What to look for when choosing an HDTV for PC gaming?

[dmagro]

After reading a few threads here, I was surprised to find out that it appears an HDTV is quite capable of running PC games at up to 1920x1080, as long as it's a 1080p TV.

I did read the thread asking what's the best 30'' monitor to get, and saw some comparisons there between TVs and monitors around that size, but was left with the impression a TV would be a better choice for me. As right now, gaming would be the main use for the monitor (perhaps even some TV use as my current TV is from like the 90's!). I've never used anything beyond 1920x1200 anyways (so I'd only be reducing my resolution by a tiny bit). Most of all, the price on the 30'' monitors is way too much for me.

However, I know really nothing about HDTVs since I've never even owned one. I'd love to know what I should look for, and what to avoid. Also if anyone has had experience with any, good or bad, so that I'll know to steer clear, or perhaps also go the same way.

I assume I'll end up getting something between 32 & 37 inches.

Thanks in advance for any advice you can share!

 

[dmagro]

After visiting a local Worten (I'm in Portugal atm), I would consider something as large as 42'', as that would double very nicely for watching a good soccer match

 

[SJetski71]

What to look for when choosing an HDTV for PC gaming?

low input lag first and foremost, next would be smearing.

The problem is with 2010 models there are so few to pick from, no joke. LCD TV's use image processing to enhance the picture but it also creates a delay (lag) so you want a TV that has either defeatable or less image processing to begin with. Some of the brands are Sharp (700UN + E77U + 810UN models), very certain Panasonics including the panasonic plasmas (not the LG or samsung plasmas though). The Sony EX400 (but not the sony EX500). Otherwise i'll let you research the exact models and details yourself

Here's where you would start:

LCD TV Input lag discussion thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1131464
Plasma Input lag discussion: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1166196
Buyer's discussion thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1230050

The Phillips brand LCD's sold in north america are made by Funai, and not Phillips, so you can scratch them off your list.

 

[dmagro]

Awesome, thanks for the input. I will read up on those threads now. And I'm actually in Portugal, Europe now.

 

[SJetski71]

Awesome, thanks for the input. I will read up on those threads now. And I'm actually in Portugal, Europe now.

Are you living there? I had thought you were visiting...

If you are living there then my links wouldn't help you quite as much since different models are sold in europe, sometimes they are the same TV but have different model numbers.

 

[dmagro]

Yeah, I'm living here (Portugal) now.

Either way, I just had dinner and I'm going to read up on those threads to get a good idea of what I should be looking for. Thanks again!

 

[dmagro]

You're right, getting part numbers to match isn't going well. I also just thought of another thing... do LED TVs work better than regular LCD TVs? Didn't see any mention of LEDs in the input lag thread...

P.S. Actually, ended up finding some references to a few Samsung LED TVs, looking into those now.

 

[SJetski71]

You're right, getting part numbers to match isn't going well. I also just thought of another thing... do LED TVs work better than regular LCD TVs? Didn't see any mention of LEDs in the input lag thread...

P.S. Actually, ended up finding some references to a few Samsung LED TVs, looking into those now.

LED makes no difference as far as PC or gaming performance is concerned, and Samsung's tend to have higher input lag than the other brands, some people may find certain model samsungs to have "acceptable" performance but for 2010 it looks pretty bad.

With samsungs you often have a panel lottery where you never know what kind of lcd panel will be included, sometimes they even have non-samsung AUO panels so be careful with them.

 

[Lateralus]

With samsungs you often have a panel lottery where you never know what kind of lcd panel will be included, sometimes they even have non-samsung AUO panels so be careful with them.

IIRC, LG was/is bad for having panel lotteries as well (VA vs IPS), though the LH30 and LH40 series were reportedly good for gaming. Also the Sharp 700UN series that was mentioned above.

 

[SJetski71]

IIRC, LG was/is bad for having panel lotteries as well (VA vs IPS), though the LH30 and LH40 series were reportedly good for gaming. Also the Sharp 700UN series that was mentioned above.

Not sure how it is in Europe but the LG LH30 was the worst for panel lotteries with no less than 4 different panels used, some much worse than others (Chi-Mei panels for example). The smaller sized LH30's were more affected than the larger sizes.

