What don't you like about your current WC setup?

Colonel_Panic

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A friend of mine is researching the design and manufacture of water cooling equipment and I'm looking to work with him on it. We're hoping to correct some of the design flaws with the current equipment we're using now (mostly EK and Aqua Computer).

What problems have you folks encountered with your current equipment?

This can include everything from blocks to filters to reservoirs to radiators. A few weeks ago I came across some fouling issues with my Aqua Cuplex block for socket 1366 (there's a warning post somewhere here) so we'd like to address those.
 

Tsumi

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Expensive...

Not enough airflow (although that's more of the case's fault). Switching the mounting mechanism to a different motherboard can occasionally be a pain.

Had a cracked reservoir that started leaking once, but it was a cheap used one.
 

AdvanSuper

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My Ultra Kaze's are starting to annoy me that's about it.

Oh and the shitty job EK did of nickel plating their GPU blocks.
 

Blazemore

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Bitspower fittings are expensive. Buying a full size case to handle all the wcing. End result of having a quite oc'ed computer, it's worth it.
 

diredesire

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i'll echo expensive fittings. it's pretty ridiculous, IMHO. Modding the case is the biggest pain in the ass, and the biggest barrier to newbs, but there's nothing you can do about that unless you decide to go into case design. If you do, the low numbers would drive price up really high (see mountain mods)
 
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Modding the case, but once its done it looks beautiful.

Deciding to add a GPU block when I should of done it in the beginning.
 

Crispy002

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+1 on price of fittings (particularly compression). I can understand some of them are difficult to manufacture and heavy to ship but the pricing on fittings is ridiculous.

Reservoirs are also overpriced. An acrylic tube and threaded ABS caps should not cost $30+.

Pump mounting and vibration is also a tricky issue. The best solution I've come across is/was Petra's "gel stuff". Petra's transferred ownership though and I'm unsure if the new owners are continuing that product.
 

Pitbull

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due to changing mobo pciexpress slot is lower and now my pump wont fit under the gfx card, pump is too loud.
 

fx9

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I find silencing the pump is the greatest annoyance. I tried multiple things to silence it but the only thing that seemed to work was mounting the pump on a packing foam block that came in a fedex box. Seems to work really well, just flip it over so the pump is on the side without the bumps on it.


packing_foam_package_foam_sponge.jpg
 
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Yea I'm about to run into the pump noise issue with my new build. My new GT's 1850's on a fan controler are way quieter then my Koolace 400 pump. Thats even with the pump on a controler turned all the way down.
 

jeremyshaw

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that mine sucks (DDC VC1 + MCR 220 with the res) attached to a MCW80 for one of my GTX570s in my FT03....

DDC VC1 is leaky, so it runs external :( Integrated res doesn't do awesome in telling me how much water I have, so I have to check almost every night (lest I forget).
 

DanNeely

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Not enough capacity for my GPU (will be fixed in next rig), and annoyingly high fluid loss rates requiring a monthly reservoir topoff (will be ameliorated with a much bigger res if nothing else).
 

Colonel_Panic

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Not enough capacity for my GPU (will be fixed in next rig), and annoyingly high fluid loss rates requiring a monthly reservoir topoff (will be ameliorated with a much bigger res if nothing else).

Why the fluid loss? Sealed systems are key because fluid volume is basically the only factor to performance.
 

DanNeely

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Why the fluid loss? Sealed systems are key because fluid volume is basically the only factor to performance.
not a clue. I have dye in my loop and wrapped all the connections/bottoms of parts with tissue for a month. Nothing was stained. My only guesses are that the tygon tubing I'm is more porous to water vapor, or the top cap on the res won't make a tight seal and I'm losing water vapor that way.
 

mattidallama

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the fact that to get a computer WC it takes lots of time and money to make it look good and not just a bunch of tubes and wires cluttering your case. The cable and tube management is the fun part
 

Tsumi

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Why the fluid loss? Sealed systems are key because fluid volume is basically the only factor to performance.

