What price does AMD need to lower to now that the 670 is out?

[csgamer]

7850 at $200 sounds right now that the 660 is on its way.

LOL, nvidia has nothing on the 7850. 660 not for another 6 months.

$200 would be great but not gonna happen though. I see 7870 seeing a price drop next. At $350 it is way overpriced.

If nvidia wants to go to price war against the 7850, they need price drops on 560 ti 448's and 570's.

 

[raghu78]

Looks good other than a couple things:

1) Why buy the 7950 for the same price as a 670 when the 670 provides considerably better performance? I guess it has 3 GB VRAM but for a mid-range card that is going to be the least of your worries at extremely high resolutions.

2) I see at least 4 680s up for sale on FS/FT right now. Does not imply retail availability of course, but with the 670 I think we will see more 680s surfacing.

This is why

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/03/01/xfx_radeon_hd_7950_black_edition_video_card_review/8

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/05/10/nvidia_geforce_gtx_670_video_card_review/7

The HD 7970 / HD 7950 does not need to move an inch. All AMD has to do is stop selling 925 Mhz HD 7970 and 800 mhz HD 7950. Get that Radeon HD 7970 Ghz edition with a stock clock of 1050 Mhz. Bin chips and allow partners to sell HD 7970 Ghz edition OC models upto 1200 Mhz. Push for HD 7950 at 900 Mhz and HD 7950 OC editions to hit 1 Ghz. Why should AMD lose money when they have superior chip (gaming + compute) with higher memory bandwidth compared to Nvidia which has seriously cut corners and regressed wrt GTX 580.

 

[ImJacksAmygdala]

LOL, nvidia has nothing on the 7850. 660 not for another 6 months.

[Citation Needed]

$200 would be great but not gonna happen though. I see 7870 seeing a price drop next. At $350 it is way overpriced.

If nvidia wants to go to price war against the 7850, they need price drops on 560 ti 448's and 570's.

That is exactly my point. Why would I pay $250-270 for a 7850 when the 7870 will hit $300, the 570 price gets reduced, and then the 660ti is announcement a month early. I think the 560ti 448 price reduction is right around the corner and will follow the sales seen on the rest of the 560s.

$200-220 for a 7850 in the next 6-8 weeks does not seem unreasonable to me at all.

 

[csgamer]

Have fun waiting. There is a right time for everybody. Prices will always go down eventually.

Playing bf3 with my 9800gt, I want my upgrade now. I could have gotten a 6950 for $200 about 7 months ago, waiting since then didn't benefit me much. But I really wanted to see performance benefit of 28nm gpus. Also, 7870 at $300 isn't really all that better than getting a 7850 at $250.

 

[ImJacksAmygdala]

Wow your in a good spot to pounce on that 570 and laugh all the way to the bank. I'm actually using a 9800GS for CS:GO beta right now, but I'm willing to see what happens next before I go all SLI in here.

I'm actually considering a $200 card to hold me off until August. The question is will it be a 560 ti 448 or a 7850.

 

[xorbe]

Some dude from overclockers.co.uk (that apparently is a purchasing manager for that store) said the 660ti won't come out for 6 months...

Like, 1/2 a month ago, lol.

 

[shansoft]

7970 should be at the price it should have always been at $349. The GTX-670 at $399 still beats the 7970 by quite a bit; The 670 is like 20% faster than the 7970, so the 7970 needs to be much cheaper;

BF3 @ 1920x1200 GTX-670 62.9 FPS vs 7970 49.8 FPS
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5818/nvidia-geforce-gtx-670-review-feat-evga/11

I bought my 5870 brand new first week of release in 2009 it was like $350. Then in 2010 the 6970 launched or $350. There was no reason the 7970 should have been so fucking high priced at $550, that was crazy.

Where did you get 20% faster? smoke out of nowhere?

Plus, a 30% overclock only brings max of 10% increase to the table... 7970 on the other hand scale far better than that.
With 7970 OC ability, its even with a GTX 680 OC. 670 can barely catch up there.

I say 400 is the lowest it can get, otherwise 450 is still the right price...

 

[GoldenTiger]

Posting this from another thread since it fits this one perfectly.

With the pricing on them poor compared to the GTX 670/680 cards, they really need another big price drop to even come close to being an option, let alone a good one, for anyone to buy.

