What if the crypto craze never ends?

OFaceSIG

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Bitcoin will eventually no longer be minable, that will help. But has others have said, dedicated hardware is coming out to mine. That will help as well. Eventually though if the demand stays high, fabs will expand to handle the capacity. Problem is, that takes years. They may not expand to satisfy GPU customers, but the automotive, appliance industry, cell phone industry all will justify expansion as long as demand stays high.
 

Sir Beregond

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But thn who will want to use it for legitimate purposes? If it cnt be tied into legitimate uses nd interwebbed together with real world, no one will need crypto.

Right?

It's like city of ..whatever, Paris, made there own currency nd its citizens use it, but it cn only be used inside city transactions. Who would want that kind of currency?
TacoCoin when?

I haven't seen anyone mining Bitcoin with a GPU since asics became mainstream in 2013...

Ethereum is what everyone is on now for GPUs, but I believe profitability is dropping now.
 

os2wiz

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It can be, if you never associate your pii with any of your wallets. The transactions are traceable, but that means nothing if you're unable to find the person who made them.

That said, making that happen takes some work and diligence.
That is why crpto will be stamped out soon by many governments. Too many criminals and billionaires hiding income and ill gotten assets. I will jump for joy when crypto crashes again soon.
 

philb2

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So, as the OP, let me restate my question: Let's set aside personal views on the character of crypto miners or the "goodness" of crypto currency. Are there technical or market factors that will prolong or end the crypto mining frenzy? In what time frame? 3-6 months? 1 year? More than 1 year?
 

MrGuvernment

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even when ETH move to 2.0 "mining" will just be turned over to "validating" and stake rewards so there is still incentive for people to keep those GPU's handy.

Also, lets not compare government controlled digital currencies to Crypto as we know it, not the same thing.

As for privacy, most tokens are anonymous, until you want to make transactions with them or convert them to fiat. So unless you can buy all you need via Crypto via some site with out entering in any personal KYC info..sure, it is anonymous..
 

Jandor

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Crypto isn't the problem. The problem is demand vs production and this is not going to change till 2023, maybe even later.
 

kirbyrj

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I'm going to keep mining with my 2080Ti as long as the profit is at least $3/day.
When I deduct electricity and that I game 0-4h/day, it leaves me with about $2 proft per day. That's $750/year, worst case scenario. Free $1500 gpu every 2 years ;)

Exactly. It's amazing how people hate crypto so much because GPUs are hard to find that they fail to understand basic math.
 

yourgrandma

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I'm going to keep mining with my 2080Ti as long as the profit is at least $3/day.
When I deduct electricity and that I game 0-4h/day, it leaves me with about $2 proft per day. That's $750/year, worst case scenario. Free $1500 gpu every 2 years ;)
Production issues are greatly overstated, as long as they're selling a profitable currency printing press there is never going to be a point where you are 'meeting the demand'.
 

HAL_404

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What would replace GPUs for crypto mining?
well, I'm gonna venture a guess here that GPU die makers will be incorporating something unreachable inside the die to prevent a gaming/business GPU card from being used for mining so that hacking it would be impossible ... at least I would think that's the game plan
 

Saabjock

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I suspect even if Crypto mining slows down, GPU manufacturers and their AIBs will still find ways to inflate the pricing.
The now know how much some folks are willing to spend on these things.
End users will probably get what they want close to SRP as the cards approach EOL or are about to be replaced by something newer.
 

hajalie24

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I suspect even if Crypto mining slows down, GPU manufacturers and their AIBs will still find ways to inflate the pricing.
The now know how much some folks are willing to spend on these things.
End users will probably get what they want close to SRP as the cards approach EOL or are about to be replaced by something newer.

Seriously, back in November I desperately wanted a 3080. Remember all the hype? A card less than half the MSRP of the reigning champ and outperformed it. Sold my 1080 ti in advance for preparation. Then they had no cards for a while. When microcenter had a drop off, all they had were 3090s. I ended up paying $1800 + tax for a freaking GPU and this was without considering mining.

I started mining in the last 2 months though and have made a good chunk of that cost back already.
 

flegg

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still predicting a crash to happen sometime at or before the end of summer.

If a crash does not happen i would have to assume GPU production would ramp up. Why would amd nvidia not take the $$? This would take until 2022 most likely though
 

Nobu

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still predicting a crash to happen sometime at or before the end of summer.

