Warning: Windows 10 May Auto-Install On Your PC

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Putz

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had a few in the office, thankfully our software works with Win 10 but the users can function without classic shell, still shady on the forceful upgrades to add to their win10 count, id be curious how many of those upgrades were intentional and how many rolled back to 7
 
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Actually, that's part of the issue. I've un-installed that exact update, and microsoft just re-installs it, or renames it, and again it pops back up. So yea, it is an issue. And the more you ignore it, the more it bothers you, and now it shows, that you can't say no, it doesn't give you an option to say no, its now or later. You can still close the pop-up window, which is what I do, but now there is no saying no to the popup.

Out of curiosity, did you click hide file from Windows Update. I made that mistake on one of my techs diagnostic computers and it was reinstalled.
As far as them adding the install file to another update under a different name, does not surprise me. I have not seen that happen on any of our systems though. I have only seen it included with KB3035583.
 

UrielDagda

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I think it's because people have their computers set update when there is a new update. Sometimes the new "update" is to upgrade to Windows 10. You can tell it to hide it, but they'll push that update (I guess with a different number to get around the previous hiding) to ram it down your throat.. When I look at my "Hidden Updates" Windows 10 is on the list like, 7 times.
 

Ur_Mom

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People see the warning and think it's a standard update. So, they do it without really knowing what it is. Next morning, Windows 10 is there.

It's not a good tactic (my son's machine keep nagging him, but he hates Windows 10, so he keeps saying no), and it shouldn't be so naggy, IMO.

I didn't get to see it on my main machines, as I upgraded early and part of the Insiders program.

It's not 'automatic', but it is pretty shitty of a tactic to get people to upgrade with a click or two...
 

Mohonri

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I'm willing to believe that all these unintended installations are the result of PEBKAC errors.

That said, Microsoft is making it extremely easy to commit those errors. In fact, I would go so far as to say that they're making it hard *not* to make those errors.
 

heatlesssun

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I'm willing to believe that all these unintended installations are the result of PEBKAC errors.

That said, Microsoft is making it extremely easy to commit those errors. In fact, I would go so far as to say that they're making it hard *not* to make those errors.

You're probably right. For those that never want to do this upgrade, sure a one click never see it again approach is what they want. Then there's the folks that will upgrade, even if it was accidently and it's like nothing happened, they did the upgrade and everything is fine. That's probably the large majority of folks. So I can agree it's a shitty tactic if you don't want or like Windows 10 but most people don't care or even like Windows 10.
 

Dv8ted21

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I used to be heavily against 10, but I figured why fight it. I had driver issues initially, but got them resolved, and 10 runs like a champ.
 

leeleatherwood

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Everyone needs to bow down to their new Microsoft overlords!

Seriously, Windows 10 is great but I wouldn't want it automatically updating... or nagging me.
 

rezerekted

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People see the warning and think it's a standard update. So, they do it without really knowing what it is. Next morning, Windows 10 is there.

It's not a good tactic (my son's machine keep nagging him, but he hates Windows 10, so he keeps saying no), and it shouldn't be so naggy, IMO.

I didn't get to see it on my main machines, as I upgraded early and part of the Insiders program.

It's not 'automatic', but it is pretty shitty of a tactic to get people to upgrade with a click or two...

Tell your son to use these 2 tools to put Microsoft in its proper place.

Ultimate Outsider - Software Downloads
GWX Control Panel

Spybot Anti-Beacon for Windows
Spybot Anti-Beacon

I never get nagged to install Win10 on my 8.1 install because I use the above.
 

Mystique

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I'm not sure I like the notion of installing code like that that has no source code available. It's difficult to know what they packaged in with that.

For me, I can't wait until Linux becomes viable for what I'm trying to do. (Gaming, mostly). Then it's goodbye, Microsoft, not looking back. Fedora is already amazing, just doesn't support DirectX for obvious reasons. They're currently porting part of .NET to Linux, I just wish we had plan B. Because Microsoft won't stop making their product worse, and we know that now.
 

Flexion

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At first I thought it was a matter of my thumb resting on my thinkpad's trackpad while using the trackpoint and accidentally pressing one of the buttons on the windows 10 nag, but yes... This happened just a few days ago on a computer that I didn't want to install Win10 on just yet. What happened was it just automatically started closing my browser windows (luckily I wasn't being very productive that afternoon), then shutdown, then black screen with circle countdown saying preparing Windows 10 upgrade or something to that effect. 10-15 minutes later I was running Windows 10.

Apparently it's doing this if you have "automatic updates" enabled. For my main desktop I disabled automatic updates to stop it from happening without my consent. Really!!! I was never prompted, just kept ignoring the nag box for a few months on my work pc... then boom... win10 upgraded. XD

Was totally surprised and thought it was just a matter of my thinkpad x230 having its trackpad placed in a crappy spot. ROFL.
 

nessus

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How to manage Windows 10 notification and upgrade options

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3080351


Simple version:

Making a text file with the following, rename its extension to .reg and import it with the latest version of the Windows 10 upgrade update for your OS installed. Suppresses all messages and pop-ups. This has been available for months...

