What makes more sense, i7 920 or i7 860?

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meatfestival

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It's almost upgrade time for me (current rig in sig)

In the UK, an OEM i7 920 can be had for about £200, retail i7 860 is about £230
X58 motherboards are about £200 for the features I want. P55 ones are about £170

If I'm gonna go X58 I'll be looking at 6GB RAM, P55 I'm undecided between 4 or 8.

I am planning on overclocking.

Not interested in SLI/CF

Socket 1366 looks the more appealing route, there is the possibility to upgrade to core i9 at some point.
Socket 1156 does have lower power usage in its favour, but I understand that will be lost when overclocking?

Help!
 
In the same boat and pretty confused now.

Hoping the OP doesn't mind. :D

I would like to add one more question.

What makes more sense Socket 1366 or 1156?
 
I would do i7 920 no questions asked at today's prices. i5 is going to have to drop in price more if it's to be interesting.
 
If it's between the 920 or 860, definitely the 920. But if the 750 is also on the list, then go cheap all the way. The way I see it, it's more between the 920 or 750. Going higher end or going bang for buck value all the way. Unless you're going to be maxing out on extremely heavily threaded apps, the 750 should be good with a cheap board with 1 pci-e slot for videocard.
 
boneshack said:
If it's between the 920 or 860, definitely the 920. But if the 750 is also on the list, then go cheap all the way. The way I see it, it's more between the 920 or 750. Going higher end or going bang for buck value all the way. Unless you're going to be maxing out on extremely heavily threaded apps, the 750 should be good with a cheap board with 1 pci-e slot for videocard.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I had ruled out the 750 before because the benchmarks didn't look impressive, but I may need to re-evaluate my opinion on that because hyperthreading probably won't make a big (if any) difference in games.
 
Interesting thread guys. I guess I'll keep watching developments this week.

So far I'm thinking 920. Mostly for gaming and would like to get close to the 4Ghz mark.
 
You can get a 920 and buy only 2 sticks of ram, then you have the 860 with the added bonus of 32pci lanes. You don't get the turbo but it should not be a big difference if you oc.
 
I wouldn't count on either to drop price. That's what u get in a monolopistic enviroment.

I think the biggest issue is that our attitude of upgrding is misleading. For example, I know i will be upgrading next year, so I started to look for parts now.

For example, I look for best prices on components that keep their price; like PSU, Case, etc and it can take me 6 month to find one i want for the price I want

The more volatile compoents like memory/video card are left for last.
(I was able to pickup a reburb i7 system for below $50, upgraded video, ram, hd for inside $200) and now, except for overclocking CPU (which ins't my goal), spec wise, I have a $1k+ system

For you, if you going to use the rig for year+, then get the best bang for the buck, in the end 50 quid over 1 year isn't a big deal if it's gonna make u doubt yourself

Since the i7's proven to be beasts in overclocking, get that and forget about i5 until i9, which will be yet another socket by that time:)
 
In terms of the future, I think that the 1366 socket is where its at. Since the 1156 is geared for low/mid range.

Also only the dual cores and i7 1156's will have hyperthreading. Some people say that you won't notice the hyperthreading, however I believe that as along as the game is wrote for multi threading it will help, even if it's not "noticeable". So I wouldn't recommend the i5 quad's.


So all in all get the i7(1366's)
 
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What the 920 still brings to the table is triple channel RAM bandwidth capability and oh... well... hrmmm... uhmmm...

The 860 brings the latest tech, that PCIe controller on the die, slightly improved power efficiency, a boost in the Turbo performance when it's useful, slightly higher clockspeed (it's only 133 MHz but even so, every little bit helps I suppose), etc.

It's progress... what can you say? :)
 
Joe Average said:
What the 920 still brings to the table is triple channel RAM bandwidth capability and oh... well... hrmmm... uhmmm...

The 860 brings the latest tech, that PCIe controller on the die, slightly improved power efficiency, a boost in the Turbo performance when it's useful, slightly higher clockspeed (it's only 133 MHz but even so, every little bit helps I suppose), etc.

