What would it take to get John Carmack to make a gamers OS?

Discussion in 'Operating Systems' started by griff30, Mar 16, 2007.

  1. griff30

    griff30 I Lower the Boom!

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    Ok, Im just throwing this out there, maybe start a petition to get Carmack and his crew to make a cheap OS for gamers. Sure it can run open office but the core is multimedia and gaming. Something like a modern BeOS with no DRM and no DirectX all Open source.
    Make it cheap and support stuff like PPUs and SLI and gamers would be all over it.
    Screw Vista, I want IdOS! ;)
     
  2. digital_exhaust

    digital_exhaust [H]ard|DCer of the Month - May 2008

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    I think a large amount of cash would be a bit more effective than a petition, but that's just my guess:)
     
  3. Kris

    Kris Gawd

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    Sounds like a waste of time and effort. Windows is already pretty well optimized for gaming and DirectX has tons of features to help developers create great games.

    If they wrote an OS from scratch, not only would they have to re-create all C and C++ libraries as well as porting a compiler, but they would have to create a kernal, a hardware interaction layer/drivers, and even a GUI (all of these things take a very long time to do).

    If they used BeOS components then it wouldn't be that difficult to get something up and running, just time consuming but then they are limited to OpenGL.

    Then what do you do installing the OS? Good luck writing a reliable re-partitioning tool unless you expect everyone to replace Windows/Linux/OS X which isn't something you can expect from your users as they'd lose all ability to use MS Office, etc without trying to configure Wine or something.

    Not to mention his speciality isn't in OSes, it's in games. You can't take a guy who builds great engines and expect him to build the whole car, body,etc. Btw, petitions don't do anything.

    Besides, Doom 3 wasn't that great and sold a horrible amount of copies. I've lost faith in their game making abilities.
     
  4. TypeO

    TypeO [H]ardness Supreme

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    I agree.
     
  5. griff30

    griff30 I Lower the Boom!

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    I disagree but to each his own.
    I do think Microsoft could use some competition other than Linux and OSX for games.
    Something without DRM.
    I was hoping Yellowtab would make a better OS than it did but it is now dead as BeOS.
     
  6. djnes

    djnes [H]ard as it Gets

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    What legal activities is DRM preventing you from doing?
     
  7. griff30

    griff30 I Lower the Boom!

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    " legal activities?" Well thats a better than asking me if I pirate songs and movies. I do back up my songs into MP3 and my movies to Xvid, why? I have a a 3 year old and one on the way. My son goes through DVDs like Sherman through Atlanta. If he gets his hands on them its worse.
    I have backed up every DVD I own. I dont sell them or distribute them, but DRM will have none of that.

    I oppose DRM. My choice.
     
  8. Mister Natural

    Mister Natural 2[H]4U

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    My bets are on google for coming up with an OS.
     
  9. djnes

    djnes [H]ard as it Gets

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    I back up my movies and rip my music all in Vista, without any issues. I think people are getting all worked up about DRM for no reason. I completely agree that you should be able to use your media the way you want...but what I don't understand is why everyone's complaining that they can't.
     
  10. Catweazle

    Catweazle 2[H]4U

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    Oh FFS! People aren't hell-bent on trashing ANOTHER thread with the anti-DRM crap are they?



    On topic:

    This 'gamers OS' sounds like a cute idea. How, though, after you get it created, are you going to find any games to run on it? Somebody in the Open Source community going to make a Tetris or super Mario clone for you, perhaps?
     
  11. griff30

    griff30 I Lower the Boom!

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    Catweazle
    Ok maybe not open source as not enough money for higher quality games. But a streamlined os for gamers first.
    I like where Vista is going with the 3D desktop and sure its real pretty, but it was just an idea for a competitive OS, one that put gamers first, not office types.
     
  12. bbz_Ghost

    bbz_Ghost 2[H]4U

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    There already is a gamer's OS.

