What are the benefits of the Z77 over Z68 boards?

S

Safety

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
406
Hey [H],

I've read and re-read a bunch of Z77 preview articles and I'm having a hard time figuring out what new features they have over the Z68 boards. From what I can tell:

- Out of the box Ivy Bridge support
- Better phase design
- Native USB 3.0

And I'm not sure what else.

---

Also, to update a Z68 with UEFI to support an IB CPU would you need to first pop in a SB CPU to get it to boot? That might sound crazy but that's what I had to do 6 years ago with my old AMD Socket 940 systems to upgrade the BIOS when going from their single to dual core chips (dual Opteron 240 > dual Opteron 270).

Thanks!
-S
 
DooKey said:
PCI-E 3.0 support.
Click to expand...

That is my understanding also. Sandy Bridge motherboards have to have some type of special chips installed in order for them to even be able to address cards utilizing pci-e 3.0.
 
Thanks guys! I guess it's going to come down to pricing for most people as the real world benefits for most of these new features would be in the single digits percentage wise.

@Wixter: I'm fairly sure that PCI-E 3.0 is backwards compatible for all motherboards and parts (GPUs and PCI-E based SSDs for example).
 
wixter said:
That is my understanding also. Sandy Bridge motherboards have to have some type of special chips installed in order for them to even be able to address cards utilizing pci-e 3.0.
Click to expand...

No, I believe the special chip is there so that PCI-E 3.0 can be used with a Z68 MoBo only when an IB is installed. I don't think SB will support 3.0 with Z68. Not sure about SB supporting 3.0 in Z77.
 
DooKey said:
PCI-E 3.0 support.
Click to expand...

Plenty of Z68 boards support PCIe 3.0. You'd still need an Ivy chip in the Z68 board though. About the only significant difference, if you can call it that, is on-board USB 3.0. There aren't even any more SATA 6GB ports.
 
Forceman said:
There aren't even any more SATA 6GB ports.
Click to expand...

Which pisses me off. intel initially spec'd the Z79 as well as the Z77 with 6 or 8 SATA III ports iirc, but then cut them both back to 2. W T F Intel!!! Quick cutting corners and screwing your enthusiast customer base out of much desired and in-demand options! :mad::mad::mad:


Edit:
Sorry, meant X79, not Z79...
 
Last edited:
Besides USB 3.0 and SATA III, I thought that we would see Thunderbolt on this generation of motherboards. The absence of which means that native Thunderbolt support for non-apple PCs won't make their debut until 2013 at the earliest with socket 2011. Perhaps the cost/yield is still prohibitive but the delay only hurts adoption by peripheral manufacturers and users alike.
 
wixter said:
That is my understanding also. Sandy Bridge motherboards have to have some type of special chips installed in order for them to even be able to address cards utilizing pci-e 3.0.
Click to expand...

There are some Z68 boards that have the PCI-E 3.0 chips on them and they usually have that stated. Those boards still need Ivy Bridge and a compatible video card to use the extra bandwidth.

But not all Z68 boards have PCI-E 3.0 slots.
 
DejaWiz said:
No, I believe the special chip is there so that PCI-E 3.0 can be used with a Z68 MoBo only when an IB is installed. I don't think SB will support 3.0 with Z68. Not sure about SB supporting 3.0 in Z77.
Click to expand...

qbanb8582 said:
There are some Z68 boards that have the PCI-E 3.0 chips on them and they usually have that stated. Those boards still need Ivy Bridge and a compatible video card to use the extra bandwidth.

But not all Z68 boards have PCI-E 3.0 slots.
Click to expand...

Ok so let me make sure I've got this right and so everyone else is also clear...

Z68 board + SB cpu = No pci-e 3.0 support
Z68 board + IB cpu = pci-e 3.0 support
Z77 board = native pci-e 3.0 support
 
^ Bingo!

