What's the truthful reason(s) for the GPU shortage?

jlbenedict

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Anyone noticed how inflated the really "used" market is also... I mean.. not talking GTX 970's' or better.. I mean worse than that.. such as GTX 950's, 770's, 660's..... R9, R7's etc... hell.. even HD 7950's, 7770's.. etc..
 

JasonPC

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It’s because even those are a step up above the gt710 or gt1030 which are selling for around $80 and $130 respectively.
 
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JasonPC

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Unless you don’t live near a microcenter. They are $70 + tax at Best Buy. Either way to me they aren’t worth $45 or $70 and you’d probably do better buying something older used.
 

lopoetve

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Unless you don’t live near a microcenter. They are $70 + tax at Best Buy. Either way to me they aren’t worth $45 or $70 and you’d probably do better buying something older used.
Eh. I've got two for servers that don't have integrated graphics of any kind. Passive, single slot, no external power - great for that.
 

JasonPC

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Eh. I've got two for servers that don't have integrated graphics of any kind. Passive, single slot, no external power - great for that.
For that purpose yes. If no integrated graphics (or additional displays needed) and low profile then your options are limited. But the original question was why are older used components in demand/pricey.
 

lopoetve

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For that purpose yes. If no integrated graphics (or additional displays needed) and low profile then your options are limited. But the original question was why are older used components in demand/pricey.
True. And that’s because there isn’t anything out there 😂
 

LeftSide

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Here's the reality...
Both Nvidia and AMD...along with their respective add-in board partners, now know how much people are willing to spend to get GPUs.
Do not expect pricing to ever return to pre-Covid levels.
Moving forward...you might find the occasional sale as OEMs replace stock for newer products.
Heck!...the AIBs may even offer you a few dollars 'off' the currently elevated price but these won't happen very often.
This is the outright greed people often refer to as... "What the market will bear"
I ******* hate that term.
It basically says... I will screw you royally...because I can.
I disagree. The most I spent on a card was $300 before the mining boom. I just bought a 3070 for $750 retail, and it didn’t even bother me, because in 4ish months I’ll have a free kick ass video card.
Price is irrelevant when these cards make so much money mining. I have several friends doing the same thing right now. We are all gamers, not professional miners. If that stops, the market will go down, guys like me will go back to the X060 level, and the high end market will go back to normal.
Mining has changed the market, its metrics now control the price of GPUs.
 

LeftSide

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We will see the same effect happen in our lifetimes with vehicles. As soon as fully autonomous vehicles are produced, the ability to make profit on a vehicle will become standard. Making your car do taxi service while you are at work, or when you are not using it during the weekends will pay for your car payment.
The price of a car will go up exponentially. You won’t be able to find one for less that $100k
 
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Red Falcon

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We will see the same effect happen in our lifetimes with vehicles. As soon as fully autonomous vehicles are produced, the ability to make profit on a vehicle will become standard. Making your car do taxi service while you are at work, or when you are not using it during the weekends will pay for your car payment.
The price of a car will go up exponentially. You won’t be able to find one for less that $100k
That's retro-futurist thinking, and while a nice thought, will never be a reality thanks the extremely high cost of insurance, licenses, permits, and other gigantic startup costs that will prevent the average person from doing so, not to mention the razor-thin profit margins making this venture only profitable en masse.
Don't get me wrong, governments and megacorps will be able to do this very thing all day long, but the average individual will almost certainly never be able to afford to do so.

Something, something Socialism is synonymous with Corporatism... just stick with profitable mining on GPUs, and enjoy it while it lasts, because it never does.
 

HAL_404

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Anyone noticed how inflated the really "used" market is also... I mean.. not talking GTX 970's' or better.. I mean worse than that.. such as GTX 950's, 770's, 660's..... R9, R7's etc... hell.. even HD 7950's, 7770's.. etc..
yup. USED GTX 770's start at $130 and GTX 970's at $250 or more. When it comes to GPU's Ebay is become a scam sight ... LOW PRICED listing are left posted by eBay that when you click on them you gat a page that says " We looked everywhere. Looks like this page is missing. If you still need help, visit our help pages" and the following one has been there at least over a week so far ... https://www.ebay.com/itm/284259752566?hash=item422f339a76:g:iXwAAOSwmrdgeQR0&LH_BIN=1
it is posted for $78.88 BIN Free shipping :ROFLMAO: and there's one that has almost 2000 WATCHERS and when you click on BIN to pay it says ... "One or more sellers can't accept payments right now. Contact the sellers for help." and it's been posted that way half past forever. I'm guessing the seller really does want your first born, or your blood.

