we laugh at people who don't know the basics of heat transfer

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Of course you probably aren't running your computer 24/7 under strain like many here do and therefore your needs for proper air circulation(which really cannot be achieved with only one fan placed as you have placed yours), it does not matter so much to you as you never leave your computer on long enough full load to actually see the results of a modern day computer spitting out heat like no other device in your home.
I have seen many of your average dells, compaqs, packard bells etc fail at lans after a few days due to the lack of a good circulation and a couple of home-built oc rigs too of course :p.

I don't know if you will eventually comprehend what others try to explain to you here, but if you have such a controversal opinion then I really think you should keep it to yourself as people in general do not like when those with no real expertise bash either self-proclaimed experts or real professional(in this case pc/hardware entusiasts).

Just my 50 öre though;)
 
Behold, another addition to the long list of threads that would not die. Of course, just by adding my $0.02, I'm continuing this nasty little cycle...how ironic.

I seem to recall something babbled about common physics. Screw physics, let's talk heat transfer (a specialty of common physics), specifically, convection from raised surfaces, such as the fins from heatsinks....

No, on second thought, let's not talk about it. Instead, if anyone wants to get information on who's right and who's wrong, just go here. Enter in your search terms, and get educated.

And please, for God's sake, let this thread (amusing though it may be) die.
 
I'm actually only running one fan 5V'd (zal 7000alcu) in my comp ([email protected]). No case or psu fans. 61C at load. fyi my mobo is upside down and I've perforated the bottom panel... and i nibbled a hole in the psu which is right next to the cpu (bleh hard to describe)

Like someone else said, there is a valid point that some people may use too many fans. But more fans does bring extra peace of mind that your comp won't overheat. For me, I'm willing to accept the (hopefully small) risk that my one fan might die and i'll be left with molten metal.

fyi i have primed for 12hrs...
 
Originally posted by mwarps
The MOSFETs are on the other side of the processor.

*blink*

Why am I even wasting my time?!
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My mosfets are directly below where the 2nd fan is...


Haha, I can't run prime, it instantly gives me an error :mad:

Should I just do the Sandra test over and over again? It seems to be the same thing pretty much, it's a mathematical test. I'm serious here, I want to prove my case.

Also, my PSU only has one fan, and it blows air out from the PSU itself.
 
Originally posted by MrFace
Haha, I can't run prime, it instantly gives me an error :mad:
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA are you serious? Do you understand what that error means? Damn dude. That's fucking awesome. Hopefully that'll make for a nice conclusion to this thread.
 
DUDE if Prime gives you an error that means that you are definitely and without a doubt not 100% stable. Prime 95 compares your cpu calculations with ones that are correct, and if they dont match you get an error. This happens when the processor is too hot and electrons get too excited and hop around the transistors giving you errors.

So after this 6 page thread you finally admit that you cant Prime worth shit. And no the Sandra mathematical whatever doesnt stress your cpu, it is just a benchmark. If you cant run Prime then you arent 100% stable its that easy.

PS read the "readme" that came with Prime this will explain it all.
 
Originally posted by jpmkm
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA are you serious? Do you understand what that error means? Damn dude. That's fucking awesome. Hopefully that'll make for a nice conclusion to this thread.
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:D :D *dances the cabbage patch*:D :D
 
Originally posted by MrFace
My mosfets are directly below where the 2nd fan is...


Haha, I can't run prime, it instantly gives me an error :mad:

Should I just do the Sandra test over and over again? It seems to be the same thing pretty much, it's a mathematical test. I'm serious here, I want to prove my case.

Also, my PSU only has one fan, and it blows air out from the PSU itself.
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"i don't need oil for my car, it's a myth! hm, but there's that loud grinding every time i start the engine.... wonder what that is"

the basic principle that's going on here is that you have a certain amount of heat being generated in your case by your processor, nb, sb, etc. you're using air as your working fluid to remove the heat. to maximise the heat transfer, you want the air hitting the processor to be as cool as possible. thus by quickly replacing the hot air in the case, you get lower temperatures. fans are used to replace the hot air in the case with colder air from the room.

while passive convection will get you a certain amount of air circulation (see the original imac), it's not going to be a whole lot of airflow. cold air won't magically enter into the vents in your case unless there's something pushing or sucking it into the case.

your psu has some holes in it. the fan there pulls air from inside the case into the power supply and exhausts it out the back. at the same time, new, cool air enters the bottom of the case through those little holes that you're talking about.

sticking 10 exhaust/intake fans in your case probably won't improve your temperatures by a whole lot if you already have several fans in a mid tower, but try removing the fan on your psu and see how hot you get at full load. also, you might want to check out the fan configurations on server cases. try telling supermicro that their 1U cases don't need intake and exhaust fans
 
Wow this thread should be locked and made sticky right away just for the sheer conclusiveness of it all..
 
