What is nVidia's short term plan?

Why would ATI be in such a hurry? It is unlikely that GT300 will sweep the market and 2011 is a much better time to get a new video card out after devs actually get time to make games that effectively strain the current line.

ATI is winning with the 5x series cards. Even badly overpriced they are selling like hotcakes..
 
Why people are arguing about AMD's answer for Fermi already? The thread is about nVidia's answer for AMD's HD5000 and Fermi is still no where to be seen yet.
 
Because outside of Nvidia nobody knows anything about what they plan much less an iota of what gaming performance will be. Just blah precision blah.
Their current plan is to spin damage control and drink their own cool aid http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/2...ionnaire_a_response_to_amd_s_views/index.html

We are confident that when the Fermi-based GeForce products ship that we will maintain our performance crown. Even today our GeForce GTX 285 significantly outperforms the HD 5870 in next gen games like Batman Arkham Asylum with physics. In fact, even our GeForce GTS 250 outperforms it.

In other words: short term is to bend over for now and smile.
 
You mean for their mainstream parts? They have enough parts available for every price segment. Or did you mean for their high end parts? I think that they can slap together two HD5870s in form of HD5870 X2 to compete with a single Fermi without any problem. nVidia could get the performance crown with a dual Fermi card but that's it, the mainstream market is where the money are. Do you think that people care that much about the GTX 295?

what do you consider "mainstream parts" ???? Surely not the just released, nowhere to be found 5850/70 cards.
nvidia has all kinds of video cards, 9000 series and 200 series. It's not like they fell off the earth.
One of the best selling video cards around is still the GeForce 5200 for crying out loud.

While I agree, ATI has climbed back up to the top with the 5870 (I bought one to check it out,BTW) and they have an excellent line-up in the 4800 series, nvidia didn't leave town.

Do people care about the GTX 295??? Most people don't even know there is/are nvidia and ATI, for crying out loud.

People in this forum spend more on a video card than most people do on an entire computer. Imbedded graphics are where the money is.......not even "mainstream", merely integrated graphics.

We are way too worried about less than 5% of the market. Face it, we are not the target for these companies.
 
what do you consider "mainstream parts" ???? Surely not the just released, nowhere to be found 5850/70 cards.
nvidia has all kinds of video cards, 9000 series and 200 series. It's not like they fell off the earth.
One of the best selling video cards around is still the GeForce 5200 for crying out loud.

While I agree, ATI has climbed back up to the top with the 5870 (I bought one to check it out,BTW) and they have an excellent line-up in the 4800 series, nvidia didn't leave town.

Do people care about the GTX 295??? Most people don't even know there is/are nvidia and ATI, for crying out loud.

People in this forum spend more on a video card than most people do on an entire computer. Imbedded graphics are where the money is.......not even "mainstream", merely integrated graphics.

We are way too worried about less than 5% of the market. Face it, we are not the target for these companies.

Did you even read the OP? I'm talking about the HD 5850, HD 5770, HD 5750. All of which will be fighting against the GT200 series in term of performance but have a lower price.
 
GTX260 - $110-$125
GTX275 - $150-$170
GTX285 - $220-$230
GTX295 - $300-$340

If it's false that nvidia is Pulling out of the high/mid end market, then to even be considered for purchase next to there newly appointed 5xxx competition they MUST price their cards as I displayed, if not then there are going to be a lot of shelves and warehouses stacked with GTX cards...I mean think about it, the 5750 is going to be $109 and is as fast as the GTX260....what kind of idiot in their right mind would pay $165 (the lowest price for a GTX260 on newegg ATM) when you can get the same performance for less money PLUS DX11? Even the most die hard fanbois will see that move as purely idiotic and insulting to their own intelligence. BUT if it's only a $10 differnce for the GTX260, then if your a fanboi, or just want to use physx in your games, you can justify spending $10 over the 5750. Seeing as building a GTX260 isn't cheap, it's doubtfull nVidia will want to take the bath and loose a ton of money selling $170 cards for $120, which lends some credence to charlies article at Semi-Accurate. However, nVidia isn't stupid, and they want to keep mindshare in the public, so they will hopefully collapse the prices on the GTX and just take the bath so as not to lose mindshare. I mean, look at the PS3, Sony has been in a distant 3rd place this entire console generation and that's because they were arrogant and decided to sell the PS3 at $600. However, if they decided to just take the insurmountable hit and sell the PS3 for $300 at launch, they would have destroyed any headstart the 360 had and whatever effect the Wii had with the Zombie-Public. But not wanting to lose money had Sony overprice the console and lose the market leadership that they worked so hard to build with the PS1 and PS2. nVidia is kinda in the same situation. Like it or not, they are the #1 graphic card supplier, BUT that can change overnight, with nVidia stubbornly sticking to either overpriced videocards or pulling out of the market entirely. I know nVidia is smart, unlike sony, and will simple collapse the prices on the GTX series, just to keep people from moving over to ATI. Heck I'm in that situation, I have a system with 2 8800GT's in SLI, but the cards are dying and need to get replaced. I REALLY want to stick with nVidia for this system, but if the GTX260's don't drop to the $100-$110 level, I have no problem getting a Radeon 5750, and I think a lot of people are in that kinda situation...Well maybe not with TWO dying 8800GT's, but they are looking to upgrade, and they'd like to stick with nVidia, but it would be downright foolish to spend an extra $60 for a hotter card that devours more energy and has less features, just to stick with a brand.

