What happened to Zen 3+?

Jinto

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Doubt there will ever be a shortage. Makes more sense to mine with Epyc rather than Ryzen for Raptoreum. The parts to build a computer add up pretty quickly. Also Raptoreum care only about L3 cache. Doesn't make sense to get Zen 3 when Zen 2 gets the same hashrate.
 

Shadowarez

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the 198mb of L# is what has me worried i seen the spike in HDDS when chai was a thing seagate was even a sponsor or partner of that coin so that had me worried i couldnt build the nas i wanted at the time. but now that i has died down since people with datacenters at home made that coin obsolete this will be the next. kirbyrj i know epic makes more sence lol you can get the 32core 755p on ebay for $400 atm but i figured like all crytp douches they will take whatever they can since its in there nature.
 

Andrew_Carr

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the 198mb of L# is what has me worried i seen the spike in HDDS when chai was a thing seagate was even a sponsor or partner of that coin so that had me worried i couldnt build the nas i wanted at the time. but now that i has died down since people with datacenters at home made that coin obsolete this will be the next. kirbyrj i know epic makes more sence lol you can get the 32core 755p on ebay for $400 atm but i figured like all crytp douches they will take whatever they can since its in there nature.

I'm not sure if the 7551p makes sense for ravencoin builds. The motherboards are about $300-500 more than a cheap AM4 board and you need ECC memory that's hard to find cheaply in high speeds. It's pretty close to a 3900x build when it comes to monero mining though.
 

Shadowarez

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ahhh the boards and memory is where it adds up i wish that itx epic board was more available id of went with that for my Nas as its more suited to the workload it'll be doing and it'll be good for least a decade.
 

funkydmunky

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the 198mb of L# is what has me worried i seen the spike in HDDS when chai was a thing seagate was even a sponsor or partner of that coin so that had me worried i couldnt build the nas i wanted at the time. but now that i has died down since people with datacenters at home made that coin obsolete this will be the next. kirbyrj i know epic makes more sence lol you can get the 32core 755p on ebay for $400 atm but i figured like all crytp douches they will take whatever they can since its in there nature.
Is Chia dead now?
 

funkydmunky

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It's pretty much been on a slide since it's ATH at ~$900. Down to sub $150.
I'm about to give it a minor go. I have lots of HDD that I acquired doing Burst (the failed HDD predecessor) I'll let the forum know if it pays at all.
I can't believe in this GREEN at all cost political movement that an energy efficient block-cain hasn't gained the mind-set needed to excel.
 

Shadowarez

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once hobbyist data center owners got chia up running on the there exabyte storage systems its pretty much two tapped in head. there was even chai focused nvme ssds. to build plots.
 
D

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I'm concerned by cooling the 3D V-Cache versions. I have a CLC (H150i XT - 360mm) and with my 5900X, coolant reaches ~35°C under heavy all-core loads, yet with fans on 2000 rpm the system still goes above 75°C. Mounting is correct. Idle coolant temperature is ~28°C. Ambient is ~22°C.
 

pendragon1

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I'm concerned by cooling the 3D V-Cache versions. I have a CLC (H150i XT - 360mm) and with my 5900X, coolant reaches ~35°C under heavy all-core loads, yet with fans on 2000 rpm the system still goes above 75°C. Mounting is correct. Idle coolant temperature is ~28°C. Ambient is ~22°C.
thats normal and within spec. we dont know anything about the 3d versions yet, they may be exactly the same.
 

TheSlySyl

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AFAIK the only actual difference is gonna be the cache, and how much heat does the cache generate compared to the rest of the CPU?

That wasn't hypothetical, I'd actually like to know the answer.
 

legcramp

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Doesn't make any sense to buy new hardware to mine this unless you already had it sitting there doing nothing with the network difficulty now. Just buy the coin and it'll double or triple in like 2 weeks.
 
D

Deleted member 345482

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AFAIK the only actual difference is gonna be the cache, and how much heat does the cache generate compared to the rest of the CPU?

