What do you want/expect from 2019 low/mid range monitors?

Discussion in 'Displays' started by euskalzabe, Aug 20, 2018.

  1. euskalzabe

    euskalzabe Gawd

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    It's been a while since we've had news on where the panel industry is heading next year. TFTcentral posted a couple updates in May, although they focus on high end products. Lately, in fact, it all seems to be about the high end: the HDR Rog Swift, or the HDR Predator, or 1440p curved ultrawides... They sound great, but I wonder what's happening in the lower end of the spectrum - how are low and mid panels improving, way, in 29" ultrawides? If you look at the 2016, 2017 or 2018 models, they're pretty much the exact same stagnant technology - with the exception of say, LG's 29WK600 doing the absolute minimum by adding HDR10 support but not the hardware capacity to show it.

    At some point, and I'm betting that's 2019, they'll have to offer something in mid and low tiers for people to buy new models, otherwise there is no reason to spend the money. IPS and Freesync at sub-$400 models is old news. They're definitely not going to get FALD backlights anytime soon. But what about %90 DCI P3 coverage? I'd buy a new monitor just for the better colors. Maybe DisplayHDR400 certification, which should be the absolute bare minimum, I'd hope for DisplayHDR600 to become quite commonplace.

    What about you low/mid range monitor users? What do you want/expect from 2019?
     
  2. ReaperX22

    ReaperX22 Gawd

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    After I upgraded my brothers computer from a GTX 750 Ti to an RX 570, I was looking at budget options for him should he then want to upgrade his monitor. It seems there's a lot more lower-end budget monitors with 75hz and freesync enabled, so I think that's where we're slowly heading for the low-end, more budget higher refresh rate monitors with adaptive syncs. I don't think you'll find any great colour reproduction units without spending a few hundred.

    I'd honestly just like a refreshed/high quality Asus PG279Q.. Or equivalent. all those monitors with 165hz IPS G Sync 1440p have the same quality control issues.. So considering their cost I've been extremely hesistant to even consider buying one in fear of QC issues.
     
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  3. ors

    ors Limp Gawd

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    I'm waiting for the 32" 4k IPS monitors to come down in price. 75hz would also be nice, but not a top prio for me.
     
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  4. HiCZoK

    HiCZoK Gawd

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    I am not looking at 4k monitors until they fix the god damn 1080p scaling. For now, every monitor is blurring and stretching everything that is not 4k.

    I just want a good picture quality 1080p monitor up to 27". 240hz and gsync... 1440p and 4k are not worth it and cause too much scaling issues for me. On the other hand, 4k downsampled to 1080p, looks great on a 1080p monitor
     
  5. ors

    ors Limp Gawd

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    I use a 4k (unfortunately it's a sluggish VA) since half a year and had 0 scaling issues. Couldn't go back to the pixelated and blurry text that 1080p offers, granted I am a programmer and work with text all day... For the casual gaming I do I don't mind the scaling the monitor does in 1080p or 1440p depending on the game, however this won't be a problem in 1-2 years when GPUs catch up... I usually update my hardware every 5-6 years including the monitor, so no way I'll buy even 1440p, but can accept that for some text rendering is not important...
     
  6. GNUse_the_force

    GNUse_the_force Limp Gawd

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    Should that be happening ? 4 x 1080p = 4k. Surely the scaling is linear and should just be a 'flatter' version of 4k.I have run 1080p on my 1440p monitor and it doesn't look too bad even though there is a scaling mismatch, so long as you give yourself some extra seating distance.



    to answer the question though:

    1. Cheaper 4k IPS panels with freesync2 @ 75hz ( if possible ) i know it's not much more than 60hz, but it's still not 60hz. It's amazing that those shitty 28" TN 4k panels from 5 years ago are still in the $300- $400 range.
    (bought one based on a recommendation from a monitor reviewer on here.. terrible, glad i swapped it for decent brand with a VA panel instead)

    2. More 144hz/165hz 1440p screens @ 27" with freesync2 at reasonable prices. And 4k input accepted from consoles via HDMi. Modern monitors should be multi-purpose or people may aswell just get a large 4k TV and forget about it.

    3. More 21:9 screens with higher refresh rates. The 29" LG was a nice screen but it really needs some higher refresh goodness and perhaps a better panel type for deeper colors. Connectivity for 4k consoles is a plus, as at that size stretching 16:9 doesn't actually look too bad.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2018
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  7. icor1031

    icor1031 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Gloss. I want gloss. I expect gloss.
     
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  8. ReaperX22

    ReaperX22 Gawd

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    ? 1440p hasn't got scaling issues really? It's not a high enough res to be an issue. As long as you're 27" and above. I find scaling in windows to be perfect for 1440p 27". If you're referring specifically to movies/videos, I've still yet to have a problem there either. I cannot for the life of me tell the difference between 1080p and 1440p youtube vids at 1440p 27" 2-3m away. (the only time id actually watch them typically is away from the comp, in my old setup at least).
     
