What is a current easy programming language?

Under Windows, it's probably going to be easier to develop something if the primary purpose is to make a Windows application. So I'd recommend C# in that case. VS Express is free and good enough for most projects.

From the general perspective, Python is a nice language to start from.
 
StoleMyOwnCar said:
No actually I shouldn't let this go, what exactly's wrong with Perl?! >=(
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I don't think anybody has said something is something wrong with Perl (although it may or may not be a good choice).

The issue is that this thread is super shitty.
 
Definitely C#. Visual Studio is an awesome IDE to quickly code basic Windows applications up and get them running in no time.
 
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That's what happens when you're working on 2 projects at once and try to comment in a thread. Meant IDE.
 
I was just trying to give him a large overview of what I've worked with and my experiences with each language since he hadn't decided on the application 100%. If you mean he just wants an answer, I'll give him a more concise and to the point set of definitions:

Priority list for a music player application:
1. C#, because I actually personally witnessed someone implementing a similar program in it, and GUI design appears to be very easy in it. Caveats: windows, dependency loading for libraries.
2. Java, which seems to also have relatively easy GUI design, and I witnessed some people making a game in short time using it. Caveat is that it's Java.
3. Perl. Old language with quite a few libraries, and it's fast. Caveat is that finding those libraries may be difficult.
Un-numbered: HTML/CGI/PHP/Javascript/JQuery: This approach is kind of... hard to place, because it's already been built... in Python.
https://github.com/devsnd/cherrymusic
And various bits of this approach are also libraries in and of themselves, such as the player used:
http://jplayer.org/
I'm guessing they use Python to transcode the files into a format jplayer accepts and then play it back in the browser. I'm not really sure how JPlayer gets streaming (some of which is Flash depending on the browser) rather than outright file loading working, but yeah. There you go.

In terms of economical, easy to use language, this goes all over the place, but I'd say web development and databases (MySQL/Oracle/etc) is one of the most economical. Web sites can be loaded anywhere. All you need is a browser. That's it. A browser. All of the languages involved are easy enough to where you can always make steady progress on them (especially with JQuery). The amount of libraries made for everything imaginable for we dev is also staggering. Depending on how much you care to actually learn the language, you can just opt to just load a library that very likely exists for your exact purpose (or stackoverflow code). There are obvious limitations to what you can do, but web development for frontends/data/etc. Is something that any modern company needs. Databases house data, and you're living in an information age. Take a wild guess at how important it is.
 
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Try this...

Here's a link to learning python in 4-months via an MIT OCW course: http://blog.agupieware.com/2013/12/online-learning-teach-yourself-python.html

Part two of the article, provides you with benchmarks (quizzes, etc.): http://blog.agupieware.com/2014/01/benchmarks-teach-yourself-python-in.html

And here's the actual MIT course it follows: http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electric...science-and-programming-spring-2011/index.htm

Follow this and, in four months, you should have a solid foundation in python.
 
StoleMyOwnCar said:
3. Perl. Old language with quite a few libraries, and it's fast. Caveat is that finding those libraries may be difficult.
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Fast is an, uh...interesting, word. I would avoid using it unqualified like that.
 
Ah, sorry. I meant compared to Python, mainly. I was considering switching to using Python at work but then I saw it was either as slow or slower at most things
http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=perl&lang2=python3&data=u64

Then again that's specific apps, and I didn't really research too deep into those. Of course it's going to be multitudes slower than C++...


Lisp might be an interesting thing for me to try learning, though. I think I tried looking into it once before, it has self-writing programs and other fun things.
 
StoleMyOwnCar said:
Ah, sorry. I meant compared to Python, mainly. I was considering switching to using Python at work but then I saw it was either as slow or slower at most things
http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=perl&lang2=python3&data=u64
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The link you posted suggests that Perl and Python are of comparable speeds.

Most dynamic programming languages, such as Perl and Python, are generally characterized as being slow (and for good reason).
 
"We" aren't talking about Lisp. No one was "communicating" with another individual about Lisp until you. I was just remarking that I was considering it as something to learn on the side since it looks fast and capable.