What the hell are you talking about? Fluid volume has absolutely no factor on performance unless the levels are so low that air gets into your system. And the only sealed systems are the Corsair H series or similar.

It's not too unreasonable to have to refill every so often, but once a month is a bit excessive. Just how much are you actually losing though?
 

Willsonman

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I put water cooling in my wife's computer and it was a sealed system. Had to refill it every 3 months or so but every month is crazy. I believe it was the tubing since it was not tygon and came with a thermaltake kit. The Thermaltake pump died after 1.5 years and I pute her on air cooling after that. Air coolers have come a long way in the past 5 years or so. I'm not into OCing anymore but still have my main rig with WCing. Even the D5 pump is loud IMO so I am working on a DIY pump that I think a lot of users here at the [H] may find interesting.
 

Cruiza

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The only "refilling" I've had to do is due to bleeding over time. My D5 is easily the quietest moving thing in my system thanks to Petra's Gel-Stuff; pretty sure even my PSU fan is louder.
 

DanNeely

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What the hell are you talking about? Fluid volume has absolutely no factor on performance unless the levels are so low that air gets into your system. And the only sealed systems are the Corsair H series or similar.

It's not too unreasonable to have to refill every so often, but once a month is a bit excessive. Just how much are you actually losing though?
about 1" in my swifty microres, probably between 3 and 4 cubic inches in volume.

To the extent that tygon could be an issue I have a lot more in my loop than is typical due to case layout: Rad is installed on the 2nd set of 120mm cutouts above the mobo, pump/res are behind the mobo near the bottom, and I have probably almost a foot of net slack in the tubing that could be removed without causing any trouble..
 

Tsumi

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I have a Swiftech Microres V2, and I do lose a bit of water, especially when things get hot. I can't seem to get the top cap tight enough. For example, I didn't game for ~2-3 weeks (finals and spring break), and there was barely any water loss. After I got back, I went on a gaming spree for about 4 hours a day, for 3-4 days, with fans running on low (which allowed the loop to get fairly hot). I easily lost ~ half in. of water in just that time period.

Also, the D5 is probably the quietest thing in my system. When my secondary hard drive is seeking (an old Maxtor), or my Velociraptor is defragmenting, I can hear those over the fans, which are louder than the pump.
 

Untitledone

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What I dont like about my water cooling setup is that I dont have one yet!
 

Tsumi

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Hopefully with some of the work I'm doing, WC will be accessible to more folks!

True watercooling would probably not be any more accessible whatever you do, unless you opt for systems like the H50 (which I do not consider to be a "true" watercooling setup), or you're magically able to make everything cost much less. Most of the problems have already been worked out, as watercooling is very mature now, and the few problems encountered are usually individual cases, like someone got a damaged block that passed QA or whatever, similar to someone getting a DOA hard drive.

For the masses, issues with watercooling are:
1. Expense.
2. More maintenance (most people aren't willing to make sure to take care of their systems, they just want things to work with minimal effort).
3. Use of water in a computer, and the potential for frying a component, however small the odds may be.
4. Difficulty of setting up. This goes along with 2 above.
 

jeremyshaw

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"modular" cooling system with good rotary quick disconnects would probably be a step in the right direction :p
 

Tsumi

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"modular" cooling system with good rotary quick disconnects would probably be a step in the right direction :p

Which would also greatly increase the costs of building a system, look how much Koolance QDC's cost. And yes, there are rotary QDC's avaliable.
 

Untitledone

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Hopefully with some of the work I'm doing, WC will be accessible to more folks!