  9. XoR_

    XoR_ Gawd

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    the same as low/mid range monitors: nothing
     
  10. HiCZoK

    HiCZoK Gawd

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    But that is not how it is. The scaling is not linear (integer). Every resolution other than 4k (even 1080p) is stretched with bilinear filtering or something like that applied. This is crazy that we have this issues in 2018
     
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  11. jbltecnicspro

    jbltecnicspro [H]ardness Supreme

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    I expect a monitor that can:

    - Come within striking distance of my CRT for contrast (Give me a true 4000:1 static and I'll be happy)
    - Have excellent motion resolution
    - Little input lag (< 10ms)
    - Conform to sRGB (Rec 709) (No oversaturations!)
    - Be under $500.

    It's 2018 and we're still making compromises that we didn't have to make with CRT*

    *Ergonomics notwithstanding. Yes I know these beasts are huge motherfuckers, I don't need to be reminded every time. :)
     
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  12. thecold

    thecold Limp Gawd

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    Yea that's not gonna happen.
     
  13. elvn

    elvn 2[H]4U

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    The FW900 graphics professional CRT released in 2001 was $2000. In 2018 dollars, that is $2878.

    In 2019 we'll most likely have LG 55"HDR OLED with hdmi 2.1 input for 120hz 4k, VRR (variable refresh rate hdmi standard), QFT (Quick Frame Transport for low input lag gaming). They'll probably cost at least a few grand at first I don't expect nvidia to support VRR for awhile due to gsync but hopefully some gaming gpu in 2020 will have hdmi 2.1 VRR and QFT. Xbox already supports VRR on hdmi 2.0b so it will really depend on pc gpu manufacturers being willing to support it or not.
     
  14. LigTasm

    LigTasm [H]ardness Supreme

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    I expect the same overwhelming level of absolutely nothing that the display industry has put out for the last 10 years.
     
  15. Skyblue

    Skyblue Limp Gawd

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    I would hope for something that could replace my Dell 3011.. Better picture, 4k, 100hz, hdr, gsync perhaps... 30-32 inches.
     
  16. HiCZoK

    HiCZoK Gawd

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    I expect them to be fully glossy with matte black bezels.
    No edge lit but backlit like it used to be
    No corner blb on IPS
    No edge blb on TN
    No clouding on TN or VA
    Minimal glow with IPS
    Minimal gamma shift with VA
    va/ips/tb variants all with flat panels, gsync option and 1080p-4k 144-240hz panels with no scanlines
    Contrast 1200/1300 + on IPS and TN.

    Now pick 1 and realize it's not gonna happen anyway.
     
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  17. bigbluefe

    bigbluefe Gawd

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    The most realistic response.
     
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  18. elvn

    elvn 2[H]4U

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    It's a funny quip. Monitor tech is slow and even what we have took a long time to get here with a big stagnant period so they deserve the disdain.

    In reality it's not 100% true though in recent years.
    • 27" 1920x1080 and 2560x1440 monitor size increase
    • 120hz+ 1080p since 2010
    • g-sync since 2014
    • 120hz+ with g-sync 27" at 2560x1440 2014
    • 100hz+ 21:9 3440x1440 in the last few years
    • 4k 120hz is new
    • HDR rollout is "new" in the last few years.
    • FALD in a gaming display and the high contrast and deep black levels it can provide is new this year.
    • HDR 4k OLED at 120hz with VRR variable refresh rate and QFT low input lag, 4k 120hz hdmi 2.1 will be new. Granted it will prob be 55" LG OLED at the smallest at first in 2019 but well worth it to me to rearrange my game station.
    • TCL has tech for printing JOLED 31" at some point in upcoming few years.
    • Larger sizes with most of the above applicable features are/will be "new"

    • Micro LED FALD backlight arrays are rumored to be made in several years. If they get tiny enough they may work a lot better than current 384 zone FALD's cons.
    • True emissive quantum dot displays could be made in future years, using no backlight and using no organic parts like OLEDs do.

    What I'll need is a gpu that supports the relevant features listed above. Xbox already supports VRR but nvidia will probably drag their feet a long time.

    --------------------------------------------

    Backlights
    Edge lit backlights exacerbate most of the issues listed by HiC.
    FALD helps but micro LED backlights are needed vs halos/brightness bleed "glow", expecially for HDR which is where content is going in the long run. OLED or other per pixel emissive displays are the best solution.
    Contrast is greatly increased using FALD, and screen uniformity issues and glow are greatly diminished. OLED is in a class of it's own.. so either would solve the contrast issue. The problem has been OLED lacks 120hz and VRR, and low input lag. This will change in 2019 with hdmi 2.1 LG OLED tvs.