And to expand on that if I understand correctly:
Z77 + SB = no PCI-E 3.0
Z77 + IB = native PCI-E 3.0
 
wixter said:
Ok so let me make sure I've got this right and so everyone else is also clear...

Z68 board + SB cpu = No pci-e 3.0 support
Z68 board + IB cpu = pci-e 3.0 support
Z77 board = native pci-e 3.0 support
Click to expand...

The Z68 needs the PCI-E 3.0 chips on it plus IB. There are Z68 boards that are PCI-E 2.0 only meaning if you put IB in it. It will still only operate as PCI-E 2.0.

Here you have a board that is Z68 but isn't PCI-E 3.0
http://usa.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1155/P8Z68V_PRO/

Here you have the same board with PCI-E 3.0
http://usa.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1155/P8Z68V_PROGEN3/


As far as I know theres a hardware difference, and something that isn't enabled or disabled with a BIOS update.
 
Last edited:
Interesting read, on the possible Z77 + IB performance improvements, especially for gaming...
Something called VirtueMVP...:

Boosts responsiveness to the game at any frame rate
Improves gaming frame rates 30-70%
Increases Vsync frame rates – up to 120 FPS and beyond
Sharpens visual quality without tearing
Works seamlessly with hundreds of game stations
 
I dont think that you need any extra chips for PCI-E 3.0, the difference is just that the signaling traces in the board need to be rated for the higher frequency that PCI-E 3.0 runs at.
There is probably a flag in the bios to say whether or not a particular board is 'certified' (or whatever) for 3.0.
But yeah, no matter what you need a IB cpu also.
 
mzs_biteme said:
Interesting read, on the possible Z77 + IB performance improvements, especially for gaming...
Something called VirtueMVP...:

Boosts responsiveness to the game at any frame rate
Improves gaming frame rates 30-70%
Increases Vsync frame rates – up to 120 FPS and beyond
Sharpens visual quality without tearing
Works seamlessly with hundreds of game stations
Click to expand...

I don't think any of the Lucid stuff has been tested and shown to be an improvement in any way currently (tons of software issues, blahb lah blah)
 
mzs_biteme said:
Interesting read, on the possible Z77 + IB performance improvements, especially for gaming...
Something called VirtueMVP...:

Boosts responsiveness to the game at any frame rate
Improves gaming frame rates 30-70%
Increases Vsync frame rates – up to 120 FPS and beyond
Sharpens visual quality without tearing
Works seamlessly with hundreds of game stations
Click to expand...

Sounds like hopes and dreams to me. Also V-Sync rate is simply your refresh rate. There is no magic software trick to raise it!
 
extide said:
I dont think that you need any extra chips for PCI-E 3.0, the difference is just that the signaling traces in the board need to be rated for the higher frequency that PCI-E 3.0 runs at.
There is probably a flag in the bios to say whether or not a particular board is 'certified' (or whatever) for 3.0.
But yeah, no matter what you need a IB cpu also.
Click to expand...

You do need different hardware for boards that support x8x8 configurations. There is a switch that splits the lanes into two slots, and there are PCIe 2.0 switches and PCIe 3.0 switches. So if you have a board that has PCIe 2.0 switches, you won't get full PCIe 3.0 (you might be able to get x8 PCIe 3.0 on one slot, depending on the board).

If you have a board that doesn't have switches at all (it only supports x16x4) then you can do PCIe 3.0.

Here's a nice summary:
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/gigabyte-msi-pcie-3.0-gen3-third-gen,13485.html

All that being said however, it's very easy to find Gen 3 motherboards - I don't think Asus even makes the non-Gen 3 ones any longer, for example.
 
Forceman said:
You do need different hardware for boards that support x8x8 configurations. There is a switch that splits the lanes into two slots, and there are PCIe 2.0 switches and PCIe 3.0 switches. So if you have a board that has PCIe 2.0 switches, you won't get full PCIe 3.0 (you might be able to get x8 PCIe 3.0 on one slot, depending on the board).

