We all need a little more of this in our lives. NFT Market Collapses Just As Square Enix Sells Tomb Raider To Bet Big On Blockchain

The problem with this is that it's perfectly legal to trick idiots. It's because crypto in general has an extremely grey area of value, because it's hard to legally put into practice that a scam has occurred. Might even fall under unlawful enrichment. Look at the whole situation with Logan Paul and his NFT project and how so many people lost money. Sure, there's a lot of idiots who followed a guy who went to Japan to find dead bodies hanging from a tree, but that doesn't mean Logan Paul shouldn't pay them back and be fined heavily for this.



Trying to protect people from themselves, is often times not a good, or the, solution

Provide people with information, sure. But then let them sink or swim, succeed or fail, make a smart move or get duped, on their own
 
Trying to protect people from themselves, is often times not a good, or the, solution

Provide people with information, sure. But then let them sink or swim, succeed or fail, make a smart move or get duped, on their own
You mean like the "information" about promoting crypto and NFTs in this thread?
Drugs would be cheaper, and make more sense.
 
You mean like the "information" about promoting crypto and NFTs in this thread?
Drugs would be cheaper, and make more sense.

Information is information. True, false, honest, dishonest, accurate in hindsight, whatever - it's supposed to be on you to filter it out, learn, adapt. Can't protect people from themselves, with crypto or drugs, as the war on drugs (or even prohibition) has shown. People will do what they want.
 
Information is information. True, false, honest, dishonest, accurate in hindsight, whatever - it's supposed to be on you to filter it out, learn, adapt. Can't protect people from themselves, with crypto or drugs, as the war on drugs (or even prohibition) has shown. People will do what they want.
While I do agree that there are actions to consequences and those who decide are ultimately held liable, knowingly misinforming and misguiding people is far worse.
The former is out of ignorance, the later is out of malice.

A man chooses, a slave obeys. :borg:
 
I can send Tether or USDC to anyone in the world who has an internet connection, within minutes, coins supposedly backed 1:1 with the US dollar. No governmental issued currency can do this, even the mighty dollar. That ability for fast transactions to anyone network allows for a much more rapid business turn around time global wide. The US is moving towards a digital dollar where you should be able to do this as well, granted you have to have permission to do so which becomes another issue where your money is not really your money.

The integrity of transactions, auditability, history as well as public information to verify for a number of coins is untouched by traditional financial systems which are mostly hidden. Now privacy coins obscure transactions unless you have the keys to clearly show the transaction.

To label something broadly as all scams and Ponzi schemes is laughable if not sad. Not really worth the effort if one is not really willing to investigate truthfully the topic. One coin or coins and especially centralized Crypto holding institutions criminal activity does not represent what Crypto can do. It is definitely in a growing stage, experimental, testing in real world applications.

I've have bought thousands of dollars worth of items using Crypto and paid 100% of all my taxes etc. as a responsible citizen, from that aspect it worked exceedingly well for me. The fluctuations in value makes it less reliable for storing value, good for speculation only or what I would considered or determined to be a good coin. Most Crypto as in 99%+ of it, I would not consider as a currency but loosely an asset. Stable coins I would consider a transitory currency, meaning it is backed by a known more traditional currency. Tokens is probably a better term to be used then a coin which in most cases, crypto are not coins per se and was a mistake to name them as such.

As a currency, in current form, I do not see any of the Crypto working in current society. Current Economic models, money supply/restrictions makes any of the Crypto's not workable in my opinion. Even Gold can get restrictive for transactions as the population increases. Meaning as Gold gets more scarce per person as time goes on, deflationary, it makes more sense to just hold Gold then it is to use it to build something, a business etc. since that building over time would be worth less and less in Gold -> Economic collapse would result. We did not have much choice, as in the US, to stay on the Gold standard particularly as a World currency -> Economic doom would have resulted is my view. US dollar is now backed by not only the Gold the US still owns but also all of the other assets as well. Just you can't redeem it directly to a known commodity as in Gold.

Crypto is a form of speech, a more mathematical rule based version. It allows an expression to an exact amount which two people or more can communicate with reliability unmatched by anything previous. Really to prevent Crypto is also clamping down how people can interact with each other. I would never recommend that, let it play out and get refined to a more usable state.

NFTs are a derivative of Crypto, mostly blockchain validation, auditable accountability of ownership. NFT principle is not bad, just the actual product be it digital art can be bad and misused. The utter belief one can get rich quick with little effort needed can bring in the rift raft and current garbage state NFT is in. Sad to see how many can fall for pure garbage.
 
