What's the next best step to improve my audio setup?

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Kayk

Gawd
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Jan 1, 2008
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Source: HT Omega Claro+
which is split to:
Logitech 2.1 Z-2300s
Sennheiser HD555s (modded for a better soundstage)

All the music I listen to is electronic, and encoded in FLAC or V0.

Everything is connected analog, and I'm wondering whether or not I need a headphone amplifier, or a DAC/ADC in play to further improve my setup. The reason why I'm confused is, with my HT Omega Claro+, the + in the name basically refers to the fact that my line-out is powered by an opamp (not exactly sure what this is specifically) and I paid a little extra for this little feature, and if I were to use the optical out on the card I would be missing out on this nice little premium that I paid extra for. Either way, from what I hear about the HD555s, the headphones are on the line on whether or not I need an amp for them or not, and people discussing the HD555s say it isn't necessary.

So basically, getting a DAC will skip the opamp in the line-out jack, getting a headphone amplifier doesn't appear to be necessary for my headphones, and I'm not sure whether or not an ADC is what something I need. So what do I do? Also, how can I do this without spending more than $100?
 
Get better headphones and/or speakers.

This isn't an insult, its just that where you stand right now, a DAC or a headphone amp wouldn't be the best upgrade path IMO.
 
I use my speakers for gaming and bass heavy music, and I use my headphones for appreciating sound quality, so if I were to upgrade one of them it would be the headphones. However I'm quite partial to my HD555s because they are so damn comfy and I didn't really intend to replace them, at least for another year or two. So does this mean I'm stuck until I'm willing to make 'the jump'? Assuming if I sell my HD555s and have a budget of $300, what is recommended?
 
You're not stuck by any means. The amp and the DAC will make improvements, but they will be far smaller than a headphone upgrade. Again, IMO and YMMV.
 
Yeah I'm going to have to agree with you then because that definitely makes sense given my situation.
 
AD700s are generally held to be superior to the HD555. But with the bass situation, you might want to move to a closed phone instead so you can get that off the Logitechs. An 80 ohm Beyer DT-770 perhaps.

Kayk said:
the + in the name basically refers to the fact that my line-out is powered by an opamp (not exactly sure what this is specifically) and I paid a little extra for this little feature
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Op-amp = extremely common circuit element that is used for amplifying signals among other things. Most solid state amplifiers use quite a few op-amps, especially smaller ones like those on a sound card.

I suspect that either there's more to it than that, or that you got snookered.
 
ashmedai said:
Op-amp = extremely common circuit element that is used for amplifying signals among other things. Most solid state amplifiers use quite a few op-amps, especially smaller ones like those on a sound card.

I suspect that either there's more to it than that, or that you got snookered.
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Here's the product page... http://www.htomega.com/claroplus.html

I'm not sure of the benefits myself. :eek:
 
Ah. It's not "it has an op-amp," it's, "it has a different op-amp."

ad8620.jpg


Not that they're particularly clear about why anyone should care. You'd think they'd sell it better.

They claim they're both different versions of the AD8620BR, but they probably meant that one is an AD8620AR instead. Looking at the data sheet:

http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/Data_Sheets/AD8610_8620.pdf

The only real difference is that the offset voltage specs are slightly different. AKA the BR is slightly better...at something that doesn't particularly matter for audio (see also here). 100% AA grade marketing bullshit? Unless there are other differences than the one we're focusing on...and that their product page focused on...
 
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The HD555s are acceptable compared to the logitech speakers though. I'd swap them out for something a little nicer... maybe some Creative T40's if you don't feel like spending too much - they're a great bang for your buck.
 
HD555 are nice.. not going to do better for the money unless you want to spend a lot more..Maybe if you're not feeling Sennheiser you could try something like the AKG 702? You can do better than those Logitech speakers though
 
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After a lot of digging around, I think I am going to pass down my Z-2300s to my mother, pick up a Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 system from craigslist for dirt cheap. Then, I'm going to replace my HD555s with Denon AH-D2000s. Also, I almost forgot to add that I bought a CMOY altoids amp from Ebay to power the Denons. Does this sound good?

