What am I doing wrong when printing?

obviouslytom

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I have the Ender-3 V2 printer and as far as I can tell I have a level bed, however when I get about 20 minutes into a print, if I am lucky to get that far, whatever I am printing will no longer stick to the bed and start to move. I am using the inland PLA filament and the box tells me to have a print temp between 215 and 230 C and I have set it in the middle around 222. The system defaults to having the bed at 50 C and I have tried different temps between 50 to 60 C. I am getting frustrated enough that I want to chuck the unit but my wife would kill me if I did and I have hardly printed anything because I cant get anything to stick.

Thoughts?

I am trying the glue stick trick but I doubt that will even work.
 

obviouslytom

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I have a BL touch but never got it to work properly at all and when I set it up according to the directions, the tip was bent.
 

Dreamerbydesign

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Just use some purple glue stick or a very light coat of aquanet super hold hair spray. Let it dry and start your print. If your bed is level this will work for sure. I’ve done it with thousands of prints.

An ABL isn’t going to fix the print not sticking. It does help if you have a 90% level bed. But it’s not going to work miracles.

And that’s good PLA. It is the same as eSun. Same manufacturer. I print around 55 on the bed and 215 with the PLA+ that I use.
 

She loved E

Limp Gawd
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Maybe try different adhesion settings in your slicer, like a brim or skirt. And/or try a print with a big flat area at the bottom to see if you can knock out a print.

How's the print quality otherwise? Does it look like other layers are joining well? Is the print under or over extruded?
 

sed8em

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Just use some purple glue stick or a very light coat of aquanet super hold hair spray. Let it dry and start your print. If your bed is level this will work for sure. I’ve done it with thousands of prints.

An ABL isn’t going to fix the print not sticking. It does help if you have a 90% level bed. But it’s not going to work miracles.

And that’s good PLA. It is the same as eSun. Same manufacturer. I print around 55 on the bed and 215 with the PLA+ that I use.
I like the hairspray approach. It is just the lightest dusting of hair spray is all it takes. Quick, thin layer, don't coat it. I also use hair spray as a release agent for PETG since that stuff bonds so well to most build plates. The only except is the prusa textured plate, that thing is absolute magic.

Also, everyone says this, but ensure that the bed is perfectly level on all 4 corners? Marlin has a mesh bed leveling approach that might help here, can't remember the specifics. Klipper has a nice feature that you input the location of the 4 screws, the metric size of your bed level screws, and it tells you specifically how far to turn each knob to get the bed mechanically level, then the BLTouch works out any further errors to a perfect map in the software.
 

obviouslytom

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Here is a print I am trying. Look at the corners coming off. This happens a lot as well.

20211219_174855.jpg



I have the nozzle set to 200 and the bed to 60 and it still does this. If I touch it, I know it will pop right off.
 

She loved E

Limp Gawd
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Did you try gluestick? It looks like its lifting all around so as someone else mentioned you might need to use gluestick or hairspray to help with adhesion. If the nozzle isn't moving enough filament that could also be an issue but it's hard to tell if that's what's happening from the photo.
 

modi123

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Inland White PLA 1.75MM. I got it from my local Microcenter
Hmm.. that does seem to run a bit hot for PLA, but so it goes.

I've had my Ender3Pro for 2+ years and haven't had to resort to glue, sprays, or auto bed leveling. Here's what works for me.

1. As folk said, bed cleaning. Isopropyl alcohol in the 90% range works well, or warm water with a small drop of dish soap.
2. My go to leveling test is this guy:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:34558
You may need to set the 'initial layer height' to .1mm in the 'quality' section, but I find that gives me the best indicator of my plate to make minor up/down adjustments.
Your photos show a bit stringy ring so work on the leveling and getting everything close.
3. I tend to use Hatchbox PLA so I run at 205 and a build plate of 65. It may do you well to print off a temperature tower from thingiverse or use the one in the 'calibration shapes' plugin in Cura's marketplace.
4. Make sure the gantry isn't sagging to one side. Adjust with eccentric nuts.
5. Make sure the vertical arms are square and sturdy. This may require you to unbolt the top bar and check the distance at the top when the gantry is at the bottom, and at the bottom when the gantry is at top. The fix being to unscrew the vertical support arms and re-tighten them.


As for the corners look around for weird environmental issues. Is it near a window, vents with cross breezes, a coldish room, etc. Those may point to needing an enclosure of some sort. Do they lift when you use a brim? In the cooling section of cura do you have initial fan speed set to 0 or something else?
 

notarat

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I have the Ender-3 V2 printer and as far as I can tell I have a level bed, however when I get about 20 minutes into a print, if I am lucky to get that far, whatever I am printing will no longer stick to the bed and start to move. I am using the inland PLA filament and the box tells me to have a print temp between 215 and 230 C and I have set it in the middle around 222. The system defaults to having the bed at 50 C and I have tried different temps between 50 to 60 C. I am getting frustrated enough that I want to chuck the unit but my wife would kill me if I did and I have hardly printed anything because I cant get anything to stick.

