Watch For Mysterious Data Usage On Your iPhone

Flapjack said:
Trying to wade through the sarcasm... but if you're not being sarcastic, I've not heard of Apple sending info to the NSA. Saying that with a straight face would require the tinfoil hate phide keeps posting. Google is not much better. I'm hoping that their OS will be a little more transparent, though.
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It was sarcasm with a little mix of amusement. There's a vast difference between being watched by Big Brother, and being analyzed by Google, Apple and the rest of them to make for enjoyable or convenient web usage, whether to you or them.

It's absolutely no different from, say, going to the same McDonald's for lunch every day, buying the same sandwich everyday, and then one day you walk in and the server says "oh hi Mr. Flapjack. Big Mac, right?"

Take off your tinfoil hat.
 
phide said:
I can make several guesses: Browsing history, application analytics data, crash statistics, very likely some personal information used to identify me and/or location data. None of these concern me. Doesn't matter if it's Apple, Google, Microsoft, RIM, etc., etc.. I have nothing to hide, so why would I be concerned about not being hidden?
.
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I don't really have anything to hide. However, if it is the government, stay the hell out of my business. If it is a corporation, where's my cut? I don't work for free unless it is MY idea.

The amount of data people are seeing is WAY too huge to be simple text logs of anything in particular. I could see it being crash images of some sort, but location data, browsing history, etc. None of it should be more than a couple megabytes for your average daily activity.
 
Azhar said:
It was sarcasm with a little mix of amusement. There's a vast difference between being watched by Big Brother, and being analyzed by Google, Apple and the rest of them to make for enjoyable or convenient web usage, whether to you or them.

It's absolutely no different from, say, going to the same McDonald's for lunch every day, buying the same sandwich everyday, and then one day you walk in and the server says "oh hi Mr. Flapjack. Big Mac, right?"

Take off your tinfoil hat.
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I don't have on a tinfoil hat. This is not a conspiracy theory. Apple is doing something illegal, behind people's back. Any iPhone user should be able to ask what that data is, but you KNOW you'll never get a real answer.

Do you really think that's ok? Would it be ok if MS was sending data from your PC to the corporate HQ every night?
 
Flapjack said:
I don't have on a tinfoil hat. This is not a conspiracy theory. Apple is doing something illegal, behind people's back. Any iPhone user should be able to ask what that data is, but you KNOW you'll never get a real answer.

Do you really think that's ok? Would it be ok if MS was sending data from your PC to the corporate HQ every night?
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It's hard to tell if you're leading us on or if you're actually serious. Got proof or a link or something?
 
Azhar said:
It's hard to tell if you're leading us on or if you're actually serious. Got proof or a link or something?
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I'm not leading anyone on. I don't have any proof, just my story of what happened. It's happened to others. I am the only one who I've seen actually use a tool like Wireshark to see where the data is going. But there are plenty of others who are well aware that data is going out on a daily basis (this was a front page story, btw). If you have an iPhone and a home wireless network, try it yourself. Don't take my word for it. I don't have an iPhone... my fiancee does. See that much data go out to Apple servers each day was enough to cause her to rethink how she uses her cell phone.

If I had written down the two addresses, I'd post them. I don't remember right now. I'm pretty sure I posted on another forum more about it. I know I posted the question on XDA Developers (because they be some smart cookies), but they said I'd be better off going to an Apple forum. I figured the Apple forum would be full of people wearing rose-colored glasses, so I looked elsewhere.

I'll try and find the other thread I started so I can maybe find the addresses. I certainly don't feel like setting up Wireshark again. :rolleyes:

I just logged onto T-Mobile to check our data (which is where I originally noticed the +1MB transfers each morning) and it's still happening. My fiancee has disabled all "push" type services. She manually checks her mail now so that she can correlate the data usage on her phone with something she actually did. Keep in mind... we're on T-Mobile, not AT&T. T-Mobile has already confirmed (at a higher tier of tech support) that they're not doing anything on the phone. That was AT&T's excuse.
 
Flapjack said:
I'm not leading anyone on. I don't have any proof, just my story of what happened. It's happened to others. I am the only one who I've seen actually use a tool like Wireshark to see where the data is going. But there are plenty of others who are well aware that data is going out on a daily basis (this was a front page story, btw). If you have an iPhone and a home wireless network, try it yourself. Don't take my word for it. I don't have an iPhone... my fiancee does. See that much data go out to Apple servers each day was enough to cause her to rethink how she uses her cell phone.

If I had written down the two addresses, I'd post them. I don't remember right now. I'm pretty sure I posted on another forum more about it. I know I posted the question on XDA Developers (because they be some smart cookies), but they said I'd be better off going to an Apple forum. I figured the Apple forum would be full of people wearing rose-colored glasses, so I looked elsewhere.

