Easy fix is to put in a 300 second time for the software to continue looping. Voila... heat generated!
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
What air cooler to get for 3950x? I don't want water cooling.
I am in the same boat as I am effectively air cooling my TR 1950x with the Thermalright Silver Arrow TR4. I'm thinking about upgrading to the 3950x or TR 3960x. Air cooling gives me peace of mind and once installed with a good TIM application, I forget about it. I've heard that a custom water loop is a headache, needing to replace the liquid periodically and I've heard a lot of stories about leaks at some point. Apparently a custom loop gives superior cpu cooling but with costs. I have the Phanteks Enthoo Pro case with several Noctua NF-A14 Chromax 140mm fans running. Air flow is excellent with this case but loud as hell with the fans running at 2800 rpm.
kamikazi
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2006
- Messages
- 1,597
I felt the same way as you about air cooling vs. water cooling. I actually water cooled about 10 years ago and got rid of my kit after 6 months when the original pump started making weird noises. I got it replaced under warranty and then sold it all off. However, I recently dropped a boatload of cash and am in the process of finishing construction of my loop. The [H] way. Good luck with your decision. You can enter the custom loop arena somewhat affordably with one of those EK kits. EK Classic RGB Kits
If I was going to go the custom cooling route I would absolutely do it the [H] way and spend the money on a good kit but the issue for me is the headache/reliability issue and leaking. I think the air coolers need to be improved for the new processors that have higher TDPs.
If you build it correctly, custom loops are very reliable.
I have a Phanteks Enthoo Pro case and wondering if I can easily build and fit a custom loop in here. I only need to cool the cpu and not a gpu. I am gun shy about this because I want to do it right and not sure where to turn for a step by step. I take it you are very experienced with building and running these?
Sweet build!! After an initial install of this, how long has your loops run reliably without leaks or failed pumps and what kind of maintenance is involved in one of these?
I've rarely ever had leaks and all of the ones I had, were on the test bench due to simply not paying attention and checking my fittings every once in awhile. The loops in my own systems have run for months on end without issue but that's as long as I've ever gone without having to drain the loop and change hardware out. I change my hardware out much more often than most people. I'm not the kind of guy to leave a loop untouched for years on end with or without maintenance. My loops get drained, blocks get replaced etc. all the time because I'm always changing things. I built my current loop back in April and since then, I've added a GPU block and then switched motherboards, CPU's, and waterblocks out.
The only leaks I've seen outside of the test bench were during initial leak testing during the build. Even then, I've only run into one or two leaks in all the time I've been building systems. If you take your time, and ensure everything fits properly, you shouldn't have leaks unless something's defective. On that note, I've run into a couple of defective fittings here and there, but its extremely rare.
primetime
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2005
- Messages
- 7,337
were you not eh least bit tempted to use soft tube to the cpu and gpu blocks for maintenance issues? I love what you have but wonder if mixing it up makes sense some times? edit...Never mind i just read you post above lol
I had thought about using soft tubing for things like going to the pump where you can't see it but opted not to. I never considered soft tubing between the CPU and GPU or anything like that. Maintenance isn't as hard as you'd imagine.
primetime
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2005
- Messages
- 7,337
no i guess if your used to draining it out and refilling it then its a mute point. I guess its not really such a bad thing swapping out the coolant every so often anyway?
I need to think about this. If I don't change motherboards or processors, how often should the loop be drained and the hardware changed and why? What hardware do people switch out, waterblocks, fittings? The other thing I'm wondering is if there is a leak, what happens to the components (motherboard, memory, etc?). Leaking coolant has to cause some kind of damage to the components. Also, it seems like constant careful inspection of one of these setups is necessary.
I’ve run the same loop in the same case since 2012 with my “spare WC parts” in my media center pc. Loop consists of a black ice extreme 120 radiator (purchased in 2002), a black ice 120x2 pro radiator (purchased on sale around 2004) a d5 pump, a swift tech apogee block, and a swiftech bay Rez.
the system started out with a AMD A10-5800k, and got upgraded to A10-7850K in 2015. I’ve cleaned the block once (during the system upgrade), and I blow out the dust and top off the water every year. I could likely do the cleaning every other year but I know I would forget which year I last cleaned it.
no leaks and no pump problems for the duration of the build.
edit to say, since Day one, the PC has been tucked to the side of the TV and I only look it over annually when I blowout the dust / dog hair from my golden retriever.