I'm not sure what the "conclusiveness is". But I turned off my registry fix, and ran Prime for an hour(I'd like to use my computer, ya know). Here is the result of just an hour.

prime.bmp
 
Another thing...

I've been noticed quite a few topics being started like this "I add a new fan and my temps go UP".
 
Originally posted by MrFace
Another thing...

I've been noticed quite a few topics being started like this "I add a new fan and my temps go UP".
Click to expand...
Do you want a cookie? Are you saying those threads are evidence that case fans are unnecessary? The visors in my car restrict my vision, therefore visors in cars are completely unnecessary. And what is this registry fix you are talking about? What are you temperatures after running prime for an hour?
 
Originally posted by jpmkm
Do you want a cookie? Are you saying those threads are evidence that case fans are unnecessary? The visors in my car restrict my vision, therefore visors in cars are completely unnecessary. And what is this registry fix you are talking about? What are you temperatures after running prime for an hour?
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If you actually look at the post where I posted my results, it shows that I have a CPU temp of 41C after priming for one hour.

Registry fix is someting that AMD users can do that disables a lot of stuff on the CPU so that it runs a lot cooler, but the computer loses some of its stability.
 
Originally posted by MrFace
Another thing...

I've been noticed quite a few topics being started like this "I add a new fan and my temps go UP".
Click to expand...

And there are countless cases where people ADD a fan or two and temps go down. People don't always post about that because they think, "well no shit, that's exactly what I expected to happen!" and have nothing to complain about.
 
your temps 41 proc....8 degrees higher than mine was...congradulations, you fucked up your own thread!

i just proved there was no god btw...this winner has a processor, and mine just broke. WONDERFUL.
 
Originally posted by fugu
"i don't need oil for my car, it's a myth! hm, but there's that loud grinding every time i start the engine.... wonder what that is"
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sigworthy.

**********

MrFace, give up while you are behind, it is only gonna get worse. By the way, keep us informed of when you get hard drive failures or other device failures.

Basically bragging that your non-overclocked computer doesn't need cooling because you really don't use it for anything is rediculas. Never mind the fact your shit was unstable because you tried to keep it cool without fans. Many people around here build silent computers with little or no airflow that do thier job properly. We call them HTPCs.

Comparing your computer to the entire "Overclocking and Cooling" section and drawing the conclusion that we don't need the cooling we have is like saying "since my palm pilot has a computer chip in it and doesn't need cooling, then why do those idiots at Cray waste thier time cooling thier computers?"

Several people here do need extra cooling because of 1. volt modifications 2. several hard drives 3. multiple optical drives 4. overclocked computers (gasp) 5. Big ass video cards. And I am sure people can add to this list easilly.
 
uhh. i don't have any case fans. my PSU has an exhaust fan. my heatsink has a fan. and thats it. my computer has run for a month straigh.
 
Originally posted by milkyman
uhh. i don't have any case fans. my PSU has an exhaust fan. my heatsink has a fan. and thats it. my computer has run for a month straigh.
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Nobody is trying to say that *everyone* absolutely MUST have proper airflow through their case. However, trying to argue that proper airflow is of no benefit makes absolutely no sense at all. I'm watercooling, and the only case fans I have that likely do much to effect the motherboard ambient temp sensor reading are the two in my PSU. My case temp is consistantly 3-4'C above ambient if I'm running anything stressful(like prime95 for 7 hours, say). I can't imagine what my temps would be like if I just had a regular HSF on my cpu and no case fans.
 
Cool, so you intake dirty, dusty air and you think you somehow "exhaust" it too. Sure, your fan really has THAT much suction power
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moron what ever your name is. u need a hole for the fan to exhaust the air. ie if the han is covered no air gets exhausted. then u add a grill.

u can actually feel the hot air comming out of you case if u srtick your hand over it.

although i have no case fans.

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Take a fluid dynamics class and actually learn the way this stuff works instead of just making shit up that sounds good to you.
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yes!

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Anyway, let your computer run under load for a few hours and get back to us. 10 minutes doesn't mean much as far as I'm concerned.
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a few hours? no. a few weeks. :)

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MrFace
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the name says it all

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I didn't know being 21 and working for Microtek Med makes me a highschool kiddie
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you fucking moron!

- i've had enough. but i am now buying some case fans and a new case.

please see the thead i will soon create.
 
Originally posted by DocFaustus
sigworthy.

**********

MrFace, give up while you are behind, it is only gonna get worse. By the way, keep us informed of when you get hard drive failures or other device failures.

Basically bragging that your non-overclocked computer doesn't need cooling because you really don't use it for anything is rediculas. Never mind the fact your shit was unstable because you tried to keep it cool without fans. Many people around here build silent computers with little or no airflow that do thier job properly. We call them HTPCs.