Thoughts?

I am trying the glue stick trick but I doubt that will even work.

If 100 people reply you'll get 100 different (slightly) answers.

90% of a successful print is due to preparation. Ensuring your bed is "truly" leveled and trammed is that 90%.

You may have leveled your bed properly but if the bed or the carriage it's attached to is out of whack you'll still get bad results. See the before and after pic below to see how out of whack a bed can be from the factory

PXL_20211218_112838710.jpg


After fixing the leveling, printing is far easier on this printer.


Personal Observations:

I have tried inland and did not like it so I use overture brand in the middle of its heat range. I use 60°C - 65°C for bed temps. I use a draft shield to prevent the part being printed from cooling too fast. I block the HVAC vent a magnetic cover to stop drafts. I CLEAN the bed with 91% rubbing alcohol. Ensure your bed is "truly" level and the print head is properly trammed. You can use a glue stick or hairspray, but, if you've done the above, you can print straight to glass with no glue or hairspray or and bed "treatment".

Above all, be patient with the tweaking...it's not an appliance yet. If you do get it lined out properly you can print large items without worry...like this pair of 418mm Radiator Shrouds printed on a CR6 Max (400mm*400mm*405mm build volume)
PXL_20211220_014748952.jpg
 

obviouslytom

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Since it's a glass bed that is nearly a 1/4" thick, could it be that the bed is not warm enough? I was reading that running it at 65°C for the bed helps with warping. I changed it so that it prints a larger initial layer and will see how that prints tomorrow
 

IndyColtsFan

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A lot of tips in this thread, but I personally don’t think your bed is level. You don’t have enough squish in your skirt lines and that’s indicative of too great a gap between nozzle and bed. How are you leveling your bed (sorry if you mentioned it)? Also, don’t be afraid to use a brim or raft.

I have never used glue stick or hairspray and never will, as those mask the true problem(s). In general, when I couldn’t get adhesion, 90% of the time it was a bed leveling issue, 5% of the time the glass bed’s surface was degraded to the point where it wouldn’t hold anything even after repeat cleanings, and 5% random things. I ditched the glass bed on my Ender 3 Pro for PEI and am much happier and will do the same for my CR6SE as well.
 

notarat

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Since it's a glass bed that is nearly a 1/4" thick, could it be that the bed is not warm enough? I was reading that running it at 65°C for the bed helps with warping. I changed it so that it prints a larger initial layer and will see how that prints tomorrow

Keep in mind if the heating element is in the center of the bed that as you get more towards the edge the temperatures are cooler than the center. I removed my heated bed specifically to add 2-3 layers of 1/8th inch insulation to retain as much heat at the corners as possible. This helps greatly with adhesion. Temps on my bed (at the center) were ~15°C warmer before I added insulation. After, the temps only vary by about 4°C-5°C

If you have the capability to remove the bed to insulate it I highly recommend you do so.
 

Dreamerbydesign

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As you can see OP you will get a large variance of experiences and ideas. I personally still use a light coat of hair spray every 3-4 prints, but I also print a few hundred multi layer prints a month and losing a print means losing money and setting back a customer order. I do not use a skirt but I always print a brim so I can monitor the passes before the actual print starts. I probably could do without the hair spray, as I have bed leveling precisely down as confirmed by my ABL and custom firmware. I still do it because it’s quick and basically insurance. Especially on large prints or a print tat involves many many small parts. You’ll find many suggestions and no doubt one will work. I’d just start by learning to level the bed properly. I use the CHEP square and made sure it adheres properly before I start prints. I re level each printer every 10 or so prints, but I could probably go longer.
 

NattyKathy

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Good info here.

I'm also a 3D Printing noob and happen to have exact setup as OP (Ender 3 V2, Inland PLA in white and black)
Still in my first week of actually printing but I've managed to get decent results pretty quick doing the following-

I put my printer in one of these enclosures to keep drafts out and create a nice toasty environment
raise nozzle temp- I'm getting good results at ~215. I've read elsewhere too that the Inland tends to need a bit higher temps than some.
use high bed temp- been using 69* (nice) which is way on the high end from what I understand so that might have to go down for larger prints to prevent squishing but it helps w adhesion a lot
as said, scrub bed w/ isopropanol.
thoroughly preheat everything before leveling and before printing; make sure the bed is heated allll the way through

practice leveling, a lot. I got the printer a month ago & spent a week building it and reading tips, and two full weeks of more reading and practicing leveling before I even loaded filament
everyone has their own leveling method. I've been using post-it-notes, holding the sticky end and pulling the paper back and forth between the bed and nozzle while slowly spinning the knob until the paper just starts dragging but isn't pinched- I like using the post-it because it's tactile and easy to match each leveling point by feel.