It's progress... what can you say? :)
Click to expand...

In Anandtech's review, they say that overclocking is hampered by the on-die PCIe. When you raise the BCLK, it also raises the PCIe frequency, which means you must overvolt and stick to 33mhz increments.

Not sure if that's as much of a big deal as they make out.

For me I think this more a question of which platform I invest in - 1366 or 1156. I don't change motherboards often (been on my trusty DFI Lanparty for over 4 years now)
 
Based on the prices you listed, they are the same price. If they are the same price, there is no question you should go with the 920.
 
Unless, of course, power and heat are a concern for you. (i.e. SFF build). In that case, 860 has some better attributes.

I'm actually wanting to hear more about the 860 "S" variant.
 
dbarron said:
Unless, of course, power and heat are a concern for you. (i.e. SFF build). In that case, 860 has some better attributes.

I'm actually wanting to hear more about the 860 "S" variant.
Click to expand...

SSF? I'm not sure I know that acronym.
 
SFF = Small Form Factor, basically a mini PC in a small chassis, like one of the Shuttle boxes, etc.
 
Joe Average said:
SFF = Small Form Factor, basically a mini PC in a small chassis, like one of the Shuttle boxes, etc.
Click to expand...

Ahh ok. Yeah, I know what a small form factor is just never seen it as SFF some how. HTPC size but with different goals. gotcha.
 
The major stumbling block for LGA1366 would probably be motherboard, as you can get Core i7 920s for $200 at Microcenter if you're fortunate to have one nearby (or have a friend who is willing to ship one out to you).

Otherwise, wait and see how prices develop with the release of i5.
 
I would get the 920.

Its a better processor espeically for the $$, and Intel knows it.......Thats why they are discontinuing it :)
 
I would get the 920. Solid overclocks, more PCI-E lanes, and more memory expansion. Turbo doesn't matter when you overclock.

The s1156 with the 860 is just a crippled 920+X58 platform IMO.
 
Syntax Error said:
Heh, silly Intel, you can't have your own products undermining your new shit! ;)
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Exactly

Its also part of the reason they came out with i7 950, its the exact same as the 920 it just has a different model# and clock speed.

Increase the Clock 15%, increase the price 300%
Discontinue the 920
Release i5's

Boom....Monopoly :)
 
If they are the same price, which it looks to be in the UK, then the 920 is a better deal than the 860 since it's faster once the max overclocking is done. Turbo mode doesn't matter when going for the max overclock.

The PCIe 33 Mhz limitation doesn't seem to be that big a deal. People were still reporting overclocks in the ~4Ghz range, which is similar enough to the average that most 920s can get.

The theoretical advantage is that the i5s would be cheaper and therefore better bang for buck than the 1366. Right now, P55 mobo prices are still a bit elevated from being so close to release date. Over time, there should be more price differentiation.

Really, it depends on what you're doing with the processor. If you're encoding videos, using lots of memory (enough to saturate the dual channel), using the full 2 x 16 lanes, or other things that fully take advantage of the extra power of the 1366, then the 920 is a better choice. If you're just doing some high res gaming that's mostly GPU limited, then the cheaper alternative that is the i5 750 is good enough for many people. Same reason people still went C2Q went the i7 first came out last year. It really should be the choice between the 750 and 920. The 860 will probably occupy the ~300 price point after the 920 gets discontinued.

There's been no word so far that I know of on the i9 drop in. If it ends up being an extreme processor only (1000$+), then for most people it's a pointless upgrade at that price point over a 920. If they phase out the 920 and insert in an i9 that is in the same price range as the 920, then that's a completely different story but so far there's not much real and reliable news on that front.
 