 

[NCX]

The Samsung LN32C550 has around 30ms input lag and a 2,000:1 ANSI contrast and 6520k color temp with the Movie Preset+Game Mode. Motion is amazing for a VA panel (tested with PixerPixAn), just have to sit about 2.5 feet back otherwise there is noticeable gamma shift.

The 40" version is going to be reviewed soon (not by me) I just picked up the 32" to test it for PC gaming. You have to get the AA01 (should say on the back) panel though sense the rest aren't as good.

 

[SJetski71]

The Samsung LN32C550 has around 30ms input lag and a 2,000:1 ANSI contrast and 6520k color temp with the Movie Preset+Game Mode. Motion is amazing for a VA panel (tested with PixerPixAn), just have to sit about 2.5 feet back otherwise there is noticeable gamma shift.

The 40" version is going to be reviewed soon (not by me) I just picked up the 32" to test it for PC gaming. You have to get the AA01 (should say on the back) panel though sense the rest aren't as good.

Nice, did you come up with that 30ms number? and if so did you test it vs a CRT or LCD monitor?


LN32C550 version AA01 labeled on the back of the package. Makes buying it online a little tough but duly noted.

 

[dmagro]

Nice, did you come up with that 30ms number? and if so did you test it vs a CRT or LCD monitor?


LN32C550 version AA01 labeled on the back of the package. Makes buying it online a little tough but duly noted.

Annoyingly, as always, I can't seem to find that part here. I found a LE32C550, but after going over the specs, it's definitely not the same monitor with a different part number.

 

[A13X]

Input lag is by far the most important thing to take into account for gaming. The whole industry wide obsession with pixel response time as a measure of gaming performance is a complete joke. I've found through experience that screens with 2ms response times can be worthless gaming displays while screens with 16ms response times are tolerable.

 

[Godmachine]

Input lag is by far the most important thing to take into account for gaming. The whole industry wide obsession with pixel response time as a measure of gaming performance is a complete joke. I've found through experience that screens with 2ms response times can be worthless gaming displays while screens with 16ms response times are tolerable.

.

You may think people in this thread are overstating this issue but its seriously the biggest problem with using a full scale HDTV for everyday usage and gaming on the PC. It can be so bad that it'll drive you nuts and once you buy and have that TV in your home its a nightmare to return.

Hit up the avsforum and look at that input latency thread , see what people are saying about the latest models.

Input latency > everything else when it comes to using HDTV's as PC monitors.

 

[NCX]

Nice, did you come up with that 30ms number? and if so did you test it vs a CRT or LCD monitor?


LN32C550 version AA01 labeled on the back of the package. Makes buying it online a little tough but duly noted.

The person reviewing the panel measured the 40" version. My CRT can't dp 1080p so measuring lag isn't going to work very well.


Mine is actually a different panel than his 40" (AA01 is made by AUO) where as the good 40" version is AA03 and is made by Samsung.

Anything I say about input lag is purely subjective, how ever next to a 7ms panel it's very hard to tell the difference. I also have a 30ms TV and the C550 is noticeably faster. I've tested a bunch of monitors so all I can do is hope people take my word for it.


Was able to get the cotrast up to 3000:1 @ 120cd/m2 (6700K color temp), after profiling with Eye One Match it's 2,500 120cd/m2. Had to make a bit of a sacrifice for better color quality, however this result is still excellent.


Not sure if the AA03 panel exists for 32" versions, will have to do some more research.

 

[SJetski71]

The person reviewing the panel measured the 40" version. My CRT can't dp 1080p so measuring lag isn't going to work very well.


Mine is actually a different panel than his 40" (AA01 is made by AUO) where as the good 40" version is AA03 and is made by Samsung.

Anything I say about input lag is purely subjective, how ever next to a 7ms panel it's very hard to tell the difference. I also have a 30ms TV and the C550 is noticeably faster. I've tested a bunch of monitors so all I can do is hope people take my word for it.


Was able to get the cotrast up to 3000:1 @ 120cd/m2 (6700K color temp), after profiling with Eye One Match it's 2,500 120cd/m2. Had to make a bit of a sacrifice for better color quality, however this result is still excellent.


Not sure if the AA03 panel exists for 32" versions, will have to do some more research.

Actually with a multiple comparison your Sammy results are probably pretty close, it appears close to your low input lag 7ms monitor, perceptibly faster than a 30ms TV, and tested by a patient person .

Even with a margin of error of around 10ms it still sounds pretty good compared to other 2010 LCD TV's.