Thanks for the suggestions guys, keep them coming.
 
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Kayk said:
After a lot of digging around, I think I am going to pass down my Z-2300s to my mother, pick up a Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 system from craigslist for dirt cheap. Then, I'm going to replace my HD555s with Denon AH-D2000s. Does this sound good?

Thanks for the suggestions guys, keep them coming.
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the Claro and Claro plus+ aren't looking to cost anything different on Google Products, so thats good to hear, and yeah I'm really not seeing one lick of difference between the two as ashmedai and 450 pointed out, who knows, at least they cost basically the same (so we can assume you didn't pay a fortune extra for more or less the same thing (oh and that review was showing performance, which should be identical, CMI8788 and all, not output quality, oh well))

anywho, I'd make sure you see the PM2.1's actually run before you buy them, make sure someone isn't trying to sell you a borked kit (yeah I really *HATE* classifieds and auction sites sometimes), as far as replacing your headphones, best advice I can give you is get up, go outside, find a retailer, and test them out, ignore all of the fluffy subjective forum rants expousing why you need XYZ over ABC (and the AH-D2000's aren't particularly hard to find at a retailer, I've got two or three shops near me that stock them)

I can tell you, they are much different than your Sennheiser HD-555s, whether or not that is good or bad in your opinion remains your opinion

if you absolutely can't/won't/aren't able to go out and test before you buy, make sure you shop somewhere with decent return policies (so you aren't stiffed 10-20% restock/can't return opened items)

-bob
 
Well, I have a guitar center near me, but I haven't taken a good look at their speakers and headsets that they have for demo (I've been there a few times but haven't seen anything). I also have a place called 'Deluxe Audio' just down the street from me, but I have no idea what to expect when I walk in there...Could I just ask to check out the setups they have with an mp3 player? By looking at the website I'm not really sure what exactly they sell...but here it is:

http://www.deluxeaudioandvideo.com/index.php/our-products/audio-products

I was planning on making a trip here, but I was gonna wait to get my new mp3 player shipped to me first...Though now that I think about it I'm sure they have their own audio to use as a demo. The one and only time I've ever been there was like 12 years ago when I got a Chris Chelios (Chicago Blackhawks) autograph at a signing there at the grand opening...lol
 
usually you can bring your own equipment, but it isn't required, most places have test gear (if it can make a sale, they'll do, basically)

guitar center will usually have Beyerdynamic, Audio-Technica, Ultrasone, M-Audio, etc
worth checking out

the other place, who knows, sounds like a hi-fi shop, probably have headphones, wander down and check it out
 
I'd love to hear some more elaboration on your post, because it contributes absolutely nothing to this thread.
 
Kayk said:
I'd love to hear some more elaboration on your post, because it contributes absolutely nothing to this thread.
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Sure it does. Maybe not for you, but I'm just contributing my opinion. And sorry that you're so butthurt.

Going from the Z-2300 to the Klipsch Promedia set is more of a sidegrade rather than an upgrade. They both use tiny satellite speakers - the crossover set very high. All midbass is routed to the sub, making it directional. You shouldn't be able to localize a proper sub. Good home audio speakers are typically much larger and sound a hell of a lot fuller and more dynamic.

Multimedia 2.1 sets are built around a compromise of size and sound quality that you just might not accept once you hear the difference.
 
audio thug said:
Sure it does. Maybe not for you, but I'm just contributing my opinion. And sorry that you're so butthurt.

Going from the Z-2300 to the Klipsch Promedia set is more of a sidegrade rather than an upgrade. They both use tiny satellite speakers - the crossover set very high. All midbass is routed to the sub, making it directional. You shouldn't be able to localize a proper sub. Good home audio speakers are typically much larger and sound a hell of a lot fuller and more dynamic.