I love it that there are already some customer "reviews" for the i5 750. :rolleyes:

Any wonder why only a few people out of a hundred or so evaluations rate such "reviews" as helpful? ;)
 
What's calling my attention is the i5-750 temps vs the i7-920 even though the 920 still has nice temps. Just the fuzzy feeling of reaching high speeds with lower temps makes my "buy finger" itch :D

From Elite Bastards Review of the i5 750

temp-idle.png


temp-load.png
 
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so reading this thread has only left me more confused. It seems as though right now that the affordable cpus for the socket 1366 platform are going to be a thing of the past once the 920 is disco'd. And that if you want to have an affordable upgrade path that building a machine right now you should go with 1156 and a i5 750. Am i reading all this correct or just completely off base here?

by the way thanks OP for asking the question.
 
i7 860 is obviously the better choice, it is faster than the 920 out of the box, the 920 does not overclock well and it gets too much heat


those morons who say 920 is better, maybe they think since 920 is a bigger number than 860, hence it must be better.
 
I think if your looking at upgrade path you go with a 1366, so you can hop on some i9 gulftown action when it hits.
 
bangmal said:
i7 860 is obviously the better choice, it is faster than the 920 out of the box, the 920 does not overclock well and it gets too much heat


those morons who say 920 is better, maybe they think since 920 is a bigger number than 860, hence it must be better.
Click to expand...

I would like to see some benches of the 860 beating the 920 Clock for Clock.
Also it may OC better, but a maxed out 920 vs a maxed out 860.....the 920 will still do better because of hyperthreading.
 
What I have learned so far reading here and there is:

1- If you want gaming and don't care about multiple GPU's and want room for overclocking at cheaper price for almost the same performance of a 920 then go i5 750.

2- If you want multiple GPU's and can afford or find a good i7 920 for a good price and also want to multi task apps, go for the i7 920. For a little more price on CPU/Mobo. Also with choice to upgrade to newer i9's with the 1366 socket.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
17 920 no questions asked, it is by far the better choice since the 17 9xx series seem to be able to pull 4ghz overclocks in there sleep ;)
 
bigwooly said:
so reading this thread has only left me more confused. It seems as though right now that the affordable cpus for the socket 1366 platform are going to be a thing of the past once the 920 is disco'd. And that if you want to have an affordable upgrade path that building a machine right now you should go with 1156 and a i5 750. Am i reading all this correct or just completely off base here?

by the way thanks OP for asking the question.
Click to expand...

when the 920s disappear the xeon 3500s will still be around
 
bigwooly said:
so reading this thread has only left me more confused. It seems as though right now that the affordable cpus for the socket 1366 platform are going to be a thing of the past once the 920 is disco'd. And that if you want to have an affordable upgrade path that building a machine right now you should go with 1156 and a i5 750. Am i reading all this correct or just completely off base here?

by the way thanks OP for asking the question.
Click to expand...

AFAIK, there's been no firm data on when the 920 is supposed to be discontinued and no firm data on what (if anything) will replace the 920 at that price range. I've seen rumors from anything to "the 920 should have already been discontinued" to "the 920 will be around until Q3 2010."

For the 1366, the only CPU that makes sense from a price/performance point of view is the 920. The picture regarding future upgrades that are cheap is a bit unclear. There may be something to drop in at the ~300 price range or there might not be. Planning something there might be wasted energy.

On the other hand, for the 1156, if you go 750, you could upgrade to an i7 8xx some time later when they get cheaper but the extra gains might not be worth it. The performance difference between the 750 and 870 should be in numerous benchmarks out there already. Beyond that, it's Sandy Bridge and who knows what is going on with that.

So get something that meets your needs now. If you have a future upgrade, great. If not, the current line of CPUs should still be pretty solid for a while if you're just gaming. See how long the Q6600 lasted.
 
