WGA=Windows Kill Switch?

[Spectre]

[Spectre]

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http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=84
He told me that "in the fall, having the latest WGA will become mandatory and if its not installed, Windows will give a 30 day warning and when the 30 days is up and WGA isn't installed, Windows will stop working, so you might as well install WGA now."
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If true that is not a pretty thought.
 
I once heard that SP1 would make fake keys not work and SP2 would fix all security issues! :rolleyes:
 
I dont like this at all. And it would seem every tuesday it downloads again and again...anyone else notice this?
 
He told me that "in the fall, having the latest WGA will become mandatory and if its not installed, Windows will give a 30 day warning and when the 30 days is up and WGA isn't installed, Windows will stop working, so you might as well install WGA now."
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I love how the secret was revealed. Not by a highly placed insider, or by a program manager, but by some third tier tech support lackey. :p
 
I don't care about any of this. Not WGA, not HDCP, not DRM, nothing. I pay for all my stuff legally, and I never encounter problems. I don't care what Microsoft does with their products, as long as me, a paying customer, remains unaffected, they can take care of pirates in whatever way suits them.
 
InorganicMatter said:
I don't care about any of this. Not WGA, not HDCP, not DRM, nothing. I pay for all my stuff legally, and I never encounter problems. I don't care what Microsoft does with their products, as long as me, a paying customer, remains unaffected, they can take care of pirates in whatever way suits them.
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Finally, someone with common sense and some rational thinking. Microsoft has every right to protect themselves from piracy. If you have a legit copy, you have nothing to bitch about.
 
Vista will push me to Linux on all my machines. This won't be a problem for me right now cause all my machines are WGA compliant.
 
InorganicMatter said:
I don't care about any of this. Not WGA, not HDCP, not DRM, nothing. I pay for all my stuff legally, and I never encounter problems. I don't care what Microsoft does with their products, as long as me, a paying customer, remains unaffected, they can take care of pirates in whatever way suits them.
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Some of us, on the other hand, enjoy our privacy and the ability to do what we want with our files.
 
jimmyb said:
Some of us, on the other hand, enjoy our privacy and the ability to do what we want with our files.
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And it's attitudes like this that cause all the problems. It has absolutely nothing to do with privacy, or what you do with your own personal files. But then again it's easier to just bitch at Microsoft than actually read and learn something. Such is life.
 
djnes said:
And it's attitudes like this that cause all the problems. It has absolutely nothing to do with privacy, or what you do with your own personal files. But then again it's easier to just bitch at Microsoft than actually read and learn something. Such is life.
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It is not such a big deal that MS doesn't want their stuff pirated....what is a big deal though is telling you that they will revoke your valid license if you don't do x,y, or z after you have aquired the license.

Interstingly in the EULA I can find no mention of required use of new components. That being the case MS can't invoke these clauses to make you do so.

Now if you were to argue that each update carries a different EULA.....that would require you to actually accept the admendum (which since you don't have to accpet the update you don't have to accept the admendment). If you don't accept the admendum they should not be able to exercise this clause:

14. TERMINATION. Without prejudice to any other rights, Microsoft may terminate this EULA if you fail to comply with the terms and conditions of this EULA. In such event, you must destroy all copies of the Software and all of its component parts.
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21. ENTIRE AGREEMENT; SEVERABILITY. This EULA (including any addendum or amendment to this EULA which is included with the Software) is the entire agreement between you and Microsoft relating to the Software and the support services (if any) and they supersede all prior or contemporaneous oral or written communications, proposals and representations with respect to the Software or any other subject matter covered by this EULA. To the extent the terms of any Microsoft policies or programs for support services conflict with the terms of this EULA, the terms of this EULA shall control. If any provision of this EULA is held to be void, invalid, unenforceable or illegal, the other provisions shall continue in full force and effect.
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Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer so this advice adn opinion is worth about what you paid for it. ;)
 
Spectre said:
It is not such a big deal that MS doesn't want their stuff pirated....what is a big deal though is telling you that they will revoke your valid license if you don't do x,y, or z after you have aquired the license.
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Its not like the CD will blow up, you can probobly just reinstall again after x days.
 
Spectre said:
It is not such a big deal that MS doesn't want their stuff pirated....what is a big deal though is telling you that they will revoke your valid license if you don't do x,y, or z after you have aquired the license.
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It's not like they are making you jump through a flaming hoop. A simple mouse click here and there. I bet if this were a game or a non-Microsoft app, and it required a one-time validation, no one would be bitching.
 
djnes said:
It's not like they are making you jump through a flaming hoop. A simple mouse click here and there. I bet if this were a game or a non-Microsoft app, and it required a one-time validation, no one would be bitching.
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Is WGA a one time validation? Most evidence points to no.
Has WGA broken things that were legit? Yes.
SHould you have to accept the chance that MS will break something (else)? No



And actually I was wrong MS does provide for updates having their own EULA

8. ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE/SERVICES. This EULA applies to updates, supplements, add-on components, or Internet-based services components, of the Software that Microsoft may provide to you or make available to you after the date you obtain your initial copy of the Software, unless we provide other terms along with the update, supplement, add-on component, or Internet-based services component. Microsoft reserves the right to discontinue any Internet-based services provided to you or made available to you through the use of the Software.
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The only provision for not accepting the new EULA is no more internet based services....NOT killing WIndows.
 
djnes said:
And it's attitudes like this that cause all the problems. It has absolutely nothing to do with privacy, or what you do with your own personal files. But then again it's easier to just bitch at Microsoft than actually read and learn something. Such is life.
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I think you misunderstood me. I was replying to the comment about WGA, HDCP, and DRM.

