Warranty Void if Removed Stickers are BS

[FrgMstr]

The Federal Trade Commission has just announced that those bothersome "Warranty Void if Removed" stickers carry with them little or no value when it comes to actually voiding your warranty if removed. So this all means that US Federal Law says you can fix your own stuff or have someone else fix it and the manufacturer still has to honor your warranty. This law has been around since 1975 when the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act went into effect.


The letters warn that FTC staff has concerns about the companies’ statements that consumers must use specified parts or service providers to keep their warranties intact. Unless warrantors provide the parts or services for free or receive a waiver from the FTC, such statements generally are prohibited by the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, a law that governs consumer product warranties. Similarly, such statements may be deceptive under the FTC Act.

Each company used different language, but here are examples of questionable provisions:

• This warranty does not apply if this product . . . has had the warranty seal on the [product] altered, defaced, or removed.

Now we just need to get the FTC to look into the NVIDIA GeForce Partner Program Impacting Consumer Choice. Oh look, here's the Consumer Response Center phone number! 877-382-4357 And the DOJ instructions on how to request a business review.

 

[Cantroy]

I wonder if that works for tractors, too, as they are basically all computerized nowadays. Have any of you seen the new tractors? Geesh, they out do my home pc. That being said, Nvidia needs to back the heck off... it is already down to just 2 players at this time, and I remember a time there were quite a few more than just AMD and Nvidia out there as serious choices... Had a few matrox cards back then, etc.. I even omg had a Cyrix PC once, but my 486/100 AMD smoked... Going to 8 megs of RAM was a HUGE upgrade.

Ok, get off my lawn...

 

[Deleted member 96510]

This is very interesting. I wonder if Apple and Samsung are among the group that received letters. Does this mean we are no longer tied to paying their fees for screen repair? It seems each phone I buy at some point costs me an extra $200-$300 because their fragile screens crack if you look at them too hard. Of course, in the interest of maintaining my warranty, I pay the manufacturer's bloated fee for a new screen. Maybe this opens the door to more legitimate and affordable phone repair outside of those mall kiosks.

 

[biggen]

This is all well and good but you are still going to be told by the vendor that, because you broke the seal, they won't fix it. If you want to fight them in court to fix a $100 PSU, then I'll let you die on that mountain alone.

 

[TheOne&OnlyZeke]

^ Just quote the following
"Your policy contravenes the magmamuckra ross schimmy act and you are wrong and I am right so fix this shit all up in this house my good man"

I'll allow anyone to use my legalize speaky talk sentence above when dealing with warranty claims

You are welcome

 

[Imhotep]

lol, on a more serious note. I really wonder if the review has been requested and if so will it gain any traction.

 

[SomeoneElse]

Problem is even if the law is in place companies will choose to let it go to court because the common person doesn't have the cash to pay for legal fees over a lesser value object. Companies pretty much skirt this crap because no one holds them accountable for it.

 

[LurkerLito]

Ultimately you will win if you have to take them to court to get your product fixed, question will be though is how much money and how long is that going to take you to win?

 

[Imhotep]

We all must edumicate ourselves so that we is better inform constunerz

https://www.bbb.org/consumer-complaints/file-a-complaint/get-started

 

[shspvr]

Thanks Kyle for that Phone number and the DOJ instructions LoL

 

[sfsuphysics]

says you can fix your own stuff or have someone else fix it and the manufacturer still has to honor your warranty.

So now manufacturers have to determine if their product failed when honoring the warranty or if your "fixing it" caused it to fail. I foresee warranties just going away as a result.

 

[matt167]

I wonder if John Deere was informed of this, sure would have liked to be a fly on the wall in that conversation

They have been on the wrong side of Magnuson Moss before.. But JD carries a cult following anyway. Many owners think John Deere needs JD oil, JD fluids, JD batteries and anything not JD is the devil. They get away with a lot due to the owners themselves.

 

[Spidey329]

Nice to see them make an official stance. I've been preaching this for years since I read about it. The Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act was put in place to stop the fuckery that companies are still trying to get away with.

The sticker is essentially there to scare the end user into complying. Some companies would likely even require you sue them, which is BS.

I wonder if that works for tractors, too, as they are basically all computerized nowadays.

The law covers vehicles. John Deere designs their systems to get around this law.