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I can send Tether or USDC to anyone in the world who has an internet connection, within minutes, coins supposedly backed 1:1 with the US dollar. No governmental issued currency can do this, even the mighty dollar
I will maybe sound quite ignorant (because I am and I have a little knowledge of how costly wire transfer can get), but for how much of the world this cannot be done with US dollar with say PayPal ?

The $5 paypal fee-time it take does not seem out of line with gas fee and time it take with USDC.
 
I will maybe sound quite ignorant (because I am and I have a little knowledge of how costly wire transfer can get), but for how much of the world this cannot be done with US dollar with say PayPal ?

The $5 paypal fee-time it take does not seem out of line with gas fee and time it take with USDC.
*cough* Western Union *cough*

Only been doing it for what, 120 years? In fact, their largest markets are US -> Overseas, especially since in places like Venezuela and other less... savory places, they're the only business you can trust.

I've done a lot of international business. WU has been doing this for a very, very long time. They're also VERY good at it.
 
I knew about western union, but I was not sure if they became between anyone with an Internet connection like paypall I can imagine being in like 200 countries (Without needing some vpn or special knowledge), what crypto competition could do is diminish fees or make the Europeen model (if you are in the eurozone, transfering money using regular bank transfert between anyone is near instant and near free from what I understand) worldwide.
 
Trying to protect people from themselves, is often times not a good, or the, solution

Provide people with information, sure. But then let them sink or swim, succeed or fail, make a smart move or get duped, on their own
The problem with this way of thinking is that we encourage businesses like NFT's to appear, and then regulated when the scamming gets out of hand. This is why I get so many phone calls about car warranty, because the scammers are allowed to get away with it. This is why old people get a call from Microsoft and how their computer maybe infected and needs their technicians to connect and will drain their bank account. NFT's should be banned and have the money they stole refunded. NFT's have no value what so ever. The only reason NFT's seemed like a good idea is because we think the stock market was a good idea, until after 1929 when the US banned stock buy backs until Regan allowed them again in 1981. Logan Paul's NFT's were going to be a pump and dump, but it turns out he hired some scammers who scammed him. There are just too many idiots to let them sink or swim, and it does effect the rest of us when they fail and the scammers succeed. You think I like picking up a phone to listen to a robot or an Indian who goes by the name of Jerry telling me my Windows PC is infected? Corporations and businesses should be the ones to sink or swim, not the people because in the end they aren't calling me to warn me about my car warranty.
 
None of that makes protecting people from themselves a good idea.
 
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Protecting people from deception and scams is not protecting them from themselves and there is zero legitimate reasons for a company or individual to act in that manner.

but this is like thinking you'll solve all violence

people are always gonna be dumb and fall for scams even if you making falling for scams illegal

outlaw the specific scams and new scams are born, people still scammed, shocked pikachu

you can't protect people from themselves
 
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but this is like thinking you'll solve all violence

people are always gonna be dumb and fall for scams even if you making falling for scams illegal

outlaw the specific scams and new scams are born, people still scammed, shocked pikachu

you can't protect people from themselves
You can't stop all bank robberies or murders so why don't we just make them legal, surely that will go well. There's no legitimate reason to scam people and it does a lot of harm to the victims to the extent that it spills over to harming the greater public when someone can't pay their bills or needs public assistance, it's a net loss for society and only benefits the cheats.
 
again, history has shown protecting people from themselves doesn't work 🤷‍♂️
 
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again, history has shown protecting people from themselves doesn't work 🤷‍♂️
Not offering lead or unlead gasoline and relying on people to protect themselve by buying the good one did work, paying tax has you get income instead of at the end of year, forcing retirement nest investment, etc... I am sure there is a long list of example that somewhat worked.
 
Not offering lead or unlead gasoline and relying on people to protect themselve by buying the good one did work, paying tax has you get income instead of at the end of year, forcing retirement nest investment, etc... I am sure there is a long list of example that somewhat worked.

ok, i await you solving no one ever being scammed again, can't wait to see it 👍

edit: i'm sure it's right on the shelf next to 'communist utopia'
 
That seem like a strange strawmen, it is about less people get less scammed

the road to hell is paved with good intentions

it's not a strawman

you judt don't like your claim of 'it's or the better i swear' is similar to their claim of 'it's for the better i swear'

again, things like the war on drugs and prohibition show us it's not

educate people, and let them be dummies if they be

freedom is freedom to be so fucking dumb you lost your money to an obvious scam, as well
 
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it's not a strawman
It is not a strawman to say that people are suggesting ideas about: solving no one ever being scammed again

it obviously is, no one is suggesting that no one being scammed is either a possible world or the trade off to create it would be worth it.
 