    :)

    And that's just one. I'm being facetious, I know it, but even so, as was pointed out earlier, Carmack isn't necessarily the best choice for a person to create an OS. If you want a true gaming OS, get a console, because a PC should never be used just for gaming, that's just a total waste of capability and resources.

    Of course, that's just my opinion but but but...
     
  13. Whatsisname

    Whatsisname [H]ardForum Junkie

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  14. duby229

    duby229 2[H]4U

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    I think MS has it down as THE gamers OS.

    Years ago when I was in school, I told one of my instructors that I was thinking about writing a new shell to to replace Windows (this was back in the win3.1 days)... Well, needless to say he pointed out accurately that the recourses and man power needed to do it would be astronomical... Unless you've got the dollars to go head to head with MS, it aint gonna happen.

    Well now that I've been working with computers for a while, and I've seen the VAST impact that MS has in the OS market I realize that he was totally right.Until someone with a few billion dollars to spare decides to take on MS it wont happen.
     
  15. GreNME

    GreNME 2[H]4U

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    Um, I could be way off base here, but there already is one-- it runs the XBox 360.

    I've got an idea: create a sufficient market for which there would be a demand.

    I know that there are a lot of guys out there who play games (I do not), but there aren't a lot of gamers who only use their OS to game. Sure, you might think there are a lot out there, but most adults who game regularly use their computers for a whole host of other things along with gaming. For those people, it's going to be Windows, OS X, or Linux. An OS that does gaming first and maybe one or two other small things is not going to do well in the market.

    Now, on the other hand, if game development began moving toward OpenGL or if DirectX were somehow ported to Linux, then your "gaming OS" already exists. Just install some small Linux distro and only add to it the necessary components to run the games, and you're set.

    But is it going to happen? I don't know. I don't game, but I still think that having cross-development would be a boon to the computing community in general. However, I don't think it would do much for those who have a real stake in the matter: the ones spending the money to make the games. So, once again, it comes down to a feasible market. Consoles are tastier than a full productivity OS.
     
  16. duby229

    duby229 2[H]4U

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    DirectX support in Wine is getting better. Quite a few titles already run well.

    Its just that it is so inconsistent, and even alot of installers dont run well. If you can get the game installed, it may run well. I just think if you want to game, then use Windows. Messing with Wine to do it is just a plain pain in the rear.
     
  17. TheRapture

    TheRapture [H]ardness Supreme

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    Great engine, shitty game. After the first 10,000 times one of those fire ball tossing things jumps out from a door you just passed, it gets really old.
     
  18. Catweazle

    Catweazle 2[H]4U

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    Others have hinted at it. I'll state it bluntly.

    There is no market for such a thing. there never WILL be a market for such a thing. In the grander scheme of things the overall proportion of PC owners and/or users who "put gaming first" is insignificantly small, If you fail to recognise the lack of economic incentive to create such a thing then you overestimate the 'importance' of the activity in that regard.


    That may seem a strange thing to say to somebody who spends lots of time with online message boards and other communication meduiums where 'PC Gamers' congregate. But remember that there is a world outside your own small sphere of activity.

    Video gaming is very, very big business. Rivals Hollywood, in fact. Bit overall, gaming on the PC has only about a 30% share of that at best. Of the PC share by far the biggest portion of it is devoted to a handful of online games and stuff such as The Sims. Of the remaining, much smaller portion of it the preponderance of gamers aren't obsessing about their machines and their OS. Most of those people are simply installing "a game" on "a computer" and getting about the business of playing it.

    Overall, the proportion of people who actually really CARE about the concerns you describe is incredibly small.

    And, for that small proportion of users, there is vLite for those few who are concerned enough to actually act on their concern ;)
     
  19. eeyrjmr

    eeyrjmr [H]ardness Supreme

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    Doom3 wasnt suppose to be the greatest, it was a tech demo and to effect was a great sucess. It is one of the best if not the best for in-door rendering, it falls over on outside (athough iD lot did come up with mega-texture for quakewars... Gonna be great!!!)