That wasn't hypothetical, I'd actually like to know the answer.
My concern regarding heat comes from AMD's preview of the technology showing the cache stacked on top of what I believe is each CCD. That's what makes me concerned about cooling of CCDs. Found the slide I was looking for which hopefully demonstrates my point, or allows people to easily correct me if I'm wrong.

AMD-3D-V-Cache-Zen-3-Ryzen-CPU-Stack-Chiplet-Design-2060x1159.jpg

Edit: Wikichip has created a useful image. It's the silicon for 'structural support' that makes me curious about cooling.

amd-vcache-cartoon.png
 

bobzdar

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I'm concerned by cooling the 3D V-Cache versions. I have a CLC (H150i XT - 360mm) and with my 5900X, coolant reaches ~35°C under heavy all-core loads, yet with fans on 2000 rpm the system still goes above 75°C. Mounting is correct. Idle coolant temperature is ~28°C. Ambient is ~22°C.
Is that stock or with PBO? I have a 240mm AIO (h100i platinum) on 5950X with PBO+CO at board limits (~200Wppt) and get similar performance - 35C coolant temp and upper 70's max temp under all core stress test. I'd think unless you have really high PBO limits you'd be running significantly cooler.
 

chameleoneel

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Is that stock or with PBO? I have a 240mm AIO (h100i platinum) on 5950X with PBO+CO at board limits (~200Wppt) and get similar performance - 35C coolant temp and upper 70's max temp under all core stress test. I'd think unless you have really high PBO limits you'd be running significantly cooler.
5950x is better binned silicon. Its not uncommon for 5900x to run a little warmer.
 

evhvis

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5950x is better binned silicon. Its not uncommon for 5900x to run a little warmer.
5900x has fewer cores so it runs more watts and higher clocks per core, when all CPU-threads are in use, so it will become warmer. Run an 8 threaded test on a 5950x with PBO and it will a lot hotter than when running 32 threads (probably close to throtling on an AIO).
 
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120mm more of rad for same temps is more than a little warmer.....
Depends highly on the stress test you're using. I've got a triple 360 rad custom loop with my 5950x, and if I use the mobo PBO limits with prime95 small FFTs, the thing will instantly jump to 85-90C. An easier load like cinebench barely gets the thing into the 70s.
 

bobzdar

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5900x has fewer cores so it runs more watts and higher clocks per core, when all CPU-threads are in use, so it will become warmer. Run an 8 threaded test on a 5950x with PBO and it will a lot hotter than when running 32 threads (probably close to throtling on an AIO).
Depends highly on the stress test you're using. I've got a triple 360 rad custom loop with my 5950x, and if I use the mobo PBO limits with prime95 small FFTs, the thing will instantly jump to 85-90C. An easier load like cinebench barely gets the thing into the 70s.

In both cases, while the 5900X may run hotter, the coolant temp shouldn't - my 240 aio runs 35C coolant temps with ~200W coming from the chip. I'd expect a 360mm to run cooler unless the PBO limits are significantly higher and the chip can actually use it...

As to which stress test, I agree - I usually use the cpu-z stress test as it generally gets hotter than any real world load I run without being an unrealistic stress like prime95. To each their own, though. With PBO I generally can't get my 5950X to run over 80C no matter what I do as the clocks start to reduce slightly and my AIO seems to be able to (just) handle 200W. That's why I'm curious what PBO limits he's running to get 35C coolant temps on a 360mm AIO, I'd imagine 240-250W, which is about all a 5900 or 5950 can run without doing voltage tweaks or playing with the scalar (which is where you risk burning up your chip).
 
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Digital Viper-X-

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my 5950x hit over 80c on a custom loop too, sat around 82c actually, pulled around 240-250w, water temps peaked around 33c with a single 360x56mm radiator, fans on quiet, and about 31 with 2 x 360 of the same rads on the same fan settings.
 

evhvis

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In both cases, while the 5900X may run hotter, the coolant temp shouldn't - my 240 aio runs 35C coolant temps with ~200W coming from the chip. I'd expect a 360mm to run cooler unless the PBO limits are significantly higher and the chip can actually use it...