In terms of off-topic or uncalled for I'm not sure what the heck you people are going on about if you consider these discussions in that field anyway. Topics tend to diverge from their original purpose as time goes on naturally to explore sub-discussions and this is far from the maximum amount of divergence I have seen a topic undergo. In fact, there is relatively little.

jimmyb said:
The link you posted suggests that Perl and Python are of comparable speeds.

Most dynamic programming languages, such as Perl and Python, are generally characterized as being slow (and for good reason).
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Python 2x to 4x slower in 4/9 tests, comparable in 4/9 tests, and faster in only 1 tests. I'm not sure how that equates to "comparable" as taking 1/2 to 1/4th the time is significant. It's just not a gigantic difference like C/C++ vs almost anything. Yes they're in the same speed bracket, but that doesn't change which one is generally slower or faster.
 
StoleMyOwnCar said:
Python 2x to 4x slower in 4/9 tests, comparable in 4/9 tests, and faster in only 1 tests. I'm not sure how that equates to "comparable" as taking 1/2 to 1/4th the time is significant.
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It equates to being "comparable" by being faster or comparable in a majority of the tests.

2-3x speed difference in a minority of tests isn't a lot in terms of the spectrum of common programming languages, where you will sometimes have 2-3 orders of magnitude performance difference. The default implementations of Python and Perl are already on the slow end of that spectrum.


StoleMyOwnCar said:
It's just not a gigantic difference like C/C++ vs almost anything. Yes they're in the same speed bracket, but that doesn't change which one is generally slower or faster.
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A handful of tests isn't going to tell you which language is generally faster. Perl allegedly will do string processing faster than Python; you can imagine that some things Python will be faster at.
 
jimmyb said:
It equates to being "comparable" by being faster or comparable in a majority of the tests.

2-3x speed difference in a minority of tests isn't a lot in terms of the spectrum of common programming languages, where you will sometimes have 2-3 orders of magnitude performance difference. The default implementations of Python and Perl are already on the slow end of that spectrum.
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All you're doing here is rounding. An analogy is that I'm saying 0.75 is 0.75 and you're saying that it might as well be 0 when put on a scale of 0->1000. I agreed that they were in the same ballpark, but "faster or comparable" in a majority of tests is "faster or comparable" not "just comparable". It all depends on the scale you're looking at.

Furthermore, this is a rather pointless debate, which for all the talk of keeping this thread clean, fills it with clutter that truly is useless.

A handful of tests isn't going to tell you which language is generally faster. Perl allegedly will do string processing faster than Python; you can imagine that some things Python will be faster at.
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There aren't many "generally"'s that are worthwhile to a programmer anyway, but I'm pretty sure that properly done assembly will "generally" outspeed any language. That being said everything is application specific, and in many cases your major interests for common user applications probably won't be their processing power (weaker embedded devices aside, where you definitely want to use C/C++), but how long it's going to take you to get this or that done in this or that language. There are different languages that specialize in different things. That's all there is to it. A user on OCN pointed out that Perl's generic regex engine is actually slower for some complex searches for instance.
 
Thanks for all the suggestions. I apologize. I never meant for this to turn into a slug-fest...lol!

I will be more concise. I am looking at coding a music/audio player type program that could eventually be able to do some type of "radio automation". i.e. basically step through audio files likes music, advertisements, voice tracks, use something like # to jump to a timed event...etc.

When I mean economical...I remember years ago when I coded in Visual Basic, Visual Basic, and all the C languages were crazy expensive for a personal copy of the programming software...I'm talking hundreds of dollars. This project is basically a personal pet project and that is one reason I was looking for a easy, economical language. Not looking to shell out $500.00 for something to play around with. I'm not planning on running any races with it either. It doesn't have to be the fastest language, as long as it can play audio files without lag or skipping it should be fine. I prefer something that does not require a web browser to have to run. Something free would be nice and that has a lot of available help online like videos, libraries, and forums.I am no longer in college (lol) so no more Microsoft student discounts on software :)
 
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Thought of another question. When some of you are talking about some of these languages not being compiled (or needing a compiling)...like Python, then how do the program run? i.e. I mean in my days of Visual Basic you would create the program and save or compile it into an .exe program. How does Python and other languages do it if they do not use a compiler?
 
