What are my NCase M1 cooling solutions?

Discussion in 'Small Form Factor Systems' started by Buttoneer, Apr 19, 2018.

  1. Buttoneer

    Buttoneer [H]Lite

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    As some of you will have read in the main Ncase thread I have put together my shiny new NCase but it's overheating massively.

    Basic details;
    Gigabyte Z370N-Wifi Mobo
    i7 8700K CPU delidded
    Dark Rock TF CPU Cooler
    Inno3D 1080 Ti iChill X3 GPU
    M2 drive and 2.5" hybrid drive but that's essentially it.

    There are no other fans or cooling solutions currently in the box.

    Temps without the panels on the case are great as you can imagine. The CPU under stress won't go over 60c which I personally consider to be an incredible result and the GPU is under 70c. The iChill X3 cooler is excellent.

    However with the panels on it's a hot box with the GPU not really able to get enough airflow from outside and instead recirculating the warm air inside.

    My solutions are;

    1. Fit 2 Noctua A12x15 slim fans under the GPU on the floor of the case to draw cool air in for the GPU to use, and a 92mm Noctua NF A9 PWM at the back of the case for exhaust. The size of the GPU prevents anything except slim fans being placed underneath so I may not achieve maximum benefit and the hot air will circulate within the case still affecting the CPU temps slightly. This solution is a £50 investment so it's cheap but I suspect not optimal.
    2. Replace the GPU cooler with an Arctic Cooling Accelero Extreme III heatsink and use the two 120mm noiseblockers I already have as intakes below that instead of the fitted fans. I'll also need the A9 as exhaust and it's still creating a slight hotbox This solution will cost up to £100 (though the price seems to be variable) but other builders seem to have had great results with the Accelero. It's not clear whether the Extreme IV is compatible because of the large bracket and rear heatsink. Downside of the Extreme III is you have to glue heatsinks on the memory which makes it hard to refit the stock cooler if I need to.
    3. Replace the GPU cooler with a Kraken G12 and slim 240 AIO radiator in the bottom of the case. I've linked to the Kraken X52 but any of the round plate coolers will do if the radiator fits. I can't mount the radiator on the side because the Dark Tower TF takes up all of that space. 240 might be a lot but it should allow me to keep the GPU overclock. This will be a £150 solution (give or take) and with air coming in it still creates heat for the CPU cooler
    4. A double AIO solution. I can have a 240 radiator on the side for the CPU and a 240/Kraken G12 combo on the bottom. For both, cool air is drawn in from outside so these components will stay nice and cool. AIO's are not robust and lose liquid over time but perhaps I'm over worried about these factors and actually ought to give it a try? This is a £240 solution and still leaves me with lots of warm air in the box for cooling the ram and SSD's so an A9 perhaps still required except overall I suspect the warm air will be cooler. The system will be under positive pressure which I like as it keeps the case free of dust assuming filters are used.
    5. A semi-custom loop using Alphacool Eisbaer and Eiswolf blocks. In theory I could have a 240 and 120 or two 240's though not entirely sure about the fit. This is a £300 solution but likely to offer the best results so far and allow relatively easy upgrades and is top-upable. Again we still have warm air inside the box for the ram and SSD's and there's the positive pressure benefit. EKWV does a nice MLC range which looks like it might be an even better solution but the rads are way too big, sadly.
    6. The semi custom loop which is really custom. EKWB's A240G looks like hard work even though it's sold as a handy kit. It comes with a reservoir and pump which I'm going to have trouble finding a location for, only has one 240 radiator, but is a £250 solution. I can presumably just add a further radiator if needed but still, where does that reservoir sit?
    7. Full custom loop. Can't do this. Too much hassle, no dremmel skills, no workshop, no patience to sit down and work out every single item I need and properly research the right pump/reservoir/radiator/fittings and then assemble it all. I've done it before in a relatively massive Silverstone HTPC case so it's not like I can't do this stuff if I put my mind to it, but the costs, difficulty and downtime are not to me worthwhile anymore.
    Thanks for reading. Does anyone have any thoughts, ideas, experience or other suggestions? Is there some really obvious easy stuff I could be looking at but have missed? Am I likely to be just as happy with the low cost slim fan solution as a full custom because it's really only a few degrees different?
     