As to which stress test, I agree - I usually use the cpu-z stress test as it generally gets hotter than any real world load I run without being an unrealistic stress like prime95. To each their own, though. With PBO I generally can't get my 5950X to run over 80C no matter what I do as the clocks start to reduce slightly and my AIO seems to be able to (just) handle 200W. That's why I'm curious what PBO limits he's running to get 35C coolant temps on a 360mm AIO, I'd imaging 240-250W, which is about all a 5900 or 5950 can run without doing voltage tweaks or playing with the scalar (which is where you risk burning up your chip).
Did you try to run 8 threads and check temps? 5-8 threads is the worst load you can put on a 5950x while for a 5900x it is 5-6 threads as all the watts are dumped into 1 CCD. At least on my 5900x the difference is around 10-12 degrees between running all core load vs fully loading 6 threads. If you run 75c in all core load then I would expect you to be somewhere between 85c and massive throttling in a 8 core load unless the CPU clocks down due to the load type.

The coolant temp depends on a lot of things, but the primary three things are ambient, fan profile and if you are at stable state. If you run a nearly silent fan profile and have an ambient of 25 degrees then your water temp can easily be 7-8 degrees higher than someone running max fans with 20 degrees ambient. Also it makes a big difference on AIO if you are at stable state or just started. Typically takes 5-8 minutes on full load to reach stable state on an AIO.

CPU-z doesn't stress heat much. Was around 58 degrees on my 5900x on stock and 71 on PBO which would go up maybe 1-2 degrees at steady state on my super slow fan profile or down 1-2 degrees if I ran a fast fan profile. Basically similar heat to cinebench.
 
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noko

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My concern regarding heat comes from AMD's preview of the technology showing the cache stacked on top of what I believe is each CCD. That's what makes me concerned about cooling of CCDs. Found the slide I was looking for which hopefully demonstrates my point, or allows people to easily correct me if I'm wrong.

View attachment 418599

Edit: Wikichip has created a useful image. It's the silicon for 'structural support' that makes me curious about cooling.

View attachment 418601
From the above images, the 3d V-Cache sits on top of the L3 cache and not the cores. I would not expect any difference in core temperatures since same exposure to the cooler heatsink. If the power rating or usage is around the same, I expect the cores to remain about the same as well. With better yields/process maybe even a cooler core. Now the L3 cache on the die may see a higher temperature but that would be about it I expect.
 

cdoublejj

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naw its been in works for awhile from all the rumors it'll prob be called the 6000 series but will have that lovely 3d v-cache going forward it'll be a nice feature to have. its coming dont worry plus the fix's for amd on win 11 since intel sponsored that OS.

amd will get the fixes that intel put there on purpose for amd to trip over lol. We will get back to fair competition again soon.

WHAT!? call me a grave digger but, this post was on october which would have been not too long after the ryzen 5000 series? Jeezez! it feels like hardware is on a 9 month refresh cycle!!!
 

Shadowarez

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WHAT!? call me a grave digger but, this post was on october which would have been not too long after the ryzen 5000 series? Jeezez! it feels like hardware is on a 9 month refresh cycle!!!
That to me usually indicates this was already planned and ready and they had this on the same timeline as Ryzen 5000 but purposely held it back so they could launch a refresh with more then a few tweaks.

Set aside money to buy hopefully 1 of these then I'll toss this current 5950x into my Ghost Test Rig.
 

cdoublejj

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if that's true then AMD may not get shoved to the bottom of the market just yet as intel begins to rise back up
 

Shadowarez

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If this V-Cache becomes standard for the highe end lineup like Intel Extreme Edition but with actual value not just hogwash.