The last time I had a leak is when my home made res started to leak on my old athlon TBird. Don’t even know how long it was leaking, just noticed when the pump made noise sucking air. MB was wet (an old ASUS nforce mb) but never had a problem.
I have one of the EK custom cooling kits, 360mm radiator and never was super impressed with it. It gets the job done with enough margin on temperature. As for the newer air coolers, I think they are better than most AIO coolers. I had a couple leaks, no damage, leaky fitting on the CPU block. Cooling degrading over time, my fault for just using distilled water so I had to clean the loop etc. and use a biocide. As for reliability, pretty good, no pump failures.
When I bought the kit, my case would not support it, so I made an external case with radiator and pump but it became a pita to move the case to then work on it, change things out etc. Bought new case and everything fits inside, case is smaller yet more roomy. So if one goes custom loop I recommend a good supporting case to go along with it. As for soft or hard tube, I just never saw the benefit, other than cool factor (meaningless for me) on using hard tubing. Soft tubing is pretty easy to install, cut, modify etc. I am sure those experienced with hard tubing it would be easy too.
Whenever I get around to building a Threadripper system, I am not sure if I would do custom loop or air cooler.
When I bought the kit, my case would not support it, so I made an external case with radiator and pump but it became a pita to move the case to then work on it, change things out etc. Bought new case and everything fits inside, case is smaller yet more roomy. So if one goes custom loop I recommend a good supporting case to go along with it. As for soft or hard tube, I just never saw the benefit, other than cool factor (meaningless for me) on using hard tubing. Soft tubing is pretty easy to install, cut, modify etc. I am sure those experienced with hard tubing it would be easy too.
Whenever I get around to building a Threadripper system, I am not sure if I would do custom loop or air cooler.
This is encouraging but I am pretty confident that I can effectively cool both the 3950X or TR 3960X with air cooling at stock speeds even stress tested P95. I'm not sure the real advantage of overclocking these processors, meaning performance margin gained vs. extra heat. If I decide to go custom cooling loop I will do it very carefully and reach out to experts on this forum for help as it seems like there are a lot of very experienced gurus who have been building and running custom cooling rigs for years. One thing I am trying to wrap my hands around is the max. safe temp to run these AMD processors at for hours and days on end without damaging the CPU.
Since there is a discussion regarding cases, water cooling, etc in this thread I’ve got my own question.
when I pulled apart the ivy bridge rig in my sig awhile back during a move, I switched it from water to air, (which is probably part of what killed it). after pulling apart that loop, I have 2 old thermo chill 120.3 rads sitting in the parts bin waiting to be reused. Are there any cares the thermochill 120.3 rads will fit gracefully in? I recall the fan spacing on them was slightly wider than most other rads, making them harder to fit in a case. Honestly, though, it’s been so long I don’t rememberfor certain.
the new system will either be a top end Ryzen 4000 or a new threadripper - if I can spread the purchases over a longer duration I’ll be able to spend more on mb, proc, etc. given that, I would like to buy the new case, power supply, new pump, etc over the next 3 months so I can be ready to just jump on MB and Proc when it lands.
when I pulled apart the ivy bridge rig in my sig awhile back during a move, I switched it from water to air, (which is probably part of what killed it). after pulling apart that loop, I have 2 old thermo chill 120.3 rads sitting in the parts bin waiting to be reused. Are there any cares the thermochill 120.3 rads will fit gracefully in? I recall the fan spacing on them was slightly wider than most other rads, making them harder to fit in a case. Honestly, though, it’s been so long I don’t rememberfor certain.
the new system will either be a top end Ryzen 4000 or a new threadripper - if I can spread the purchases over a longer duration I’ll be able to spend more on mb, proc, etc. given that, I would like to buy the new case, power supply, new pump, etc over the next 3 months so I can be ready to just jump on MB and Proc when it lands.