If you have a board that doesn't have switches at all (it only supports x16x4) then you can do PCIe 3.0.

Here's a nice summary:
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/gigabyte-msi-pcie-3.0-gen3-third-gen,13485.html

All that being said however, it's very easy to find Gen 3 motherboards - I don't think Asus even makes the non-Gen 3 ones any longer, for example.
Click to expand...

Ah, yes, forgot about those switches, that makes sense.
 
I'm interested in the power delivery subsystem on Z77 and whether it will improve overclocking results with IB CPUs versus what we are seeing from IB ES samples in Z68 board with beta bios.
 
Last edited:
I'm building a new system and I'd like to know whether you think I should buy an ASUS p8z68-v pro/gen 3 mobo now, or wait for a z77 board.

Planned specs:
i7 2600k or 2700k (because of reported heat issues with the 3770k when overclocked)
2x GTX 580 1.5 gig

I plan to run one 1080p 120hz monitor off of this system (Samsung S27A750D) and hope to push close to 120 fps in most games. I'm wondering if there is any need to get a z77 board since from what I've read running both cards on pci-e 2.0 8x should be fine at only 1080p resolution. Also am I confused or will the new virtu MVP tech will work on a z68 mobo with a software update?

Even if I do plan to go with a z68 board would it be wise to buy one now, or wait a month for the z77 boards to come out so the price drops?
 
Vakharn said:
I'm building a new system and I'd like to know whether you think I should buy an ASUS p8z68-v pro/gen 3 mobo now, or wait for a z77 board.

Planned specs:
i7 2600k or 2700k (because of reported heat issues with the 3770k when overclocked)
2x GTX 580 1.5 gig

I plan to run one 1080p 120hz monitor off of this system (Samsung S27A750D) and hope to push close to 120 fps in most games. I'm wondering if there is any need to get a z77 board since from what I've read running both cards on pci-e 2.0 8x should be fine at only 1080p resolution. Also am I confused or will the new virtu MVP tech will work on a z68 mobo with a software update?

Even if I do plan to go with a z68 board would it be wise to buy one now, or wait a month for the z77 boards to come out so the price drops?
Click to expand...

What will you be doing with your system that you need the I7 HT'ing over the i5?

I wouldn't worry about heat issues as long as you use a good HSF.


Don't hold your breath on Z68 price drops, as we're going to see a transition to Z77 boards and not concurrent offerings of Z68 and Z77 since SB will work just fine in Panther Point.
 
Vakharn said:
Also am I confused or will the new virtu MVP tech will work on a z68 mobo with a software update?

Even if I do plan to go with a z68 board would it be wise to buy one now, or wait a month for the z77 boards to come out so the price drops?
Click to expand...

If you are ready to buy now, I would just buy now. With a Gen 3 board, you aren't really losing anything by going with z68 instead of Z77.

The VirtuMVP thing requires that you connect your monitor through the motherboard, not directly to the video cards, so I'm not even sure it would work with SLI or CrossFire.
 
Forceman said:
If you are ready to buy now, I would just buy now. With a Gen 3 board, you aren't really losing anything by going with z68 instead of Z77.

The VirtuMVP thing requires that you connect your monitor through the motherboard, not directly to the video cards, so I'm not even sure it would work with SLI or CrossFire.
Click to expand...

where did you get this from .?...

Well with the regular Virtu software it basically made it so if you don't need a lot of power it will just use the integrated GPU and it would help with power efficiency and keep the discrete on idle (would probably benefit AMD 7k series more w/ zero core) and you could also connect via motherboard port but the problem with that was the results were low performance and even in discrete mode performance would somewhat be lower. With the Virtu MVP the method is different, with Virtual Vsync, you can get it to run at high fps without tearing on a 60Hz monitor and with HyperPerformance (hybrid) you get added performance. I havent actually tested other games yet but will do that later.