A few points of clarification are needed in this thread.
1) The 920 HAS NOT BEEN DISCONTINUED. This rumor has surfaced and been shot down several times. The last leaked road map showed the 920 continuing on.
2) 920>860 because of HT. Second, saying that a 920 doesn't overclock well is stupid. Nearly every D0 920 can go to 4.2Ghz if the mobo can support it. Most i7 CPUs are BCLK limited by the motherboard.
3) Upgrade paths do differ. If you plan on upgrading the CPU and not upgrading the motherboard (WHICH IS RARELY TO NEVER DONE, despite lots of people planning to do it), then you will not be able to get a gulftown (6 cores 12 threads) on a 1156 platform.
4) Yes, the i5 750 is cooler under load than the i7 920. It will also do 1/2 the work. If you are running the same loading (the same calculations per second) then the i7 will generate the same heat load as an i5, perhaps even less as it doesn't have onboard PCI bus etc.
5) If you are looking for a "budget" machine, you are outside of the range of a micro center, you don't plan on ever using more than one GPU, and you already have a C2D or a C2Q, you shouldn't be updating your CPU if you are planning on gaming. If you are not planning on gaming and are upgrading because you need a faster CPU but have a C2D or a C2Q, you should get the 920.
6) If you are looking for a "budget" machine, you are outside of the range of a micro center, you don't plan on ever using more than one GPU, and you do NOT have a C2D or a C2Q, you should take a serious look at the cost difference. If it is less than 50$ more out of a 700$ total build (case, PSU, mobo, ram, cpu, HDD, OS, etc) then spend the extra 50$.
7) It is i7(eye-seven), not 17(seventeen).
8) The max overclock on either an i5 is not going to be done on a 150$ mobo, by the time you get to a 200-250$ mobo there are X58s that are more than capable of pushing 4.4Ghz if you can cool it.
 
so reading all that....i7 920 it is, just gotta decide on a vid card and I'm ready to buy.
 
xXxDieselxXx said:
What's calling my attention is the i5-750 temps vs the i7-920 even though the 920 still has nice temps. Just the fuzzy feeling of reaching high speeds with lower temps makes my "buy finger" itch :D

From Elite Bastards Review of the i5 750

temp-idle.png


temp-load.png
Click to expand...

of course it's cooler, the i5 750 doesn't have hyperthreading, turn that off on the 920 and you'll get much lower temps.
 
I'm going to go with core i7 920 partially because I want an x58 system ready when the 6 core processors are available.
 
vengence said:
A few points of clarification are needed in this thread.
2) 920>860 because of HT.
4) Yes, the i5 750 is cooler under load than the i7 920. It will also do 1/2 the work. If you are running the same loading (the same calculations per second) then the i7 will generate the same heat load as an i5, perhaps even less as it doesn't have onboard PCI bus etc.
8) The max overclock on either an i5 is not going to be done on a 150$ mobo, by the time you get to a 200-250$ mobo there are X58s that are more than capable of pushing 4.4Ghz if you can cool it.
Click to expand...

@ #2. Why do a few people keep acting as if the i7 860/870 don't have HT also? ALL i7s, including the 860 and 870, are HT-enabled. Last time I checked, the 920 was 4 cores/ 8 threads, and the 860 is... 4 cores, 8 threads.

@ #4. Your statement regarding the work done at "full load", being 1/2, is rather ambiguous. I'm assuming you're basically saying: "with both processors at full load while running an application capable of supporting up to 8 threads, the 750 will be doing 1/2 the work of the 920". Please feel free to correct me if that's an incorrect assumption, because outside of that rather rare scenario for most users, I can't see where the statement that the 750 will only be capable of doing 1/2 the work at full load is justified. As we've already seen with benchmarks that are one threaded, the 750 stays relatively equal with the 920, and even in those situations where the applications are multi-threaded, it's not that far behind. The 920 will definitely be the better multi-threaded application processor, but it seems like it's mostly 920 owners who feel the need to try and diminish what the 750 can accomplish.

@ #8. While it's true that a $200+ board will be needed for i5 overclocks, for any users who are not near a MC or can't arrange to get a 920 fairly cheaply, you're still talking a $80-100 cost difference between a i5 OCing setup vs. an i7 OCing setup. Hardly an insignificant difference. That said, you were right before in that the i7 will be the better OC overall.
 
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