I couldn't find any data regarding TDP. I'm wondering if this is going to out perform the Thermalright Silver Arrow rated at 320 TDP. Have you seen this? http://thermalright.com/product/silver-arrow-ib-e-extreme/
primetime
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2005
- Messages
- 7,337
dam good question as that is the first new tech type cooler we have soon in ages...hopefully the FPS guys get one to play with soon
https://www.icegiantcooling.com/So far the data we have to compare TDP capability is this from kitguru ProSiphon 3990X Performance
Now that is an engineering model and is still made of alluminium/alluminum, The first batch will be thinner and to compensate and provide similar to same heat dissipation the company has decided to add a third condensing row in the fin array.
Good things to come, I have been waiting since de8auer showed off his prototype phase change cooler at CES for something like this and now we have a unit that will reach production and shipping much sooner than we thought. It will be interesting to see how the smaller IHS impacts the cooling performance when we look at chips like the i9 9900k and 3900x.
To add to this the prospect of only ever replacing fans for a cooler is the biggest boon for me as I have had so many AIO pumps and custom loop pumps fail on me and that leads to down time or even hardware failures.
Last edited:
cold_steel
Gawd
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2004
- Messages
- 576
I used to be an air guy, but once I tried a nice AIO Corsair cooler (I have machines running both the Corsair H115i Pro and H115i Platinum) and found how easy they are to install and how much space you gain back to work around the motherboard without a giant air cooler in the way- I’ll never look back. I had the original H115i I had cooling an Intel i7 2600k build I recently replaced, and the pump was still just fine after at least 4 years of use. Sold it on with the rest of the hardware and picked up a new H115i pro to ensure the pump was refreshed.
I’m glad to have given AIOs a chance. Don’t expect insane cooling capability, but in my experience they are honestly just easier to deal with than the massive air coolers.
I’m glad to have given AIOs a chance. Don’t expect insane cooling capability, but in my experience they are honestly just easier to deal with than the massive air coolers.
I'd probably do it in the first six months to be sure everything is going well and then annually after that. I'm not sure what you mean when you asked: "What hardware do people switch out, waterblocks fittings?" If your referring to what needs to be changed to accommodate different motherboards and CPU's, it's normally just tubing and the main CPU waterblock if the thermal solution changed. On that front, this is rare as compatibility of thermal solutions is relatively broad. More so on the Intel side than the AMD side. You can usually switch between and of the LGA 115x sockets and 2011 through 2066. On the AMD side, AM4 is its own thing on most boards and Threadripper's all interchange but you can't use AM4 waterblocks on Ryzen processors.
As far as leaks go, most coolants won't damage your components. On the test bench I had a full on split in the tube (it was really old, and I should have replaced it years earlier) and fluid went all inside the video card, the motherboards PCIe slot, all over the CPU socket, in the socket, etc. It was the worst disaster I have ever had. I took everything apart, cleaned it with alcohol and even scrubbed the motherboard with soap and water. The only thing I did clean beyond dousing it with alcohol was the CPU socket due to how fragile LGA style pins are. All of that hardware is working fine to this day. That said, it was carelessness on my part that led to that. I sometimes neglect maintenance more than I should, but using good quality premixed coolants I have never had corrosion issues. I've never had failures of block seals or anything like that. I did at one point have a pair of defective right angle fittings, but it was really a bad design. Koolance replaced them for me at no charge well after I had purchased them. The new ones didn't leak.
In any event, you should generally find that stuff out during leak testing. I've never had a fitting fail or any block failures. The one tube that split, did so because I had forgotten to hook up power to the external cooling unit and the tube had been thermal cycled getting almost to melting point and then cooling back down. Over the years, I've done this a handful of times during board reviews. This isn't a problem most people would ever face.
The most important lessons I've learned with watercooling:
1.) Buy quality components.
2.) Do not mix metals. (Not a mistake I've made, but I've seen it on other people's builds.)
3.) Take your time during the build phase. Don't get excited and make mistakes taking shortcuts or not doing your due diligence.
4.) Use only quality premixed coolants. Do not use silvery bullshit. I've made this mistake before, thankfully, my experience wasn't even all that bad compared to some.