But then I still think WGA has a lot to do with privacy.
 
djnes said:
Finally, someone with common sense and some rational thinking. Microsoft has every right to protect themselves from piracy. If you have a legit copy, you have nothing to bitch about.
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I am no angel with software, but I do have LEGAL XP Pro, and I will get a LEGAL Vista when I feel the need.....I wish the OS was a bit cheaper, but MS does indeed have the RIGHT to protect themselves from THEFT....if you owned a store, would like being robbed by every 10th customer?
 
TheRapture said:
I am no angel with software, but I do have LEGAL XP Pro, and I will get a LEGAL Vista when I feel the need.....I wish the OS was a bit cheaper, but MS does indeed have the RIGHT to protect themselves from THEFT....if you owned a store, would like being robbed by every 10th customer?
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Good analogy. I don't see these people complaining that there's security cameras in every Wal-Mart on planet earth, what makes WGA any different that that?
 
jimmyb said:
I think you misunderstood me. I was replying to the comment about WGA, HDCP, and DRM.

But then I still think WGA has a lot to do with privacy.
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The funny thing is I never really was bugged about DRM schemes until one of my wife's favorite DVD's started skipping and I tried to make a backup of the DVD we had legally purchased.


TheRapture said:
I am no angel with software, but I do have LEGAL XP Pro, and I will get a LEGAL Vista when I feel the need.....I wish the OS was a bit cheaper, but MS does indeed have the RIGHT to protect themselves from THEFT....if you owned a store, would like being robbed by every 10th customer?
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WIndows is cheap software. Ever have to buy real software.....professional software? 700 a license isn't outside the realm or normalcy with professional comercial software.
 
Spectre said:
WIndows is cheap software. Ever have to buy real software.....professional software? 700 a license isn't outside the realm or normalcy with professional comercial software.
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Try looking at Solidworks or AutoCAD, both START at $4,000/seat for the basic versions
 
...having the latest WGA will become mandatory and if its not installed, Windows will give a 30 day warning...
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How exactly are they going to accomplish this?

You'd first have to download an update to tell Windows "WGA is now mandatory, start the countdown". And you can say no to this update like any other.
 
InorganicMatter said:
Good analogy. I don't see these people complaining that there's security cameras in every Wal-Mart on planet earth, what makes WGA any different that that?
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Owning a store and it getting robbed can get u shot or atleast make you bug out from the "situation". Unlike somebody pressing the copy button in their home! :rolleyes:
 
djnes said:
Finally, someone with common sense and some rational thinking. Microsoft has every right to protect themselves from piracy. If you have a legit copy, you have nothing to bitch about.
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Indeed. If you are legal, who cares. Unless someone can really rationalize why a legit user doesnt want WGA on their puter.
 
4saken said:
Unless someone can really rationalize why a legit user doesnt want WGA on their puter.
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Oh I don't know....maybe

*
I have an XP Media center with a promise RAID 0 4-disc array. When I installed the WPA it broke the drivers for the array by causing failed delayed writes (half of the array just “disapears”.) If I do a system restore to before the installation of the WPA everything goes back to working just fine.
*
ince installing WPA … I’ve had blue screens and a total inability to boot. I had to run the XP repair function to get the computer to boot. I had a damaged boot sector on the hard drive. I am running two drives on a RAID 1 config.
*
I purchased a SEALED OEM copy of XP Professional. WGA said the license key was already used. I called MS and they said I should uninstall and buy another copy. I told them I wasn’t made of money and hung-up.
*
Microsoft rejected the product key that came with the ThinkPad I’m using. I had to call in and they gave me another code to enter which supposedly worked but now I get the blue screen of death about every other time I reboot. I’ve also lost all internet connectivity.
*
I sent my Compaq Presario notebook for service repair, and it fails the WGA check. I have a legal version of windows xp professional on it. But I have no way to correct this problem.
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http://www.edbott.com/weblog/?p=1370#comments

Not to mention why does WGA need to recheck so many times once the OS is installed and the first check is done? Is someone going to devise a cunning plan to use a legit key to install....then rip that key out and replace it with a bogus one later on.....

Ha! Take that Microsoft!! Ha ha....victory is mine! :rolleyes:
 
I'm not saying it's not possible, but here are some possible causes to those:

1) RAID0 arrays aren't very stable...not a surprise one failed.
2) Could be a number of thinks to screw a bootloader
3) Purchased a sealed OEM copy, but the key was already used? Where was it purchased? Ebay? Some guy on the street? Definitely possible it was resold.
4) Again, what license was on the thinkpad? No info given...could be pirated.
5) Who repaired the Compaq laptop? The Geek Squad? Could have been wiped and reloaded with pirated software. The Geek Squad has a history of using less than legal software.