  2. rfarmer

    rfarmer [H]ard|Gawd

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    I would go with the Accelero Extreme III with 2X120mm fans mounted at the bottom as exhaust. I have seen this setup in several Ncases and the results are very good. This eliminates the GPU recirculating warm air and exhausts the air out the bottom so it isn't fed up to the CPU.
     
  3. Buttoneer

    Buttoneer [H]Lite

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    Thanks rfarmer, helpful as always. The issue I have with this option (exhaust fans) is dust ingress through every other orifice on the case. If it works it works, and it's a cheaper option than the others, so I would do it if the consensus is that I should, but it's not an ideal solution in my mind for that reason. And that glue...

    I missed one further option off the list which is the aftermarket EVGA hybrid cooler. The Inno3D is based on a FE PCB so the EVGA should fit the card so I then need to be concerned about whether the radiator will fit under the cooler. I'm thinking probably not, and this would only work with the twin AIO 120's that I have seen in pictures elsewhere.
     
  4. rfarmer

    rfarmer [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yeah I totally know what you mean about dust, my Ncase has always been positive pressure. The EVGA I think would be a good move for you, only 121mm wide so I think you should be able to mount it next to the Dark Rock on the fan bracket. That way you could maintain positive pressure.
     
  5. Revenant_Knight

    Revenant_Knight Limp Gawd

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    Let me ask you this: is your CPU or GPU throttling?

    If they’re actually running at a spec that makes you happy, then don’t go crazy. The metal of the case getting hot is totally normal. My M1, A4-SFX, and MI-6 all get hot, but the components inside are fine.

    I have experimented with the M1 by adding a bottom intake fan. It made the case cooler, but only got me about 50mhz more on my 980TI boost clock. I have a C1 cooler for the 6700k (4.6 all cores at 1.3). I added a 120mm air intake fan above it. I would add a second if not for needing the hard drive space.
     
  6. Buttoneer

    Buttoneer [H]Lite

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    The whole thing boils up and alarms go off at 87c on the GPU and I've not even got close to an overclock. This is just playing AC Origins on 1440 Ultra.
     
  7. Revenant_Knight

    Revenant_Knight Limp Gawd

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    1440P Ultra on a 1080ti is basically a HFR gaming situation. Are you running a GSYNC or high refresh monitor? If you have a 60hz monitor then turn on vsync and it will help in the very short term.

    It does sound like you need a pair of intake fans on the bottom, and if it fits, a 92mm exhaust fan at the rear.

    If that doesn’t help, then you’ll probably need to use a different GPU cooler.

    Also keep in mind that NVIDIA designed the chips to run at 83C while gaming. My 980ti with stock cooler regularly runs at 83C all day long for nearly 3 years now. No issues.
     
  8. Buttoneer

    Buttoneer [H]Lite

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    Not so sure about the EVGA now - The Dark Rock is massive and is mounted with the heatpipes running horizontally so although I may be able to fit a fan alongside the Be Quiet! one, the radiator is, I suspect, not going to fit. If I went EVGA I'd need to sit a second AIO alongside. I have a Coolermaster Seidon 120 that I can cannibalise from my ML07 build, possibly, but it's three years old now and possibly not state of the art - noisy for sure.
    Yes, running a G-Sync monitor. My interim solution is just to take the side panel off for the moment, Still get fairly high temps but not enough to alarm.

    Again the CPU cooler is uuuuuuuge so will need to have a check and see whether a 92mm will fit on the back.

    If I go with the Acelero option, can I just buy a splitter to control the bottom fans from the GPU or do I also need to get the Gelid? My assumption is that the VGA header is a different type to the mobo and that I need both just because it's been mentioned a lot of times in relation to the Raijintek Morpheus and the Arctic Accelero.

    That big NCase thread is a difficult one to research because so many people chop and change so mentions of certain bits of kit are not always helpful and there's 10 pages of 'Accelero' results!
     
  9. rfarmer

    rfarmer [H]ard|Gawd

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    [​IMG]

    This is the pcb from the Inno3d and it does have the 4 pin header that the Gelid fits.
     
  10. Buttoneer

    Buttoneer [H]Lite

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    Ok, so the connector on the VGA is of a different type to normal fans so I need to buy the gelid and a splitter, cool. Going to need some serious cable management with all those.

    People have had so much success with the Accelero it's hard not to be tempted. I think the whole thing will fit better than the stock Inno3d too and perhaps I can play with the intake/exhaust settings and see whether I can live with the higher temps I get with positive pressure but no dust.
     