But the listings that are the most insane (literally) are the ones that say: GIGABYTE AORUS GTX 1060 XTREME EDITION 6GB | 2.0/Backplate/RGB/VR | NO DISPLAY ... $319.90 Free Shipping

But take heart, it has a backplate

If you're into the Mass Effect Series a GT 740 4GB card (as low as $65 Used & shipped from eBay) works well @ 1080p and won't demand your first born to buy it and runs a few of the early COD titles smoothly as well as Tomb Raider (the one released March 2013). Also, Metro Redux and Last Light run well too @ 1680x1050
 
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lopoetve

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Holy shit. That's hilarious. So many random monitors that'll be for sale cheap soon :D
 

SOAREVERSOR

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Here's the reality...
Both Nvidia and AMD...along with their respective add-in board partners, now know how much people are willing to spend to get GPUs.
Do not expect pricing to ever return to pre-Covid levels.
Moving forward...you might find the occasional sale as OEMs replace stock for newer products.
Heck!...the AIBs may even offer you a few dollars 'off' the currently elevated price but these won't happen very often.
This is the outright greed people often refer to as... "What the market will bear"
I ******* hate that term.
It basically says... I will screw you royally...because I can.

Except this is not really the fault of COVID, nor is it really that new. Leave out the 3090/TItan and here are actual historical prices adjusted for inflation.

https://hexus.net/tech/news/graphic...price-history-high-end-nvidia-gpus-tabulated/

Those prices, adjusted for inflation, are consistently in the 600s-700s range, with the 8800 ultra clocking in at pretty 1000 adjusted for inflation. So we really aren't paying "more" at all, sure incomes for most people aren't keeping up, but that's another issue and is specifically related to the conservative Reaganomics that took the world in the 80s where the top 10% and really the top 1% ran away with all the loot and nobody else kept up. This isn't just graphics cards, it's everything, and those budget gurus from them have admitted their goal was to funnel all the money up to the top.

So stable prices, despite components being more complex to make, costlier, and more of them is not that bad. This is inspite of an idiotic trade war launched by the US that gooned things up, and COVID grinding manufacturing and shipping to a standstill.
 

Armenius

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yup. USED GTX 770's start at $130 and GTX 970's at $250 or more. When it comes to GPU's Ebay is become a scam sight ... LOW PRICED listing are left posted by eBay that when you click on them you gat a page that says " We looked everywhere. Looks like this page is missing. If you still need help, visit our help pages" and the following one has been there at least over a week so far ... https://www.ebay.com/itm/284259752566?hash=item422f339a76:g:iXwAAOSwmrdgeQR0&LH_BIN=1
it is posted for $78.88 BIN Free shipping :ROFLMAO: and there's one that has almost 2000 WATCHERS and when you click on BIN to pay it says ... "One or more sellers can't accept payments right now. Contact the sellers for help." and it's been posted that way half past forever. I'm guessing the seller really does want your first born, or your blood.

But the listings that are the most insane (literally) are the ones that say: GIGABYTE AORUS GTX 1060 XTREME EDITION 6GB | 2.0/Backplate/RGB/VR | NO DISPLAY ... $319.90 Free Shipping

But take heart, it has a backplate

If you're into the Mass Effect Series a GT 740 4GB card (as low as $65 Used & shipped from eBay) works well @ 1080p and won't demand your first born to buy it and runs a few of the early COD titles smoothly as well as Tomb Raider (the one released March 2013). Also, Metro Redux and Last Light run well too @ 1680x1050
If people held onto their video cards until after having a new one in hand then you wouldn't have to worry about what your gaming experience is going to be like on a GT 710.
 

harmattan

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We will see the same effect happen in our lifetimes with vehicles. As soon as fully autonomous vehicles are produced, the ability to make profit on a vehicle will become standard. Making your car do taxi service while you are at work, or when you are not using it during the weekends will pay for your car payment.
The price of a car will go up exponentially. You won’t be able to find one for less that $100k
Not "within our lifetimes": it's already happening and being securitized. There are several startups around creating specialized specialized security for institutional clients to invest in fleets and individual who lease out their EVs (soon to be automated) on a per mile basis when not in "regular" use -- and they're not the first.
 

