What card to get when running 780s?

Marcdaddy

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 21, 2003
Messages
3,633
Guys what card should be run as a dedicated card sitting next to 780gtxs in Sli? My friend is asking and I have no idea, does he need another 7 series or go much cheaper?
 

257Tony

Gawd
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
721
if he absolutely has to have another card for PhysX (he doesn't, IMO), no need for a 780. Something like a 650Ti Boost would be great.
 

Marcdaddy

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 21, 2003
Messages
3,633
I'm running 3 780s in Tri Sli and I don't use a dedicated card lol. Don't know if it would even matter for me.
 

evilsofa

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jan 1, 2007
Messages
10,078
Dedicated PhysX cards were a thing back in the gtx 260 days when PhysX work might have taken up a significant percentage of the video card's processing power, so you would offload that to the 8800GT you upgraded from. Now, with GTX 780 in SLI, you have ten times the power and dedicated PhysX cards are more likely to slow your system down than to help.
 

Araxie

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 11, 2013
Messages
6,449
Do games even use PhysX anymore? I always thought it was a gimmick API that died a long time ago.

ins't died at all, and yes, games uses PhysX, couple of recent games with PhysX?. Batman Arkham Origins(and all the batman series), Metro Last light(and 2033), Lost Planet Series, Borderlands (1 and 2), Assassins Creed IV, Mirrors edge and couple of more Etc games if you think it was a gimmick then you never has played any of those games with any Nvcard.. even upcoming games like The Witcher 3 or Mirrors Edge 2 will use PhysX confirmed and others like The division and WatchDogs are rumored that may use it..

About the OP.. what card to get?. None.. actually ins't necessary any dedicated PhysX card, specially if are a powerful system like that.. adding a third card to a 780SLI its just add power consumption and heat to the case, those card have more than plenty power to handle enough PhysX alone.. a dedicated PhysX will do nothing to improve performance in actual games with PhysX even in the 2 hardest to handle like Metro LastLight and Assassins creed IV..
 

Matthew Kane

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Dec 1, 2007
Messages
4,233
GTS450, essentially a 9800GTX rebadge. Plenty for physx without using too much power since your 780's are powerful as it is.
 

Tyler-Durden

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
Messages
2,302
For 780 SLI, I say forget a PhysX card. Just no need for it. I run a single 780 and plugged in a GT 640 I kept from a previous build. I noticed smoother game play in Borderlands 2 with the 640 as a PhysX card. Can't tell if it makes a difference in other games.
 

schoenda

Gawd
Joined
Apr 8, 2003
Messages
860
FWIW...

Metro LL Benchmarck
2560x1600, DX11, Ultra High Quality, AF 16x, Adv. PhysX, Very High tesselation, Motion Blur normal, SSAA ON

See rig in sig

780 SLI with 650Ti dedicated to physx Min: 10 Max: 118 Avg: 36.85
780 SLI without 650Ti Min: 10 Max: 108 Avg: 32.81

Not sure if Metro LL is best platform for this comparison...Any better games to use?
 

schoenda

Gawd
Joined
Apr 8, 2003
Messages
860
Does BL2 have a built in benchmarking utility? Way to difficult to do it the old fashion way...(As my 2 year old is screaming for her toy)
 

Matthew Kane

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Dec 1, 2007
Messages
4,233
Not to my knowledge you can toggle the draw fps display via console, I use Dxtory or Fraps to gauge my FPS.
 

FrankD400

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 31, 2013
Messages
153
Matthew, in what way is a GTS 450 a 9800 GTX rebadge? It's video card history time! They're actually completely different. 9800 GTX was G92 based and a rebadged 8800 GTS. The 9800 GTX+ was G92b and the same core config but higher clocks, and then rebranded as a GTS 250. The GTS 450 is a GF106 Fermi based card having no relation to either Tesla architecture or the first CUDA (G80/G9x) cards. It has 192/32/16 shaders/TMUs/ROPs vs the 128/64/16 of the G92/G92b.

The GTS 450 actually has less raw single precision GFLOPS throughput than the GTS 250. End history lesson.
 

Rizen

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 16, 2000
Messages
9,393
He has absolutely no need for a dedicated PhysX card with 780 SLI. It will just add more heat and power consumption to his system and will make negligible difference in the small # of games that support GPU PhysX. Tell him to save his money.
 

Matthew Kane

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Dec 1, 2007
Messages
4,233
Matthew, in what way is a GTS 450 a 9800 GTX rebadge? It's video card history time! They're actually completely different. 9800 GTX was G92 based and a rebadged 8800 GTS. The 9800 GTX+ was G92b and the same core config but higher clocks, and then rebranded as a GTS 250. The GTS 450 is a GF106 Fermi based card having no relation to either Tesla architecture or the first CUDA (G80/G9x) cards. It has 192/32/16 shaders/TMUs/ROPs vs the 128/64/16 of the G92/G92b.

The GTS 450 actually has less raw single precision GFLOPS throughput than the GTS 250. End history lesson.