If a crash does not happen i would have to assume GPU production would ramp up. Why would amd nvidia not take the $$? This would take until 2022 most likely though
Materials cost a lot right now, they may have to negotiate a much higher contract cost if they try to produce more, and then they might not receive all of their order in a timely manner, depending on market conditions.
 

flegg

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Materials cost a lot right now, they may have to negotiate a much higher contract cost if they try to produce more, and then they might not receive all of their order in a timely manner, depending on market conditions.
Right but one would think if crypto persists they would eventually attempt to reach demand. I shouldve said until 2023 though
 

TaintedSquirrel

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Renewed crypto crashes the last few days, how are mining profits looking? ETH is going sub-$2k today, first time in a month.
 

BassTek

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Definitely looks like we are at the beginning of the end for the latest craze. I imagine most people won't unload until the 'merge' happens in Q4 or Q1 2022, at least that's what I will do anyway. Might hold on to the better cards a bit longer though and see if another alt coin pops up or Ergo remains strong.
 

philb2

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Definitely looks like we are at the beginning of the end for the latest craze. I imagine most people won't unload until the 'merge' happens in Q4 or Q1 2022, at least that's what I will do anyway.
We can only hope so that we are at the beginning or into the process of the end of this latest craze. Why will most people wait until Q1/2021 or Q1/2022?
 

BassTek

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We can only hope so that we are at the beginning or into the process of the end of this latest craze. Why will most people wait until Q1/2021 or Q1/2022?

Ethereum has a time limit on how long it is mineable. Eventually it will shift to proof of stake with no more mining during the merge update which is scheduled for end of this year or early next year. Those that don't cash out profits daily and believe in the coin long term will likely mine every last second they can until the merge happens then hold their coins for a rebound.

You might get people selling stuff before then but I don't think we will see a huge fire sale until after Ethereum goes proof of stake.
 

philb2

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Ethereum has a time limit on how long it is mineable. Eventually it will shift to proof of stake with no more mining during the merge update which is scheduled for end of this year or early next year. Those that don't cash out profits daily and believe in the coin long term will likely mine every last second they can until the merge happens then hold their coins for a rebound.

You might get people selling stuff before then but I don't think we will see a huge fire sale until after Ethereum goes proof of stake.
And is there a time limit or some physical limit to Bitcoin mining? It would be nice to know that at some point (soon?) crypto mining will no longer be a Thing.
 

Andrew_Carr

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Renewed crypto crashes the last few days, how are mining profits looking? ETH is going sub-$2k today, first time in a month.
Despite the price decreases profits are up. Sichuan province just ordered a shutdown on crypto mining operations and that seems to have tanked hashrates of various coins. The ETH mining ASICs were hurting profitability of GPU miners so it seemed like some small miners were getting out of the game over the last couple of months and selling their inventory as profitability dropped, but now that trend might have reversed. I'm guessing most of the Chinese miners will relocate abroad if they're able to, but in the meantime things are looking ok.

https://etherscan.io/chart/hashrate
 

funkydmunky

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And is there a time limit or some physical limit to Bitcoin mining? It would be nice to know that at some point (soon?) crypto mining will no longer be a Thing.
You are asking about Bitcoin mining then comment about crypto mining as if they are the same thing. Why would the end of Bitcoin mining make you happy?
And as a whole crypto mining could go on indefinitely.
 

noko

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And is there a time limit or some physical limit to Bitcoin mining? It would be nice to know that at some point (soon?) crypto mining will no longer be a Thing.
Now what is the big deal with Crypto mining? Why was it developed in the first place? What value does it provide and if that value is/well still valuable in the future then Crypto mining or whatever new name it is called will live on.

In a nutshell:
Method and structure to provide a system that is trustworthy, independent and no need for third parties for transactions and verifications. No need for government intervention for it to work, no need for financial institutions for it to work, no need for a business/corporation for it to work, assessible anywhere where there is an internet. Perfect in accounting, can be audited. Now of course not all Crypto's are alike, some do indeed depend upon governments (China e_Yuan, banning Crypto looks like they do not want competition, typical tyrannical systems, this is actually a good test for Crypto in general) , businesses formed around it like Electroneum, Ripple etc.