Riptide_NVN

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Sorry, last thing I want to do is have my car become it's own uber driver and have all these freaking strangers and weirdos riding around in it. Especially without me there. I can't be alone in that.

In some ways I am happy that I won't live to see parts of the future. I think some of it will be so awesome, but then again there are going to be things that I absolutely would hate.

More towards on topic, it looks like eth gas prices have been low for four straight days now and profits are already tanking for miners. Easily half of what they were up until recently. This may be the reason for it, at least in part:
https://cryptobriefing.com/why-gas-fees-low-inside-eths-secret-bot-wars/
Going to be worse yet in July, so that should alleviate some pressure on the GPU market though I suspect it's not going to be some silver bullet to resolve the price/availability issue completely.
 

x509

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[ .. ]

More towards on topic, it looks like eth gas prices have been low for four straight days now and profits are already tanking for miners. Easily half of what they were up until recently. This may be the reason for it, at least in part:
https://cryptobriefing.com/why-gas-fees-low-inside-eths-secret-bot-wars/
Going to be worse yet in July, so that should alleviate some pressure on the GPU market though I suspect it's not going to be some silver bullet to resolve the price/availability issue completely.
Worse for whom? There is a push-pull going on here. Worse for miners = better for consumers, and of course the opposite is also true.
 
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Sorry, last thing I want to do is have my car become it's own uber driver and have all these freaking strangers and weirdos riding around in it. Especially without me there. I can't be alone in that.

In some ways I am happy that I won't live to see parts of the future. I think some of it will be so awesome, but then again there are going to be things that I absolutely would hate.

More towards on topic, it looks like eth gas prices have been low for four straight days now and profits are already tanking for miners. Easily half of what they were up until recently. This may be the reason for it, at least in part:
https://cryptobriefing.com/why-gas-fees-low-inside-eths-secret-bot-wars/
Going to be worse yet in July, so that should alleviate some pressure on the GPU market though I suspect it's not going to be some silver bullet to resolve the price/availability issue completely.
Thanks for the post. It’s good insight into how bots are hitting against bots against bots. It’s as bad as wall street
 

FrgMstr

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lopoetve

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How is MC still getting new stock of 710s. That is such a old card. Also the cheapest one at my MC is $65. I haven't seen any for 45.
The ASUS one goes on sale regularly.
The 710 is still in production; it's for servers or other systems without integrated graphics, systems that need 100% passive cooling, or (for the expensive ones), things that need specialized outputs. Mine has DVI and VGA on it still, for instance, and the second one has 3 DP ports - there are also ones with 6DP ports on it (for digital signage).
 

LeftSide

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Do you really think that is why NVIDIA is lowering the hash rates on those cards?
Oh I'm sure Nvidia is doing it mainly to push professional miners into the more profitable CMP cards, but they would be wise to try and get product into actual customer hands.

Warning the following is just anecdotal, I have no evidence only than personal experience:

Both AMD and Nvidia would be wise to try and get the market prices of these cards down to reasonable rates. The "Fortnight" Generation has really become interested in PC gaming recently. Fast refresh rate monitors, better frame rates, and faster response times have really peaked the interest of my kids friends. Just a few short years ago my kids were complaining because they couldn't play games with their friends who all owned consoles. Now all their friends are asking questions, like processor specs, monitor refresh rates, and game settings. It's crazy. They come over to the house and talk about how lucky my kids are for having a dad that gives them hand me down hardware... Intel, AMD, and Nivida have a huge opportunity here to onboard an entire new generation of PC gamers. Unfortunately none of them can afford new or even used hardware. The barrier to entry is just to high and there is a real chance these kids just go back to consoles. I think Nvidia has a lot to gain by artificially limiting mining ability, lowering market value, and reaching their target customers.
 

arnemetis

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Genie is out of the bottle though. CMP cards have no resale value, and will become e-waste in short order. Nvidia won't be able to handle this until a few generations pass with full on hardware limitations for ALL crypto activates at the die level, which I don't even know if it is possible. Alternatively they need to make their cmp cards actually desirable to miners, to the order of 3x the hash rate of a 3080 at 1/2 or less the cost. Otherwise miners will simply buy consumer cards because of resale value.
 
