WD Easystore 14TB External Harddrive $199

kirbyrj

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Yeah I think I got the 14TB one for $210 last time, so sub-$200 is a good deal if you can get in on it.
 

nyt

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grabbed 4 and a ds1618+. Going to run SHR2 and add another couple of drives next time there's a sale.
 

SamirD

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Well, this will be one way to shore up the economy, lol.

The business price of $180 brings a new Iow I beleive--$12.86/TB
 

t4keheart

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Are people cracking these to throw in a NAS or something? I never understood what kind of normie would spend a decent chunk of money on a single large capacity spinning drive, to put all of their data on
 

SamirD

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Demand is at least as disrupted as supply.
That was my thinking, and with many people's incomes dropping across the board, I think demand is going to drop behind even existing supply.
 

SamirD

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Are people cracking these to throw in a NAS or something? I never understood what kind of normie would spend a decent chunk of money on a single large capacity spinning drive, to put all of their data on
People do both. Personally, I use a pair of them in rotation for off-site backups. Quite cheap and well suited for this.
 

t4keheart

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People do both. Personally, I use a pair of them in rotation for off-site backups. Quite cheap and well suited for this.
I totally get it if you're buying 2+ of them. Just the fact that they market these large drives as back up solutions for people who don't know any better doesn't sit well with me. They should only be sold in qty of 2 or more lol
 

Hashiriya415

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Price is at $310 at best buy using that link. What's going on?
Would this be a good hard drive for having one attached to router as backup/media drive to access things. And another one in desktop for storage/media/ very light video editing.?
 

DogsofJune

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Price is at $310 at best buy using that link. What's going on?
Would this be a good hard drive for having one attached to router as backup/media drive to access things. And another one in desktop for storage/media/ very light video editing.?
Deal was over, 8TB still at $140 though
 

t4keheart

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Price is at $310 at best buy using that link. What's going on?
Would this be a good hard drive for having one attached to router as backup/media drive to access things. And another one in desktop for storage/media/ very light video editing.?

Not trying to be rude, but that question doesn't make any sense! It's a hard drive... it'll do just as well as any other physical spinning disk to store your data... though it's a single point of failure.

However, in most cases, performance sucks when using the usb port on your router as a storage solution. Look into buying a real NAS and connect it to your router with an ethernet cable.

The better solution, since you said you were interested in buying two, would be to build them into a mirrored RAID array (RAID 1) to protect against data loss. You can do this on your existing computer ( or bring up an unRAID or openNAS server). Remember RAID 1 is not a backup solution. The array will need to be re-built when a drive fails in order to access the data, that means buying another one. Or, buy a NAS (synology preferably) and load the 2 disks into that.
 

SamirD

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I totally get it if you're buying 2+ of them. Just the fact that they market these large drives as back up solutions for people who don't know any better doesn't sit well with me. They should only be sold in qty of 2 or more lol
Well, to be fair the drives that are in them are basically detuned enterprise class drives so the fear of losing data within a mere 2 years is low imo.

Those of us that have dealt with drive failures and data loss know the 3-2-1 rule is the best. Even a mirrored set of these drives doesn't mitigate a disaster.
 

SamirD

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Price is at $310 at best buy using that link. What's going on?
Would this be a good hard drive for having one attached to router as backup/media drive to access things. And another one in desktop for storage/media/ very light video editing.?
Yep, as long as the router could support the size. Desktop will support it for sure.
 

SamirD

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However, in most cases, performance sucks when using the usb port on your router as a storage solution. Look into buying a real NAS and connect it to your router with an ethernet cable.

The better solution, since you said you were interested in buying two, would be to build them into a mirrored RAID array (RAID 1) to protect against data loss. You can do this on your existing computer ( or bring up an unRAID or openNAS server). Remember RAID 1 is not a backup solution. The array will need to be re-built when a drive fails in order to access the data, that means buying another one. Or, buy a NAS (synology preferably) and load the 2 disks into that.
I have both esata and usb external drives. USB 3.0 are perfectly acceptable for performance use. The interface bandwidth is much higher than any conventional hard drive uses.

I would not recommend raid, even raid 1. Because you are forgetting about the 3rd point of failure--the raid controller. If the controller/software/etc goes kaput, you have to resort to some funky methods to recover the data if you're lucky enough to be using a nas that is that standard. I would instead use jbod and manually mirror the drives if that is what you want. Or better yet, leave one in the nas, and one out of it as an external drive that you keep manually mirrored. This way, a drive failure results in zero downtime no matter what happens.
 

t4keheart

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I have both esata and usb external drives. USB 3.0 are perfectly acceptable for performance use. The interface bandwidth is much higher than any conventional hard drive uses.