If that ability is found valuable, which I say it is, then Crypto mining and off shoots such as Staking will be around for a very long period of time.
 

philb2

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You are asking about Bitcoin mining then comment about crypto mining as if they are the same thing. Why would the end of Bitcoin mining make you happy?
And as a whole crypto mining could go on indefinitely.
(1) The miners are making it miserable for ordinary guys like us to get GPUs and now disk drives at reasonable prices. (2) Mining uses a lot of electricity. (3) most of the use cases in the real world for crypto money come down to illegal or morally reprehensible activities.
 

BassTek

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And is there a time limit or some physical limit to Bitcoin mining? It would be nice to know that at some point (soon?) crypto mining will no longer be a Thing.
Bitcoin mining has no end date, but it has no affect on consumer hardware. It's all done with specialized ASICs in large warehouse operations.

When you read articles talking about mining Bitcoin with GPUs it's really referring to people mining other coins and getting paid in Bitcoin. It's not actual Bitcoin mining. When Ethereum goes proof of stake either another GPU mineable coin will replace it likely at lower profits or GPU mining will lose a ton of interest and fade into the background for a while until something else pops up.
 

noko

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(1) The miners are making it miserable for ordinary guys like us to get GPUs and now disk drives at reasonable prices. (2) Mining uses a lot of electricity. (3) most of the use cases in the real world for crypto money come down to illegal or morally reprehensible activities.
1. Gamers are making it miserable for ordinary miners in getting a decent price GPU. 2. Gaming uses more electricity per GPU then mining and does not produce anything. 3. Loot boxes rob kids of their collage funds and teaches them very bad habits not to mention the utter violence display and participated in by gamers.

You have no more rights then anyone else in purchasing a GPU. GPUs are not restricted to what you feel like they should do. They are now more general processing in a bunch of use cases, from video editing (do you not like people who edit videos?), 3d work, cad work, AI work, businesses of all sorts.

Now how about folks that Game and Mine, they are really F . . . . then add in 3d work and just general waste time on the internet?

In other words I recommend you figure out how better to get a GPU you want if you really want one. I guess miners are just smarter and faster and richer (hmmm) then most gamers on getting a GPU from the same place as everyone else.
 

Ramp

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(1) The miners are making it miserable for ordinary guys like us to get GPUs and now disk drives at reasonable prices. (2) Mining uses a lot of electricity. (3) most of the use cases in the real world for crypto money come down to illegal or morally reprehensible activities.
#3 is absolutely false. Could you please provide us the evidence/sources for what you are claiming is true especially when making such an extreme claim? This is the type of stuff that certain "news" networks seem to be propagating repeatedly as if it were a fact without providing real legitimate/credible sources to back their nonsense (for lack of a better word IMO). It irks me that people seem to just absorb what they hear/read and accept it as if it were a fact and true without properly fact-checking/researching it themselves because they often proceed to spread these types of claims to others. Do you seriously believe most use cases for crypto, in reality, are "illegal" or "morally reprehensible?" Not trying to be rude, especially since I'm new here, so please don't misunderstand. I'm really just flabbergasted.
 
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Riptide_NVN

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You might get people selling stuff before then but I don't think we will see a huge fire sale until after Ethereum goes proof of stake.
I agree. The July update is also not likely to push that many people away as gas prices are currently low and will remain that way. Thus the reduction in yield will be only around 10-15% and not anywhere near the predictions of much higher impact we were hearing.

My expectation is that once we get close to proof of stake with ETH there will be a wave or waves of hardware sell-offs in advance of that. Most likely 2-3 months out we will see the first batch hit. There will probably be others including immediately following the network conversion.

Thirsty gamers and miners looking to score cheap hardware should be able to secure gpus at low pricing. And unless that hardware was truly abused (run hot consistently) then it should be just fine for whatever use case you have.

The ETH hash rate has to go somewhere and I think a lot of it will exit. The (substantial) bit that is left will be hunting around for some time trying to find projects to mine. It will probably be a roller coaster for a while until things settle down.

When you read articles talking about mining Bitcoin with GPUs
When you read that you know the author is ignorant.
1. Gamers are making it miserable for ordinary miners in getting a decent price GPU. 2. Gaming uses more electricity per GPU then mining and does not produce anything. 3. Loot boxes rob kids of their collage funds and teaches them very bad habits not to mention the utter violence display and participated in by gamers.

You have no more rights then anyone else in purchasing a GPU. GPUs are not restricted to what you feel like they should do. They are now more general processing in a bunch of use cases, from video editing (do you not like people who edit videos?), 3d work, cad work, AI work, businesses of all sorts.
I agree with all of this.

