what happened to the 3850X

sparks

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From what I read it was a 3800 at 5.1ghz and sounded like the ultimate amd.
Now they don't even mention it.
 

Dan_D

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From what I read it was a 3800 at 5.1ghz and sounded like the ultimate amd.
Now they don't even mention it.
There were rumors about Zen 2 having at least one part with 16 cores and hitting clock speeds of 5.0GHz or better. These were absolutely unfounded. I can't believe anyone fell for that in the first place.

The thing is, AMD is doing allot with Zen 2. They are increasing core counts and IPC substantially. The fact that they managed to increase clock speeds at all is actually something of a miracle while doing everything else. 12 cores and 4.6GHz boost clocks speeds with a 105 watt TDP is quite impressive. The thing is, its extremely difficult to increase clock speeds, keep the old TDP and improve IPC. Generally IPC improvements and clock speed increases don't happen together at all, much less to the massive degree the rumor suggested. That's why I never believed it.

That said, we do not know what, if any overclocking headroom these CPU's have. My guess is that they'll have next to no headroom and the best we can hope for is to level the boost clock across all the cores at once much like we do with Threadripper and Ryzen 2000 series CPU's now. We might even have to drop slightly below the boost clock to do that, but we'll see. I'm still trying to get sampled on these things.
 
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travm

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There were rumors about Zen 2 having at least one part with 16 cores and hitting clock speeds of 5.0GHz or better. These were absolutely unfounded. I can't believe anyone fell for that in the first place.
Unfounded yes, but that's what they needed to actually be an upgrade from zen+. The best description of zen 2 is, it's not slower. The twelve core is pretty cool too for people who can load 24 threads, but with the node shrink I was really hoping.
5ghz seems to be the silicon stone wall. I bet zen2 will oc up there with proper cooling.
 

sparks

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if thats the case then all I have to do is decide 3800 or 3900. For everyday task and gaming would the 3800 be the better choice?

well can't wait for reviews, anyone got any idea when we can expect some?
 

Dan_D

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Unfounded yes, but that's what they needed to actually be an upgrade from zen+. The best description of zen 2 is, it's not slower. The twelve core is pretty cool too for people who can load 24 threads, but with the node shrink I was really hoping.
5ghz seems to be the silicon stone wall. I bet zen2 will oc up there with proper cooling.
That's not true. It's an upgrade if the IPC improvement claims are true. A 15% upgrade and boost clocks up to 4.6GHz would put Zen 2 in a pretty good spot. Especially with 8c/16t and 12c/12t parts on the high end. Node shrinks aren't magic. As I said, when your improving processors, you can generally go for higher clocks, or higher IPC, but generally not both. AMD did manage both from what we've seen thus far. AMD managed to not only improve IPC by 15% (which is huge) but increase boost clocks fairly significantly. They did this while keeping a 105w TDP and increasing core counts. All that's damn near too good to be true as it is. Wanting 5.0GHz and all that just isn't realistic.

I wouldn't hold out hopes of achieving 5.0GHz through overclocking either. Like I said, you'll probably see 100-200MHz and load all cores if your lucky. Your TDP will go through the roof, but that's probably the best you can hope for.

if thats the case then all I have to do is decide 3800 or 3900. For everyday task and gaming would the 3800 be the better choice?

well can't wait for reviews, anyone got any idea when we can expect some?
The embargo date is 7/7/19. Its unlikely you will see anything before then. AMD tends to sample chips only a week or two out from the embargo date. Reviewers don't have their hands on them yet. I'm working with motherboard vendors to get X570 samples which aren't available yet and won't be for at least a couple weeks or more. Reviewers aren't often left with much time ahead of launches to work with the hardware.
 

sparks

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I think the 570 will be amazing.

Year after year I have seen small increases in cpu's with major increases in price.
Now I am going to update. No more next year.

the 105w TDP, I do remember the 3850x talk that said 135w. That might be why it wasn't done.
 

dvsman

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Let me guess - is OP a WCCFtech or Adored TV fan?

