What UPS for 208V 3 phase 3 pole 4 wire (Delta) NEMA L15-30R PDU?

A

acesea

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 2, 2004
Messages
211
I bought used HP 42u racks with several 0u power distribution units preinstalled. I am ignorant regarding the appropriate implementation of these 208V HP AF512A PDUs with uninterpretable power supplies. Now a 120v double conversion OPTI-UPS DS3000B-RM powers all the equipment but I would like to leverage the 208v PDUs for powering racks and particularly supermicro chassis' with 760W Triple-Redundant AC power supply (100 - 240V, 50-60Hz, 14 Amp).

Most 208v UPSs output L6-30R and L6-20R, none L15-30R (update: UPSs do offer 3 phase L15-30R output). How can I connect the PDUs male L15-30R to a female L6-30R on the UPS? Will the supermicro chassis function well behind such a setup given the voltage, phase, etc?
 
Last edited:
I can't find any in my initial search, but i can give you two options

1) Get different PDU's (are your servers even 208V?)
2) APC has great online chat, they may be able to help you find something
 
k1pp3r said:
I can't find any in my initial search, but i can give you two options

1) Get different PDU's (are your servers even 208V?)
2) APC has great online chat, they may be able to help you find something
Click to expand...

Am I incorrect to assume that the supermicro chassis' psu (specs noted in the first post) will accept 208V even though it is within their specified voltage input range?

I will contact APC. Disregarding cost, is there any reason I should not want double conversion UPS devices behind servers? I'd speculate efficiency is poorer and maybe replacing batteries is a no go when active but I like the concept of filtered power where a fresh perfect sine wave is recreated thereby maybe stressing less of the connected psus.


Berg0 said:
What type of plugs are on the PDU for output?


http://www.generatorjoe.net/html/web/outlet/quailplug.html
Click to expand...

IMO the output plugs on the PDU are a non-issue since I am able to connect everything but the input connector on the PDU. Nevertheless the PDU is AF512A with specs at http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/11041_na/11041_na.HTML which identify six IEC 320 C-19 output connections.

There are HP power strips that are compatible and connect to the PDUs C-19. From the power strips I am able to connect the supermicro psus assuming they will function on 208v. I am unable to find the part number for the power strip to get specs but here is a pic:
 
Last edited:
acesea said:
Am I incorrect to assume that the supermicro chassis' psu specs noted above will not accept 208V?

I will contact APC asap.



The PDU is AF512A with specs at http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/11041_na/11041_na.HTML which identify six IEC 320 C-19 output connections. I am unable to find this connection on the site you referred to which btw is an excellent resource!
Click to expand...

The problem wouldn't be the voltage, it's the number of phases supplying the voltage. A standard 100-240v power supply only has the circuitry to rectify a single phase into DC.
 
ryan_975 said:
The problem wouldn't be the voltage, it's the number of phases supplying the voltage. A standard 100-240v power supply only has the circuitry to rectify a single phase into DC.
Click to expand...

The PDUs input is 3 phase but I am unable to decipher if the output is single or 3 phase. PDU specs are: Current (max) 41.52A, 13.84A/phase; AC Voltage Range 208v 3Ø Delta
 
acesea said:
The PDUs input is 3 phase but I am unable to decipher if the output is single or 3 phase. PDU specs are: Current (max) 41.52A, 13.84A/phase; AC Voltage Range 208v 3Ø Delta
Click to expand...

From what I can tell, the input to the PDU is 3-phase, but it distributes three 208v single phase "sources" to each C19 outlet. I had misunderstood what you were saying and trying to do.

EDIT: And this from your specs link confirms it;

Each Control Unit is a three-phase input that branches out to 6 single-phase branch circuits.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Each actual outlet draws power from one of the three phases. Those IEC connectors are single phase connectors (they only have the wiring to support a single phase, if you observe the IEC connector, you see three positions. Since the bottom is ground, that leaves only two positions to carry electricity. How many pins does the PDU's plug have? If it has four pins, then that's ground + phase X + phase Y + phase Z. If it has five pins, then that's ground + X + Y + Z + neutral. Three-phase delta networks have 208V between phases (208v potential differnce between X/Y, Y/Z/ or Z/X) and 120v potential difference between any phase and neutral. If you have a four pin plug on the PDU, then each outlet is putting out 208V. If you have a five pin plug on the PDU, then each outlet is likely putting out 120V.

Usually each outlet is connected to a different phase to try and balance the load on all phases. For instance, outlet 1 is connected to X, outlet 2 is connected to Y, outlet 3 is connected to Z, outlet 4 is connected to X...

Obviously the best option is to use a multimeter to verify the how the power is being distributed.
 
cymon said:
Each actual outlet draws power from one of the three phases. Those IEC connectors are single phase connectors (they only have the wiring to support a single phase, if you observe the IEC connector, you see three positions. Since the bottom is ground, that leaves only two positions to carry electricity. How many pins does the PDU's plug have? If it has four pins, then that's ground + phase X + phase Y + phase Z. If it has five pins, then that's ground + X + Y + Z + neutral. Three-phase delta networks have 208V between phases (208v potential differnce between X/Y, Y/Z/ or Z/X) and 120v potential difference between any phase and neutral. If you have a four pin plug on the PDU, then each outlet is putting out 208V. If you have a five pin plug on the PDU, then each outlet is likely putting out 120V.

