What exactly is the deal with GPUs

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euskalzabe

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A pretty interesting report coming out today about why it's pretty stupid to buy GPUs for mining at this point:

https://www.jonpeddie.com/press-releases/gpu-shipments-soar-once-more-in-q4

TLDR: it's too late in the game. Could you recoup the money spent on your 3000 series? Perhaps, by the end of the year. Maybe even make a bit of money But a this point, you won't earn much, making the whole endeavor a bit stupid when there are other, better ways to make more money. If that weren't enough, Ethereum 2.0 will likely come out this year (or next at most) and Proof of Stake will make GPUs irrelevant. But wait! - I hear you say - we can mine other coins! And to that I say, yeah, good luck making money out of -insert stupid name here- joke of a coin. Let me know how it goes.
 

jlbenedict

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A pretty interesting report coming out today about why it's pretty stupid to buy GPUs for mining at this point:

https://www.jonpeddie.com/press-releases/gpu-shipments-soar-once-more-in-q4

TLDR: it's too late in the game. Could you recoup the money spent on your 3000 series? Perhaps, by the end of the year. Maybe even make a bit of money But a this point, you won't earn much, making the whole endeavor a bit stupid when there are other, better ways to make more money. If that weren't enough, Ethereum 2.0 will likely come out this year (or next at most) and Proof of Stake will make GPUs irrelevant. But wait! - I hear you say - we can mine other coins! And to that I say, yeah, good luck making money out of -insert stupid name here- joke of a coin. Let me know how it goes.

Summary.... This will crash and burn, and we'll be flooded with second hand GPU's again in the reseller market :D
 

TaintedSquirrel

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Previous booms lasted 6-8 months (check the Ether price history graphs) so there will probably be a flood of cards sometime this summer, or sooner by the way things are currently going.
Hopefully this will jolt the GPU market back to normalcy.
 

Flogger23m

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Sounds like the mining craze (for individuals at least) is going to die down until another coin pops up? If so prices will likely drop once supply stabilizes. In general I think we've run out of people willing to pay $200-300 above MSRP. Even if people want to, not everyone can afford to drop that much extra on a GPU.
 

wicktr0n_

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Sounds like the mining craze (for individuals at least) is going to die down until another coin pops up? If so prices will likely drop once supply stabilizes. In general I think we've run out of people willing to pay $200-300 above MSRP. Even if people want to, not everyone can afford to drop that much extra on a GPU.
IDK. I see tons of folks on eBay still buying GPUs, even older ones, at crazy prices.
 

Bassman99

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^^ lol



Also on wait list at BLT since Feb 20th for 5600xt TUF. They already pushed the date back from 3-4 to 4-7. From what I've been hearing, it's likely not going to be 4-7 either. Will just keep getting pushed out over and over until the situation in general is cleared up. Could be a long time.

Sigh.
Not anytime soon, but if you cancel you cant get back on list at this point since they dont list anymore.
 

x509

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More specifically, there's literally not enough Square meters of fab space needed for all the chips that's in demand right now. Intel has sort of blown it with the 7nm-5nm process for the time being which is putting a huge crunch on available fab space.
Can you explain why.
 

wandplus

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This has me tempted to sell my GTX 1080 Strix and just use the Intel 630 iGPU.
Well, the Rocket Lake CPU will use the UHD 750 iGPU. It looks like the 11400 will have 24 EUs and the 11500 32 EUs. However, they want you to pay more obviously for the 11500. For those who have a lot of patience though Alder Lake will get 96 EUs.
 

TaintedSquirrel

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This has me tempted to sell my GTX 1080 Strix and just use the Intel 630 iGPU.
What you should be doing is actively trying to buy an upgrade while you have your 1080. If you succeed, then sell the 1080. If prices tank before you can get your upgrade, then just keep the 1080 or whatever.

But you missed a few months already.
 

StormNobleheart

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I intend to buy the 11700K. At the current prices, I have no intention of buying a new GPU right now unless I somehow get lucky on a great deal. I just play Heroes of Might and Magic 3 and World of Warcraft these days.
 

SamuelL421

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What you should be doing is actively trying to buy an upgrade while you have your 1080. If you succeed, then sell the 1080. If prices tank before you can get your upgrade, then just keep the 1080 or whatever.