I would not recommend raid, even raid 1. Because you are forgetting about the 3rd point of failure--the raid controller. If the controller/software/etc goes kaput, you have to resort to some funky methods to recover the data if you're lucky enough to be using a nas that is that standard. I would instead use jbod and manually mirror the drives if that is what you want. Or better yet, leave one in the nas, and one out of it as an external drive that you keep manually mirrored. This way, a drive failure results in zero downtime no matter what happens.

different strokes for different folks man... how many times have you seen a raid controller die? I'm not saying that what you said has no merit, but if you wanna talk about low risk...
 

SamirD

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different strokes for different folks man... how many times have you seen a raid controller die? I'm not saying that what you said has no merit, but if you wanna talk about low risk...
It doesn't have to die, but if it even gets scrambled or can't find the raid config, your data can still be gone--even with raid1. I've seen this enough times to factor it in with any raid I build or work on. And I've been working with raid since the mid-1990s.
 

nyt

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It doesn't have to die, but if it even gets scrambled or can't find the raid config, your data can still be gone--even with raid1. I've seen this enough times to factor it in with any raid I build or work on. And I've been working with raid since the mid-1990s.

Then you're working with garbage controllers. Even linux md is quite reliable and avoids the 'black box' of a controller failure scenario all together.
 

SamirD

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Then you're working with garbage controllers. Even linux md is quite reliable and avoids the 'black box' of a controller failure scenario all together.
I highly doubt a controller that fails is garbage. That's like saying a drive that fails is garbage. o_O

And a failure doesn't have to be in the controller, but even in the cabling. Basically, if you get bit errors that scramble the raid configuration stored on the drives or controller even a perfectly working controller won't recognize it.

Linux md is very reliable and has the benefit of working between physical systems. But that is software raid, not hardware raid.
 

nyt

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I highly doubt a controller that fails is garbage. That's like saying a drive that fails is garbage. o_O

And a failure doesn't have to be in the controller, but even in the cabling. Basically, if you get bit errors that scramble the raid configuration stored on the drives or controller even a perfectly working controller won't recognize it.

Linux md is very reliable and has the benefit of working between physical systems. But that is software raid, not hardware raid.

I figured you were talking about controller software issues. If a controller fails, replace the controller, and generally all is well.

If there's a cable issue, there will be crc errors and the controller should report.



waiting for next sale to have some staggered spin up times for the last 2 drives to go into the 1618

G4IsZAW.png
 

SamirD

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I figured you were talking about controller software issues. If a controller fails, replace the controller, and generally all is well.

If there's a cable issue, there will be crc errors and the controller should report.



waiting for next sale to have some staggered spin up times for the last 2 drives to go into the 1618

View attachment 231734
Nah, there shouldn't be any issues with software unless it's the Intel 'fake-raid' which is a monster pita (I had to deal with this on a critical point of sale system and every 6 months it would say a drive failed even though it was fine).

How have you liked the shucked drives in that synology? I know they recommend better drives for the better units and people have had issues with the shucked drives about a year ago:
https://www.servethehome.com/wd-wd1...-external-backup-drive-review/#comment-464921
 

nyt

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Nah, there shouldn't be any issues with software unless it's the Intel 'fake-raid' which is a monster pita (I had to deal with this on a critical point of sale system and every 6 months it would say a drive failed even though it was fine).

How have you liked the shucked drives in that synology? I know they recommend better drives for the better units and people have had issues with the shucked drives about a year ago:
https://www.servethehome.com/wd-wd1...-external-backup-drive-review/#comment-464921

Nah I meant software issues like PEC controllers horking a raid and not being able to recover, but those fall into the garbage category.

They're still initializing. I don't think these have any trouble in the synology unit. It hasn't complained about anything yet
 

SamirD

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Nah I meant software issues like PEC controllers horking a raid and not being able to recover, but those fall into the garbage category.

They're still initializing. I don't think these have any trouble in the synology unit. It hasn't complained about anything yet
Gotcha. Good to know about the drives. I was wondering if things didn't change since the shucking started en force. Small firmware changes could definitely improve compatibility.
 

nyt

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Gotcha. Good to know about the drives. I was wondering if things didn't change since the shucking started en force. Small firmware changes could definitely improve compatibility.

bout 15tb on em so far, no complaints. The ds1618+ is nice, no issues with the drives, got sab, sonarr, and radarr running in containers on it. not going to hesitate to add 2 more when available.
 

