50 deg, the more this becomes an issue.

. .

65" 8k , 49" view distance (~4') = 60 deg viewing angle = 128 PPD

^--- I'd prob aim for this, depending what I was doing on the screen at any given time.

. .


65" 8k, 61" view distance (~5') = 50 deg viewing angle = 154 PPD

^---- more than a 4' gap or so between my eyeballs and the screen surface is pushing it. I could do it, and roll my desk back up near the screen when not in use, but it's getting pretty far at that point especially depending on the room dimensions to start with. Any screen bigger than 65" probably wouldn't work for me.


===============

Like I said, in living room setups the viewer is typically viewing from much farther away and at a narrower viewing angle, so a 4k screen will already get small perceived pixel sizes, fairly high pixel density.

4k TV viewed at say 8' (96") away in a a living room seating situation, screen surface to eyeballs :

55" 4k at 8' (96") view distance = 28 deg viewing angle = 137 PPD

65" 4k 8' (96") view distance = 33 deg viewing angle = 117 PPD

77" 4k 8' (96") view distance = 39 deg viewing angle = 100 PPD

 

[HA5]

I have a 43" 4K TV as a monitor now. It's great. But, what would be even better would be 55" at the same or greater DPI. Imagine 43" 4K and making it bigger by adding pixels to make it 55" without making the pixels bigger. Higher DPI would be better because I can just scale up the UI and everything is just sharper, but it doesn't make a huge difference past a certain point. A 55" 6K would be good, but I have never heard of that. A couple 55" 8K used to exist, and I really hope they will again some day, now that we have graphics cards that can drive that many pixels.

Some people might have trouble understanding why a monitor at that size and resolution is useful because of how they use their monitor. If you always maximize all your windows, and switch between apps at full screen, then your windows on a monitor like mine are much bigger than you need. I don't maximize my windows. I keep my windows as small as I can, most of the time. The benefit of a huge monitor is not in being able to make huge windows, it's having many windows visible at the same time. I just move my eyes to switch between apps. Working this way, with the kind of work I do, saves a lot of time. So, the benefit of going from 43" to 55" with increased resolution, allows me to see maybe a few more windows at once.

I like to compare a large monitor to a large physical desktop. Having a big desk is nice because you can have a bunch of things that sit in one place and they are available there all the time without getting in the way, like my pens, note pads, lamp, USB hubs, power outlets, printer, other devices, and books or papers I'm working with at the moment. With a big desk, anything I can fit on my desktop, I don't have to dig into drawers or cabinets to get, I just look over or reach over and it's there. Same with a monitor. With a big enough monitor, I can keep my mail client visible in one spot all the time, plus messaging apps, plus several browser windows, command line terminal, IDE, calendar app. Depending on the size and resolution, there is some number of windows I can keep open and visible all the time, and I love that.