Multimedia 2.1 sets are built around a compromise of size and sound quality that you just might not accept once you hear the difference.
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insulting the OP to contribute to your opinion as an answer to his question...

-bob
 
audio thug said:
My first post wasn't an insult, but the OP was angered by it. I'm just playing along.
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I think he was just asking for clarification of why you wouldn't buy PM2.1's as an upgrade from the Logitech speakers, instead of a blanket statement

your reasoning isn't really that far off, but I'm curious do you or have you owned the ProMedia speakers? they really aren't as bad as described, yes you do have a valid point in the small size of the satellites and potentially high xover point (iirc its somewhere around 100hz, not too bad), but they still sound plenty good for the money

not sure if I'd pin them as a "sidegrade" to the Logitech setup, mostly as the Klipsch are very likely to provide a more rounded presentation (most users generally find Logitech systems to have bloated or rumbly bass, without providing much definition, whereas the Klipsch system is generally held as a bit more "refined" (and I would be among these users)), but thats really a per-person opinion (this doesn't make it any less valid, it just might not be everyone's opinion)

-bob
 
obobski said:
I think he was just asking for clarification of why you wouldn't buy PM2.1's as an upgrade from the Logitech speakers, instead of a blanket statement
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A mistake on my part.

your reasoning isn't really that far off, but I'm curious do you or have you owned the ProMedia speakers?
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Nope. But I've heard both system, and I put more value in specifications than subjective reviews that are prone to bias and misinformation.

they really aren't as bad as described, yes you do have a valid point in the small size of the satellites and potentially high xover point (iirc its somewhere around 100hz, not too bad), but they still sound plenty good for the money
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I'm not sure about 'plenty good for the money' considering that the Promedia system sells for $150 at Best Buy. You can buy a pair of bookshelf speakers with 6.5" woofers, soft dome tweeters, and 0.75" MDF from thespeakercompany.com for $53 shipped right now. And the crossover point on the Klipsch set is 120hz. And also remember that the crossover point says little about the actual frequency response of the satellites.

not sure if I'd pin them as a "sidegrade" to the Logitech setup, mostly as the Klipsch are very likely to provide a more rounded presentation (most users generally find Logitech systems to have bloated or rumbly bass, without providing much definition, whereas the Klipsch system is generally held as a bit more "refined" (and I would be among these users)), but thats really a per-person opinion (this doesn't make it any less valid, it just might not be everyone's opinion)
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Have you owned both systems? Have you compared the systems side-by-side? How long has it been since you listened to system A when you listened to system B? A person's aural memory can be surprisingly deceptive. I could say very few meaningful things about the Grado RS-1's I listened to last week compared to the HD-580's that are on my head right now.
 
I'm really not trying to (nor will I) have a debate between the subjective and objective methodology of audio review and engineering at this juncture (as this is neither the time nor the place), just trying to provide some information/help to others (my previous posts can stand by themselves)

I'm not really taking a "side", just trying to answer the questions asked, thats all

the OP did state that the Klipsch setup in question was used, and likely at a discount from the $150 price you've found (which is a bit high (ok, its SRP); they will usually go on sale for ~$110-$120 from time to time (at least, the last ~7 years of market trends would support this notion)), which is likely an influential factor by itself

as a side note:
TSC is unfortunately going out of business next month, so while the price may be good today, that isn't consistent, and those are passive bookshelves, you'd still need to provide some amplification (and a subwoofer, if you want full range extension), yes theres probably equally good deals on used/closeout equipment for the other components which could make a killer setup, but this isn't consistent/guaranteed pricing or availability (which isn't a bad thing, per se) , theres nothing at all wrong with the suggestion, just another option (if we honestly wanted to set out building a truth table for all of the combinations available given a certain budget, we'd probably be here for quite a bit longer than I suspect either of us has the time for)

now, if providing amplification and a subwoofer isn't a problem, and the price isn't an issue (roughly $250-$300 (yes, even with $50 bookshelves)), the separates option is great assuming theres no space constraints

-bob
 
The Klipsch are on craigslist for $50, and considering my mother is offering me $50 for my current speakers (more than enough, and I don't have to deal with selling+shipping). That means that I don't lose anything upgrading to speakers in the same 'league' but a few steps above.