I do understand that it's frustrating to want to purchase a hot commodity and being unable to do so because the price has rocketed out of reach. Leads to a lot of judgemental salty attitudes. Happens every time around these parts when we see a run on supply due (at least in part) to mining. History repeats itself.
 

Kainzo

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Or you can compare the crypto craze to how the stock market always cleans out the "little guys," the "retail investors," who jump into the stock market precisely because it has become frothy. So they end up buying into a late phase in a bull market. Then when the market turns, they panic, locking in their losses. In 2008, I knew some people who converted all their stock to cash. The smart people simply stayed in the market, which has done exceedingly well since the 2008 lows. Right now we are in a bull market for crypto, because enough people believe either others' bs stories.

If someone ever actually minted crypto money, the metal would be kryptonite.
we arent in a bull market. We left the bull market over 2 months ago
 

jlbenedict

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Interesting that for 3 straight days in a row, i've browsed Newegg in the GPU section and there have been a few GPU's available. Seems to be more positive, than previously.. assuming that is somewhat of a good sign. (pricing still horrible.. but that will take more time)
 

DoubleTap

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1. Gamers are making it miserable for ordinary miners in getting a decent price GPU. 2. Gaming uses more electricity per GPU then mining and does not produce anything. 3. Loot boxes rob kids of their collage funds and teaches them very bad habits not to mention the utter violence display and participated in by gamers.

You have no more rights then anyone else in purchasing a GPU. GPUs are not restricted to what you feel like they should do. They are now more general processing in a bunch of use cases, from video editing (do you not like people who edit videos?), 3d work, cad work, AI work, businesses of all sorts.

Now how about folks that Game and Mine, they are really F . . . . then add in 3d work and just general waste time on the internet?

In other words I recommend you figure out how better to get a GPU you want if you really want one. I guess miners are just smarter and faster and richer (hmmm) then most gamers on getting a GPU from the same place as everyone else.

1. Good.
2. So?
3. All humans should have the capacity for violence, held in check by their good character.
 
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jerry8169

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2. Gaming uses more electricity per GPU then mining and does not produce anything.
The expected end product of using a GPU for gaming, is enjoyment. Also with the current state of panic, and the panic of the last year, playing games was a way to continue to interact with friends and family for some. Keeping these connections alive can be important for people.
 

jlbenedict

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"Gaming uses more electricity per GPU then mining and does not produce anything."

It seems a lot of reports are biased. Some say gaming uses more electricity... and others say mining uses more electricity/resources..
So.. which is it? :LOL: Sounds like a bunch of BS to me
 

kirbyrj

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The expected end product of using a GPU for gaming, is enjoyment. Also with the current state of panic, and the panic of the last year, playing games was a way to continue to interact with friends and family for some. Keeping these connections alive can be important for people.

You make the assumption that tweaking a GPU for Max hashrate isn't enjoyable. Or talking to others about mining isn't the same interaction as with gaming buddies.
 

kirbyrj

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"Gaming uses more electricity per GPU then mining and does not produce anything."

It seems a lot of reports are biased. Some say gaming uses more electricity... and others say mining uses more electricity/resources..
So.. which is it? :LOL: Sounds like a bunch of BS to me

It depends on the settings. Although, I would guess that mining uses more resources due to its 24/7 nature rather than gaming, however, gaming uses more resources at the time when one is actively engaged.
 

TaintedSquirrel

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Prices are tanking hard. 3080's were ~$2200 a week or two ago, now ~$1800. Ebay.
There will be another massive blow shortly after eth's london fork, by end of July.
 
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philb2

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#3 is absolutely false. Could you please provide us the evidence/sources for what you are claiming is true especially when making such an extreme claim? This is the type of stuff that certain "news" networks seem to be propagating repeatedly as if it were a fact without providing real legitimate/credible sources to back their nonsense (for lack of a better word IMO). It irks me that people seem to just absorb what they hear/read and accept it as if it were a fact and true without properly fact-checking/researching it themselves because they often proceed to spread these types of claims to others. Do you seriously believe most use cases for crypto, in reality, are "illegal" or "morally reprehensible?" Not trying to be rude, especially since I'm new here, so please don't misunderstand. I'm really just flabbergasted.
How many people use BTC to pay for their groceries, or a car, or even a house?

On the other hand, ransomware attackers all want to be paid in BTC. Drug deals, contract murders, arm deals, use BTC, on dark web websites.
 
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