I love how some of these websites just post random garbage clickbait and when reality drops and doesn't match the fiction, people are surprised.
 

lightsout

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There were rumors about Zen 2 having at least one part with 16 cores and hitting clock speeds of 5.0GHz or better. These were absolutely unfounded. I can't believe anyone fell for that in the first place.

The thing is, AMD is doing allot with Zen 2. They are increasing core counts and IPC substantially. The fact that they managed to increase clock speeds at all is actually something of a miracle while doing everything else. 12 cores and 4.6GHz boost clocks speeds with a 105 watt TDP is quite impressive. The thing is, its extremely difficult to increase clock speeds, keep the old TDP and improve IPC. Generally IPC improvements and clock speed increases don't happen together at all, much less to the massive degree the rumor suggested. That's why I never believed it.

That said, we do not know what, if any overclocking headroom these CPU's have. My guess is that they'll have next to no headroom and the best we can hope for is to level the boost clock across all the cores at once much like we do with Threadripper and Ryzen 2000 series CPU's now. We might even have to drop slightly below the boost clock to do that, but we'll see. I'm still trying to get sampled on these things.
But still all the info out there seems to point to the eventual release of the 16/32 chip. AMD would be foolish to play their whole card right now as they currently have the upper hand and intel doesn't have much of an answer.

Plus the 16 core steps on TR a bit. But surely it will see thelight of day (my opinion)
 

pillagenburn

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IMO, whether or not AMD even had a part like this planned.... I don't think they even needed it to compete/out-compete Intel at this point. 12-cores on a desktop processor at the speeds they're talking about is significantly ahead of Intel at right now (plus the IPC boost).....

4 more cores than Intel's best desktop part with similar clocks + similar or better IPC plus no zombieload and God knows else Intel has failed to tell us about since you'd be an idiot to believe someone who has been at minimum negligent and at most outright lying to you for the last 10+ years? Sign me up.
 
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Dan_D

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Let me guess - is OP a WCCFtech or Adored TV fan?

I love how some of these websites just post random garbage clickbait and when reality drops and doesn't match the fiction, people are surprised.
Exactly. Its a sensational headline which generates clicks and traffic. The fact is, CPU's do not typically improve that much from generation to generation. At least, not these days. Anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't have a solid grasp of how chip development works. Back when there was a focus on the desktop with performance being the goal and TDP not making much of a difference, things were different. Back in the Pentium days we saw rapid clock speed increases but we weren't anywhere near the limits of what we could do with silicon and the modern PC as we knew it, was practically in its infancy. In the early days of a technology, more rapid improvement is to be expected. Once you reach a certain level of advancement, the improvements come at a much slower pace. These days we are at a clock speed wall and are struggling to make the transistors smaller. The focus is on efficiency and performance per watt.

With that focus and the limitations of current silicon, you can't expect an 800MHz clock speed increase with everything else that was done just isn't realistic.
 

Dan_D

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But still all the info out there seems to point to the eventual release of the 16/32 chip. AMD would be foolish to play their whole card right now as they currently have the upper hand and intel doesn't have much of an answer.

Plus the 16 core steps on TR a bit. But surely it will see thelight of day (my opinion)
Yes, this is true. However, such a part isn't going to be clocked at 5.1GHz or anything like that. I'd wager that its probably clocked at 4.6GHz (boost) or less. As you said, it steps on Threadripper and right now AMD doesn't even need the part in its mainstream offerings. Intel has nothing to combat a 4.6GHz 12c/24t Ryzen part if the IPC improvement is accurate.
 

Pieter3dnow

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There were rumors about Zen 2 having at least one part with 16 cores and hitting clock speeds of 5.0GHz or better. These were absolutely unfounded. I can't believe anyone fell for that in the first place.

The thing is, AMD is doing allot with Zen 2. They are increasing core counts and IPC substantially. The fact that they managed to increase clock speeds at all is actually something of a miracle while doing everything else. 12 cores and 4.6GHz boost clocks speeds with a 105 watt TDP is quite impressive. The thing is, its extremely difficult to increase clock speeds, keep the old TDP and improve IPC. Generally IPC improvements and clock speed increases don't happen together at all, much less to the massive degree the rumor suggested. That's why I never believed it.