I will maybe sound quite ignorant (because I am and I have a little knowledge of how costly wire transfer can get), but for how much of the world this cannot be done with US dollar with say PayPal ?

The $5 paypal fee-time it take does not seem out of line with gas fee and time it take with USDC.
While Paypal is virtually world wide it also has restrictions, country by country requirements. It is it's own digital financial network, they were working on there own Digital coin (Crypto Coin, not sure if they will release it if ever). Russia is off limits at the moment with Paypal, China has specific requirements. At least now you can transfer actual Crypto Currency, limited coins, to exchanges, other people etc. It is also very centralized good or bad, meaning things can change quickly. Still that is about as close as you can get to Crypto with flexible transactions. Actually USDC fees can be much higher than $5 so Paypal is a good option if available.
 
*cough* Western Union *cough*

Only been doing it for what, 120 years? In fact, their largest markets are US -> Overseas, especially since in places like Venezuela and other less... savory places, they're the only business you can trust.

I've done a lot of international business. WU has been doing this for a very, very long time. They're also VERY good at it.
There (WU) in 40 countries digitally meaning fast transfers, don't know about their normal service which use to take hours but still relatively fast. They also restrict to Countries for good or bad reasons.

In both cases Crypto can reach way more people World wide with less restrictions, don't need a bank account, ID, residence in some places etc. Just an internet connection and a secure device connected.

There are ~ 2.2 billion people in the world that are unbanked. To send money through Paypal you need a Credit Card, Debit Card or Bank Account. Oops those 2.2 billion folks won't be able to use Paypal to send money.
 
It is not a strawman to say that people are suggesting ideas about: solving no one ever being scammed again

it obviously is, no one is suggesting that no one being scammed is either a possible world or the trade off to create it would be worth it.

people lost money on beenie babies

wanna ban them too? or all plush animals?
 
The problem with this is that it's perfectly legal to trick idiots

Except for when it is fraud.

In law, fraud is intentional deception to secure unfair or unlawful gain, or to deprive a victim of a legal right. Fraud can violate civil law (e.g., a fraud victim may sue the fraud perpetrator to avoid the fraud or recover monetary compensation) or criminal law (e.g., a fraud perpetrator may be prosecuted and imprisoned by governmental authorities), or it may cause no loss of money, property, or legal right but still be an element of another civil or criminal wrong. The purpose of fraud may be monetary gain or other benefits, for example by obtaining a passport, travel document, or driver's license, or mortgage fraud, where the perpetrator may attempt to qualify for a mortgage by way of false statements.

Internal fraud, also known as "insider fraud", is fraud committed or attempted by someone within an organization such as an employee.

A hoax is a distinct concept that involves deliberate deception without the intention of gain or of materially damaging or depriving a victim.
 
people lost money on beenie babies

wanna ban them too? or all plush animals?

Ty wasn't selling beanie babies as if they were a legitimate currency. They were sold as a toy.

If people thought that toy might become a collectible, that was entirely on them.

That right there is the difference. The claim made when something is sold.
 
It is not a strawman to say that people are suggesting ideas about: solving no one ever being scammed again

it obviously is, no one is suggesting that no one being scammed is either a possible world or the trade off to create it would be worth it.
Is not scamming, scams etc. illegal already? How is that working out?
 
Regardless of anyone's personal opinion of the usefulness in NFT the "prediction" of it collapsing is not new.. it's basically been predicted to collapse since the start when bitcoin was worth $1 or $15000.

But the large drop shouldn't even be a surprise considering how much the fed interest rate has been increased. I read the market should bounce back around late Feb. Yay stock market shenanigans
 
Is not scamming, scams etc. illegal already? How is that working out?
I mean if I consider how many time I was scammed in the last 10 years, good enough ? So much well that I mostly never read seriously contract-stuff you accept when you create an account in serious place, relying on the anti-scamming protection in place.

There are ~ 2.2 billion people in the world that are unbanked. To send money through Paypal you need a Credit Card, Debit Card or Bank Account. Oops those 2.2 billion folks won't be able to use Paypal to send money.
I will maybe show how much out of the loop I am, but how did the person sending crypto bought them without those ? Some cash to crypto physical counter ?