If I recall .. You can self repair a John Deere tractor, however, the software is protected by the DMCA. Only JD official service providers are allowed to flash the software (firmware spread throughout components), non-official rape-my-wallet parts do not have a "license" to use the firmware. If the OS detects an unofficial part, it'll not run. It's a sneaky way of getting around the laws by using multiple laws against each other.

They essentially took the BMW model of everything having a chip in it and paired it with the DRM model.

 

[oROEchimaru]

can this thread be stickied? seems like useful info

 

[/dev/null]

This is very interesting. I wonder if Apple and Samsung are among the group that received letters. Does this mean we are no longer tied to paying their fees for screen repair? It seems each phone I buy at some point costs me an extra $200-$300 because their fragile screens crack if you look at them too hard. Of course, in the interest of maintaining my warranty, I pay the manufacturer's bloated fee for a new screen. Maybe this opens the door to more legitimate and affordable phone repair outside of those mall kiosks.

You must be looking at it wrong...

 

[kju1]

This is very interesting. I wonder if Apple and Samsung are among the group that received letters. Does this mean we are no longer tied to paying their fees for screen repair? It seems each phone I buy at some point costs me an extra $200-$300 because their fragile screens crack if you look at them too hard. Of course, in the interest of maintaining my warranty, I pay the manufacturer's bloated fee for a new screen. Maybe this opens the door to more legitimate and affordable phone repair outside of those mall kiosks.

I have never cracked a screen. I have only cracked 1 screen protector ($10) and that was my dogs fault and sheer bad luck that it hit just right to even crack that. Perhaps you are doing something wrong?

 

[Aluminum]

They have been on the wrong side of Magnuson Moss before.. But JD carries a cult following anyway. Many owners think John Deere needs JD oil, JD fluids, JD batteries and anything not JD is the devil. They get away with a lot due to the owners themselves.

Talked to any lately? I know some born n bred "JD people" (like up to 3 generations deep now) that are fuming over how that industry has gone to total shit. The ones that didn't end up leaving the business that is.

 

[matt167]

Talked to any lately? I know some born n bred "JD people" (like up to 3 generations deep now) that are fuming over how that industry has gone to total shit. The ones that didn't end up leaving the business that is.

Yep, JD is loosing market share for larger tractors. Smaller tractors they seem to be gaining though and I talk to those owners all the time.. I have an older JD lawn tractor but parts are obtained for 1/2 cost on Amazon

 

[RogueTrip]

I always hated working on warranty items that have the sticker tampered with. Too many idiots messing around and might turn an easy fix into multiple problems and then lie to your face no one messed with it.

The stuff I've seen from the consumers is frightening.

 

[Draax]

So wait ... you mean I don't have to use a Teflon knife to remove them and then put them back on after I fiddle with the insides anymore?

 

[subspeed6]

 

[4saken]

Magnuson Moss is legit. Especially when it comes to warranty work on autos with mods. So many stories of folks going to the MFR after being denied warranty work at a dealership and coming out winning. ONly makes sense it should work for everything else.

 

[lostin3d]

Nice to see them make an official stance. I've been preaching this for years since I read about it. The Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act was put in place to stop the fuckery that companies are still trying to get away with.

The sticker is essentially there to scare the end user into complying. Some companies would likely even require you sue them, which is BS.




The law covers vehicles. John Deere designs their systems to get around this law.

If I recall .. You can self repair a John Deere tractor, however, the software is protected by the DMCA. Only JD official service providers are allowed to flash the software (firmware spread throughout components), non-official rape-my-wallet parts do not have a "license" to use the firmware. If the OS detects an unofficial part, it'll not run. It's a sneaky way of getting around the laws by using multiple laws against each other.

They essentially took the BMW model of everything having a chip in it and paired it with the DRM model.

Too true, have to add HP with their toner BS.

 

[lostin3d]

This also goes with what a tech at a local oil-change place told me. They said that if you had it in print from a dealership requiring a specific fluid(oil/antifreeze/etc) for the vehicle you could legally hold them accountable for reimbursement if going to a non-dealer(but ASE certified) technician for changing said fluids. Never done it since I really don't have the time for running back and forth across town to prove a point, but always wondered about it. Not sure how much of this I have exactly right, but that's the gist of it anyway.