That said, we do not know what, if any overclocking headroom these CPU's have. My guess is that they'll have next to no headroom and the best we can hope for is to level the boost clock across all the cores at once much like we do with Threadripper and Ryzen 2000 series CPU's now. We might even have to drop slightly below the boost clock to do that, but we'll see. I'm still trying to get sampled on these things.
There were rumours about Zen 2 turbo hitting 5 ghz not base clock speeds. It is not that far fetched since you can lookup where the turbo are on other models (4.6 or 4.7) (XFR or PB might boost this).

If you know that the best silicon ends up in servers you can draw your own conclusions on possibility of a single 5ghz turbo core.

sparks There is a youtube channel called AdoredTV he started speculation on information he got from sources, the stuff he posted on his youtube channel was used by several other media outlets and used as facts that is how you came to believe it was going to happen. When you look at these stories always check for a source link on the webpage this shows you where it came from.
 
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I'm working with motherboard vendors to get X570 samples which aren't available yet and won't be for at least a couple weeks or more. Reviewers aren't often left with much time ahead of launches to work with the hardware.
Hmmmm, why do you need a board, Dan? Working on the Hardocp review?

:rolleyes:
 
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kirbyrj

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I think you'll see a 16C/32T chip at some point that's compatible with the X570 boards. And maybe with the Zen2+ generation you'll see that 5Ghz speed.
 

TheRookie

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Let me guess - is OP a WCCFtech or Adored TV fan?

I love how some of these websites just post random garbage clickbait and when reality drops and doesn't match the fiction, people are surprised.
I am just surprised that Adored managed to dupe so many tech sites into publishing his fake "leaks".

For someone not closely following PC tech, the "leaks" might have seem convincing, but writers working for tech sites should have known better and it should have been obvious that the "leaks" were fake.
 

kirbyrj

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I am just surprised that Adored managed to dupe so many tech sites into publishing his fake "leaks".

For someone not closely following PC tech, the "leaks" might have seem convincing, but writers working for tech sites should have known better and it should have been obvious that the "leaks" were fake.
Well, now we can sleep well at night knowing that you and your banned alter-ego _mockingbird are here to protect us :rolleyes:.
 

TheRookie

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Well, now we can sleep well at night knowing that you and your banned alter-ego _mockingbird are here to protect us :rolleyes:.
You mean mockingbird from AnandTech?

No, that's not me.

My old username was "PeterScott", if you want to check.

The moderator on AnandTech banned 10+ people for rightfully calling out AdoredTV. (basically, the holocaust of free thinkers)

Me and a few other users here are refugees.
 
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Pieter3dnow

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I am just surprised that Adored managed to dupe so many tech sites into publishing his fake "leaks".

For someone not closely following PC tech, the "leaks" might have seem convincing, but writers working for tech sites should have known better and it should have been obvious that the "leaks" were fake.
It is just not you that does not know what the word speculation means ;)
You mean mockingbird from AnandTech?
No, that's not me.
My old username was "PeterScott", if you want to check.
The moderator on AnandTech banned 10+ people for rightfully calling out AdoredTV. (basically, the holocaust of free thinkers)
Me and a few other users here are refugees.
Well unless I am mistaken _mockingbird got banned for the same thing over here. So much for defending your past mistakes ...
 
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TheRookie

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It is just not you that does not know what the word speculation means ;)


Well unless I am mistaken _mockingbird got banned for the same thing over here. So much for defending your past mistakes ...
AdoredTV's contents should be banned from this forum for good.

All it is good for is to create conflicts among users.

There are many YouTube channels that value integrity over viewers count.
 