I'll try and find the other thread I started so I can maybe find the addresses. I certainly don't feel like setting up Wireshark again. :rolleyes:

I just logged onto T-Mobile to check our data (which is where I originally noticed the +1MB transfers each morning) and it's still happening. My fiancee has disabled all "push" type services. She manually checks her mail now so that she can correlate the data usage on her phone with something she actually did. Keep in mind... we're on T-Mobile, not AT&T. T-Mobile has already confirmed (at a higher tier of tech support) that they're not doing anything on the phone. That was AT&T's excuse.
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I dont own an iphone and dont think i will ever buy one for various reasons, but couldnt the data thats being sent to apple, couldnt that just be firmware version scans, to see what firmware the phone has and to see if is needing updated to a new version ?

As everything nowadays seem to phonehome to somewhere for updates, so couldnt the mystery about this stolen bandwidth be just something innocuous like firmware updates and scans ?
 
Mayenard said:
Maybe not quite their HQ. It's purely speculation, but isn't it almost always when it comes to the NSA? :D
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You'd probably have to have spent some time in the government world to understand this relationship. Several agencies (NSA, DISA, etc...) work really closely with MS. This is because of national security. The majority of DoD computer systems run MS operating systems... it's just a fact of life. DISA and NSA work together to create what's called a STIG (security technical implementation guide) for just about every OS out there. It is a guideline for setting up software that is going to be used on a DoD network. If an enclave is not set up according to these STIGs, then it will not get an "Authority to Operate" or "ATO".

I work Information Assurance in the government and part of my job is to ensure the networks under my purview follow these, and other rules. NSA working with MS just means they're leaning forward on moving the DoD towards Windows 7 (a good thing). Right now, most of the DoD is still running Windows XP, with Vista right around the corner. Before this article, we were all thinking we'd have to wait another 5-10 years to run Windows 7. Seems even the gov't realizes Vista sucks...

EVIL-SCOTSMAN said:
I dont own an iphone and dont think i will ever buy one for various reasons, but couldnt the data thats being sent to apple, couldnt that just be firmware version scans, to see what firmware the phone has and to see if is needing updated to a new version ?
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I do not believe a simple query about a firmware version should be encrypted, but it's plausible. The only thing about this theory is that why would MBs of data need to go back to Apple to confirm this? Even so, it should not be done secretly, in the middle of the night, without the user's consent.

As everything nowadays seem to phonehome to somewhere for updates, so couldnt the mystery about this stolen bandwidth be just something innocuous like firmware updates and scans ?
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Yes, there is a lot of "phoning home" going around... but there's usually a way to disable it. Checking for updates is one thing. It's the software querying something online to see if there is a newer version (request for data from phone). What's happening with this nightly secret transfer is that the phone may be initiating the request (we don't really know), but it then sends out data to Apple. AFAIK, there is nothing in any agreement you sign or click on that says that this is ok or provides you the opportunity to "opt out" of it. That is the law. It started with the whole RealPlayer fiasco. Lawsuit 1 Lawsuit 2

Crucible1001 said:
I have and iphone and use Tmobile. This is why I canceled my data plan.
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Same with us (my fiancee, that is). We have T-Mobile and she's sticking with her iPhone... despite the sketchy transfers...
 
Flapjack said:
AFAIK, there is nothing in any agreement you sign or click on that says that this is ok or provides you the opportunity to "opt out" of it. That is the law.
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Then I suggest you file a lawsuit if you're as concerned as you appear to be.
 
Dude, it's probably a good collection of usage statistics (for anything pseudo-anonymous) that happens on the phone. General usage patterns, app usage, call durations, etc., the list is very long. It's purpose is pretty straightforward: improve the current phone and build better ones in the future. One example is measuring battery life against a bunch of those things. Can something be optimized? Can our scheduler be improved? Memory management? Will using a different form of RAM or flash storage help us? Another example is based on features. You'll easily find plenty of discussions of smartphone multitasking. But those talking can just be a relatively vocal minority of the total number of users of said phone. Apple may want to measure how people are using their apps, which of them are being used, for how long, etc, before concluding that implementing multitasking would even be worthwhile. Doesn't really apply now, but it's an example nonetheless.

The encryption part is obvious. Would you want any competitor intercepting and freely building better phones from your own stat collection? I also mentioned earlier "pseudo-anonymous" stats as I think it's inevitable that collecting some personal information can and probably does happen. Something must've driven Apple to improve the antenna design from the 3GS to the 4, after all. Maybe the signal strength over certain driving patterns measured by the built-in Map app was collected. But as benign as that sort of information may seem, wouldn't it be the responsible thing to do, encrypting it anyway?
 
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