    Contrast Ratios
    I disagree about 1200 - 1300:1 contrast comment and the associated black depths. They are really weak. I'll never go back to it. Modern gaming VAs are up to 3000:1.
    The FALD HDR IPS monitors with dynamic FALD activated in SDR mode are .02 black depth and ~6000:1 contrast ratio per tftcentral.com 's tests. The VA versions will likely be even better as VA gaming screens have 3x the contrast ratio of IPS to start with.
    You did say 1200/1300+ though. I'd say ~3000:1 at the very least. I'll be going 120hz HDR OLED in the next few years though and never looking back. LG OLED contrast ratio is infinite:1.
    Screen Surfacing - Room and Lighting Design
    I agree, Glossy is superior. You should design your PC entertainment room/battle station around your screen(s) and sound system much like a home theater or photography studio, not the other way around. No direct light sources bouncing off the screens. Glossy is superb which is why OLED tvs are glossy, MAC displays, etc. Rich, saturated, no haze. Even with AG you get a glow ball on the screen from direct light sources which ruins color saturation and contrast in areas. At 4k or high pixel density, coatings are an even worse idea for text and fine details.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2018
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  19. DanNeely

    DanNeely 2[H]4U

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    At the 60hz/freesync/IPS level Monoprice has an entrant for only $400. I wouldn't expect much downward movement from there until something better than "4k but faster" is on the market, or TV sized displays gobble up most of the big screen gaming market that 32" currently holds.

    https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=27772
     
  20. DanNeely

    DanNeely 2[H]4U

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    The numbers I've seen for micro LED were ~1000 zone backlights on a 27/32" class monitor, vs 384 on AUOs current design, that works out to backlight tile sizes about 2/3rds as wide/tall as we've got now, which will be better but is a far cry from OLEDs single pixel illumination control.

    A few years ago I recall reading about research done into "double layer LCDs" that at the expense of burning a lot of power running the backlight at a very high value all the time could get ~ 1,700,000:1 or 9,000,000:1 (IPS or VA, 1300^2 or 3000^2) by using a second LCD with no color filters on top of the first that would go all the way open for maximum HDR brightness and all the way shut for maximum HDR black. I don't know where or if this is making progress towards production. At the time I think they were talking about a conventional single zone backlight, but in theory there's no reason it couldn't be combined with a FALD/MicroLED one to keep power use in control.
     
  21. ors

    ors Limp Gawd

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    400$ would be fine if some of the bigger manufacturers get there (lg, AOC, etc). Monoprice is only available in my country via Amazon and considering how shitty QA on monitors is right now I only buy from local shops which have hassle free returns... Currenty the cheapest locally is an LG but it's at 750$
     
  22. bigbluefe

    bigbluefe Gawd

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    G-Sync's really the only thing that happened. I had a ZR30W in 2009. 2560x1600 (higher resolution), better aspect ratio (16:10). There are so few 30"+ 4k gaming monitors they might as well not exist.

    Things blow.
     
  23. euskalzabe

    euskalzabe Gawd

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    I'm still holding hope for 144hz 29" ultrawides... I don't understand why there's 34" 2560x1080 144hz panels, where the dpi is quite low, but not 29" versions. I don't want a 34" 1080p panel, but I'd get a 29" one with high refresh and pay more for it.
     
  24. gan7114

    gan7114 Limp Gawd

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    Where are you both reading that microLED requires a backlight?

    MicroLED is self-emissive, just like OLED. Are you perhaps confusing microLED with miniLED?
     
  25. elvn

    elvn 2[H]4U

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    Possibly. I meant tinier mini led whatever you want to call it. much smaller withoit being 4k pixel sized array
     
  26. gan7114

    gan7114 Limp Gawd

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    There was an interesting report today over at MacRumors, saying that Apple just met with AU Optronics and other manufacturers this week about advancements in microLED R&D.

    https://www.macrumors.com/2018/08/30/apple-meets-taiwanese-microled-makers/

    I usually sing praises for OLED, but if the industry can make microLED viable, it will surpass OLED and be the preferred technology. At that point, it’ll be like the LCD vs Plasma days (the latter of which was never suitable for monitors either) and OLED will see a gradual decline. Right now, one of the major hurdles is the deposition process for each microLED. With Apple, Samsung, and LG all throwing money and weight behind it, we’ll probably be seeing microLED on small devices in a few years.

    When it might show up on monitors, that’s anyone’s guess, but judging by how slow monitor manufacturers advance their products, I wouldn’t be surprised if it were awhile.
     
  27. euskalzabe

    euskalzabe Gawd

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    We've already seen MicroLED, both at CES 2018 from Samsung and right now at IFA from Samsung and LG. If I remember correctly, Samsung was planning to commercialize MicroLED already in 2019. It's supposed to be easier to make in larger sizes than small ones, so bigger displays first are more likely. It might completely fail on us, but so far 2019 is shaping up to be a very interesting year (and a big reason why I'm going to hold off on upgrading my current 4K panel).