well well well 23" AS-IPS LCD's start to appear.

Whitebread said:
Whats so special about AS-IPS panels?
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Everything. They are the class of the field. Widest viewing angles, top notch response, excellent color.

I can't stand the viewing angles on PVA/MVA/TN and won't even look at them.
 
Are they gonna implement overdrive with this one? The NEC had noticeable artifacts in video playback for better response time, so will this ACD be similar?
 
O, I wish I had known that before I bought my panels. I wonder how much this LCD is going to cost.
 
AS-IPS is currently the best IMO, response time of TN and black level of PVA with the colour of IPS.

The Philips isnt cheap priced at around £850-£900 compared to the new HP 2465 RRP £850, note your losing an inch aswell.
 
Snowdog said:
Everything. They are the class of the field. Widest viewing angles, top notch response, excellent color.

I can't stand the viewing angles on PVA/MVA/TN and won't even look at them.
Click to expand...

Look head on at a 2405 and the sides are a completly different tone, try using the default windows desktop blue backgroud and you will see what I mean.
 
kleox64 said:
Look head on at a 2405 and the sides are a completly different tone, try using the default windows desktop blue backgroud and you will see what I mean.
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You don't have to tell me. This was part of the reason I sold my 2405 and am now interested at looking into a S-IPS panel which may be the only one with decent real world viewing angles.
 
That Albito looks nice. You guys can attest to the internals (specs, etc) but the subtle design of the unassuming bezel strikes me most.

This looks like an international model though. Group buy anyone?
 
Whitebread said:
Whats so special about AS-IPS panels?
Click to expand...

Not enough for the price. I have no clue what panel my old Dell 2001fp has, but it holds its own in response time time, image quality, and viewing angle against any other LCD out there. I will admit the black levels aren't top notch, but they aren't on any LCD.
 
NulloModo said:
Not enough for the price. I have no clue what panel my old Dell 2001fp has, but it holds its own in response time time, image quality, and viewing angle against any other LCD out there. I will admit the black levels aren't top notch, but they aren't on any LCD.
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it was an S-IPS
 
People need to understand LCD's will never reach CRT levels, its physicaly impossible to achieve the same properties.

AS-IPS is improving things howvever IMO this is the last developement that we will see as LCD technology has reached a brickwall, this is 7th generation and there are still issues.

1) LED's replace CCFL lamps therefore surpassing CRT's in colour accuracy, no problem if people can blow $3000-$4000 on an LCD monitor.
2) Black will never be black as the LCD is a passive device with a backlight, therefore no solution to this.
3) Response time is as fast as it will ever be due to the very nature of TFT.
 
kleox64 said:
People need to understand LCD's will never reach CRT levels, its physicaly impossible to achieve the same properties.

AS-IPS is improving things howvever IMO this is the last developement that we will see as LCD technology has reached a brickwall, this is 7th generation and there are still issues.

1) LED's replace CCFL lamps therefore surpassing CRT's in colour accuracy, no problem if people can blow $3000-$4000 on an LCD monitor.
2) Black will never be black as the LCD is a passive device with a backlight, therefore no solution to this.
3) Response time is as fast as it will ever be due to the very nature of TFT.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but you're wrong on several counts. For starters, LCD panels continue to improve by almost every metric. There's absolutely no evidence of the brick wall you mention.

There's no reason to assume LED backlights will be different to any other technology in terms of pricing. IE: expensive at first and then massively cheaper as scale builds. And you are flat wrong about LCDs never achieving true blacks and being passive. Already, displays with an array of small LEDs are being demoed where the LED backlights behind black pixels are turned off, therefore delivering true black. If you had an LED array with one LED for each pixel you could have perfect blacks on each and every pixel. In practice the LED array is more coarse than the LCD, but it's close enough to deliver exremely good black level performance.

Here's a preview of one such display:

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2005/10/04/brightside_hdr_edr/1.html
 
Every metric? I don't think so. Response times have decreased, luminosity has seen some improvements, contrast ratios may be higher, but viewing angles, deep black levels, and colour reproduction has actually gone down, even on the new fangled models.

We do need some new tech, but LCD tech has become so cheap and there are too many people who don't really care. :(
 
caboosemoose said:
Sorry, but you're wrong on several counts. For starters, LCD panels continue to improve by almost every metric. There's absolutely no evidence of the brick wall you mention.

There's no reason to assume LED backlights will be different to any other technology in terms of pricing. IE: expensive at first and then massively cheaper as scale builds. And you are flat wrong about LCDs never achieving true blacks and being passive. Already, displays with an array of small LEDs are being demoed where the LED backlights behind black pixels are turned off, therefore delivering true black. If you had an LED array with one LED for each pixel you could have perfect blacks on each and every pixel. In practice the LED array is more coarse than the LCD, but it's close enough to deliver exremely good black level performance.

Here's a preview of one such display:

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2005/10/04/brightside_hdr_edr/1.html
Click to expand...

theres a big problem with this technology, its not viable SED is.

$50'000 cost and still based on LCD therefore suffers from the viewing angle and response time issues. All that effert and all you have gained is a brighter display.
 
Flying Fox said:
Every metric? I don't think so. Response times have decreased, luminosity has seen some improvements, contrast ratios may be higher, but viewing angles, deep black levels, and colour reproduction has actually gone down, even on the new fangled models.