An unbanked person could at least buy stuff that accept paypall payment or:
https://fintechmagazine.com/digital-payments/paypal-extends-xoom-money-transfers-underbanked-africa
 
I mean if I consider how many time I was scammed in the last 10 years, good enough ? So much well that I mostly never read seriously contract-stuff you accept when you create an account in serious place, relying on the anti-scamming protection in place.


I will maybe show how much out of the loop I am, but how did the person sending crypto bought them without those ? Some cash to crypto physical counter ?

An unbanked person could at least buy stuff that accept paypall payment or:
https://fintechmagazine.com/digital-payments/paypal-extends-xoom-money-transfers-underbanked-africa
By work of course, here is an example where you can contract out anyone virtually in the world with or without a bank account:
https://electroneum.com/anytask/

Could be ART, Teaching, Study Guides, Music, Photos of exotic places, Tutoring . . . for those folks who governments are so fraudulent or poor for a good banking system that just robs most of the users trying to use it if there is a banking system. Of course can be used in any country as well.
 
By work of course, here is an example where you can contract out anyone virtually in the world with or without a bank account:
https://electroneum.com/anytask/
Could they not received money in their paypall account just has much (you do not need anything to just have a paypall account)...

You just need an email adress to have an paypall account no ?
 
There (WU) in 40 countries digitally meaning fast transfers, don't know about their normal service which use to take hours but still relatively fast. They also restrict to Countries for good or bad reasons.

In both cases Crypto can reach way more people World wide with less restrictions, don't need a bank account, ID, residence in some places etc. Just an internet connection and a secure device connected.

There are ~ 2.2 billion people in the world that are unbanked. To send money through Paypal you need a Credit Card, Debit Card or Bank Account. Oops those 2.2 billion folks won't be able to use Paypal to send money.
WU doesn't care about bank accounts. And can actually hand you currency - local or otherwise. You get sent crypto and ... generally can't buy bread with it. And it couldn't handle that kind of transaction load if you could.

Given the fraud that has happened with so many crypto exchanges, I'd rather have someone like WU who you know is going to hand over the cash - that's their job after all. Everyone assumed that was the job Mt Gox had... but... we see where that went.

But that's missing the fundamental issue - if I want to send cash to someone overseas, I'm either doing one of two things:
1. Sending cash. Family, friends, etc. WU does just fine for this. So do other systems. I regularly use both for various tasks.
2. Buying something. In which case, I'm probably going to need various third parties involved to even HANDLE said item, especially if it's worth any amount of money, and verify authenticity/etc, customs rules, import/export processes, etc (or it's small enough that paypal or WU would do just fine). Guess what those same third parties do? Handle escrow of cash.

Unless it's guns or drugs. In which case yeah, I might need an anonymous payment system that doesn't involve third parties.
 
By work of course, here is an example where you can contract out anyone virtually in the world with or without a bank account:
https://electroneum.com/anytask/
They're converting digital tokens of some kind to cash, just like a bank converts dollars to "digital tokens" (bits in your bank account) and then back to cash. That's not crypto, that's just third party handling.
Could be ART, Teaching, Study Guides, Music, Photos of exotic places, Tutoring . . . for those folks who governments are so fraudulent or poor for a good banking system that just robs most of the users trying to use it if there is a banking system. Of course can be used in any country as well.
If I'm buying art, I sure as hell want a verification of authenticity - and not from an NFT, which is not a legally binding contract, nor any guarantee that the physical item is what a seller claims it is. I've covered this before - if you're using NFTs to signify ownership of a physical item, you're looking for trouble - especially as a purchaser. If you're doing actual contract process around said purchase/sale, you don't need the NFT - you have a contract.

Solution looking for a problem right now. Except digital assets, which are worth... well, whatever some sucker pays for them technically, but...
 
again, history has shown protecting people from themselves doesn't work 🤷‍♂️
You say this as it's a fact. I can point to many times in history where intervention was needed because the scamming was getting good. Enron for example which was worth nothing but kept faking it until they made it. Pump and dump's are illegal because shortly after the legalization of stock buy back, you had a lot of people doing this. What's important about these examples is that NFT's and crypto both have Enron's and pump and dump qualities. Logan Paul was literally about to do a pump and dump while offering nothing of value.