DarkCyber said:
Thought of another question. When some of you are talking about some of these languages not being compiled (or needing a compiling)...like Python, then how do the program run? i.e. I mean in my days of Visual Basic you would create the program and save or compile it into an .exe program. How does Python and other languages do it if they do not use a compiler?
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They are mostly talking about whether or not the code is compiled completely into machine instructions x86, x64, etc. Or, whether the code is run through an interpreter. Python uses an interpreter. To run the program, you have to download and install the python interpreter.
 
aL Mac said:
They are mostly talking about whether or not the code is compiled completely into machine instructions x86, x64, etc. Or, whether the code is run through an interpreter. Python uses an interpreter. To run the program, you have to download and install the python interpreter.
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OK. So, if I write a program with Python and say I give someone a copy of that program then it will not be a stand alone .exe that runs by itself? They would also have to install the Python interpreter for the program to run?

Hmmm, I may have to revise my question to what are the easy and economical compiled languages...lol!
 
Yes, but you can bundle your application and the runtime into a single executable.
 
My suggestion is C#. Visual studio is a great IDE and you can make GUI's easily, it should run on any windows box (because they all come with .NET now). It's a great language, with a great framework, and it really has a ton of language features that will expose you to most programming concepts.

If you want it to run on Mac/linux maybe Java.. or you can still use C# and use Mono on *nix
 
aL Mac said:
My suggestion is C#. Visual studio is a great IDE and you can make GUI's easily, it should run on any windows box (because they all come with .NET now). It's a great language, with a great framework, and it really has a ton of language features that will expose you to most programming concepts.

If you want it to run on Mac/linux maybe Java.. or you can still use C# and use Mono on *nix
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Is there an actual economical version of C# available? Just searching around the net looks like most of the C stuff is still pricey. Again, I'm not looking at shelling out $1,000 for something.
 
I don't understand "economical". C is free to develop for, as is C#. There's a free edition of Visual Studio that is perfectly ample for the vast majority of small projects.
 
wonderfield said:
I don't understand "economical". C is free to develop for, as is C#. There's a free edition of Visual Studio that is perfectly ample for the vast majority of small projects.
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Sorry, maybe I was looking at C++ when I checking prices. Thanks will check into these!
 
All you need to develop for C++ is any text editor and the GCC compiler. It's all free.

So is a free version of Visual Studio for C#.

Or for Java, again all you need is any text editor and the free "javac" java compiler.

Another similar one to look at would be Python which is in the same boat, just need a text editor and the free compiler.

If you learn any one of these 4 languages it will be really easy to transition to one-another. Python being the most different one.
 
DarkCyber said:
Sorry, maybe I was looking at C++ when I checking prices.
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Checking prices on what? The official ISO standard? Compilers? Development environments?

The only thing that has a mandatory cost is the current ISO standard. Unless you're an experienced developer who needs to understand the nuances of the language, you don't need to purchase it, and draft standards are always largely relevant and freely available. There are numerous free compilers. There are numerous free development environments. You do not have to pay licensing fees to develop or distribute C or C++ applications. The minimum cost to develop and distribute C++ applications is zero.
 
A better question would be: What language requires money to develop with it?
 
aL Mac said:
A better question would be: What language requires money to develop with it?
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Not many. It's not really in the best interest to charge for a language due to how many and how competitive they are. Nobody would use yours if you charged for it.
 
I know this is probably a dumb question...but I will ask it anyways.Back in the day that I programmed some I purchased Microsoft Visual Basic...several different versions back then...that was actually the last language I used. I haven't programmed any probably since the mid 90's. So, if all these languages and compilers are free now, are they just available on the web free...like Linux distro's? Got any particular sites to download the C's like C# and C++?
 
If you want to download an IDE or compiler there are free versions like gcc, (Gnu Compiler Collection) or Microsoft has free "express" versions. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vstudio/cc136611.aspx

In the case of Microsoft you have a few languages that the IDE supports, so you have one place you can program in multiple languages. If you're on Windows then Visual Studio is fairly popular.