I mean really... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125423 $400 custom-cooled gtx680-speed after stock OC gigabyte gtx 670 with quiet heatsink-fan, vs. noisy Radeon 7970 with poor crossfire drivers/etc. and worse speed for $470 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814103201) with a "I guess it might come" $20 rebate available. Heck, even apples-to-apples cooling-wise (here's the Gigabyte 7970 with same cooler as the GTX 670 has: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125413 ) it's still slower, costs $510 shipped, and has worse driver support + features, runs hotter, and consumes more power (for those who care).

I can't figure any objective buyer would grab one at this point.

 

[GoldenTiger]

Where did you get 20% faster? smoke out of nowhere?

He linked the graphs. This is reflected in every review of the MSRP-priced "stock-oc'd" GTX 670's as well.... 79xx is irrelevant right now in the market. Really it has been since the GTX 680 hit... with the GTX 670's out now it's just downright laughable at this point .

 

[kinjo]

He linked the graphs. This is reflected in every review of the MSRP-priced "stock-oc'd" GTX 670's as well.... 79xx is irrelevant right now in the market. Really it has been since the GTX 680 hit... with the GTX 670's out now it's just downright laughable at this point .

Agreed 100% AMD needs to do some serious price dropping at this point. Before the 670 they were in ok shape due to the fact that 680's were harder to find than a stripper in a convent (and still are) but 670 supply looks to be extremely healthy.

 

[Cider]

Cool story brah

Looks like I rustled your jimmies a bit.

 

[XacTactX]

I have to agree with the nVidia fanboys in this thread on one thing: the 7950 (in its current state) has been made irrelevant. The 670 consumes similar power and performs on average 10% faster at 1600p and 15% faster at 1200p, and it costs more or less the same price. nVidia hit AMD squarely in the center of the eyes on this one. Hopefully AMD fires back with a price cut.

 

[night_2004]

I have to agree with the nVidia fanboys in this thread on one thing: the 7950 (in its current state) has been made irrelevant. The 670 consumes similar power and performs on average 10% faster at 1600p and 15% faster at 1200p, and it costs more or less the same price. nVidia hit AMD squarely in the center of the eyes on this one. Hopefully AMD fires back with a price cut.

I'm sure they will; everything I have read suggests AMD has some OC headroom to work with. But the next question will be are there enough GTX 670 chips that can hit GTX 680 clocks for a GTX 670 Ti . nVidia and AMD are going to go rounds with the competition, so we all win.

 

[shansoft]

He linked the graphs. This is reflected in every review of the MSRP-priced "stock-oc'd" GTX 670's as well.... 79xx is irrelevant right now in the market. Really it has been since the GTX 680 hit... with the GTX 670's out now it's just downright laughable at this point .

One game doesn't says anything, plus AMD have problem with MSAA in that game.

 

[Bash]

pshh I am enjoying the fuck out of my 680.













Oh wait im not since I can not even buy one.

 

[xorbe]

But the next question will be are there enough GTX 670 chips that can hit GTX 680 clocks for a GTX 670 Ti .

Why does everyone talk about a "670Ti" model? Shouldn't that be 660SE, 660 OEM, 660, 660Ti OEM, 660Ti, 660Ti-1152 ...

 

[night_2004]

Just speculation based on what I've observed comparing the 670, 680, and 690.

 

[Lorien]

They don't really need to lower any prices, just launch the 7970Ghz Edition. AMD has product in stock as opposed to the 680 which for the most part continues to be a paper launch 2+ months after release.

I'm seriously wondering if they even need the Ghz edition halo card though. All AMD has to do is modify Powertune to work like Nvidia's auto overclocking cheat. A 7970 boosting to equal clocks as a boosting 680 will outperform it quite easily. Not to mention reviewers are now using retail bought cards instead of the cherry picked high self overclocking samples Nvidia passed around to reviewers.

 

[raghu78]

One game doesn't says anything, plus AMD have problem with MSAA in that game.

shansoft
BF3 is actually quite good for AMD if you look at hardocp results.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/04/10/sapphire_hd_7970_oc_edition_video_card_review/7

BF 3 Ultra 4X MSAA 2560 x 1600

HD 7970 OC ( 950 Mhz) - avg 40.0 fps min 27 fps
HD 7970 OC (1280 Mhz ) - avg 50.7 fps min 34 fps
GTX 680 (1100 Mhz turbo) - avg 42.9 fps min 25 fps

Nvidia GTX 680 OC might barely get to equal HD 7970 OC even at 1.3 Ghz or fall slightly behind. So you can be assured HD 7970 users are getting top dollar performance in BF3.