 

[Nielo TM]

Input lag is by far the most important thing to take into account for gaming. The whole industry wide obsession with pixel response time as a measure of gaming performance is a complete joke. I've found through experience that screens with 2ms response times can be worthless gaming displays while screens with 16ms response times are tolerable.

But its very difficult to measure input lag

Input lag is extremely difficult to measure (especially on 1080p HDTVs). First you'll need a program like SMTT and you have to compare the Flat Panel (FP) with a CRT using the FP's native resolution.

Because most CRT monitors are 4:3; when cloned it may not be possible to set the output resolution to the FP's native resolution, which means the figures obtained will be inaccurate (at least in most cases) due to scaling.

So you'll need a FP that doesn't lag when scaling and can accept 1080p via HDMI/DVI/VGA. When found, you'll have to compare it to the CRT so that the FP can become the new reference display. Then you must use a splitter to send 1920 x 1080 to the reference FP and to the HDTV.

Unfortunately, if the TV can accept both VESA and CEA timing via HDMI/DVI, it is likely the TV will display the image as intended, which means the user can only obtain the lag of PC Mode (and not Game Mode or Standard Mode).

 

[Nielo TM]

After reading a few threads here, I was surprised to find out that it appears an HDTV is quite capable of running PC games at up to 1920x1080, as long as it's a 1080p TV.

I did read the thread asking what's the best 30'' monitor to get, and saw some comparisons there between TVs and monitors around that size, but was left with the impression a TV would be a better choice for me. As right now, gaming would be the main use for the monitor (perhaps even some TV use as my current TV is from like the 90's!). I've never used anything beyond 1920x1200 anyways (so I'd only be reducing my resolution by a tiny bit). Most of all, the price on the 30'' monitors is way too much for me.

However, I know really nothing about HDTVs since I've never even owned one. I'd love to know what I should look for, and what to avoid. Also if anyone has had experience with any, good or bad, so that I'll know to steer clear, or perhaps also go the same way.

I assume I'll end up getting something between 32 & 37 inches.

Thanks in advance for any advice you can share!

If you're not to fussed about black levels, pick any Panasonic LCD with IPS-Pro panel (but make sure to enable built-in scaling as Panasonic models do not support VESA timings

If you're willing to deal with little smearing for better/deeper blacks, get the Samsung 32C5XX

 

[alysenne]

What size HDTV's are people using for desktop gaming?

It's tempting to just buy the biggest size that will fit on the desk, but when it gets too big, it's a pain because the screen is wider than your focused field of vision. You have to move your eyes too much (or even your head) if you want to see the far edges in detail.

I actually did use a 42" for a few months. I ended up moving it to my bedroom because it had too much screen tearing (I think that's what the problem is called). I'm now using a dual monitor setup with a 24" 1920x1200 as the main panel. Since the 24" screen is only a foot away (or so), I'm basically getting the same experience. The monitor is also a much better performing panel than the HDTV. It's also really nice having the extra pixels from the extra monitor.

 

[Whoisthisreally]

What size HDTV's are people using for desktop gaming?

It's tempting to just buy the biggest size that will fit on the desk, but when it gets too big, it's a pain because the screen is wider than your focused field of vision. You have to move your eyes too much (or even your head) if you want to see the far edges in detail.

I actually did use a 42" for a few months. I ended up moving it to my bedroom because it had too much screen tearing (I think that's what the problem is called). I'm now using a dual monitor setup with a 24" 1920x1200 as the main panel. Since the 24" screen is only a foot away (or so), I'm basically getting the same experience. The monitor is also a much better performing panel than the HDTV. It's also really nice having the extra pixels from the extra monitor.

The distance rule for 1080p is picture height x 3.1. If you choose a PVA model you might need to increase your viewing distance in order to avoid seeing a 3d gamma shift effect.

 

[dmagro]

While I'm still reading a lot about different monitors, and trying to find matching part numbers between the US and Europe (and corresponding reviews). I'm curious as to anyone having experience with the following, since they're available at a local store:

Toshiba Regza 37RV733G
Samsung LE37B553M3
Samsung LE40C530
Samsung LE40C550 (these LE models appear to be a euro version. There are LN models in the US but their specs aren't identical 50Hz vs 60, etc)

Or any Panasonic LED...

Again, Input lag, ghosting appear to be key. So that would be more important than TV images.