Basically, you don't need to download the language, you need to download a compiler/interpreter for your platform (x86 for PC).

If you just want to play around, you can use a website like http://codepad.org/ which will let you type in code and compile/run it right there.
 
Blazestorm said:
If you want to download an IDE or compiler there are free versions like gcc, (Gnu Compiler Collection) or Microsoft has free "express" versions. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vstudio/cc136611.aspx

In the case of Microsoft you have a few languages that the IDE supports, so you have one place you can program in multiple languages. If you're on Windows then Visual Studio is fairly popular.

Basically, you don't need to download the language, you need to download a compiler/interpreter for your platform (x86 for PC).

If you just want to play around, you can use a website like http://codepad.org/ which will let you type in code and compile/run it right there.
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This doesn't quite answer his question. No, not everything is free, completely.

Visual Studio has "Express" versions which may not have some super fancy features for software development teams. Also, the license agreement states you should only use it for non-commercial programs or commercial apps only for the Windows Store (I think... you need to double check).

With Visual Studio, that's probably fine if you are just trying to learn programming. You can download a version of arguably the best IDE that exists and use it while you teach yourself programming. If you ever get into commercial development $500 for an official license is not a huge amount. If you work for a company they are going to buy the license for you or have a site license, having experience with their dev tools can be valuable. Microsoft is happy to give you a free version to learn with, so that more people will end up using their tools professionally later in which the company will buy it. There are also IDE's for .NET that are completely free and open source such as SharpDevelop which has a very similar feel to Visual Studio. (Of course visual studio does more than .NET as well)

Java isn't all free IDEs either. Typically, there are free IDE's and paid for IDEs (Eclipse, IntelliJ, Netbeans, etc.). Whether or not the IDEs that cost money or not are worth it is up to you and your goals.

I'd say for most languages there are a mix of free and paid IDEs. It's just up to you to decide whether or not the non-free versions are worth the cost.
 
A paid license is not required to distribute applications built with the Express versions.
 
As interesting as it is arguing about which IDE/ language to use. This discussion has been going on for nearly a month now and have you even written one line of code or I tried to build a GUI?

There's no better place to start, than actually starting!
 
Thanks for the information everyone...you all have been a big help. I have settled on Python for right now as a starting point, then will move on from there.

Again Thanks for all the input.

Wiseguy2001,

To answer your question...yes. I wrote some in Python the other day. My schedules are very hectic to say the least. So, even though I started this thread on July 22, 2014 I have not had to time start until just recently. For that reason, I wasn't in a big hurry for an immediate answer on day one :)
 
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aL Mac said:
This doesn't quite answer his question. No, not everything is free, completely.
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The languages themselves don't cost any money, nor do the compilers. I'm pretty sure you don't have to worry about selling apps made with the express version either.

If you want a fancy, tested development suite, you gotta pay money. The compiler, text editor, debugger, static code analyzer, profiler, etc. But the only thing you need to get started with programming is a compiler and a text editor, both of which are freely available.

I actually think it's a bad idea to jump into an IDE too early, my first year of school we were discouraged from relying on Visual Studio too much, and were forced in the labs to write code in Notepad++ and compile with the command line/makefiles. Reason being, you could be working on a platform that Visual Studio doesn't support, like embedded systems. Or you could be doing cross-platform development and now your VS is only useful on Windows. There was also the belief that you should know what Visual Studio is actually doing underneath before you start using it. If something goes wrong and you don't understand why, how are you going to fix it?

A lot of people using Visual Studio don't understand that by default it compiles and links simultaneously. Some people don't even know the difference between compiling and linking because they just click "Build Solution" in Visual Studio and watch text fly by. But if you're just doing this as a hobby, do you really care about the inner workings? Or do you just want to get stuff working? I'm rambling a bit now, but if you did want to develop for zero cost (aside from computer/internet/your time), you completely could. I guess that was my point, it sounded more like he wanted to just "check out" the languages and write a few simple programs.
 
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