But for those who want to test it out you can download it here:
http://drivers.softpedia.com/get/GR...-Virtu-Utility-21110a-for-Windows-7-x64.shtml

These results were from the DVI connected to the video card, not the motherboard.
Click to expand...

http://www.overclock.net/t/1226856/...tage-of-mvp-start-to-surface/50#post_16686643
 
Last edited:
coolhand411 said:
where did you get this from .?...



http://www.overclock.net/t/1226856/...tage-of-mvp-start-to-surface/50#post_16686643
Click to expand...

Interesting. I got the impression it required connection to the motherboard from reading their website and white paper, where all the diagrams show the connections being made through the motherboard. I'm curious how it is overriding or intercepting the GPU drivers in the case of only displaying through a discrete GPU. Based on that thread though, definitely some mixed performance.
 
DejaWiz said:
What will you be doing with your system that you need the I7 HT'ing over the i5?
Click to expand...

I do a lot of 1080 30p video encoding, and eventually plan to get a 1080 60p camera.

DejaWiz said:
I wouldn't worry about heat issues as long as you use a good HSF.
Click to expand...

I'll be using a Noctua nh-d14 as it seems to be the best air cooler on the market atm.

DejaWiz said:
Don't hold your breath on Z68 price drops, as we're going to see a transition to Z77 boards and not concurrent offerings of Z68 and Z77 since SB will work just fine in Panther Point.
Click to expand...

Hmm... good point. So you think the last of the z68 stock will just go away fairly fast once z77 boards show up without much time for them to drop much in price? I mainly posted this because the p8z68-v pro/gen3 is currently on sale for $195 on Amazon. Even if I buy it right now though it'll be at least a month before I have the money to pick up my HS and processor, which are the only other components I haven't grabbed yet.
 
If you have to wait a month anyway, then just wait for Z77 + IB and get it all in one shot.
 
DejaWiz said:
If you have to wait a month anyway, then just wait for Z77 + IB and get it all in one shot.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that seems like the obvious answer but if the pricing is going to be higher with no real increase in performance... *shrugs* I guess I'll wait and see. I just really wish I had an extra $200 to build my system right now :D
 
Vakharn said:
Yeah, that seems like the obvious answer but if the pricing is going to be higher with no real increase in performance... *shrugs* I guess I'll wait and see. I just really wish I had an extra $200 to build my system right now :D
Click to expand...

I feel your pain. I started a thread yesterday for the 2500K build that I want, but I have to wait until my tax return comes back. I just got an IRS status update that it's going to be delayed by at least another week, so it's looking like I'll have no choice but to go the Z77 + IB route.

In doing so, I'll likely have to cut some corners, but I'll make due. I'm getting a quad core LGA1155 one way or another, dammit! :D
 
I wonder what kind of fps increase i'd be seeing by switching to a z77 mobo with native pci-e 3.0 support. Right now i'm using a v-pro board and a 7970.
 
Theultimateeye said:
I wonder what kind of fps increase i'd be seeing by switching to a z77 mobo with native pci-e 3.0 support. Right now i'm using a v-pro board and a 7970.
Click to expand...

With a single card, no difference. XFire, then there will be a bit of an advantage with 3.0 bandwidth.
 
Will these boards allow dual x16 or single x16 and one x8 slot with a pair of pci-e 2.0 cards?
 
Vakharn said:
Will these boards allow dual x16 or single x16 and one x8 slot with a pair of pci-e 2.0 cards?
Click to expand...

If I am understanding it all correctly, then if the cards are PCI-E 2.0, then the 3.0 slots will operate in 2.0 mode. Meaning, either 8x + 8x or 8x + 4x depending on the boards capability.
 
Vakharn said:
Will these boards allow dual x16 or single x16 and one x8 slot with a pair of pci-e 2.0 cards?
Click to expand...

They will still be x8x8 for multi-card situations. The CPU only provides 16 PCIe lanes, so that's all you'll be able to access directly. With an Ivy CPU they'll be PCIe 3.0, so the same as PCIe 2.0 x16.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top