  11. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    get some airflow in there and that might solve it.
     
  12. Buttoneer

    Buttoneer [H]Lite

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    Looking at some reviews of the Inno3d and I'm wondering whether I might just be able to get away with removing the fan unit and reelying on better, bigger case fans. Essentially use the heatsink part of the iChill cooler as an accelero-lite.

    I won't void my warranty removing the cover as it comes with a tool for that for cleaning purposes. Removing the shroud will reduce the card to a 2-slot so I can fit my 25mm noiseblockers underneath. Worth a try? Just need the cable adaptors I think and I'll be able to give it a go.
     
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  13. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    but still get some airflow going.
     
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  14. Buttoneer

    Buttoneer [H]Lite

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    Well, yes, I've got the side off the case and the temps are still maxing out and alarms going. Just need to start pulling air out.
     
  15. rfarmer

    rfarmer [H]ard|Gawd

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    It's worth a try.
     
  16. Buttoneer

    Buttoneer [H]Lite

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    Cables ordered.

    I've discovered that the reason the alarms go off is because the motherboard has one built in which goes off when the CPU fan fails. The fan isn't failing, I can see it going, but the alarm still goes off, so not at all sure what the problem is. I have switched off the alarm in BIOS and was gaming successfully (still with sides off the case) all yesterday evening. Temps still much too high, so I do need to sort the exhaust but that's all a bit bothersome.
     
  17. Wizard7th

    Wizard7th n00b

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    Hi, can I ask you a question? I'm building a small pc and was wondering if any problem with Be quiet Dark Rock TF + Gigabyte Z370N Wifi Mini-itx motherboard. Do the heat pipes touch the RAM?
    Thank you in advance for your help.
     
  18. sonsonate

    sonsonate Guest

    I think yeah, you should try removing the fans from the GPU and setup some 120s underneath. It would probably be your easiest and cheapest solution. I had better results with my fans set to exhaust, but at the time I was using a Raijintek Morpheus 2 and Noctua slim 120mm fans. My Ncase went to my kid and she's got a 1070 that's fine without any extra fan help. Try the fans as intake and exhaust and see what gives you better results.


    If you replace the heatsink with the Arctic Accelero, go with the Accelero 3 model and try to mix the thermal adhesive with regular thermal paste to dilute the adhesive a bit. Might make it easier for you to get the heatsinks off.

    If you're looking at using an AIO, I'd recommend using the EVGA heatsink. Be sure your GPU is in fact an FE-based model. The G12 looks improved compared to the G10 that would definitely break your GPU die (done it twice by overtightening), but the EVGA Hybrid makes your card nice and solid and you can plug everything into the GPU and you won't need to buy any separate bits, like the AIO, the fan adapters, extra heatsinks, etc.

    Like you, I had the Dark Rock TF and it couldn't fit alongside the AIO. I had a Corsair 120mm AIO laying around and stuck it on the CPU and it wasn't too much of a problem getting it all mounted. Definitely not as neat as having air coolers on both with their own fans and all, but do-able.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2018
  19. Buttoneer

    Buttoneer [H]Lite

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    Hi Wizard 7th yes they do - I had to remove the heatsink from the closest stick in order to accommodate the pipes - there's a lot of compromise with this setup.

    Thanks for the tips - I have finally got around to buying the cables I need to remove the fan unit from the GPU so should be able to have a play this next weekend. It's bee a busy time for me so didn't much fancy pulling the whole thing apart for a couple of days but now I have my PWM adaptor and splitter so ready to roll.
     
  20. workshop35

    workshop35 Gawd

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    Can you fit a g12 and 240 in the bottom of the ncase? I was doing some quick measurements of my g12 in an atx case and it looks pretty tight
     
  21. rfarmer

    rfarmer [H]ard|Gawd

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    You can only fit a 240mm radiator at the bottom if you are using a GPU with waterblock that is single slot. With a dual slot GPU you only have 25mm.
     
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  22. workshop35

    workshop35 Gawd

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    So you're pretty much limited to using two 120mm aio's then on the side panel i guess, one for your cpu and one for a g12 if you go that route. I've never wster cooled a gpu in my ncase, might try it if i can get the g12 to work.

    I guess you could use the 92mm asetek for the rear panel too...