 

[GoldenTiger]

http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/Nvidia_GTX_670/16.html

Just thought I would leave it there... Seems 79xx is barely selling compared to the gtx 6xx. Amd doesn't have more supply, they just are not selling. Just like hw canucks said, now a 2nd source!

 

[raghu78]

http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/Nvidia_GTX_670/16.html

Just thought I would leave it there... Seems 79xx is barely selling compared to the gtx 6xx. Amd doesn't have more supply, they just are not selling. Just like hw canucks said, now a 2nd source!

nvidia's earnings call today will give an idea of the truth. If they are doing exceeding well it should reflect in their numbers

 

[night_2004]

nvidia's earnings call today will give an idea of the truth. If they are doing exceeding well it should reflect in their numbers

Good lord, if this is true than nVidia is going to have some very happy shareholders. Now next question. Did AMD have enough lead time with the 7000 series that demand has simply run its course, thus leaving only the people on the fence that were waiting for nVidia cards anyway? Or did AMD's sales numbers remain steady until a sudden drop during Kepler's release? Not to mention what about other price points that obviously nVidia just hasn't been able to fulfill yet?

Instead the issue is Kepler based graphics cards are in high demand. We have talked to a few retailers and the word from them is Kepler is selling at nearly a 4 to 1 ratio over Southern Islands. This leaves plenty of volume available for AMD, but makes it appear as if Nvidia is lacking the same volume,when this is not necessarily the case.

 

[raghu78]

Good lord, if this is true than nVidia is going to have some very happy shareholders. Now next question. Did AMD have enough lead time with the 7000 series that demand has simply run its course, thus leaving only the people on the fence that were waiting for nVidia cards anyway? Or did AMD's sales numbers remain steady until a sudden drop during Kepler's release? Not to mention what about other price points that obviously nVidia just hasn't been able to fulfill yet?

i meant sarcasm. Until we see Nvidia's numbers I can't believe that they are really supplying GTX 680 in volume. GTX 670 volume might be slightly better. When the next GK104 SKU launches which is GTX 660 Ti (3 GPC, 6 SMX, 192 bit, 24 ROP) and we see its supply we will get an idea. If GTX 660 Ti is abundant it points to serious yield issues with Nvidia.

 

[GoldenTiger]

The trend has been ongoing, night_2004, SKYMTL of Hardware Canucks also had been mentioning these sales numbers, in fact he was saying it was even worse for AMD than neoseeker's reviewer is now.

At this point though, all of my retailer contacts have indicated the same thing: most people are more willing to go on a GTX 680 waiting list and get their card "whenever" than buy a HD 7970 right away. Several large retailers have hardly sold any HD 7970s since the GTX 680's launch. I can't give exact numbers or my sources are toast but let's just say that most are down in the single digit sales for the last 2 weeks combined. So (IMO) up to this point, AMD's strategy is certainly NOT paying off.

Source: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums...Count-on-it.&p=5076770&viewfull=1#post5076770 3/29/2012.

 

[raghu78]

The trend has been ongoing, night_2004, SKYMTL of Hardware Canucks also had been mentioning these sales numbers, in fact he was saying it was even worse for AMD than neoseeker's reviewer is now.


Source: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums...Count-on-it.&p=5076770&viewfull=1#post5076770 3/29/2012.

The post made by SKYMTL was on Mar 29th and that was before the HD 7900 series price cuts. He was telling about sales in the 2 weeks preceding that date. The HD 7970 was priced at USD 549 - 599 at that time. His comments do not mention AMD sales' after the price cuts on Apr 16th.

AMD HD 7970 1Ghz cards went down to USD 459 in late April on newegg and have now stabilized at USD 479 - USD 499. You are such a negative person with very bad intentions. You are not just a Nvidia fanboi but a particularly manipulative person who distorts information and constantly spreads FUD about AMD.

 

[XacTactX]

Guys, usually the answer to my question is obvious, but this time I think nVidia has turned the tables.

nV Kepler: 294 mm^2
AMD SI: 365 mm^2 (24% more)

nV Kepler: 256 bit bus
AMD SI: 384 bit bus

nV Kepler: 8 pieces RAM
AMD SI: 12 pieces RAM

Who do you think has a lower BOM to produce a ready-to-go GPU? When it comes to waging a price war, it seems to me that nVidia is in a better position to match price cuts and wage a price war. But please let me know what you think on this idea because I could be missing other key information.