That would be cool. Maybe the materials used? I wonder if stainless steel for the non-thermally conductive portions(connections and splices) could lower the cost over nickel plated components. The nickel is used to protect the components from corrosion, and typically materials with high thermal conductivity (like copper) are very suseptive to corrosion. That means you have to machine the components, and then you have to dip it in a solution, and electroplate the nickel on. Stainless steel could end up being cheaper if you consider that you would only need to machine it, and it would be ready for exposure to water or other liquids. You could also see the thermal transfer characteristics of the stainless steel to see if it adequate for the thermally conductive portions of the system (CPU blocks, GPU, etc.), You could also look into a different coolant that is relatively cheap with good heat transfer characteristics that does not corrode metals like copper so that you may not need to coat the copper with a protective material. If that fluid also happened to be electrically non-conductive there would be less worry of damaging components if there was a leak.

Just some thoughts from a non-owner of water cooling systems with very little experience with materials science, thermodynamics, and fluid dynamics.
 

sok0

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Pretty sure that unless the stainless steel is perfectly passivated where the extra iron left over by the machining process are removed with some acid solution forming a perfect layer of chromium oxide , it will corrode if it is in the same loop as copper and brass. I also wouldnt be surprised once it's all said and done, brass is actually cheaper than stainless steel after you have to plate it and acid wash it and everything. The ONLY reason parts are nickle plated in watercooling is to keep them from tarnishing(copper/brass). Brass/nickle/copper/silver/gold can all be in the same loop together and not have any kind of problems.

And I am also 90% sure that "non" conductive products will be conductive after adding them into a water cooling loop because metals and other particles left over in the loop will dissolve into the water over time. No way to clean everything perfectly.
 
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Untitledone

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This is making me want to build my own system using custom parts. I have plenty of old rigs to test it on that I wont care too much in the event of failure. Hmm, I guess I will have to add this to my list ahead of my phase change cooling ideas.

EDIT: Oh and to the poster above, I was thinking of using all stainless steel. I know that it doesnt transfer heat as well as copper, but if it transfers enough it might be worth it.
 

Tsumi

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Untitledone... not to bash on you or anything, but you really need to read up on your facts. Most people with experience in watercooling tell you that you never use any special coolant, you just use distilled water, which is non-conductive until things get into it.

If stainless steal was a good alternative to copper, someone would have already done it. The fact that they didn't means that it must not work that well.

Nickel plating is not meant for anti-corrosion. Most blocks and radiators have no nickel plating. Nickel plating is mostly for cosmetic reasons, and serves almost no other real purpose.

Copper does not corrode as long as you don't have a system that also has aluminum in it (which some older radiators are made of). Corrosion happens when there's a transfer of electrons, and for a transfer of electrons to occur, two opposing metals (like copper and aluminum) must be used.
 

Untitledone

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Sorry about that, this is probably my first day even looking into water cooling seriously. I have seen pictures before of course, but I never actually read up on it. I will hit the books in the next few weeks and see what I can come up with.
 

Colonel_Panic

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Thanks for all the comments, everyone. Should our concepts reach a design stage, I'll be sure to include as many suggestions as possible.
 

Zoson

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The biggest issue with watercooling is all the 'prefab' watercooling cases are pieces of garbage. Give us the likes of an A10 that has the bottom customized for 5x120mm rads...

Current offerings are way too big for what they can fit.
 

Tsumi

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The biggest issue with watercooling is all the 'prefab' watercooling cases are pieces of garbage. Give us the likes of an A10 that has the bottom customized for 5x120mm rads...

Current offerings are way too big for what they can fit.

Yeah, it would be nice to see better support for larger radiators in cases at a reasonable price point. Something along the lines of the Silverstone Raven with room for at least a 4x120 or 3x140 in the rear, blowing out the back.
 

jeremyshaw

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Yeah, it would be nice to see better support for larger radiators in cases at a reasonable price point. Something along the lines of the Silverstone Raven with room for at least a 4x120 or 3x140 in the rear, blowing out the back.

iirc, didn't the RV01 have WC grommets and mounts at the back? external, but still supported?

EDIT: I guess not :(
 
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