Either way, I wasn't expecting to upgrade my speakers anyways, as they only get about %20 of my listening time, while my headphones get the rest. But hey, if I'm getting a better system for practically free (and a 30 minute drive) then I'm not going to complain.

So putting this entire mess aside, I have another question: are the Denon AH-D2000s as comfortable as my HD555s? I love the fact that my ears aren't even being touched while I'm wearing the Sennheisers, and I'm wondering if the Denons are the same way. I'm going to the audio place down my street sometime and I'm pretty sure I'll be able to test them out if they have it.
 
What is your price range for your next upgrade?

I'd agree with the others that the speakers are the obvious weak link. I'll second that the Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 system is more of a side-grade than an upgrade. Just my opinion.

I would question whether or not you listen to your headphones more often because of the obvious sound advantage, or because you truly enjoy headphones more.

My suggestion is to really plan out your listening environment from an ideal system and work backwards, than to look at what you have and work forwards. In the end, I think you will save money and be happier with what you have.
 
I had the promedia set and while it was good at the time, what I have now is so much better. Though my audio setup set me back $1000+. I'd consider going the headphone route instead.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
 
Kayk said:
The Klipsch are on craigslist for $50, and considering my mother is offering me $50 for my current speakers (more than enough, and I don't have to deal with selling+shipping). That means that I don't lose anything upgrading to speakers in the same 'league' but a few steps above.

Either way, I wasn't expecting to upgrade my speakers anyways, as they only get about %20 of my listening time, while my headphones get the rest. But hey, if I'm getting a better system for practically free (and a 30 minute drive) then I'm not going to complain.

So putting this entire mess aside, I have another question: are the Denon AH-D2000s as comfortable as my HD555s? I love the fact that my ears aren't even being touched while I'm wearing the Sennheisers, and I'm wondering if the Denons are the same way. I'm going to the audio place down my street sometime and I'm pretty sure I'll be able to test them out if they have it.
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yeah they're "around ear", not "on ear" headphones, they touch the sides of your head, not your ears
as far as comfort, a lot of people say they're great (and I would agree, more or less)

Riddlinkidstoner said:
I had the promedia set and while it was good at the time, what I have now is so much better. Though my audio setup set me back $1000+. I'd consider going the headphone route instead.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
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pretty sure he's doing both, and just wants the speakers there for background use, not critical listening

-bob
 
I've been doing a ton of research since I started this topic, and I hear a lot of good things about the Denon AH-D2000s, and I am prepared to do a little modding and a lot of burning in to get the most out of them. Under the conditions I am present in, the most I am going to spend is at a firm $200. The D2000s fit right under that price, and while I do think the Promedia 2.1s are not a substantial step upwards, my decision to go that route is because first, I am seeing them for relatively cheap in my area (one seller even has one unopened), and also because my mother could use better speakers since she also listens to music a lot.

For the sake of this thread though, I guess I can take recommendations on better speakers under the $200 price range, and since I have a job to support my materialistic wants then I'll have to wait a few weeks before I go out buying new speakers. Here's what would be ideal to me:

-Good sound particularly for electronic music
-Strong bass
-2.1
-Monitors would not fit on my desk
-Less than $200
-Better price : performance than getting a $70 ProMedia set
-Preferably black in color
 
For reference: here is what my desk looks like. As you can see it's a little different than most other setups because the desk is a corner table built into 2 walls.

dqr86f.jpg
 
Lol...So I've been calling around places for the Denons and one retailer didn't carry them, but the guy left a comment saying this:

"We don't carry those, I can order them for you if you'd like, but I wanna just say that you should try out the Beats by Dr. Dre, I think they carry them at Best Buy, but they are the best headphones I've ever heard"

I said thanks for the suggestion, and had a good laugh after the phone call ended..lol
 
Kayk said:
Lol...So I've been calling around places for the Denons and one retailer didn't carry them, but the guy left a comment saying this:

"We don't carry those, I can order them for you if you'd like, but I wanna just say that you should try out the Beats by Dr. Dre, I think they carry them at Best Buy, but they are the best headphones I've ever heard"

I said thanks for the suggestion, and had a good laugh after the phone call ended..lol
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why laugh at the guy?
its his opinion
and it isn't "wrong" in a world of pure subjectivity (which is more or less what most audio types insist upon)
 
I guess you're right, but it was really just funny because he works at a hifi audio and home theater store, and he's recommending me a brand that his store doesn't even support when the store slogan is 'if we don't like it, we don't carry it'.
 
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Curious to know what is currently on the market that beats the Klipsch Pro Media in terms of sound quality at the same price point (or at least at a reasonable read <$500 price)?

I have heard the ProMedia 2.1 and 4.1 and they sound as good as some so called Hi Fi systems I have listened to.

Short of the B&W M1 satellite speakers which are not really designed for puters, what is there for top notch audio?

If there is anything around (speakers not headphone) I would love to know!
 
HowzThat said:
Curious to know what is currently on the market that beats the Klipsch Pro Media in terms of sound quality at the same price point (or at least at a reasonable read <$500 price)?

I have heard the ProMedia 2.1 and 4.1 and they sound as good as some so called Hi Fi systems I have listened to.

Short of the B&W M1 satellite speakers which are not really designed for puters, what is there for top notch audio?

If there is anything around (speakers not headphone) I would love to know!
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there isn't a "good, better, best" type of ranking that can be assessed on a linear scale related to money

however if we're talking about spending $500 or so, theres plenty of options that will offer more inputs/outputs, full range response, lower distortion, etc, because at that kind of pricing level you can easily get into more conventional audio systems (either fancy pants actives or passives)
 
obobski said:
there isn't a "good, better, best" type of ranking that can be assessed on a linear scale related to money

however if we're talking about spending $500 or so, theres plenty of options that will offer more inputs/outputs, full range response, lower distortion, etc, because at that kind of pricing level you can easily get into more conventional audio systems (either fancy pants actives or passives)
Click to expand...

Yes...open to all options..Please list away:

1. Speakers that fit on the desk i.e. not monstrously huge and will fit in a decent sized room.
2. Look decent on the desk
3. Better audio quality than the Klipsch (subjective I know...but if widely acknowledged as amazing fidelity what does it matter )
4. What abou something like the B&W M1 satellites or Polk Audio satellites. Can they be hooked up to a computer?

Useful I think for OP so he can replace his Logitechs....easily available yes...but better options abound.

EDIT: And please don't say Bose. :(
 
HowzThat said:
Yes...open to all options..Please list away:

1. Speakers that fit on the desk i.e. not monstrously huge and will fit in a decent sized room.
2. Look decent on the desk
3. Better audio quality than the Klipsch (subjective I know...but if widely acknowledged as amazing fidelity what does it matter )
4. What abou something like the B&W M1 satellites or Polk Audio satellites. Can they be hooked up to a computer?

Useful I think for OP so he can replace his Logitechs....easily available yes...but better options abound.

EDIT: And please don't say Bose. :(
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anything can be hooked up to a computer, its just a matter of knowing what you're doing
the M1's would require some amplification but other than that, no problem, I'm really not gonna list every passive bookshelf or floorstander up to around $400/pair though


and the M1's are far and away from absolute high fidelity, but you didn't say unlimited buget

as far as no Bose, you ask for all of the options, expect a "good better best" ideology, yet won't acknowledge stuff that actually fits your general criteria :eek:

sounds to me like you should spend some time reading, learning, etc
 
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