ok, i await you solving no one ever being scammed again, can't wait to see it 👍
Less scamming is the goal, not none. It's impossible to stop stupid people from getting scammed, but we can stop the smart asses from profiting from it. More importantly we can punish the few and make examples out of them, to deter would be scammers.
edit: i'm sure it's right on the shelf next to 'communist utopia'
I can put that next to capitalism utopia, cause that's working well.
Regardless of anyone's personal opinion of the usefulness in NFT the "prediction" of it collapsing is not new.. it's basically been predicted to collapse since the start when bitcoin was worth $1 or $15000.
The situation is different now. It'll collapse because of the changes to proof of stake. That means NFT's and Bitcoin can't depend on the block chain anymore since it lost value without mining.
But the large drop shouldn't even be a surprise considering how much the fed interest rate has been increased. I read the market should bounce back around late Feb. Yay stock market shenanigans
Everyone complains about the Feds interest rate increase, but the reality is that it was nearly 0% since 2009. For a brief time period after 2016 the Fed started to increase it to barely 2%, and then dropped it back down to 0% when COVID started. Never is the history of finances has this been a thing, but because of 2008 the government dropped interest rates to induce inflation because 2008 created a massive deflation event. Which oddly enough 2008 was partly caused by dropping interest rates at the start of the year 2000 to nearly 1%, that and George Bush deregulation's. There's no bouncing back in Feb, as we should see the market drop. There's so much news of companies laying off people, poor sales, and stores closing down that the stock market has no business doing as well as it is. Even Bitcoin which recently had a resurgence has no business being worth $20k. The whole FTX and Binance hilarity somehow didn't deter people from investing in Bitcoin. The fact is there are market forces at work that don't want the market to decline but all they're doing is delaying the inevitable. The longer they delay the worse the drop will be.
 
I can send Tether or USDC to anyone in the world who has an internet connection, within minutes, coins supposedly backed 1:1 with the US dollar.

Brah....tether isn't backed by shit, its the sketchiest of all opaque crypto garbage, and serves as a dark pool of digital beanie babies that pumps all the other crypto ponzies. Those lying dip shits have been promising an audit for over 7 years, and all the gullible crypto bag holders consistently believe and defend them.

Receipts:

https://www.ft.com/content/4da3060c-8e1a-439f-a1d7-a6a4688ad6ca
https://www.ft.com/content/59849743-850a-4f67-8e78-fdc68651d2d4
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/17/technology/tether-stablecoin-cryptocurrency.html
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...-the-69-billion-backing-the-stablecoin-tether
https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/15...eading-statements-fiat-currency-bitfinex-cftc
https://protos.com/was-tether-at-the-center-of-sam-bankman-frieds-empire/
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-31/tether-bank-fraud-probe-gets-fresh-look-by-justice-department?leadSource=uverify wall

The eventual collapse of tether as a result of regulatory scrutiny will probably be the supernova which collapses the crypto industry. Its actually incredible that they have managed to exist for this long, but then again there are so many obvious scams in crypto that have managed to create a perception of legitimacy (mostly because of pure greed on the part of those who have marketed and endorsed them) that it is not really all that surprising.
 
Yes but I am talking about the more recent auditor BDO, the article only mention:

New auditors, no new transparency

In late 2021, Moore Cayman was purchased by MHA and the new auditor agreed to take on the role of providing assurances for Tether. This lasted for precisely two quarters before, in a desperate bid to utilize an auditor of some repute, Tether switched to BDO Italia — which it claimed was a top-five auditor. (BDO is a “top five” auditor, whatever that’s supposed to suggest, but its subsidiary BDO Italia definitely isn’t.)

Shortly after this, Paolo Ardoino joined Deirdre Bosa for yet another interview on CNBC. Again, it went poorly.


How did it went poorly, we do not know ? Those audit are now out since
 
You say this as it's a fact. I can point to many times in history where intervention was needed because the scamming was getting good. Enron for example which was worth nothing but kept faking it until they made it. Pump and dump's are illegal because shortly after the legalization of stock buy back, you had a lot of people doing this. What's important about these examples is that NFT's and crypto both have Enron's and pump and dump qualities. Logan Paul was literally about to do a pump and dump while offering nothing of value.

Not to mention FDA created to fight snake oil salesmen.

While there are some example of bad regulation, overwhelmingly regulation is positive and necessary, and where it is bad it shouldn't be eliminated, it should be fixed.

Unfortunately we live in a world with lots of scumbags who want no more than to take advantage of others for their own gain, and do notcarw if they are harmed.
 
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