But you missed a few months already.
Not endorsing this move, but yeah that does make sense... if you can get your hands on something new from retailer at close to MSRP you could sell the 1080 at scalper prices (450+ ?)
I intend to buy the 11700K. At the current prices, I have no intention of buying a new GPU right now unless I somehow get lucky on a great deal. I just play Heroes of Might and Magic 3 and World of Warcraft these days.
HoMM3 is still one of the best, gotta love great games that can be played at HD settings on half of a potato ;)

On a related note, 11700K will probably be a good choice, I bought one of those GPD WinMax computers last year. It has a i5-1035G7 and I was shocked how good was with games, pretty much anything from 5+ years ago runs well and newer titles work if you adjust expectations and set everything to "low". For comparison, that 11700K Iris xe integrated graphics are supposed to another 40% or so faster.
 

x509

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For a non-gamer like me, it's all dreariness and dashed expectations. I think I'll find a rock to crawl under for the next 6-12-18 months.
 

StormNobleheart

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HoMM3 is still one of the best, gotta love great games that can be played at HD settings on half of a potato
I was surprised at all the community support for the game after all these years. My youngest brother and I use a mod to play multi-player online. I remember when I was excited about seeing the previews in the Navy back in the late 1990's. I could not wait to play it on the Pentium II 400Mhz system with 256MB of PC100 memory and 8MB video card I had built.
 

Bill Clo

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For a non-gamer like me, it's all dreariness and dashed expectations. I think I'll find a rock to crawl under for the next 6-12-18 months.
Don't feel bad, just move on to another hobby. Check back in on gaming in 6 months or a year. I'm stuck with an GTX 1050, but I've broken out the older games and reliving my prime video gaming days (early 2000s). Model rocket season is coming soon, so I'll be busier building those, and I can soon break out the bike, etc. Just move on and be happy. :)
 

x509

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Don't feel bad, just move on to another hobby. Check back in on gaming in 6 months or a year. I'm stuck with an GTX 1050, but I've broken out the older games and reliving my prime video gaming days (early 2000s). Model rocket season is coming soon, so I'll be busier building those, and I can soon break out the bike, etc. Just move on and be happy. :)
My hobby here is Photography, and I'm a heavy user of Lightroom and Photoshop. Performance sucks on Lightroom import and editing. A faster GPU would help a lot.
 

dexvx

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Sounds like the mining craze (for individuals at least) is going to die down until another coin pops up? If so prices will likely drop once supply stabilizes. In general I think we've run out of people willing to pay $200-300 above MSRP. Even if people want to, not everyone can afford to drop that much extra on a GPU.

Unpopular opinion, but I think there will always be a major coin for GPU mining. When Bitcoin GPU died, it was Litecoin GPU, then Eth came out of nowhere. Why is this? Because fundamentally, one of the core concepts of cryptocurrency is the fact that it should be decentralized. Bitcoin/Litecoin going for ASIC means that all the power is concentrated in the hands of the few. Eth going Proof of Stake basically means its a plutocracy.
 

Dark12

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Unpopular opinion, but I think there will always be a major coin for GPU mining. When Bitcoin GPU died, it was Litecoin GPU, then Eth came out of nowhere. Why is this? Because fundamentally, one of the core concepts of cryptocurrency is the fact that it should be decentralized. Bitcoin/Litecoin going for ASIC means that all the power is concentrated in the hands of the few. Eth going Proof of Stake basically means its a plutocracy.
RVN is my guess for the next GPU exodus. It's already mined by most 4GB cards (from what I can gather).
 
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bufodr_T

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Wait til the next round of stimulus checks hit. The shit market will really hit the fan. It will truly be a scalpers paradise with all that stimmy money folks willing and ready to pay whatever for a 3080 since they didn't have to earn it.
 