Comparing your computer to the entire "Overclocking and Cooling" section and drawing the conclusion that we don't need the cooling we have is like saying "since my palm pilot has a computer chip in it and doesn't need cooling, then why do those idiots at Cray waste thier time cooling thier computers?"

Several people here do need extra cooling because of 1. volt modifications 2. several hard drives 3. multiple optical drives 4. overclocked computers (gasp) 5. Big ass video cards. And I am sure people can add to this list easilly.
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I've had my computer clocked at 2.3ghz for well over a year now. It's a Barton 2500+, which I dont think is 2.3ghz out of the box.

I also have a Radeon 9800 pro which is overclock too.

I also have two hard drives, which have never given me a problem.

I love how you try to bash me but have every fact wrong. Good job little buddy.
 
Originally posted by kronchev
your temps 41 proc....8 degrees higher than mine was...congradulations, you fucked up your own thread!

i just proved there was no god btw...this winner has a processor, and mine just broke. WONDERFUL.
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Whoa it broke? maybe you shouldn't have run it at 2.2ghz with stock volts then?:rolleyes:

A recommendation for all tired of noisey fans: get a rheobus and some high-quality fans and noise is history :)
 
Originally posted by MrFace
I've had my computer clocked at 2.3ghz for well over a year now. It's a Barton 2500+, which I dont think is 2.3ghz out of the box.

I also have a Radeon 9800 pro which is overclock too.

I also have two hard drives, which have never given me a problem.

I love how you try to bash me but have every fact wrong. Good job little buddy.
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You are still trying? I thought we proved you wrong about five pages ago. I have already put all my cards on the table and I do not feel like arguing anymore. If it works for you then I am proud of you. Do not come in here saying that everyone else is wrong because it works for you.
 
Originally posted by MrFace
Another thing...

I've been noticed quite a few topics being started like this "I add a new fan and my temps go UP".
Click to expand...

you are acutally correct here...ive noticed a few threads about that too....in about 90% of the cases....the person just screwed up the airflow by adding a fan.....they usually just mess around with all of the fans (intake or exhaust)...and they do as expected watch their temps drop.
 
Also, I DO HAVE FANS IN MY COMPUTER READ THE FUCKING THREAD CORRECTLY. I have TWO FANS.

This whole thread, is about the fact that I do NOT need to have a bunch of case fans, I NEVER said fans are not needed, I said REDUNDANT fans are.

Man, you guys are flipping out about NOTHING. Shit, If i made a damn comment on how I think having lights in the computer is pointless, you'd all come down on me. Get a life.
 
Originally posted by OPUS1
I am trully amazed at this thread!
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I'm amazed at the amount of people who dont' actually read it, then try to slander me.

I've been saying the WHOLE time, my computer runs GREAT with only two fans and that case fans aren't really needed.

People then start saying I run with NO fans :rolleyes:

Just a question, wehre do you guys live that if you "intake" hot air that it becomes cold somehow?
 
Originally posted by MrFace
Also, I DO HAVE FANS IN MY COMPUTER READ THE FUCKING THREAD CORRECTLY. I have TWO FANS.

This whole thread, is about the fact that I do NOT need to have a bunch of case fans, I NEVER said fans are not needed, I said REDUNDANT fans are.

Man, you guys are flipping out about NOTHING. Shit, If i made a damn comment on how I think having lights in the computer is pointless, you'd all come down on me. Get a life.
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So are you saying that ANY case fans are redundant?

We are not arguing with you because you presented your opinion. We are arguing with you because you presented your opinion as fact(common physics knowledge or whatever). I'm not even asking that you admit you are wrong. I am just asking that you stop trying to argue your point like you are making some amazing scientific breakthrough. We know what we are doing and we do not need you giving us fantasy physics lessons.
 
About the hot->cold air: I didn't read the thread, so whoever said that is uninformed. Having air running through the case just helps heat disipate better.
 
Originally posted by MrFace
Just a question, wehre do you guys live that if you "intake" hot air that it becomes cold somehow?
Click to expand...
For fuck's sake. YOU are the one who is using hot air since you have no intake fans. EVERYONE ELSE draws in cold air(cold relative to inside of computer) with their intake fans.
 
My boxen have two 120mm fans at 6v as intake blowing across the top of the volcano11 heat sinks.
Each box puts out around 250 watts of heat running folding@home.
They where switched on in 07/2003 and apart from the odd reboot have run 24/7 since then.
Ambient is around 25C.
Cpu's are around 45C.

Dont forget the fans in psu.
They are exhasting hot air.

Luck.............:D
 
Heh, I think the only fans this computer has is the PSU fans. Its a P3 and it has some contraption going up to the power supply with no fan on the heat sink. It's a very quiet computer! Never had problems either.
 