5.) Leak test. Then test some more. I think some people over test with 48 hour leak tests and the like. I've never found that to be completely necessary. If your going to have leaks, it will be in the first few minutes in most cases. I've given it a few hours to see if I could spot slow leaks, but going back to number 3, you should be OK. When leak testing, you won't have power to most of the system and you should be using deionized water for it. You don't need to use actual coolant for this. If you do have a leak, as I did building my first rig with hard PETG tubing, it won't hurt anything. Just dry everything out and you'll be fine. (I used a heat gun. Be careful when attempting this.)
6.) If you do have a leak. Calm the fuck down and don't panic. Your probably OK. Simply shut the system down. Have some paper towels handy or whatever. Drain the loop, address the problem. Dry everything out, reassemble and retest.
7.) Try and watercool everything you want to cool in one shot. Don't double or triple your work by adding components in after the fact.
8.) Overbuild. By this I mean, estimate your cooling capacity needs and give yourself a comfortable margin. Even if you don't plan on overclocking, having more heat dissipation capacity is never a bad thing. You can make the machine even quieter by doing this as you'll barely need fans if you do it right. Plus, if you are overclocking, or doing GPU+CPU, you never know what the future holds. Case in point, when AM4 came out, an eight core Ryzen 1700X was the worst thing you had to cool. Now we have 16c/32t CPU's that are much harder to cool for various reasons. My rig can cool anything. On this loop I've had Intel's Core i9 [email protected]. That thing pulls more power than a Threadripper 3970X. So, I could certainly handle one of those with ease.
Its odd how many people come in here to an air cooling suggestion thread and suggest AIO's.
I think most of the people recommending water either have not experienced many, if any, failures or....love spending hours on a custom loop with draining and cleaning.
In a few months I will post here with my comparison of a 360 AIO and ProSiphon on my 3900x with CCX overclocking.
I think most of the people recommending water either have not experienced many, if any, failures or....love spending hours on a custom loop with draining and cleaning.
In a few months I will post here with my comparison of a 360 AIO and ProSiphon on my 3900x with CCX overclocking.
Jamie Marsala
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2016
- Messages
- 316
I do like the thought of air cooling, I personally just did not like the look of the huge cooler in my pretty case. As well as the way I had to set the fans to clear my RAM. I had a Noctua NH-D15S that I added a NF-F12 to when I still saw temps higher than I would like. But I had to put the fan on the opposite side of the RAM and change the inner fan around and wedge the new fan between the rear exhaust and the huge cooler. It just did not look good with a case with a window in it. With my 280 AIO it cools a lot better and of course looks better, in my newer case which is pretty my all glass.
I would like to see how you comparison goes though.
causticspill
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2010
- Messages
- 370
I'm still on a 1700X and my old old old not-even-Evo Hyper 212 but have been kicking around dropping in a 3700/3800/3900X. So just popping in to say that this has to be one of the most helpful threads I have read in a long time. Lots of good across the board Ryzen/cooling info- so thanks everyone.
I'll add one other thing. IMHO through my own tests/experience, I challenge anyone to find an AIO that can cool the Threadripper as effedtively as a beefy heat sink in a case with great air flow. I had 2 Enermax Liqtech TR4 that was 2C warmer than The Noctua NH-U14S and 5C warmer than the Thermalright Silver Arrow TR4. Of course the right TIM and application method factors in as well. I followed Kyle's application method using the Prolimatech PK-3. I personally think the Silver Arrow outfitted with the Noctua Chromax fans, highlighted with blue LEDs looks bad ass.
Thats a shame that looks are now such a large factor. I find myself rarely looking at my rigs while benchmarking/gaming/editing.
My 3900x is stuffed away in my thermaltake wp200 with a nh-d15 using IC graphote 40×40mm pads. The fans it uses are EK f4 120mm on the cooler, not the noctua fans it comes with. Temps are actually 2c better and there is not so much of a hum when at 100%.
As for the 8700k rig that is using my cooler master ml360r AIO with kryonaut now housed in a phanteks elite p600s. Previously this was in my cooler master h500m (flagship case) but AIO's get starved for air at the top as theres no mount offset to allow mobo vrm clearance, this is where the p600s shines. This case (h500m) will be the new home for my 3900x as i tts using air and that case is awesome for air but a bitch to wire.
For those wanting to know, the 360 push/pull temps were 8c cooler (idle) moving to the phanteks, cant wait to use the prosiphon and see if she gives me more oc headroom.