We do need some new tech, but LCD tech has become so cheap and there are too many people who don't really care. :(
Click to expand...

You know exactly what Iam talking about.
 
Flying Fox said:
Response times have decreased, luminosity has seen some improvements, contrast ratios may be higher, but viewing angles, deep black levels, and colour reproduction has actually gone down, even on the new fangled models.
Click to expand...
Do you really believe in what you are saying to us here ? :confused:
 
Hmmmm... I was thinking of getting a 2405 when/if they went on sale, but I might pick one of these up and do an extra month of freshman babysitting to make up the difference.

By 'start to appear', does that mean they are in boxes and are shipping, or is something that is months away (like when the 2407 started to 'appear')
 
... or if someone is considering to have the next HDTV-LCD based on the same technology ... I'm seriously tempted to have my next LCD TV, based on the enhanced S-IPS technology, to complement the NEC LCD monitor ;) Essentially, LG.Philips is using the same NEC AS-IPS panel technology for the next generation of the HDTV-LCD panels. Take a look, it's a interesting read:

http://www.cleverdis.com/pdf_files/spr_lpl_05.pdf

Apart from the fact that document is mostly addressing the LCD TV aspects, you may find many interesting details about the development and essential advantages of the IPS panel technology.
 
caboosemoose said:
Sorry, but you're wrong on several counts. For starters, LCD panels continue to improve by almost every metric. There's absolutely no evidence of the brick wall you mention.

There's no reason to assume LED backlights will be different to any other technology in terms of pricing. IE: expensive at first and then massively cheaper as scale builds. And you are flat wrong about LCDs never achieving true blacks and being passive. Already, displays with an array of small LEDs are being demoed where the LED backlights behind black pixels are turned off, therefore delivering true black. If you had an LED array with one LED for each pixel you could have perfect blacks on each and every pixel. In practice the LED array is more coarse than the LCD, but it's close enough to deliver exremely good black level performance.

Here's a preview of one such display:

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2005/10/04/brightside_hdr_edr/1.html
Click to expand...

That is interesting, but it is hardly my main issue with LCD. I got rid of my 2405 for 2 main reasons, color shifts at tiny viewing angle changes and it was already too bright at 500cd/m2, so a 4000cd/m2 display does nothing for me.

That is why I much prefer SED or OLED. Niether run through polarizers and should have nice clean viewing angles without color shift. Both should modulate down to be comfortable for monitor usage in a dark room.
 
DVL73 said:
... or if someone is considering to have the next HDTV-LCD based on the same technology ... I'm seriously tempted to have my next LCD TV, based on the enhanced S-IPS technology, to complement the NEC LCD monitor ;) Essentially, LG.Philips is using the same NEC AS-IPS panel technology for the next generation of the HDTV-LCD panels. Take a look, it's a interesting read:

http://www.cleverdis.com/pdf_files/spr_lpl_05.pdf

Apart from the fact that document is mostly addressing the LCD TV aspects, you may find many interesting details about the development and essential advantages of the IPS panel technology.
Click to expand...

I am interested. They need to tell us which TVs/Monitors have these panels. Bad enough that most don't announce the technology in panels, some manufacturers reportedly even switch from S-IPS to PVA with no external change. So the same monitor that was tested/reviewed with a S-IPS panel 6 moths ago, will be a PVA when you order it today.

I would eventually like a big one for TV usage and a smaller one for computer usage.
 
The fact that some new displays are coming out with disappointing black levels, colours or viewing angles doesn't mean that the technology as a whole isn't moving forward. Because it is. The latest AS-IPS panels may well prove the best yet.
 
Has anyone heard of 19" models or 4:3 models of any size coming out in the near future with AS-IPS?
 
prety sure theres is nothing under 20", there is only 20" 4:3, 20.1" 16:10 and 23" 16:10.
 
Apparently the BenQ FP91R coming out in June is 19" with IPS. Haven't seen response time specs.
 
kleox64 said:
prety sure theres is nothing under 20", there is only 20" 4:3, 20.1" 16:10 and 23" 16:10.
Click to expand...
what monitors have the 20" 4:3?
 
I read and re-read this thread, please tell me what monitors in the US are using these panels for 1920x1200 or 23/24 inches?

I checked out the Philips panel, but it seems to me that those monitors have been out for some time. Is that correct? Or did they recently put those panels into that line of monitors?

I want to get one, just want to make sure it is the right one.

Also where do you guys verify what panel a particular monitor is using? Is that information easily accessed?

Thanks
 
there are no panels yet that have the full blown 23" AS-IPS LCD, the philips has a toned down version without the DVM. Apple will use it however the question is whether they wait until WDC for the release since it coincides with the MacPro desktops.
 
kleox64 said:
there are no panels yet that have the full blown 23" AS-IPS LCD, the philips has a toned down version without the DVM. Apple will use it however the question is whether they wait until WDC for the release since it coincides with the MacPro desktops.
Click to expand...
WDC?
 
spaceman said:
Samsung 204B
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Skip the 204b = TN panel

The VP2030b is also 20" but M-PVA like the VX2025 ... which I have owned for a few days and the colour and backlighting is decent (haven't gamed yet), better than 204b which I tried and returned.

Pixelman just bought a couple VP2030b's > see recent post and ask his opinion.
 
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