Originally posted by MrFace
Also, I DO HAVE FANS IN MY COMPUTER READ THE FUCKING THREAD CORRECTLY. I have TWO FANS.

This whole thread, is about the fact that I do NOT need to have a bunch of case fans, I NEVER said fans are not needed, I said REDUNDANT fans are.

Man, you guys are flipping out about NOTHING. Shit, If i made a damn comment on how I think having lights in the computer is pointless, you'd all come down on me. Get a life.
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BULLSHIT (see I can use all caps too)

You changed your post from what It said yesterday when I originally read it. You were calling all of us fools for having case fans. Now all the sudden you are playing it off like you were only talking about your own computer and not trying to talk down on the whole forum. Don't fucking start lying now.

Edit to add: You even tried to change the title of the thread. Too bad you can only change the title inside the post itself, the main title of "I laugh at you people with fans..." is still there. More proof you are a fucking liar.
 
Originally posted by MrFace
I'm amazed at the amount of people who dont' actually read it, then try to slander me.

I've been saying the WHOLE time, my computer runs GREAT with only two fans and that case fans aren't really needed.

People then start saying I run with NO fans :rolleyes:

Just a question, wehre do you guys live that if you "intake" hot air that it becomes cold somehow?
Click to expand...

Except for that whole prime95 error thing. But you know, aside from a malfunctioning cpu, your computer runs great
:D :D :D
 
OMG, calm down ppl. Let's not get all emotional now or we'll all be forced to have knife fights to the death... :)
 
Uhhh... Right. I have a FX 5900, a Barton 2500+ @ 2.3 ghz, 4 hard drives, and 2 CD drives. I have one intake fan in the back, blowing over my CPU. I have an exhaust fan in the side of my case, and a second exhaust fan in the PSU. I also have a recirculation fan that moves air over my hottest hard drives. With just the one fan on the side of the case, I get some pretty high load temps. Believe me, the intake fan is low RPM and is 120 mm. I get some great temps, and this case is almost silent.

Cable management is a must, rounded cables help. I know this from experience.

You see, there is something call air movement. Without it, you get something known has hot pockets. Even WITH fans, I get hot air pockets. I am going to add in a second case side fan to alleviate that.

BTW, my plywood PC doesn't even HAVE a fan, except for the one on the heatsink. It rattles and is dieing, but I don't care. BTW, I hope you never run F@H, MrFace. I sure do on all of my computers, so they are at full load 24/7.
 
Jesus Tapdancing Christ, is this thread still alive? Would the Mods PLEASE lock this steaming pile of excrement down?

MrFace, or whatever you call yourself: the only reason this thread continues to live is the fact that you insist on defending a thread that, right from the get-go, makes you sound like a complete and total ass. Need I quote the title of this thread?

"I laugh at you people with fans..." Perhaps the title (not even considering the original content and attitude of the message) may have something to do with the fact that so many people are kicking the sh*t out of your ideas?

I would strongly suggest that, in future posts to this forum, you carefully consider who might be reading your statements. There may be actual, honest to God, professionals in the fields you're talking about that are reading your words.

Fortunately you edited your original post. A wise move, if embarrassingly late. It may serve to prevent attracting more unwanted attention to your...opinion.

So you have two fans in your case, one in and one out. Fine. Good.

So you have overclocked your CPU, and "stress" test it using programs like Torrent, AIM, and IE. Fine. Good.

So your room is a nice and cool 60 - 70 F. Fine. Good.

ATI 9800PRO, and all sorts of other crap in your machine. Fine. Good.

In your opinion, you don't feel that you need more fans in your case. Fine. Good.

But where do you get the nerve, boy, in saying the following:

"You dont need so many fans.
Common physics knowledge proves my point."

This statement demonstrates your arrogance and your ignorance. Take a class in Heat Transfer, where you will learn about things like boundary layer, forced convection, Reynolds number, Nusselt number, and many other factors involved in heat transfer from heat-generating objects.

"You are trying to cool the PROCESSOR and the NB and SB. ... A case fan does NOTHING to accomplish that."

Perhaps you feel that case fans serve no other purpose but to sit there, spin, and look pretty? Why do you even bother using them, then?

Expand your system of concern.

Again, consider your words more carefully next time. And take a class in Heat Transfer, for the above stated reasons.

And, last and most insultingly to almost every member of the [H]:

"Don't give me the "OMG DUDE NO WAY DUDE IT SUCKS IN AIR AND PUSHES AIR OUT OMG STFU DUDE"."

You, boy, MrFace, are surprised at the types of responses you are getting? I'm not.

In fact, I think you're getting everything you deserve.:D
 
I'm running with only 2 fans on now: cpu and psu fans and my cpu temp is now up at 50 degrees celsius idle(although i'm only running it at 2000 RPM). Wee no fans = no air circulation = sucks although it is quite the relax for the ears :p
 
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