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x509

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Oh I'm sure Nvidia is doing it mainly to push professional miners into the more profitable CMP cards, but they would be wise to try and get product into actual customer hands.

Warning the following is just anecdotal, I have no evidence only than personal experience:

Both AMD and Nvidia would be wise to try and get the market prices of these cards down to reasonable rates. The "Fortnight" Generation has really become interested in PC gaming recently. Fast refresh rate monitors, better frame rates, and faster response times have really peaked the interest of my kids friends. Just a few short years ago my kids were complaining because they couldn't play games with their friends who all owned consoles. Now all their friends are asking questions, like processor specs, monitor refresh rates, and game settings. It's crazy. They come over to the house and talk about how lucky my kids are for having a dad that gives them hand me down hardware... Intel, AMD, and Nivida have a huge opportunity here to onboard an entire new generation of PC gamers. Unfortunately none of them can afford new or even used hardware. The barrier to entry is just to high and there is a real chance these kids just go back to consoles. I think Nvidia has a lot to gain by artificially limiting mining ability, lowering market value, and reaching their target customers.
How old are your kids? Boys? Girls?
 

yourgrandma

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Oh I'm sure Nvidia is doing it mainly to push professional miners into the more profitable CMP cards, but they would be wise to try and get product into actual customer hands.

Warning the following is just anecdotal, I have no evidence only than personal experience:

Both AMD and Nvidia would be wise to try and get the market prices of these cards down to reasonable rates. The "Fortnight" Generation has really become interested in PC gaming recently. Fast refresh rate monitors, better frame rates, and faster response times have really peaked the interest of my kids friends. Just a few short years ago my kids were complaining because they couldn't play games with their friends who all owned consoles. Now all their friends are asking questions, like processor specs, monitor refresh rates, and game settings. It's crazy. They come over to the house and talk about how lucky my kids are for having a dad that gives them hand me down hardware... Intel, AMD, and Nivida have a huge opportunity here to onboard an entire new generation of PC gamers. Unfortunately none of them can afford new or even used hardware. The barrier to entry is just to high and there is a real chance these kids just go back to consoles. I think Nvidia has a lot to gain by artificially limiting mining ability, lowering market value, and reaching their target customers.
What do they have to gain exactly? It's not like console manufactures where they'll receive a cut from every game played with their card or something. They're going to target whoever will give them the most money for the least effort in the now, like any other publicly traded company. What they are doing is a flat win/win for them even if pc gaming dips, a new normal is being put in place on the higher prices gamers are willing to pay for graphics cards anyways along with the possibly no market flood when bitcoin crashes with them focusing on mining cards.
 

FrgMstr

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Oh I'm sure Nvidia is doing it mainly to push professional miners into the more profitable CMP cards, but they would be wise to try and get product into actual customer hands.
Yes, push miners to CMP cards, but these do nothing to help the gaming GPU shortage problem, and if you think it does, you are drinking the Koolaid.

The reason these CMP cards exist, is so that when the crypto bubble bursts, all those cards used for mining will not be sold back into the gaming GPU market deflating prices. This way NVIDIA gets to sell the much higher margin CMP cards direct to miners, and keep those from impacting the secondary market later down the calendar. This way gamers get screwed twice instead of just "once" on those, and NVIDIA shovels more money into the bank.
 

Smashing Young Man

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What if the crypto bubble bursts prior to the next gen cards' release, flooding the market with used 30xx and 6xxx product? It seems like that would greatly impact sales of the next generation of GPUs.
 