There are many explanations, and there's no way for us to tell if WGA had anything to do with any of those problems above.
 
djnes said:
I'm not saying it's not possible, but here are some possible causes to those:

1) RAID0 arrays aren't very stable...not a surprise one failed.
2) Could be a number of thinks to screw a bootloader
3) Purchased a sealed OEM copy, but the key was already used? Where was it purchased? Ebay? Some guy on the street? Definitely possible it was resold.
4) Again, what license was on the thinkpad? No info given...could be pirated.
5) Who repaired the Compaq laptop? The Geek Squad? Could have been wiped and reloaded with pirated software. The Geek Squad has a history of using less than legal software.

There are many explanations, and there's no way for us to tell if WGA had anything to do with any of those problems above.
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Yes there are many and a common thread which ties all the problems togerther. If installing WGA causes a problem and uninstalling it fixes the problem......what might the cause be?

You could also follow the link and read some of the other issues that have poped up with corporate licenses, upgrade licenses etc.
 
Personally I welcome WGA. I write software for a living and WGA is a far friendlier solution that I would ever consider. If it became an issue my anti-piracy measures would have something to do with a couple of bikers with baseball bats and 17 pieces of bubblegum. You do the math.

Some people may not like it, but I guess because my livelyhood relies on people not stealing my software, then it doesn't really bother me.
 
sithspit said:
Personally I welcome WGA. I write software for a living and WGA is a far friendlier solution that I would ever consider. If it became an issue my anti-piracy measures would have something to do with a couple of bikers with baseball bats and 17 pieces of bubblegum. You do the math.

Some people may not like it, but I guess because my livelyhood relies on people not stealing my software, then it doesn't really bother me.
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Sure sure. And your livelyhood depends on you keeping your customers happy and people buying your software. Annoy them enough when you aren't the only game in town (and lets be honest MS is the the defacto only game in town) and people won't buy your software.
 
Nobody has proved conclusively that it's annoying though. There are lots of what-if's, conjecture, speculation and paranoid delusions from people who are damned thieves and don't want to admit it.

Oh, and

Not to mention why does WGA need to recheck so many times once the OS is installed and the first check is done? Is someone going to devise a cunning plan to use a legit key to install....then rip that key out and replace it with a bogus one later on.....
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Yeah, exactly that. I don't think that is practicable but who knows...

and for the privacy nuts, what personal identifiable information that tells microsoft how much kiddie pr0n you have does WGA send?

Damn, I get pissed off when I don't sleep.
 
sithspit said:
Nobody has proved conclusively that it's annoying though.
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The fact that people are annoyed is the most conclusive proof you will ever find.

As far as the privacy goes, I don't want my computer doing anything without my permission.
 
jimmyb said:
The fact that people are annoyed is the most conclusive proof you will ever find.

As far as the privacy goes, I don't want my computer doing anything without my permission.
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Who's annoyed? You, pirates?...give me names and numbers that are more solid than simple statistical distribution.

That's what I mean, there's no PROOF, people screaming bloody murder because the media told them too.
 
sithspit said:
Who's annoyed? You, pirates?...give me names and numbers that are more solid than simple statistical distribution.

That's what I mean, there's no PROOF, people screaming bloody murder because the media told them too.
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As much a fan of solid proof as I am this is a case were you most likely won't find any since I sincerely doubt MS has commissioned a survey on the situation (and given it's relative newness). Though there is proof that it was bothering legitimate users in the lawsuit that was filed:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/275780_msftsuit29.html

And that MS has given a way to remove the original version:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/921914
 
YES MS has a right to protect their produces from piracy (btw I I have legal copy of XP & 2k just for the record). BUT there is a biigg difference between every month a new WGA being installed to check yr system AND that WGA reporting home the majority of the time!

for one I pay for my bandwidth so what right does MS have to take (be it a few k) that from em. I never agreed to that in the EULA I accepted at install!

Also being a Linux user I tend to go through periods of not using Windows for quite a while and then I will go back to XP (and not use linux for a while). does that mean IF I get the timing wrong I could be locked out because I didn't do something within that 30days.

And what if the numbers they decide to block is my (LEGIT) number!!!
I'm sorry BUT I never accepted those as conditions to the use of XP, THIS is breaking my statitory rights and they have changed their conditions of use after I effectively entered into a purchase contract with MS (at the time I bought my disk)

Belive me any slight inconvineice I am straight onto trading standards, this is BS, just like DRM is.
 
sithspit said:
Who's annoyed? You, pirates?
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First, I'm going to assume that that is a comma separated list and you're not accusing me of being a pirate (, as fun as being a pirate would be).

Second, yes, I am slightly annoyed. So is the OP and a few other people in this thread. That in itself is proof that it is annoying to some people at the least.

For me, it is mostly a matter of principle. I wouldn't give Microsoft the keys to my house to check up on me, nor would I want to give them access to my computer to check up on me.

I'm sure most people won't care at all though.
 
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