What Microsoft Plans To Do With Display Scaling

Megalith

Megalith

24-bit/48kHz
Staff member
Joined
Aug 20, 2006
Messages
13,000
Do you think Microsoft will ever manage to perfect display scaling on Windows? When I upgrade to a 4K display, I intend to get a huge one so I can potentially skip scaling altogether.

…classic desktop apps are unfortunately still utilizing older Windows “system scaling factors,” resulting in blurry bitmap scaling when docked on a second monitor. Other poorly displayed bitmapping desktop applications include Notepad++, Chrome, and Firefox. The Windows team is working feverishly (well maybe not for Chrome of Firefox’s sake) at improving migration tools for more complex Win32 applications.
 
Some apps don't use scaling at all, like photoshop and daz studio. Two applications that I use extensively. I had to sell my 4K display because of those.

The windows team should put things right in their own department before pointing fingers at others. W10 UI is just shambles as far as customization and the included tools and applications go. They should worry about that first.
 
This is why 40" is the minimum 4k size monitor. 110 ppi is perfect.

It's also why I eschew any tablet or laptop that goes above 1920x1080.

BB
 
Yeah, it's not like we should have been solving this 10 years ago or anything...
 
BB Gun said:
This is why 40" is the minimum 4k size monitor. 110 ppi is perfect.

It's also why I eschew any tablet or laptop that goes above 1920x1080.

BB
Click to expand...

You know eye resolution is around 2000 dpi, the only reason you think 110dpi is good, because of the size of the text in windows. But if it was scaling well, the screen could look so much crisper and more natural than now if we increased DPI.
 
tetris42 said:
Yeah, it's not like we should have been solving this 10 years ago or anything...
Click to expand...
Excuse me, 15 years ago. Linux was adding scaling support in 2001, as was Mac OS X then also. It's an embarrassment MS doesn't have a solution for this yet, I would have thought they would have been taking care of this for Windows 8 at the latest.
 
Megalith said:
Other poorly displayed bitmapping desktop applications include Notepad++, Chrome, and Firefox. The Windows team is working feverishly (well maybe not for Chrome of Firefox’s sake) at improving migration tools for more complex Win32 applications.[/I]
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what the problem they're having with those apps but I use them all the time on a QHD+ 15.6" screen and 4K 27" screen and they work great at HiDPI.
 
SLee said:
I'm not sure what the problem they're having with those apps but I use them all the time on a QHD+ 15.6" screen and 4K 27" screen and they work great at HiDPI.
Click to expand...
Chrome was a late addition to the Windows HiDPI club and the implementation feels a little odd. For me my OCD triggers at the "hot dog" menu bars which don't seem to line up right at many HiDPI levels. Firefox did HiDPI much better right off the bat tho so I am not sure what they are talking about regarding that.

A gentle reminder here that Windows Universal apps are natively DPI-aware and have no issues with scaling well to whatever resolution they are thrown on. Mostly.
 
M76 said:
You know eye resolution is around 2000 dpi, the only reason you think 110dpi is good, because of the size of the text in windows. But if it was scaling well, the screen could look so much crisper and more natural than now if we increased DPI.
Click to expand...

I was responding to the quote above mine, where it was pointed out that some apps don't scale at all......

Not talking about the benefits of retina type displays in general.

BB
 
Microsoft swore up and down on a stack of bibles that they fixed DPI scaling for the Windows 10 launch. That was after they swore they fixed it in Windows 8.

Here we are again. Microsoft's failure to have all their internal applications use their new OS' feature set, and refusal to drop legacy compatibility, again hurts the rest of the industry trying to move forward.
 
M76 said:
Some apps don't use scaling at all, like photoshop
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's kinda weird you have to switch to the tablet interface to get scaling to work. I didn't mind the small buttons on the Surface Pro, but the overall scale did throw me off a tad.
 
Megalith said:
When I upgrade to a 4K display, I intend to get a huge one so I can potentially skip scaling altogether.
Click to expand...

^This. I remember first running my triple monitor setup in portrait configuration and thinking, man it should would be sweet if it wasn't for those bezels in the middle.. A 40" 4K monitor is just that!
 
Terpfen said:
Here we are again. Microsoft's failure to have all their internal applications use their new OS' feature set, and refusal to drop legacy compatibility, again hurts the rest of the industry trying to move forward.
Click to expand...