Actually you're right made a mistake there and meant the GTS250 and the GTS450 was not much different to the 250 in terms of performance.
 
Last edited:

Marcdaddy

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 21, 2003
Messages
3,633
Guys question regarding different card for Physix, after installation boot back into windows then just install driver then change settings in Nvidia control panel to the dedicated card correct? Running 2 sets of video drivers at the same time is ok?
 

Araxie

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 11, 2013
Messages
6,449
you will not be using 2 sets of video drivers, Nvidia use a unified driver for all their series... so the most recent 334.89 are the same drivers used in the for example geforce 9XXX series.. so the drivers will be the same not matter the amount of cards taking the case in the OP 2 gtx 780 will work in SLI and a third card will work as dedicated physX its just a matter of configuration but the drivers will work the same in a game instace, the game will not recognize where its processed the PhysX.
 

DraginDime

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
Messages
1,430
I'd just tell him to get a Titan Black for Physx, no point in bullshitting around with it ;)


I've not ran into any games that cause a significant enough hit in performance to warrant a dedicated card for physx with my SLI 780s
 

gerardfraser

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
1,113
Physx it rocks in old Physx games,new games like AC4 still sucks LOL.
780TI with 680GTX
 

Skirrow

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Mar 25, 2005
Messages
1,221
Serious question. But what about a dual 770 with a 460 for physx? pointless or worth it? (my new build is 2x 770 sli and have my old 460 for physx if need be)
 

thekamikazepr

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Messages
152
Not really any point to use a lot of extra power for maybe 3-5 extra fps at best? If any at all

If he had it laying around the room yes, but invest in a dedicated card for this? No
 

evilsofa

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jan 1, 2007
Messages
10,078
Serious question. But what about a dual 770 with a 460 for physx? pointless or worth it? (my new build is 2x 770 sli and have my old 460 for physx if need be)

It is more likely that the 460 will generate enough heat that the 770s will downclock and reduce performance overall than it is to improve performance. So, no. Don't bother.
 

FrankD400

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 31, 2013
Messages
153
Pointless or not is up to you. Is the possibility of a few frames per second worth using an extra 100w+? If you really must have a dedicated PhysX card for whatever reason (and it's up to you to determine if it's worth it), a GTX 750 / 750 Ti would be impossible to beat in terms of performance vs increased power consumption + noise. The flip side is it'll cost you $150+.

Do the games you have that support hardware PhysX *and* SLI load your GPUs up to 100% with perfect SLI scaling? Put the 460 in since you have it. See how much of an increase you get. Then decide if it's worth the extra heat/power/noise to use a separate PhysX card. This isn't really something that can be answered for you. There are people that it would be worth it to do, and people that wouldn't think it's worth it. You're asking for preference.

If you're going to ask if you're going to get a performance increase in a PhysX game -- an unqualified "probably".

Is it worth it to have the extra heat/power use in the game? How about while NOT in the game? Is it worth spending $150 on a new card for the performance increase? You tell us what you find with the 460 and if it's worth it TO YOU to use the 460 as a PhysX card.

460 generating enough heat that the 770s will downclock sounds bogus unless you already have thermal/airflow problems in your case.

Everything is a tradeoff.
 

schoenda

Gawd
Joined
Apr 8, 2003
Messages
860
Just to play Devil's advocate here...my quick little Last Light benches, (above), show about a 10% performance increase in both max and avg fps with dedicated physx...now, in my case I had the extra card laying around...replaced card in my media PC, but just saying...some people pay much more than 130$ (used 650Ti) for 10%...and as for the 'rarity' of physx games, right now the last 2 batman games, black flag, and last light are on my backlog and I still play BL2...soooo...
 
Last edited:

Skirrow

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Mar 25, 2005
Messages
1,221
I'll run a few tests when my parts arrive next week. It just seems a waste having the 460 sitting in a box. I'll run a few benches with and without and see if its worth it :)
 

Unknown-One

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Mar 5, 2005
Messages
8,905
Gotta be careful using dedicated PhysX cards when you have GPU's of that caliber.

If the PhysX card is too slow, you can run into situations where the primary graphics card has to stop and wait for PhysX calculations (and it might wait SO long that it could have processed graphics + PhysX simultaneously at a faster rate).
 

cp_kirkley

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 4, 2012
Messages
187
Truth. Before I got the single 680, I had dual 670 4gb, and I got lower framerates running a 640 as dedicated physx than I did having the second 670 do the calculations. I haven't looked back since. Maybe with the lower tier cards a dedicated physx would be helpful, but to me it just isnt worth the extra expense, and heat.
 

Hostile

Gawd
Joined
Feb 24, 2004
Messages
687
Currently I'm running a GTX 660 Ti and have been using an old GTX 280 for PhysX but I'm about to replace the 660 with a EVGA 780 Dual FTW and was wondering if it was still worth keeping the 280 installed for PhysX with the 780.

Will my 750w PCP&C PSU be ok with both cards?
 