 

[matt167]

This also goes with what a tech at a local oil-change place told me. They said that if you had it in print from a dealership requiring a specific fluid(oil/antifreeze/etc) for the vehicle you could legally hold them accountable for reimbursement if going to a non-dealer(but ASE certified) technician for changing said fluids. Never done it since I really don't have the time for running back and forth across town to prove a point, but always wondered about it. Not sure how much of this I have exactly right, but that's the gist of it anyway.

It's any product or service specifically required by the warranty to be completed by the manufacture ( dealer ) and/ or using OEM parts must be provided free of charge.. This is basically saying that if you don't use dealer oil and dealer filters, they would void your warranty but they cannot, so the use of aftermarket parts will not void warranty because manufactures are not in the market of free parts... This is why mfg's always allow outside shops to service and accept the warranties otherwise.

 

[Master_shake_]

I wonder if that works for tractors, too, as they are basically all computerized nowadays. Have any of you seen the new tractors? Geesh, they out do my home pc. That being said, Nvidia needs to back the heck off... it is already down to just 2 players at this time, and I remember a time there were quite a few more than just AMD and Nvidia out there as serious choices... Had a few matrox cards back then, etc.. I even omg had a Cyrix PC once, but my 486/100 AMD smoked... Going to 8 megs of RAM was a HUGE upgrade.

Ok, get off my lawn...

nope and here's why.

you could hack it and listen to pirated music on the radio and that is why you don't own your tractor.

 

[northwoodsf]

Sometime the cost and hassle of shipping to the manufacturer are enough to discourage me.

 

[BSmith]

They are not BS,...I am BS!!!

 

[kju1]

So wait ... you mean I don't have to use a Teflon knife to remove them and then put them back on after I fiddle with the insides anymore?

I never did. If I needed warranty service I just sent it in w/out the sticker. Never once was questioned about the lack of a sticker.

 

[MTDEW]

So then why aren't these "Warranty Void if Removed" stickers illegal?

 

[Master_shake_]

So then why aren't these "Warranty Void if Removed" stickers illegal?

Becuase they still ship them to countries that don't have the same act the us does.

 

[Draax]

I never did. If I needed warranty service I just sent it in w/out the sticker. Never once was questioned about the lack of a sticker.

My favorited “warranty void if seal broken” sticker was found on the bottom of my MSI gt70 laptop. They had one on the bottom cover for the HDDs. So apparently adding an SSD or HDD voided the warranty even though MSI advertised the ability to upgrade the laptop as a feature.

 

[Dead Parrot]

I wonder if that works for tractors, too, as they are basically all computerized nowadays. Have any of you seen the new tractors? Geesh, they out do my home pc. .....
Ok, get off my lawn...

Probably why the tractor companies are using the DMCA to keep people from repairing tractors they thought they owned. Why I bought the 60's era IH tractor with the 80 acres I bought. The thing barely has electricity. Electric start, glow plugs, a couple of lights. Now run while I mow my lawn without the aid of GPS.

 

[bman212121]

Probably why the tractor companies are using the DMCA to keep people from repairing tractors they thought they owned. Why I bought the 60's era IH tractor with the 80 acres I bought. The thing barely has electricity. Electric start, glow plugs, a couple of lights. Now run while I mow my lawn without the aid of GPS.

And you can get away with a 60's era tractor to run an 80 acre farm. I don't think you'd even attempt it if you had say 500 acres or more. Now move out of the way of my 90's era JD that still doesn't have a computer on board to lock me out of repairing it.

 

[HorseproofBacon]

Ultimately you will win if you have to take them to court to get your product fixed, question will be though is how much money and how long is that going to take you to win?

This could make it more expensive for the common man initially, but if/when he wins he can counter sue for damages and court costs costing him very little (relatively speaking, lawyer fees not withstanding) in the end and reimbursing him and he might even make out with some cash in the suit. All it would take is one person to decide to push the lawsuit and companies would realize it's cheaper for them to just stop voiding BS warranties.

 

[kju1]

This could make it more expensive for the common man initially, but if/when he wins he can counter sue for damages and court costs costing him very little (relatively speaking, lawyer fees not withstanding) in the end and reimbursing him and he might even make out with some cash in the suit. All it would take is one person to decide to push the lawsuit and companies would realize it's cheaper for them to just stop voiding BS warranties.

Since when do consumers ever win in lawsuits? Even in the big cases with class actions the most you'll see is some minuscule amount while the lawyers take most of the money. The only ones that win in lawsuits are the lawyers...