In my recent memory AMD always produced a more efficient and lower-cost GPU than nVidia did. The flagship part from nVidia always had a significantly larger die, had a more complicated PCB, and required a larger number of RAM chips. What ended up happening was nVidia had the fastest card, but AMD had the best price/performance. The 4870 did this to the 260/280, the 5870 did the same thing to the 480, and the 6970 did the same thing to the 570/580. But in the 28nm generation, it seems that nVidia is poised to win the price/performance war if it decides to pursue that strategy.

 

[raghu78]

Guys, usually the answer to my question is obvious, but this time I think nVidia has turned the tables.

nV Kepler: 294 mm^2
AMD SI: 365 mm^2 (24% more)

nV Kepler: 256 bit bus
AMD SI: 384 bit bus

nV Kepler: 8 pieces RAM
AMD SI: 12 pieces RAM

Who do you think has a lower BOM to produce a ready-to-go GPU? When it comes to waging a price war, it seems to me that nVidia is in a better position to match price cuts and wage a price war. But please let me know what you think on this idea because I could be missing other key information.

You forgot the major factor in determining cost on a new process- yields. Nvidia could rather ill afford a price war with their yield issues. They publicly said yields were below their expectations in their last quarter earnings call. AMD said they met their yield targets. Why would Nvidia mention low yields in an earnings call ? They were already hinting that their margins are going to be affected by those yields. Would they hurt themselves even further with a price war. I doubt

 

[jober1]

Well AMD has 6 cards out to choose from at all different price points, it's not like it's game over if their flagship's sales have dropped off. 7970's/50's really are great cards, I would be happy to own one. I'm sure AMD will be able to price them competitively and sell them. I suspect Nvidia can't afford to price their cards any lower, despite what GoldenTiger may say, I've read nothing but bad news with Nvidia's yields.

 

[Medion]

7970 should be at the price it should have always been at $349. The GTX-670 at $399 still beats the 7970 by quite a bit; The 670 is like 20% faster than the 7970, so the 7970 needs to be much cheaper;

BF3 @ 1920x1200 GTX-670 62.9 FPS vs 7970 49.8 FPS
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5818/nvidia-geforce-gtx-670-review-feat-evga/11

I bought my 5870 brand new first week of release in 2009 it was like $350. Then in 2010 the 6970 launched or $350. There was no reason the 7970 should have been so fucking high priced at $550, that was crazy.

Unbelievable. In that review the 7970 edges out the 670 and competes well with the 680, and you cherry pick ONE result and claim that as proof that the 670 is 20% faster than the 7970? Laughable.

In that review, the 680 > 7970 > 670. Based on that review, their prices should be $499, $449, and $399, respectively. A 7970 ghz edition should be able to stay at $499.

 

[xoleras]

GoldenTiger you need to calm down, at this point you're already worse than PRIME1 as Chief Nvidia White Knight. I honestly don't even know what the point of your posts are. Yeah, Nvidia has a more attractive card than AMD right now... we get it. Please move on.

QFT

All of the sales/yield stuff is purely speculation, who cares anyway? Just enjoy what you have. Nvidia definitely won this round in terms of performance at that price point, kudos to them....no need to troll or gloat over it ...thats pretty ridiculous...

 

[GoldenTiger]

QFT

All of the sales/yield stuff is purely speculation, who cares anyway? Just enjoy what you have. Nvidia definitely won this round in terms of performance at that price point, kudos to them....no need to troll or gloat over it ...thats pretty ridiculous...

It's not speculation, it's sourced info by reviewers. No one's gloating, we're just "talking shop" about graphics cards... not sure why you take offense to that.

 

[PRIME1]

It seems a lot of people want to pay an "AMD tax". Good for them.

They do need your charity these days.

 

[xoleras]

It's not speculation, it's sourced info by reviewers. No one's gloating, we're just "talking shop" about graphics cards... not sure why you take offense to that.

I don't take offense at all. I just don't care. I don't care about how many cards AMD or nvidia sells, i'm also using nvidia hardware in my gaming PC. This isn't aimed at you directly, but some people see the need to gloat/troll and I just find that ridiculous, or maybe i'm misinterpreting it. Whatever floats your boat.