Ducman69

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It doesn't have to die, but if it even gets scrambled or can't find the raid config, your data can still be gone--even with raid1. I've seen this enough times to factor it in with any raid I build or work on. And I've been working with raid since the mid-1990s.
Which was a problem in the mid-1990s, not with software raid today. Software raid used to be crap too, but times have changed, and we have to change with them.
 

SamirD

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Which was a problem in the mid-1990s, not with software raid today. Software raid used to be crap too, but times have changed, and we have to change with them.
Nope, still a problem today--ask anyone that's dealt with the Intel softraids. Nothing replaces a true hardware controller.
 

Ducman69

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Nope, still a problem today--ask anyone that's dealt with the Intel softraids. Nothing replaces a true hardware controller.
I'm talking about home users, they will be fine with software raid on their predominantly Windows 10 assets. CPU enhancements have rendered the need for hardware controllers moot for that application, and theoretically you might even see an insignificantly faster performance using software raid. There's no proprietary raid controller to die that you might have to replace some day, and if the computer dies you can put the drives in another computer and it will import them just fine.
 

DogsofJune

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Seriously, it was a post on a hard drive deal.... That’s as dead as the horse being beaten here
 

nyt

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Nope, still a problem today--ask anyone that's dealt with the Intel softraids. Nothing replaces a true hardware controller.

In my ~25 years of experience with raids, I've hard far less issues with true software raids. The only raids I've lost were from PEC controllers. I've had issues with hardware controllers locking up under heavy IO (3ware 9650) that took them months of troubleshooting and me fighting with them to convince them they had an issue. They replaced all of my cards with 9750s which did a lot better. Still never lost any data that way.

The intel stuff is a special kind of stupid. If you're running raid0 for example, and your bios resets and boots one of the drives, suddenly your raid is out of sync. That's the main flaw I've found with it, friggen pseudo hardware raid bullshit.
 

SamirD

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I'm talking about home users, they will be fine with software raid on their predominantly Windows 10 assets. CPU enhancements have rendered the need for hardware controllers moot for that application, and theoretically you might even see an insignificantly faster performance using software raid. There's no proprietary raid controller to die that you might have to replace some day, and if the computer dies you can put the drives in another computer and it will import them just fine.
Even on consumer systems, software raid really sucks, and brand interoperability is nearly zero so if you motherboard dies, it's a pita to get the drives to just plug in and work. Your motherboard basically becomes the 'raid controller' point of failure.
 

SamirD

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In my ~25 years of experience with raids, I've hard far less issues with true software raids. The only raids I've lost were from PEC controllers. I've had issues with hardware controllers locking up under heavy IO (3ware 9650) that took them months of troubleshooting and me fighting with them to convince them they had an issue. They replaced all of my cards with 9750s which did a lot better. Still never lost any data that way.

The intel stuff is a special kind of stupid. If you're running raid0 for example, and your bios resets and boots one of the drives, suddenly your raid is out of sync. That's the main flaw I've found with it, friggen pseudo hardware raid bullshit.
Yep, same here. Hardware stuff is a lot easier to deal with because it's usually pretty cut and dry like any other hardware.

The Intel raids are a special kind of torture. I actually have to deal with this in a $14k point of sale system. And every 6 months it kept failing out one of the drives even though the drive was good (replaced it anyways). And every month or so would indicate a raid error. :banghead:
 

Ducman69

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Even on consumer systems, software raid really sucks, and brand interoperability is nearly zero so if you motherboard dies, it's a pita to get the drives to just plug in and work. Your motherboard basically becomes the 'raid controller' point of failure.
You say it "really sucks" but in what way? Its braindead simple and easy to setup w/ the W10 GUI, the performance is in theory slightly faster than hardware raid (the low end found on mainstream consumer equipment) since you eliminate protocol transfers between Windows driver stack and the RAID card, and its motherboard agnostic. I've taken a W10 software RAID array and imported it into another computer without issues twice now. I have a feeling you haven't worked with windows software raid in quite a while.
 

mvmiller12

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Personally, I got 8 of those 8TB units at the beginining of this month and shucked them into a Dell PowerEdge R515 server using a PERC h700 in RAID-6. I performed a manual initialization which took about 1.5 days. I've got ~14TB used so far and no problems whatsoever, and performance is fantastic. All of the drivers where white label WD EMAZ drives.
 

CruisD64

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Are people cracking these to throw in a NAS or something? I never understood what kind of normie would spend a decent chunk of money on a single large capacity spinning drive, to put all of their data on

I bought one of these a while back and use it as a secondary backup to my ZFS cluster.
 
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