Usually each outlet is connected to a different phase to try and balance the load on all phases. For instance, outlet 1 is connected to X, outlet 2 is connected to Y, outlet 3 is connected to Z, outlet 4 is connected to X...

Obviously the best option is to use a multimeter to verify the how the power is being distributed.
Click to expand...

oops, yeah, 208v between each leg. I've corrected my post. That should be fine for his Supermicro power supplies since they're rated for 100-240v, right?
 
You need 3 phase power for those PDUs. You wont be able to get that in residential areas. Best bet would be to get new PDUs that are single phase input at 120V or 240V and UPSs to match. Most newer power supplies I have seen will take 110V to 240V so I would guess the PSUs you have should be fine on either.
 
acesea said:
How can I connect the PDUs male L15-30R to a female L6-30R on the UPS?
Click to expand...


To answer this question: You can't. As said above, the PDU requires three phase power. A UPS with L6-30R outlets supplies only single phases to it's loads. You'll need to find a UPS that can output 3 phase.

Of course this is assuming you're being supplied 3-phase power from the utility company. If not, you need to find single phase PDU's like cactus and k1pp3r said.
 
ryan_975 said:
To answer this question: You can't. As said above, the PDU requires three phase power. A UPS with L6-30R outlets supplies only single phases to it's loads. You'll need to find a UPS that can output 3 phase.

Of course this is assuming you're being supplied 3-phase power from the utility company. If not, you need to find single phase PDU's like cactus and k1pp3r said.
Click to expand...

Or "make it work" by throwing an L6-30P on the PDU and running all sockets off the PDU from one phase. or only utilizing the sockets on the PDU that run off of a single phase, and not use the other wires.

don't electrocute yourself.
 
Berg0 said:
Or "make it work" by throwing an L6-30P on the PDU and running all sockets off the PDU from one phase. or only utilizing the sockets on the PDU that run off of a single phase, and not use the other wires.

don't electrocute yourself.
Click to expand...

If he's going to do that, he may as well stick with what he's got now.
 
Thanks all for providing clarity. Pardon the weak google-fu, I finally am finding lots of UPSs that output 3 phase L15-30R.

Berg0 said:
don't electrocute yourself.
Click to expand...

!!!


ryan_975 said:
Of course this is assuming you're being supplied 3-phase power from the utility company.
Click to expand...

I will review the electrical engineering plans and contact my electricians asap but I assume there'd be no issue given the buildings being relatively new, large, commercial, and easy access to install new cable in from outside. Is there anything I could glance at near the electrical mains to confirm availability of 3 phase from the utility?

As a for instance I found this HP UPS AF431A http://h30094.www3.hp.com/product/sku/3752822/mfg_partno/AF431A which specifies "Output Voltage: 200 V AC to 240 V AC 3-phase" but no phase specification on input other than "Input Voltage: 110 V AC; Input Voltage Range: 208 V AC".
 
Last edited:
acesea said:
I will contact my electricians asap but I assume there'd be no issue given the buildings being relatively new, large, commercial, and easy access to pull new cable in from outside. Is there anything I could inspect to confirm availability of 3 phase from the utility?
Click to expand...

It really depends on if the utility company has 3 phase supplying the area you're in. If not, you're most likely out of luck. I don't see them replacing the already in place infrastructure (ie transformers and poles) to supply one customer. You'll just have to call them and find out.
 
ryan_975 said:
It really depends on if the utility company has 3 phase supplying the area you're in. If not, you're most likely out of luck. I don't see them replacing the already in place infrastructure (ie transformers and poles) to supply one customer. You'll just have to call them and find out.
Click to expand...

When I met with an electrician onsite to discuss this project he identified there being no issue installing receptacles for L15-30R so I assume he knew the building had 3 phase. I'll keep the thread updated since it has helped me a lot.
 
Last edited:
ryan_975 said:
It really depends on if the utility company has 3 phase supplying the area you're in. If not, you're most likely out of luck. I don't see them replacing the already in place infrastructure (ie transformers and poles) to supply one customer. You'll just have to call them and find out.
Click to expand...

most power companies would be more than happy to do it... and bill you :)
 
FLECOM said:
most power companies would be more than happy to do it... and bill you :)
Click to expand...

I'm just going on my limited experience. My father tried to get 3-phase in his shop a long time ago. The utility company wouldn't do it since there wasn't a large enough demand for it in the area his shop was in.
 
You could get a 3 phase motor and a 1 phase motor, make the 1 phase motor turn the 3 phase motor. You've now got 3 phase power coming out of it. Not really efficient mind you. lol

120v+ motors arn't cheap either.
 
Last edited:
Red Squirrel said:
You could get a 3 phase motor and a 1 phase motor, make the 1 phase motor turn the 3 phase motor. You've not got 3 phase power coming out of it. Not really efficient mind you. lol

120v+ motors arn't cheap either.
Click to expand...

That would be one heck of an [H] mod. :D
 
ya rotary phase converters are not uncommon... I have seen them used to convert 240VAC > 208 3 phase to run large ion gas lasers
 
See if any of the breaker panels are labelled something like '208Y' or have a 3Φ on them.

The entire AC distribution network is 3 phase. If you look at the utility pole, the 3 wires on top are 3 phase AC at around 13kV. A site with 1 phase wiring only has 1 transformer (like a residential area). If you see 3 transfomers on the pole that means three phase.

We've got nothing but 3 phase power at work, although we don't have any fun IT gear to run off of it. Figures, eh?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top