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N4CR

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It is just not you that does not know what the word speculation means ;)


Well unless I am mistaken _mockingbird got banned for the same thing over here. So much for defending your past mistakes ...
Did he? He has juicy accurate inside info on rtg. Ffs.
 

lightsout

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Yes, this is true. However, such a part isn't going to be clocked at 5.1GHz or anything like that. I'd wager that its probably clocked at 4.6GHz (boost) or less. As you said, it steps on Threadripper and right now AMD doesn't even need the part in its mainstream offerings. Intel has nothing to combat a 4.6GHz 12c/24t Ryzen part if the IPC improvement is accurate.
For sure I don't think it will have that clock speed. But I do believe we will sit it. Agree with you though Intel currently has no answer for the 12 core so AMD would be foolish to release it now.
 

sparks

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the original post was in responce to some people who were reading proposed numbers in several test listing amd with nothing more than numbers, new comparison listings, like sisoft and others.
they were trying to extrapolate the models based on the values listed in the tables.
one of the new AMD numbers listed were the values for the 3800x and another was assumed to be the 3850x (that is what they called it based on the values listed) These values are not found in the amd presentation.
So unless these companies just made up the numbers, they were given something that was either not correct or not going into production.
 

SvenBent

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TGenerally IPC improvements and clock speed increases don't happen together in these days
fixed that for you. us old timers rememreber when a new generation of cpu was both clock increase. ipc increase and a smaller achitecture.

we called it the MEGATICKTACKTOE strategy.... ok last part was BS but still
 

bobzdar

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Unfounded yes, but that's what they needed to actually be an upgrade from zen+. The best description of zen 2 is, it's not slower. The twelve core is pretty cool too for people who can load 24 threads, but with the node shrink I was really hoping.
5ghz seems to be the silicon stone wall. I bet zen2 will oc up there with proper cooling.
Unfounded? They were showing a 16c am4 part at computex, so the details may have been off but there is definitely 16c am4 part coming. Only question is when.
 
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travm

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Unfounded? They were showing a 16c am4 part at computex, so the details may have been off but there is definitely 16c am4 part coming. Only question is when.
I was referring to 5ghz, not 16c.
16c is not exciting to me. 12c is overkill for my workloads.
#clockspeedmatters

I also haven't seen any real indication of this 15% IPC increase either. The limited data I've looked at uses both the extra cores (cinebench) and higher clock speeds in their comparison.

All that said it's waiting for reviews that is painful
 

Dan_D

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fixed that for you. us old timers remember when a new generation of cpu was both clock increase. ipc increase and a smaller architecture.

we called it the MEGATICKTACKTOE strategy.... ok last part was BS but still
I was going to bring that up but didn't want to go off on a tangent about that. While there are certainly examples of massive increases in IPC and clock speeds simultaneously, I would argue this has rarely been the case from the Pentium onward.
 

Pieter3dnow

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AdoredTV's contents should be banned from this forum for good.
All it is good for is to create conflicts among users.
There are many YouTube channels that value integrity over viewers count.
Any book burnings you want to promote?
Maybe you need to institutionalize some pre approved youtube channels?
You know so all of us can share your wisdom in how to view technology and which way to view it from because we might not have enough living braincells to come to our own conclusions?

Or maybe you should refrain from creating conflicts by posting anything like this or other spiteful endeavours..
So unless these companies just made up the numbers, they were given something that was either not correct or not going into production.
It helps if you post links in such discussions I find that people can't turn it around on you and start whatever their agenda dictates ..

All that said it's waiting for reviews that is painful
No it is not ;) life will go on as usual. It won't change things that much it is just that you are feeling anticipation towards something you might want to purchase or skip, what helps is to ignore it all together even after reviews and see how well it goes for others.
I am certainly going to wait and see what is happening on the overclocking front and maybe just skip Zen 2 all together for the simple reason that it might not work that well for me on my X370 and X570 should be expensive and a total waste of money if next year we get DDR5 which makes the decision a lot easier.
 

sparks

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where did this crap come from...the 3850 was bs and now the 3950 again junk.
Read the experts above.
 

Pieter3dnow

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where did this crap come from...the 3850 was bs and now the 3950 again junk.
Read the experts above.
You can see the people who replied and who liked just keep track of those.
But the whole reason for X570 was 16 core cpu. If you followed Buildzoids channel on youtube you would know that they did some overhauling on motherboards to accommodate a beefier then 12 core cpu.
 
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