Nice wall-o-text you got there.
 
Except that it is! or at the latest Q4 2010....sorry to break it to you.

Well, of course it is...eventually. But not Q3 2010 that's for sure, as was the previous debunked "rumor's" case. Obviously you missed that part of the thread :)
 
What is nVidia's short term plan?

TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!




ps sorry could not resist :D I hope there are some fans here....
 
Well, of course it is...eventually. But not Q3 2010 that's for sure, as was the previous debunked "rumor's" case. Obviously you missed that part of the thread :)

"But not Q3 2010 that's for sure"

How the fuck do you know that? dubunked? ATI probably isn't exactly sure when they will release it...It could easily be 3Q 2010.
 
"But not Q3 2010 that's for sure"

How the fuck do you know that? dubunked? ATI probably isn't exactly sure when they will release it...It could easily be 3Q 2010.

That's because you have no idea how the industry works. You need to get R&D costs back in 6-9 months time. The most that happens in that period, is a refresh, to yield more profits on current hardware, since costs in production go down with a shrink.
This is even more important, when a company is bleeding money like AMD. They need to get their investment back, or there is no money to put in R&D for new chips.
 
No matter how bogus Fudo is at times even if this isn't true I would believe him over this tool any day.
 
Nvidia's short term plan was to hold up a GTX 285 at a press conference and say that it was the new GTX 300.

I heard that this was due to Doc Ock's fusion generator not being ready for the show to power the card. Not due to the card actually not existing.
 
Did you even read the OP? I'm talking about the HD 5850, HD 5770, HD 5750. All of which will be fighting against the GT200 series in term of performance but have a lower price.

Yes I did.
I do not consider the 5000 series "mainstream" by any stretch.....even the 5850.
The 4000 series has/is competing against the 200 series since it's release. I have not seen any reviews of a 5770 card, have you???This assumes the 5700 line is "mainstream, whatever that means???? and we have no knowlege of what nvidia has in store for their 300 series release. I have no position to speculate.

As of right now, there is no competition for the 5000 series due to the new features of DX11 and multimonitor gaming.......as it stands......and there isn't much inventory to be had anyway.

nvidia will be fine......this whole thread is just thinly disguised ATI chest thumping and chicken little falling sky perpetuated by that guy at Semiaccurate, why don't you ask him for a job????

As I said, most people on the street could care less.....or don't even know what we are talking about........
Lastly, there is not a single game out that can tax a 4890 or GTX 285 to any great length....so I can understand nvidia's position, why be in a hurry???

For now, I will enjoy my new 5870......if it kicks my 285s they'll be for sale.
 
Nvidia would be in a hurry, standing there taking a picture with that can-o-whoop-ass if they could....
 
That's because you have no idea how the industry works. You need to get R&D costs back in 6-9 months time. The most that happens in that period, is a refresh, to yield more profits on current hardware, since costs in production go down with a shrink.
This is even more important, when a company is bleeding money like AMD. They need to get their investment back, or there is no money to put in R&D for new chips.

Lol, you sounded like an nVidia version of Charlie, got a small info on something, put a little spin to it. :p
Yes I did.
I do not consider the 5000 series "mainstream" by any stretch.....even the 5850.
The 4000 series has/is competing against the 200 series since it's release. I have not seen any reviews of a 5770 card, have you???This assumes the 5700 line is "mainstream, whatever that means???? and we have no knowlege of what nvidia has in store for their 300 series release. I have no position to speculate.