Time will tell I'll still wait for next gen when AMD has had least 1 gen with DDR 5 then I'll jump in build new and turn the 5950x with V-Cache my next server rig upgrade.
 

noko

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If this V-Cache becomes standard for the highe end lineup like Intel Extreme Edition but with actual value not just hogwash.

Time will tell I'll still wait for next gen when AMD has had least 1 gen with DDR 5 then I'll jump in build new and turn the 5950x with V-Cache my next server rig upgrade.
2nd Gen Intel using DDR5 or 2nd Gen AMD Using DDR5 for my next major upgrade. May dabble with AMD 6000 series and/or APU depending upon performance. If TR gets VCache probably most likely upgrade.
 

Shadowarez

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ooooo i want a TR with Vcache they have come down to 12 core variants i think id go 16+ though as a few of my programs would see a significant boost with ton of Cache to use.
 
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ooooo i want a TR with Vcache they have come down to 12 core variants i think id go 16+ though as a few of my programs would see a significant boost with ton of Cache to use.

Looks like Vcache may indeed be coming with as little as 12 cores, though AMD may skip it in TR and straight to TR pro.
https://www.techpowerup.com/290060/amd-ryzen-threadripper-pro-5000-series-bound-for-march-2022

I suppose building a rig using this platform would be possible, just ungodly expensive.

Vcache + Ryzen 3 + 8 channels of low latency of ddr4 = the fastest gaming rig hands down.

Also, even the 12 core cpu gets a 280 watt tdp. How high are they clocking these things?!!
 

Shadowarez

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I have a nice cooling setup a 420 AIO and ton of GT fans pushing a ton of air through system eve the 3090 FE Hot spot is 50c lol
 

funkydmunky

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I'm about to give it a minor go. I have lots of HDD that I acquired doing Burst (the failed HDD predecessor) I'll let the forum know if it pays at all.
I can't believe in this GREEN at all cost political movement that an energy efficient block-cain hasn't gained the mind-set needed to excel.
For posterity as promised. I tried DL'ing Chia chain twice on 2 different PC's and despite port forwarding and any other advice it wouldn't complete, and ya I gave it plenty of time. Starts very quick then just dies! Seems to be a complete waste of time and resources and as far as payouts go the community for the most part is very unhappy. Many never making a cent. I have the feeling the have limited the number of miners (farmers) in an attempt to somehow retain value.
Sorry for the minor derail.
 

Shadowarez

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too many people at home with datacenter lvls of storage, exobytes upon exobytes, plus all the sys admins using work data centers to famr this out. next on choppin block is this Raptorum that will make these vache cpus vapor ware if what im reading id true. get yours while you can reserve 1.
 

freeagentt

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I will be grabbing the 12 core variant the moment they are available :)

My 9 year old son will get an upgrade from a 3770K to a 5900X.. while my youngest boy will get my 5600X :D
 

kirbyrj

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too many people at home with datacenter lvls of storage, exobytes upon exobytes, plus all the sys admins using work data centers to famr this out. next on choppin block is this Raptorum that will make these vache cpus vapor ware if what im reading id true. get yours while you can reserve 1.

Stop with your crypto fearmongering. The best current CPUs for Raptoreum mining are still widely available, and there's no reason to think that Raptoreum on its own is going to force shortages.

Edit: I just ran some numbers. After electricity, a 5950x gets about $1.11 a day worth of RTM. At $799 list price, so figuring in taxes, etc., you're looking at not hitting break even for 763 days. NO full time miner is going to touch that with that ROI. So you can officially unbunch your panties.
 
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Oh my 280 watts don't think my cooling is good for that much.

This leak from Igor's Lab via TPU shines some more light.
Screenshot_20211223-174358-485.png


So at 4.1 ghz the 12 core uses a more reasonable 170w and uses up to 280w at full boil and likely only briefly. Oddly, all core configurations use up to 280w at up to 4.55 ghz. My assumption is that all core configurations can only max out 12 cores or less at that frequency as there is no way that the 64 core part will use just 25w more going from an all core of 2.7 ghz to 4.55.
 

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