Jandor

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What if the crypto bubble bursts prior to the next gen cards' release, flooding the market with used 30xx and 6xxx product? It seems like that would greatly impact sales of the next generation of GPUs.
Not really. Nextgen GPU will be on N5 or N5p and N6 (Intel). This means there will be great improvements in speed and consumption. Also Vram will use much better technology and density.
Would you buy a 350W TDP RTX 3080 and 10GB of GDDR6x at 720$ or less with price slashed or a 250W RTX 4080 with 12GB of GDDR7 1.5 times faster at the launch at 700$ or a 180W 4070 with 10GB GDDR7 at 500$ ? I bet you'll buy the new one instead of the used one. I am quite sur Nvidia and AMD knew all that. If the 7nm+ vs 7nm at TSMC and revised architecture for AMD and 8nm vs 12nm for Nvidia provided great opportunity to enhance the speed, in the next step, for once Nvidia and AMD and Intel, may use the top foundry technology of their graphics card, so that they will have another great improvement. They may probably make smaller dies and at higher speed even on less power, be more profitable, while maintaining acceptable prices. Those who are screwed are those who mine and think they will be able to resell their used graphics card for a good price.
 

x509

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[ ... ] Those who are screwed are those who mine and think they will be able to resell their used graphics card for a good price.
We can only hope so. Meaning that the crypto coin bubble bursts just after the next gen cards are available from Nvidia and AMD. And that their GPU cards start to fail before the next gen cards are available, so either they can't make any more money or have to buy replacement cards.
 
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LukeTbk

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What do they have to gain exactly? It's not like console manufactures where they'll receive a cut from every game played with their card or something. They're going to target whoever will give them the most money for the least effort in the now, like any other publicly traded company. What they are doing is a flat win/win for them even if pc gaming dips, a new normal is being put in place on the higher prices gamers are willing to pay for graphics cards anyways along with the possibly no market flood when bitcoin crashes with them focusing on mining cards.
Historically the gaming market has been more stable and a better predictor of the next year result, I imagine the reason some company like Nvidia got caught passing mining sales has gaming sales to their stockholders, all being equal they prefer sales that should repeat next Christmas than those that could stop all of the sudden if the bubble pop. How fast they reach the use market being an other metric (like FrgMstr probably an other a major incentive to make mining cards beside saving a little on the output part of the card)
 

x509

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Historically the gaming market has been more stable and a better predictor of the next year result, I imagine the reason some company like Nvidia got caught passing mining sales has gaming sales to their stockholders, all being equal they prefer sales that should repeat next Christmas than those that could stop all of the sudden if the bubble pop. How fast they reach the use market being an other metric (like FrgMstr probably an other a major incentive to make mining cards beside saving a little on the output part of the card)
I'm not sure I understand your points about Nvidia and FrgMstr.
 

LukeTbk

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I'm not sure I understand your points about Nvidia and FrgMstr.
If understand the question correctly it was, what would Nvidia gain to sales videos cards to gamers instead of miners (I didn't read carefully so I could out of touch completely)

2 reasons come to mind:
) Stockholder prefer gamers sales to miners sales (for the above stated, it is more predictive to how well the 4000 series will sales than a very chaotic market, it is very possible that the demand for cards for mining will be 5 times less in 2022, for gaming it is virtually impossible)
) Second hand market, if the crypto bubble pop, the market can get flooded of used recent card, something that do not happen with gaming sales.

That obviously is an all else being equals, if a miners buy directly or semi directly 5,000 cards skipping distribution (and the cut that goes to the best buy, amazon), consumer support and every complication and cost that come by selling card one by one instead of a container, one can still be a much better option despite the downside.
 

LeftSide

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What do they have to gain exactly? It's not like console manufactures where they'll receive a cut from every game played with their card or something. They're going to target whoever will give them the most money for the least effort in the now, like any other publicly traded company. What they are doing is a flat win/win for them even if pc gaming dips, a new normal is being put in place on the higher prices gamers are willing to pay for graphics cards anyways along with the possibly no market flood when bitcoin crashes with them focusing on mining cards.
What do they have to gain exactly? It's not like console manufactures where they'll receive a cut from every game played with their card or something. They're going to target whoever will give them the most money for the least effort in the now, like any other publicly traded company. What they are doing is a flat win/win for them even if pc gaming dips, a new normal is being put in place on the higher prices gamers are willing to pay for graphics cards anyways along with the possibly no market flood when bitcoin crashes with them focusing on mining cards.
I can’t speak for anyone else, but I didn’t stop buying graphics cards after my TNT2. In fact, I can’t think of a single example of someone who bought a gaming card and has never upgraded since. Gamers are some of the most loyal repeat customers out there. I can’t think of any other industry like it.
 
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