As of right now, there is no competition for the 5000 series due to the new features of DX11 and multimonitor gaming.......as it stands......and there isn't much inventory to be had anyway.

nvidia will be fine......this whole thread is just thinly disguised ATI chest thumping and chicken little falling sky perpetuated by that guy at Semiaccurate, why don't you ask him for a job????

As I said, most people on the street could care less.....or don't even know what we are talking about........
Lastly, there is not a single game out that can tax a 4890 or GTX 285 to any great length....so I can understand nvidia's position, why be in a hurry???

For now, I will enjoy my new 5870......if it kicks my 285s they'll be for sale.
Guess that you missed the news:

All I know is how the cards perform in games, and I'm impressed with the results. It was better than I thought it would be. Can't really say anymore than that until the launch next week. Stay tuned to [H] for all your gaming hardware goodness, I've got a lot of neat things planned to test this month.
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1457881
http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1034730172&postcount=6
 
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Why people are arguing about AMD's answer for Fermi already? The thread is about nVidia's answer for AMD's HD5000 and Fermi is still no where to be seen yet.
Because Fermi will be NVIDIA's answer to these mainstream and mid-range parts, but that time isn't here yet. It's fairly simple:

A) NVIDIA could but most likely wouldn't sell the current-generation chips and other parts at a loss unless they only did so to clear stock, and they probably don't have much of that as it is. AIBs certainly wouldn't do the same unless they are also clearing stock. This is the 'basis' for Charlie's rumour regarding phasing out the GTX 2xx series.

B) NVIDIA has no other parts in the works (according to the lack of any rumours). Their investment has been in Fermi, and it's with reduced versions of Fermi that will counter AMD's current and pending lineup. Fermi's designed to be scaled down easily, as NVIDIA's stated, so they can counter at all price points.

So, that's obviously why we keep bringing up Fermi. Fermi is NVIDIA's short term plan, as it stands.

Lol, you sounded like an nVidia version of Charlie, got a small info on something, put a little spin to it.
He's right, to a certain extent, though. AMD doesn't have the monetary resources to keep blowing through money without allotting sufficient time to recoup any of it. AMD won't start to see major income until their mainstream parts are out and begin to sell at a decent rate, and the latter's something that won't necessarily start happening as early as next week.
 
Why would ATI be in such a hurry? It is unlikely that GT300 will sweep the market and 2011 is a much better time to get a new video card out after devs actually get time to make games that effectively strain the current line.

ATI is winning with the 5x series cards. Even badly overpriced they are selling like hotcakes..

I wouldn't say the 5800 series is badly overpriced. The cheapest 295 on newegg is still $470.
AMD could've charged alot more than they are.
 
As I said, most people on the street could care less.....or don't even know what we are talking about.
Point?

Lastly, there is not a single game out that can tax a 4890 or GTX 285 to any great length....so I can understand nvidia's position, why be in a hurry?
I'm not sure what this means. There are still a number of games (Crysis, Stalker, Battle Forge, H.A.W.X., etc.) that can bring those cards to a crawl at high resolutions and using their highest settings. It's all about how you enjoy games. Sure, you can tone things down, and the games will still play, but let's not pretend there is no room for improvement.
 
I wouldn't say the 5800 series is badly overpriced. The cheapest 295 on newegg is still $470.
AMD could've charged alot more than they are.
+1.

Why do people keep saying this? ATI's DX11 cards are forcing prices down on NVIDIA's DX10 cards. Doesn't that tell you something?
 
He's right, to a certain extent, though. AMD doesn't have the monetary resources to keep blowing through money without allotting sufficient time to recoup any of it. AMD won't start to see major income until their mainstream parts are out and begin to sell at a decent rate, and the latter's something that won't necessarily start happening as early as next week.

Talking about AMD's monetary resources at this moment, is a moot point really. AMD has plenty of capital and cash flow because of the dramatic changes they have made recently. That and the fact it hasn't affected their releases of video cards...

Really no one should be surprised that their next generation card should be coming out Q3 2010 or Q4 2010. Both Nvidia and AMD usually come out with a new generation of video cards every year and I'm sure Nvidia will have something to counter the "R900" when it comes out...
 