Dark12

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Wait til the next round of stimulus checks hit. The shit market will really hit the fan. It will truly be a scalpers paradise with all that stimmy money folks willing and ready to pay whatever for a 3080 since they didn't have to earn it.
Many people will be buying crypto with their stimulus checks because of all the money printing. I think I will be buying some silver.
 

dexvx

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RVN is my guess for the next GPU exodus. It's already mined by most 4GB cards (from what I can gather).
Another possibility is that ETH will hard fork. It would be truly amusing if the fork gained more popularity.
 

zandor

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Personally I'm hoping for a 51% attack by request of the Chinese government and they get caught and everyone finds out. A lot of coins are mostly mined in China and a government orchestrated 51% attack would destroy trust in the system. Alternatively, multiple exchanges getting hacked at once. In other words, crash crypto and cheap used vid cards galore. There's a bunch of stuff I don't like about crypto but I'll leave that for the Soapbox.
 

noko

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Another possibility is that ETH will hard fork. It would be truly amusing if the fork gained more popularity.
Looks like around 15 April 2021, then another following. Much is planned for ETH.
 

noko

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Personally I'm hoping for a 51% attack by request of the Chinese government and they get caught and everyone finds out. A lot of coins are mostly mined in China and a government orchestrated 51% attack would destroy trust in the system. Alternatively, multiple exchanges getting hacked at once. In other words, crash crypto and cheap used vid cards galore. There's a bunch of stuff I don't like about crypto but I'll leave that for the Soapbox.
51% attacks have already occurred, coins are still around. Even at a much higher value.

As an example from the past: https://cryptoslate.com/prolific-51...um-classic-bitcoin-gold-feathercoin-vertcoin/

Ethereum is here, so is Bitcoin Gold, Ethereum Classic (which recently got attacked) and so on. Not to say this is not a problem especially if the coin is highly used (which previously was not as much). There are coins that are 51% attack proof as well which would cause them to probably increase in value and other coins copying protection methods.
 

dexvx

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51% attacks have already occurred, coins are still around. Even at a much higher value.

As an example from the past: https://cryptoslate.com/prolific-51...um-classic-bitcoin-gold-feathercoin-vertcoin/

Ethereum is here, so is Bitcoin Gold, Ethereum Classic (which recently got attacked) and so on. Not to say this is not a problem especially if the coin is highly used (which previously was not as much). There are coins that are 51% attack proof as well which would cause them to probably increase in value and other coins copying protection methods.
Those 51% attacks were not sustained. For instance, the ETC attack was orchestrated by buying hashrate on exchanges.

The biggest problem for Bitcoin is that 70% of the hash rate is in China, from a handful of major players. In theory, the gov could just order the major players to do a 51% attack and lead to a hard fork of Bitcoin. Furthermore, all the Bitcon ASIC's are from a handful of Chinese companies.

I found it strangely ironic that hardcore libertarian / anti-government types support bitcoin.
 

Archaea

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Those 51% attacks were not sustained. For instance, the ETC attack was orchestrated by buying hashrate on exchanges.

The biggest problem for Bitcoin is that 70% of the hash rate is in China, from a handful of major players. In theory, the gov could just order the major players to do a 51% attack and lead to a hard fork of Bitcoin. Furthermore, all the Bitcon ASIC's are from a handful of Chinese companies.

I found it strangely ironic that hardcore libertarian / anti-government types support bitcoin.
It’s not just having 51% of the hashing power. There’s more to it than that. You have to rebuild it from point in time to current time (which is forever progressing forward). 51% attack is mostly impossible for a very heavily mined coin like BTC, and firmly in the land of theoretical.
 

Bill Clo

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My hobby here is Photography, and I'm a heavy user of Lightroom and Photoshop. Performance sucks on Lightroom import and editing. A faster GPU would help a lot.
Okay, I see where you are coming from. I mistakenly assumed you were primarily using the GPU for gaming. :)
 

dexvx

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It’s not just having 51% of the hashing power. There’s more to it than that. You have to rebuild it from point in time to current time (which is forever progressing forward). 51% attack is mostly impossible for a very heavily mined coin like BTC, and firmly in the land of theoretical.
It is absolutely not theoretical with bitcoin. There are literally a handful of large industrial miners in China that control ~70% of total bitcoin hash rate. There is literally 2 companies that make the almost all the bitcoin ASIC's.

To pretend bitcoin is a decentralized currency is just fantasy at this point.
 

noko

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It is absolutely not theoretical with bitcoin. There are literally a handful of large industrial miners in China that control ~70% of total bitcoin hash rate. There is literally 2 companies that make the almost all the bitcoin ASIC's.

To pretend bitcoin is a decentralized currency is just fantasy at this point.
The two ASIC companies that make ASIC's I am sure would not want Bitcoin to collapse. In addition if found to be untrustworthy the algorithm used can be changed.