Their refusal to drop legacy compatibility? Are you serious? And as I pointed out in the post I made earlier, it looks like the problems is mostly solved. It's just not well integrated through a UI.
 
Michaelius said:
Is there any reason they can't mimic Apple retina mechanism?
Click to expand...
No. Apple controls the hardware and software ecosystem for their stuff, so when they were developing Retina, the hardware folks and OS folks were synchronized. With Windows, the Lenovos and Dells just release whatever hardware they want, and MS has to basically figure it out after the fact.

As well, Apple has a line in the sand at OS X 10.7.5 (circa 2011) that is the earliest OS they have with any kind of Retina support (the first 15" Retina Mac shipped in 2012). Since they have another line in the sand in 2005 when they switched to Intel processors, all of the software for modern Macs is less than 10 years old. Windows on the other hand has backwards compatibility that not only is supposed to go back decades, but people get genuinely angry when their game from 1997 doesn't work in Windows 10.

HiDPI on PCs is just chaotic right now.
 
heatlesssun said:
Their refusal to drop legacy compatibility? Are you serious? And as I pointed out in the post I made earlier, it looks like the problems is mostly solved. It's just not well integrated through a UI.
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm serious. They still allow Win32 compatibility to dictate their OS feature set.
 
SuperSubZero said:
No. Apple controls the hardware and software ecosystem for their stuff, so when they were developing Retina, the hardware folks and OS folks were synchronized. With Windows, the Lenovos and Dells just release whatever hardware they want, and MS has to basically figure it out after the fact.

As well, Apple has a line in the sand at OS X 10.7.5 (circa 2011) that is the earliest OS they have with any kind of Retina support (the first 15" Retina Mac shipped in 2012). Since they have another line in the sand in 2005 when they switched to Intel processors, all of the software for modern Macs is less than 10 years old. Windows on the other hand has backwards compatibility that not only is supposed to go back decades, but people get genuinely angry when their game from 1997 doesn't work in Windows 10.

HiDPI on PCs is just chaotic right now.
Click to expand...

People aren't bitching about DPI scaling on 20 year old games. The hardware is completely irrelevant. DPI scaling in OSx works on non Apple devices.

It is fucking annoying that DPI scaling doesn't work on say.. steam. Yet it works in OSX (I run both win10 and osx). Win10 is better, but there are still some problems.


No one gives a fuck why it's not working the way it should, they only care about it working. Making excuses doesn't change people's experience.
 
Weenis said:
It is fucking annoying that DPI scaling doesn't work on say.. steam. Yet it works in OSX (I run both win10 and osx). Win10 is better, but there are still some problems.
Click to expand...

Hmm, Steam scales fine on my Surface devices. If you are having scaling issues with 10 I strongly advise to check out the link to the post I made earlier. It's solved all of the major scaling problems I've had with problematic apps.
 
SuperSubZero said:
No. Apple controls the hardware and software ecosystem for their stuff, so when they were developing Retina, the hardware folks and OS folks were synchronized. With Windows, the Lenovos and Dells just release whatever hardware they want, and MS has to basically figure it out after the fact.

As well, Apple has a line in the sand at OS X 10.7.5 (circa 2011) that is the earliest OS they have with any kind of Retina support (the first 15" Retina Mac shipped in 2012). Since they have another line in the sand in 2005 when they switched to Intel processors, all of the software for modern Macs is less than 10 years old. Windows on the other hand has backwards compatibility that not only is supposed to go back decades, but people get genuinely angry when their game from 1997 doesn't work in Windows 10.

HiDPI on PCs is just chaotic right now.
Click to expand...

I don't really see what that has to do with retina scaling.

Essentially Apple is running virtual resolution that then gets doubled and dowscaled to hardware resolution screen has.

I can use 2560x1600 screen in MBP as if it were 1280x800, 1440x900, etc...

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5996/how-the-retina-display-macbook-pro-handles-scaling
 
When I first installed Windows 10 on my desktop, Microsoft - in their wisdom - decided that my 48" 4K Samsung JS9000 should be scaled to 300%.

First thing I did was drop that back down to 100%.

I bought a large screen for the extra real estate damnit, not so I can just scale shit up, and have it look the same as if I was on a 48" 1080p screen...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top