    Now! As long as say QuakeWars has some sort of online verification as well as CD key locking and allows to be played without the game DVD I am actually planning on making a LiveDVD with quakewars on it.
    Initially for personal use booting straight to the game (really minimal system). Then depending on how the game registers itself (for copy protection) make it have an option to enter yr details and minmal desktop stuff and upload image to a server

    Gentoo based of course ;)
    I already have a basic liveCD image (have it for work for a test rig use) wouldn't take much to install QW into that sandbox and iso it.

    think of it closer to a console this way
     
  20. Hypernova

    Hypernova [H]ard|Gawd

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    That just screams over kill.

    The best gaming OS as some pointed out are console OS's, PC OS are meant for much more then games.
     
  21. Steve01S4

    Steve01S4 Limp Gawd

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    If you were going to create a non-Windows OS for gaming, the obvious solution would be to sink the time/money into Linux/BSD/Solaris rather than reinventing the wheel. The three of them are already solid, complete operating systems, and many would argue that their main weakness is gaming. All that would really be needed would be adding a DirectX-like API to them. If the OS gained significant market share, driver problems would no longer be an issue (though they haven't been for me since the '90s, with the exception of ATI's garbage). Even if there are things that need to be improved at the kernel level, this isn't a serious problem if you have the kernel source to start with.

    If Google decides to release an OS, it'll almost certainly be a distribution of Linux, but I'm not sure I see them focusing on gaming at all. Cedega and Wine have improved tremendously over the last couple of years, and if they continue to improve as they have been, they could be a reasonable solution for the vast majority of gamers. They work very well for me today, but I don't play many of the latest games. I usually wait for things to hit the $20-$30 price point, and by that time they're old enough to be supported quite well.
     
  22. MindBuster

    MindBuster 2[H]4U

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    Ahh, nothing like the old days, with no OS at all, it was built into the games, you had to boot from the floppies (or tapes).

    Amazing how much could be crammed into 64KB of RAM.

    Imagine what games could be made on todays machines that way :)
    (...and imagine the work load also to get it done :p )
     
  23. general

    general [H]ard|Gawd

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    Given that OGL is just limping along, I'd say that he wouldn't be all that interested in it. People in general don't care or aren't strategic enough to use their dollars in a way that will be best for them long term. They just buy what is best right now. I doubt Carmack would want to be part of a losing effort.

    On another note, what would really be the benefit of a gaming OS? Seen any of the gameplay on the games that Carmack puts out? The gameplay is terrible. In the end, graphics don't matter. Only the gameplay matters. You forget about the graphics after a week.
     
  24. eeyrjmr

    eeyrjmr [H]ardness Supreme

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    Who say's it is "just limping along"
    it is used by quite a large number of proffesional houses (matlab for one!) and it is certainly NOT liming along!!!

    yes a couple of years back new stanards did get stalled when OGL2 for hardware was pushed out and the API for software was stalled at 1.4 due to financial problems with SGI (This was the main reason why the DX & OGL unified API failed). They ended up selling the rights to OGL to a consortium and within a month the OGL2.0 spec was released and also not that long ago OGL2.1 was released.

    OGL2.2 due out later this year is suppose to provide effect akin to DX103D

    OGL is most certainly NOT dead or just limping along
     
  25. ilkka

    ilkka [H]ardness Supreme

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    If it runs office, it's already a full-fledged OS. Then it's expected to do everything Windows does. And recreating Windows, but making it more efficient in games, is a slightly more expensive project than actually making Windows. After all, Windows is already optimized: Aero and all that crud gets unloaded when you start a game.

    And a multimedia oriented system without DRM is either illegal or actually incapable of playing vast amounts of multimedia.


    The idea sucks.
     
  26. BBowermaster

    BBowermaster Gawd

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    You want a Gamers OS, use XP Lite or NS Lite or whatever its called.