I've also been using rafts more often than not but that doesn't look applicable to the parts that OP showed that already have a flat base

I'm pleasantly surprised so far how rapidly I've been able to get decent results with this setup, so don't lose heart OP!

For me Print Day 1 was 100% spaghetti, Day 2 got some ok but warped prints, Day 3 started getting good results, and 4th Try was today and I was confident enough to print a 120-140mm fan adapter for my PC and after a 5hr print it turned out good!
 
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Darunion

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You for sure need more squish, i can see space between your skirt lines. Fixing that is a huge majority of your issue. Oils (even a fingerprint you cant see) and dust on the build plate is like spraying a pan with non-stick spray.

And go slow, there are no awards for a fast first layer, take it slow and make sure the cooling fan is off for the first few layers.

Honestly i don't mess with glue or tape or any thing like that unless i need release. That glass bed tends to have a lot of adhesion but only at temp 50C+. But I would suggest trying any of the ideas you see here, all of them are good.

But only change one thing at a time.

Most of this stuff there is no concrete right answer. When someone finds something that works they stay with it.

fyi, grab yourself one of those laser ir thermometers, great for checking bed temp versus set temp.
 

notarat

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You for sure need more squish, i can see space between your skirt lines. Fixing that is a huge majority of your issue. Oils (even a fingerprint you cant see) and dust on the build plate is like spraying a pan with non-stick spray.

And go slow, there are no awards for a fast first layer, take it slow and make sure the cooling fan is off for the first few layers.

Honestly i don't mess with glue or tape or any thing like that unless i need release. That glass bed tends to have a lot of adhesion but only at temp 50C+. But I would suggest trying any of the ideas you see here, all of them are good.

But only change one thing at a time.

Most of this stuff there is no concrete right answer. When someone finds something that works they stay with it.

fyi, grab yourself one of those laser ir thermometers, great for checking bed temp versus set temp.
^ This. (the bolded part) is great advice. That's how I was able to determine that my bed temps were deviating so much at the edge. Once I dentified and resolved that issue, large-sized prints are far more easy to print.
 

Nobu

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Keep in mind that glass is an insulator. It can take a while for a 1/4" thick slab to even out in temperature, especially if it has air blowing across it. Insulating behind the heater and blocking direct airflow across the bed is probably a good idea.
 

Kardonxt

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Since it's a glass bed that is nearly a 1/4" thick, could it be that the bed is not warm enough? I was reading that running it at 65°C for the bed helps with warping. I changed it so that it prints a larger initial layer and will see how that prints tomorrow
I just ordered the creality glass bed for my V1 and some of the common complaints I saw on the reviews mention exactly this. They recommend pre heating the bed and letting it sit at temp for a few minutes before starting the actual print.

Another common complaint was that the special coating they use just stops sticking after 10-20 prints (despite cleaning) in which case it sounds like reverting back to aquanet resolves the issue.

I have never had any trouble with the magnetic bed but mine came warped and has some issues with larger prints. I'll post back if I learn anything else during hands on use.
 

notarat

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I just ordered the creality glass bed for my V1 and some of the common complaints I saw on the reviews mention exactly this. They recommend pre heating the bed and letting it sit at temp for a few minutes before starting the actual print.

Another common complaint was that the special coating they use just stops sticking after 10-20 prints (despite cleaning) in which case it sounds like reverting back to aquanet resolves the issue.

I have never had any trouble with the magnetic bed but mine came warped and has some issues with larger prints. I'll post back if I learn anything else during hands on use.
From my personal experience the coating is wonderful even after 50+ prints. The downside (for me) is that the bed is nowhere close to being level... :(
 

Kardonxt

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From my personal experience the coating is wonderful even after 50+ prints. The downside (for me) is that the bed is nowhere close to being level... :(
Just to be clear, are you referring to the glass bed or the magnetic one?
 

obviouslytom

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Got with someone who does a lot of printing and we changed a bunch of settings. We made the bed run hotter at 65°C, nozzle at 220°C, initial layer at 0.28. he also said to use a raft. I had to take the kids to karate but this was the print shortly before I left.

20211220_173703.jpg


I will see what it is like when I get home
 

She loved E

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Nicely done! Also curious what you think made it work. Was the bed level or did it need to be tuned?
 

obviouslytom

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obviouslytom - which settings did you change, and to what?
I took a series of screen shots of all the settings. I will put them all up in the morning. The biggest one was changing the base to brim (I think) and having the initial layer at 0.28 and having it go slow, plate temp of 65° C and 220° C for the extruder.
 

obviouslytom

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Nicely done! Also curious what you think made it work. Was the bed level or did it need to be tuned?
From the help I got, mainly needed to be tuned. Since then, I have done some very minor leveling to the bed although I still get a little bit of spacing on the initial layer as you can see here when you zoom on and look at the left side compared to the middle. It's not affecting the print, but just annoying.

20211225_225006.jpg
 

Darunion

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I would try moving it just a one quarter smidgen closer to the bed. And maybe try 3% decrease in flow rate.
 
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