And the poster above trolling, nice!

 

[reaper12]

You are such a negative person with very bad intentions. You are not just a Nvidia fanboi but a particularly manipulative person who distorts information and constantly spreads FUD about AMD.

Well said Raghu, GoldenTiger is exactly what you say. Worse than Prime1 really.

 

[GoldenTiger]

Well said Raghu, GoldenTiger is exactly what you say. Worse than Prime1 really.

Really?

"Soandso doesn't agree with me, they're negative and mean! They're manipulative fud-spreaders!" In my case /sarcasm, but amazingly a few of you actually think that . Linking sources for facts and providing reasons for your opinions is not spreading FUD, hate to break it to you people.

 

[Bumrush]

Jeez... 7970 for 449.99 on the Egg with free shipping.... No reference..

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102982

Feeling like I made a mistake moving so fast on the Gigabyte 670.. At $449.99 with this amount of overclocking headroom you are getting a heck of a deal on the 7970.. Either way I should be good as I don't see myself adding a second monitor anytime soon.

 

[albertyouwrong]

Even if the 7950 and 670 performed exactly the same, AMD would need to drop their price simply because their drivers give me headaches compared to Nvidia. But, since the 670 beats the 7950, I think $350 is a fair price.

Unless I'm missing something here, I don't think "clock for clock" arguments carry any weight. Honestly it doesn't matter to me if AMD's offering at 100mhz can beat Nvidia's at 1000mhz or vice versa. Price point, frame rates, and power draw is what matters to me.

Also, it'd be unethical for companies to price their product based on how much you could overclock it(beyond factory boost). If that were the case, Intel should've sold their unlocked Sandy Bridge models for more.

 

[raghu78]

Really?

"Soandso doesn't agree with me, they're negative and mean! They're manipulative fud-spreaders!" In my case /sarcasm, but amazingly a few of you actually think that . Linking sources for facts and providing reasons for your opinions is not spreading FUD, hate to break it to you people.

These are the facts
1. Both cards are good performers.
2. HD 7970 has 1 Ghz editions routinely hitting 1125 on stock voltage. With stock voltage on MSI Afterburner even upto 1150 - 1200.
3. With extra voltage HD 7970 1 Ghz editions do 1250 - 1300 Mhz.
4. 680 OC editions do 1.3 Ghz
5. The most demanding games are often the best indicators of performance
6. In the last 12 months these are the most demanding games and this is how the cards fare overclocked

BF3 - tie
Alan wake - clear win HD 7970 OC
Crysis 2 - clear win HD 7970 OC
Batman Arkham city - clear win GTX 680 OC
Shogun 2 Total War - clear win HD 7970 OC
latest game patch with latest GTX 680 drivers has butchered performance . Even if perf improves to pre patch levels GTX 680 OC will be marginally ahead <= 5%
Witcher 2 - clear win HD 7970 OC
Anno 2070 - clear win hd 7970 OC

AMD wins more of the demanding games.

7. Nvidia fanbois won't accept. They will want games like Skyrim where GTX 680 OC wins marginally over HD 7970 OC. But both cards would be doing 70+ fps at 2560 x 1600 maxed out. Show them without a fraps counter and without telling which card is running in which system. They won't be able to tell a difference. cause both will play equally well.

8. Not to forget old benchmark heavyweights like Crysis Warhead, Metro 2033 run faster on HD 7970 OC. and that too much faster > 20%. Incidentally these are the games where GTX 680 is bandwidth constrained and it gains < 20% perf wrt GTX 580.

9. GoldenTiger can't handle this truth. For him its back to square one. He will start telling ref HD 7970 is the only HD 7970 card. And that only titles in which Nvidia does well matter.

The more things change the more they remain the same . GoldenTiger

 

[ELox]

I picked up my 7950 for $349 just over a week ago. I feel that's a very fair price especially with the 3 free games deal going on.

The 7950 is pretty darn close to the performance of the 670 and at $349 I think it was well priced.

The 7970 should probably drop to about $419-$429.

 

[PRIME1]

Here is why AMD needs to drop their price. The 7970 is now a midrange card and should be priced accordingly. Anyone who wants to pay more certainly can, just like you can pay more for an apple laptop or maybe a set of monster cables.