Personally, I think the 5800 series is priced competitively with today's prices, and provides an excellent price/performance ratio. Yes, they are more expensive than the 4800 series was when they were launched, but they are a heck of a lot less than the NV equivalents were at their launch.
 
Because Fermi will be NVIDIA's answer to these mainstream and mid-range parts, but that time isn't here yet. It's fairly simple:

A) NVIDIA could but most likely wouldn't sell the current-generation chips and other parts at a loss unless they only did so to clear stock, and they probably don't have much of that as it is. AIBs certainly wouldn't do the same unless they are also clearing stock. This is the 'basis' for Charlie's rumour regarding phasing out the GTX 2xx series.

B) NVIDIA has no other parts in the works (according to the lack of any rumours). Their investment has been in Fermi, and it's with reduced versions of Fermi that will counter AMD's current and pending lineup. Fermi's designed to be scaled down easily, as NVIDIA's stated, so they can counter at all price points.

So, that's obviously why we keep bringing up Fermi. Fermi is NVIDIA's short term plan, as it stands.


He's right, to a certain extent, though. AMD doesn't have the monetary resources to keep blowing through money without allotting sufficient time to recoup any of it. AMD won't start to see major income until their mainstream parts are out and begin to sell at a decent rate, and the latter's something that won't necessarily start happening as early as next week.

So until Fermi is out (I wonder when would that be), nVidia would be doing nothing, not even a price cut? Btw I don't mind people keep bringing up Fermi but I wonder why people are bringing up the question "what is AMD's answer to Fermi?" already.

It's not like Fermi is out already. Who knows when it will come out, how will it perform and how much will it cost. Depending on the Fermi's release timing, performance and price, AMD's answer to Fermi could just as well be a price cut, a refresh, a dual GPU card or maybe they won't need to do anything at all.
 
Talking about AMD's monetary resources at this moment, is a moot point really. AMD has plenty of capital and cash flow because of the dramatic changes they have made recently. That and the fact it hasn't affected their releases of video cards...

Really no one should be surprised that their next generation card should be coming out Q3 2010 or Q4 2010. Both Nvidia and AMD usually come out with a new generation of video cards every year and I'm sure Nvidia will have something to counter the "R900" when it comes out...

This
Wake up to reality my [H] nvidia fans its obvious AMD has been on track in the Graphics card division and kicking ass. They're losing the war on the cpu side doesn't mean it will effect their other fronts. (and vice versa)
With Fermi releasing late that does not bode well for whatever comes after ...its looking like another probable Q1-Q2 2011 release for Nvidia future.
 
Lies and crooked business practices?

This
Wake up to reality my [H] nvidia fans its obvious AMD has been on track in the Graphics card division and kicking ass. They're losing the war on the cpu side doesn't mean it will effect their other fronts. (and vice versa)
With Fermi releasing late that does not bode well for whatever comes after ...its looking like another probable Q1-Q2 2011 release for Nvidia future.

Last I hear AMD has the lead in marketshare for discrete notebook gpus and that type of thing doesn't happen overnight. I would love to see the numbers for desktop parts.
 
So until Fermi is out (I wonder when would that be), nVidia would be doing nothing, not even a price cut?
Potentially, yeah. They simply aren't in a position where they have many options. At this point, I think it's between not earning much revenue off the GTX 2xx series or losing money by doing price cuts. Considering that the price cuts would need to be pretty significant to compete with AMD's offerings (probably), NVIDIA is effectively stuck.

Three months isn't much time, but it is fortunately plenty of time to get people (and OEMs) excited about Fermi.
 
Potentially, yeah. They simply aren't in a position where they have many options. At this point, I think it's between not earning much revenue off the GTX 2xx series or losing money by doing price cuts. Considering that the price cuts would need to be pretty significant to compete with AMD's offerings (probably), NVIDIA is effectively stuck.

Three months isn't much time, but it is fortunately plenty of time to get people (and OEMs) excited about Fermi.

I really find it hard to believe that they are losing money on a gpu based on one and a half year old tech on a die shrink. That just sounds like FUD to me.
 
I wonder if the B&M shops are still selling nVidia at a normal rate, as in before the HD5800s hit the shelves?
 
Coming from the guy that fell for the mockup card and took 3 pages of convincing thats a pretty hilarious quote.
"Convincing"? How quaint. Your trolling tactics could use a little work.
 