There are 231 know nodes in China, 1917 in US: https://www.bitrawr.com/bitcoin-node-map

Vote for change is one miner one vote basically. Does not matter if you have 1 ASIC or 10 million ASICs, you get one vote. If a change or hardfork is needed, the owners of the networks/nodes/miners vote on the change and could erase the 51% attack. In other words it is much more than just hashrate that controls Bitcoin, while concerning it also limits the attack. The bigger the organization hashrate the less votes overall on the outcome in the end. Basically they can loose everything or voted out by the many small entities throughout the world.

There have been 51% attacks and they were handled and coins prospered afterwards. As another thought, if Bitcoin was attacked and then successfully reconciled and made stronger and survives -> that could make Bitcoin even stronger and even a more secure coin in the end. Bitcoin Org or others can make the suggestions for the changes needed and people would vote and China rather small pie of votes would not matter too much in the end.
 

Agent_N

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RVN is my guess for the next GPU exodus. It's already mined by most 4GB cards (from what I can gather).
RVN has been getting mentioned a lot more lately as the next possible coin to mine. I think if the coming years we may see a lot more paying with crypto coins when one of them gets a platform in place that can handle lots of little transactions securely, efficiently (not requiring the electrical capacity of a small country to secure blockchain!) and you can pay with your smartphone. I think crypto is hear to stay IMHO. I'm mining on my 1660 and RX 480 for the fun of it and to make a few dollars. I have no desire to build a huge crypto farm. I look at it as putting my hardware to work to make a few bucks rather than it just sitting their idle, burning electricity.
 

Agent_N

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So here we are.......6 months in and you can't find a new GPU anywhere for even a modest jack over MSRP (Im talking etail, not eBay)

What the hell happened?

poor production?
poor planning?
sudden demand?
lack of parts?
"the COVID"
greed?

what is the truth Mulder?
Stimulus checks! Have money, will spend!
 

Sir Beregond

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I have been using my computer for a different kind of gaming and hobby. I am working-on giving this virtual tabletop gaming thing a try because of Covid-19.
Our tabletop group has had a lot of fun with Tabletop Simulator, though admittedly it definitely took a lot longer to play games like Arkham Horror. Controls take some getting used to for sure. Steam also has a lot of tabletop games like Small World or Scythe for example. They ran fine on my laptop with integrated graphics that I bought in 2014. Not fast, but not stuttering either.

We also found some good deck builders and such on Board Game Arena. Race to the Galaxy, The Crew, Hanabi, etc.
 
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dexvx

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What no comment?

65% of hash rate is in China, based on IP addresses alone. 33% of global product comes from 1 province. And this is all purely obfuscated data.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/a-si...ccounts-for-one-third-of-global-btc-hash-rate

The two ASIC companies that make ASIC's I am sure would not want Bitcoin to collapse. In addition if found to be untrustworthy the algorithm used can be changed.

There are 231 know nodes in China, 1917 in US: https://www.bitrawr.com/bitcoin-node-map

Vote for change is one miner one vote basically. Does not matter if you have 1 ASIC or 10 million ASICs, you get one vote. If a change or hardfork is needed, the owners of the networks/nodes/miners vote on the change and could erase the 51% attack. In other words it is much more than just hashrate that controls Bitcoin, while concerning it also limits the attack. The bigger the organization hashrate the less votes overall on the outcome in the end. Basically they can loose everything or voted out by the many small entities throughout the world.

There have been 51% attacks and they were handled and coins prospered afterwards. As another thought, if Bitcoin was attacked and then successfully reconciled and made stronger and survives -> that could make Bitcoin even stronger and even a more secure coin in the end. Bitcoin Org or others can make the suggestions for the changes needed and people would vote and China rather small pie of votes would not matter too much in the end.
All in theory.

Doesn't change the fact that Bitcoin is very centralized and dominated by a few large industrial players from China.
 

euskalzabe

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I laughed out loud when I saw this video in my YT feed today:

This is what we've gotten to. A live feed checking multiple sources to get something. Buying a GPU looks like following stocks at NYSE or something crazy like that.
I'm giving up for now. Getting the FE 3060 Ti is too hard. The 3060 12GB is uninteresting to me. Maybe the rumored 3050 will be cheap enough to warrant more performance than my 1060 3GB and hold me over for a couple years.
I'll be fully vaccinated for covid by end of this week anyway, so I'm going to start heading out of the house anyway!
 
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