My 3900x is stuffed away in my thermaltake wp200 with a nh-d15 using IC graphote 40×40mm pads. The fans it uses are EK f4 120mm on the cooler, not the noctua fans it comes with. Temps are actually 2c better and there is not so much of a hum when at 100%.
As for the 8700k rig that is using my cooler master ml360r AIO with kryonaut now housed in a phanteks elite p600s. Previously this was in my cooler master h500m (flagship case) but AIO's get starved for air at the top as theres no mount offset to allow mobo vrm clearance, this is where the p600s shines. This case (h500m) will be the new home for my 3900x as i tts using air and that case is awesome for air but a bitch to wire.
For those wanting to know, the 360 push/pull temps were 8c cooler (idle) moving to the phanteks, cant wait to use the prosiphon and see if she gives me more oc headroom.
Dopamin3
Gawd
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2009
- Messages
- 763
NH-D15 with stock fans (Meshify C case with 2x Noctua NF-A14 iPPC-2000 intake and another as exhaust) gives pretty good results. I get 4.1GHz all cores 100% load (usually running two Handbrake transcodes simultaneously), ~4.3GHz in gaming and occasionally see a 4.625GHz single core turbo according to HWinfo64 (haven't seen the mythical 4.7 yet). Idle temp of 31C and max load temp of 78C. I know I could drive this down further by replacing the low RPM fans included with the NH-D15 with better ones but haven't really found the need to do it. Also could probably undervolt to help but just running everything at stock basically with my XMP profile for 3600 CAS 16 loaded.
I think the only air coolers I would really consider are NH-D15, Zalman CNPS20X, Deepcool Assassin III, and BeQuiet Dark Rock Pro4.
I think the only air coolers I would really consider are NH-D15, Zalman CNPS20X, Deepcool Assassin III, and BeQuiet Dark Rock Pro4.
Attachments
What voltage are you using for the 4.1GHz overclock which I assume is stable? Also, what settings and results are you getting with a single instance of Handbrake running? (Encoding settings, resolution, length of video/movie, avg. FPS)
Dopamin3
Gawd
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2009
- Messages
- 763
I'm not overclocking, it's just standard XFR/PBO boosting that my X470 Taichi Ultimate does. I'm on an unreleased BIOS 3.94 that has AGESA 1.0.0.4B.
With 1 handbrake instance running I'm getting 4.2GHz - 4.225GHz with minor fluctuation. Voltage according to HWiNFO64 is varying between 1.331v - 1.35v. The problem with running only one instance is it typically underutilizes all 16 threads. By running two instances I get near 100% CPU usage and surprisingly I still have enough power to play something like Modern Warfare lol
I don't know exactly how to gauge performance, but it goes pretty fast for me compared to my older setups. I encode to 720P HEVC from whatever I have (usually 1080P or 720P x264) and attached is my preset (take off the .txt extension and make it .json to import into Handbrake too look).
I'm pretty close minded when it comes to issues like this. I don't believe that it's really a viable, technically sound product if you can't cool it adequately with air cooling. It's basically akin to admitting that they can't really hit the clockspeeds they're advertising.
Jamie Marsala
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2016
- Messages
- 316
To be honest the chip should run just fine and boost where it is supposed to on high end air cooling. Just not on cheap air cooling. My 3900X has no problem hitting 180 Watts of power consumption and I assume the 3950x draws a little more. So you need to think of that when air cooling. Sure that is only when it is at all core 100% but still that is a lot of heat to dissipate. In my case, the case has a lot of glass, I liked the look and performance of an AIO. I want to do custom loop but am waiting to get back to work first. I had an air cooler on it, a Noctua, and with AIO it holds temps down a few degrees more than air did under heavy loads that I would normally not hit anyway under normal circumstances. With my glass panel though I personally went AIO. If it was a solid panel on the case then who knows what route I would have taken.
I'm using a C14 on my 3900X in an ITX (NCASE) build. I have been running it with the two stock NF-P14 fans, however I just upgraded RAM and no longer have clearance for the lower fan. Since I'm just running the top fan now, I decided to order a NF-A15 HS-PWM chromax.Black.swap to get more airflow over the P14.