If I were nvidia I would lower the price on gtx285's, and gtx 275's and sell them practicably at cost with no margins to keep mind share...

The gtx 260 seems like its too expensive to produce, and with 55 nm now mature disabling perfectly good GT200b chips to produce them doesn't make sense. Maybe they'll release a card with the 260's slow(compared to gtx275) memory but full 240 shaders.
 
I wonder if the B&M shops are still selling nVidia at a normal rate, as in before the HD5800s hit the shelves?

People still shop for this stuff at B&M's??? How.... quaint.

AMD is slaughtering NV right now, NV's 300 has to be incredibly powerful or priced much lower. Either way, it's already too late for NV this round.

Short term, NV needs to cut their prices drastically.
 
Yes very quaint isn't it.
Believe it or not, most computer users walk into the nearest B&M when they need a upgrade if they don't order a new OEM or grab what's on the shelve. We all know their salemen aren't always up to date on tech releases.

Have you ever been in a B&M and listen to the customer and try not to laugh at the saleman's answer/sale pitch?
 
I never said they're losing money on it. Read better.

Considering that a GTx285 is nothing more than a year and a half old card on a die shrink with a speed bump with a price about the same as the GTX 280 over a year ago I think that they could afford a decent price cut. No one knows their manufacturing costs, it's just speculation mostly from Charlie. Does that make you feel better?:rolleyes:
 
However, if they decided to just take the insurmountable hit and sell the PS3 for $300 at launch, they would have destroyed any headstart the 360 had ... But not wanting to lose money had Sony overprice the console and lose the market leadership that they worked so hard to build with the PS1 and PS2.

Insurmountable is a good word. "not capable of being overcome". All products are always designed, from the producers point of view, to make money. To the point: Sony is a company, companies make money. Like everything else, being the market leader has effects on your bottom line. If, as you say, the PS3 R&D cost was insurmountable at $300, then selling said product at $300 would make the product non-profitable. I'm sure, even at $600, IBM's bill was bigger than the revenue off the PS3 thus far. If the money was ever recouped in game sales we may never know.

And this isn't quite the same situation. Console rev's are 3 or 4 years (looks like this one's going to break 5 though). GPU generations are usually 18-24 months.

Sorry, but that "info" has already been debunked:
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1344312&postcount=25

Ok silus comon man. Your not allowed to link to a singular post on another forum calling Nordic hardware (which I've bookmarked because they're pretty good about rumors) a bunch of liers. Thats not debunking --thats tweeting. You're absolutely right, 12 months is a strech, and your absolutely right, were talking about crystal ball reading, so you're probably looking at good wide error bars, but as far as I'm concerned, if Nordic's got a rumor that says ATI's got an accelerated launch schedule, I'm willing to believe it.

...One of the best selling video cards around is still the GeForce 5200 for crying out loud...

...People in this forum spend more on a video card than most people do on an entire computer. Imbedded graphics are where the money is.......not even "mainstream", merely integrated graphics.

We are way too worried about less than 5% of the market. Face it, we are not the target for these companies.


allow me to link you to a good [H]ard mountain of data.

Long story short, your right, the enthusiast impact is smaller than you might think, but it does impact the industry. And as it turns out, Nvidia's mind share wasn't nearly as big as I thought it was (I can remember going on CSS servers that had armies of Nvidiots. What happened to these armies? Wallets dried up?)

Since they're change in presentation format they don't say explicitly like they used to, but this is data based off millions of PC's. Bearing the brand of "the top dog" means alot in consumers minds, and I'm willing to bet the marketing strategy is: capture the technorati, get the mind share there, sales.

That's because you have no idea how the industry works. You need to get R&D costs back in 6-9 months time. The most that happens in that period, is a refresh, to yield more profits on current hardware, since costs in production go down with a shrink.
This is even more important, when a company is bleeding money like AMD. They need to get their investment back, or there is no money to put in R&D for new chips.

Right, because the graphics hardware business has a long standing history of being predictable.

Regardless, to the OP's original question:

Continue to sell the GTS series, and keep the GTX295 available just because it will hold mind share --it will bleed that mind share, but you still need it as a vanguard. Come Fermi (Q2 10), they'll have a product which will outperform a single RV870.

Actually thats where things get interesting isn't it. (Brent I'd like to hear your answer on this):

Who thinks Nvidia's thermal engineers are up to putting two 300W chips in a single package? Can it be done?
 
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