Armenius

Fully [H]
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
22,925
Currently I'm running a GTX 660 Ti and have been using an old GTX 280 for PhysX but I'm about to replace the 660 with a EVGA 780 Dual FTW and was wondering if it was still worth keeping the 280 installed for PhysX with the 780.

Will my 750w PCP&C PSU be ok with both cards?
If you didn't sell the GTX 660 it would be better to use it for PhysX with a GTX 780. I made a post where I tried out an old GTX 570 I had sitting around for PhysX and it is possible to see upward of 50% more performance with hardware-accelerated PhysX. The GTX 660 and 570 are similar in both 3D and DirectCompute performance, so performance gains should be similar if not better when pairing the GTX 660 to your GTX 780. The post I made analyzing my results can be found here. YMMV, of course.

My GTX 780 is usually running around 80-85% of its TDP, or about 200-215 watts. The GTX 660 has a target TDP of 115W IIRC, and the max TDP of the 2600K is 95W. So I would estimate a worst-case scenario power draw of your entire system being around 500W. I usually shoot for a for a power supply where the system would be using around 60% of its max power output, so your current PSU should be fine if you decide to use both the GTX 660 and GTX 780. When running games without PhysX, the drivers basically turn off the dedicated PhysX card anyway.
 

Hostile

Gawd
Joined
Feb 24, 2004
Messages
687
My post wasn't particularly clear, I'm not keeping the 660 Ti. It's already sold. I want to know if the GTX 280 is worth keeping for PhysX.
 

Armenius

Fully [H]
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
22,925
The GTX 280 may not offer enough performance gains with PhysX to be worth it when pairing to a GTX 780. My advice would be to test it yourself. I would be interested in seeing your results :). I would just keep an eye on your power because the GTX 280's target TDP is in the same range as the GTX 780, which could push demand up to 80% of your PSU's max output in the worst-case scenario under full load while playing a PhysX-enabled game.
 

Hostile

Gawd
Joined
Feb 24, 2004
Messages
687
I installed the 780 this morning and just left the 280 out of the case. I'll just have to play Borderlands 2 and the Batman games with PhysX on. If it runs well I won't bother with the 280. If it gets laggy with PhysX on I'll throw the 280 back in and see how goes.

The power draw of both the 780 and 280 does concern me though since I've had this PCP&C 750w Silencer for a long time now. I'd have to look it up but it's at least 6 years old. That's the longest I've had any PSU.
 

Armenius

Fully [H]
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
22,925
I installed the 780 this morning and just left the 280 out of the case. I'll just have to play Borderlands 2 and the Batman games with PhysX on. If it runs well I won't bother with the 280. If it gets laggy with PhysX on I'll throw the 280 back in and see how goes.

The power draw of both the 780 and 280 does concern me though since I've had this PCP&C 750w Silencer for a long time now. I'd have to look it up but it's at least 6 years old. That's the longest I've had any PSU.
I've had the original Thermaltake W0131RU 850w model for 7 years now (4 separate +12V rails :cool:) and it hasn't skipped a beat. It's actually in its third system now ;). It's always great to have a part that continues to operate outside of the warranty period. That unit of yours is a pretty high-quality product as well, so I would expect it to still be trucking along strong.
 

Hostile

Gawd
Joined
Feb 24, 2004
Messages
687
I fired up Arkham City last night, cranked everything up and it ran perfectly for the 10 minutes or so I played. Specifically, was playing as Catwoman after the main campaign and fought the 20+ gang of Two-Face's thugs in the museum in the electrified cage room.

I'll have to get to a point outside and see how it runs with the entire city in view.
 

Choopyplz

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 19, 2013
Messages
131
I feel like I read an article way back when saying that running a dedicated physx card that is older than your current main video card could make your system actually perform worse than without the physx card due to sync issues.

TBH I think the 780 should more than be able to handle physx on any game currently. As long as the rest of your system is good you shouldn't really have any issues. (also as long as the implementation in the game is actually decent)
 

Armenius

Fully [H]
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
22,925
I feel like I read an article way back when saying that running a dedicated physx card that is older than your current main video card could make your system actually perform worse than without the physx card due to sync issues.

TBH I think the 780 should more than be able to handle physx on any game currently. As long as the rest of your system is good you shouldn't really have any issues. (also as long as the implementation in the game is actually decent)
It may have been an issue with older drivers, but my experience has been that the PhysX card is basically turned off by the driver when not in use. The only performance hiccup I experienced has been in Arkham City's benchmark. During actual gameplay the game was smooth with higher average framerates while using High PhysX settings. Can't say that visual fidelity really benefits in Arkham City, but there was a significant improvement in Arkham Origins. While running with High PhysX on my 780, the PhysX accelerated particles would sometimes glitch and pass through objects. Dedicating another card to PhysX completely eliminated these issues.

My opinion is test it for yourself. It is probably worth it if you have an extra, older video card sitting around. Probably not worth it to spend the extra money on a new card just for PhysX, though. Going to be hilarious/sad when Maxwell comes out and using the GTX 780 for PhysX :cool:.
 
Top