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\GWX]
"DisableGWX"=dword:00000001

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate]
"DisableOSUpgrade"=dword:00000001


I've done this on all the machines I have running Windows Media Center (Windows 7 and Windows 8.1), and my Dad's old Windows 7 laptop. Works as described in the Microsoft documentation.
Its not exactly an undocumented mystery...
 
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nutzo

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I have been putting off upgrading but last week I got up and my cat was sleeping on my keyboard and Windows 10 was installed except for the final setup. Either my cat successfully installed it or it auto installed.

I can see the commercial now...
Upgrade to Windows 10... So easy even a Cat can do it:)

Just goes to show that they made it to easy. I know 2 non technical people at work that accidently upgraded their home systems to Windows 10.
 

chaos4u

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I dont care if it is user initiated or not, the abhorrent spam that microsoft is using to get you to upgrade to windows 10 is just uncalled for. as many times as the pop up shows on the desktop, in your browser, and then to even go as far to nag you while browsing is unjustified.

The whole things boils down to this. Micorosft does not own your computer it is not leased from them nor do you rent the software . so microsoft dont get to do what they want with your pc.

but no, so many people dont see it this way they think microsoft should have free reign will nilly over your pc and do as the please with it . and if thats your belief go ahead and bend over for them.

but dont expect me to . because this machine is mine!, i paid for the os and the hard ware and if i dont want microsoft spam on my machine it is my right! !

these tactics that microsoft is using to get win10 on computers is frighteningly similar to malware tactics and to give them a free pass on this type of campaign is just down right shameful. So many people are weak minded and accepting of this overly aggressive campaign to move people to something they may not want, they refuse to see it for what it is. It takes advantage of people who may not be as keen with computers just like malware does.

again highlighting the point that these computers are not microsoft. and the whole win10 campaign is just down right sickening in its tactics to deploy the os to users. allowing this kind of precedence to stand is going to come back and bite us .

thankfully we do have alternatives and it wont take much more for me to jump ship and also start pushing the alternative instead of microsoft.


and please im so tired of everyone blaming the user . the software industry is such a cluster f*Ck of broken design and functionality and ever changing ui elements how can you reasonably expect people to reliably understand every thing presented to them on a computer screen?
 

nutzo

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How to manage Windows 10 notification and upgrade options

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3080351

Simple version:

Making a text file with the following, rename its extension to .reg and import it with the latest version of the Windows 10 upgrade update for your OS installed. Suppresses all messages and pop-ups. This has been available for months...

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\GWX]
"DisableGWX"=dword:00000001

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate]
"DisableOSUpgrade"=dword:00000001

I've done this on all the machines I have running Windows Media Center (Windows 7 and Windows 8.1), and my Dad's old Windows 7 laptop. Works as described in the Microsoft documentation.
Its not exactly an undocumented mystery...


And this is a prefect example of what Microsoft is doing wrong.
Requiring people to edit the registry to turn off the upgrade prompts is just nuts.
Especially since they could have simply added a button to turn off the prompts for 90 days, and after a couple tries, given the user the option to turn it off permanently.

It's not a big deal for someone in IT or techies, but that's like asking the average user to do brain surgery.
Even some of the more technical users at the office would be hesitant to follow the above directions, out of fear they would mess something up.
 

trparky

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Just when you thought that Microsoft couldn't go any lower, they get out their shovel and start digging to China.

Oh how I long for the days of Ballmer. Satya Nadella is ruining Microsoft.
 

nessus

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And this is a prefect example of what Microsoft is doing wrong.
Requiring people to edit the registry to turn off the upgrade prompts is just nuts.
Especially since they could have simply added a button to turn off the prompts for 90 days, and after a couple tries, given the user the option to turn it off permanently.

It's not a big deal for someone in IT or techies, but that's like asking the average user to do brain surgery.
Even some of the more technical users at the office would be hesitant to follow the above directions, out of fear they would mess something up.


I do agree with that sentiment wholeheartedly, but the amount of FUD being thrown about at what is required to avoid the upgrade is astounding. Like MS has never required at LEAST one licensing confirmation page on every piece of software they install...

MS should have, at the very least, included a link to the official management instructions in the end user interface and had a "Fixit" script on that page. No argument there.
 

mdburkey

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90% of the inadvertent upgrades I have seen have been due to someone clicking "yes" -- but, for average users, the install now/install later screen doesn't exactly scream "hit the X" to close rather than choosing one of the options.

I have run across one computer that got to this screen though and offered NO ability to close the screen -- there was no X and you couldn't right click on it in the task bar.
What was even weirder is it did NOT show up as a running application when you viewed it with Task Manager, and the only way to get it to go away was to stop the Windows Update service -- but it came back if we re-enabled it.

We went ahead and let this specific unit upgrade to Windows 10 (to go ahead and lock in the upgrade activation) and then rolled back to Windows 7.
Within 15 minutes of downgrading, the same uncloseable Windows 10 upgrade Now/Later screen came BACK again.

I then went in and disabled the Windows Update service, deleted the ~BT folders, manually deleted the GWX programs, added the appropriate Disable GWX and Disable OS Update registry entries, etc and then re-enabled the Update Service -- and the blasted message came right back again! So, we then disabled update, nuked the contents of the SoftwareDistribution folder, renabled the update service, and it hasn't shown back up since. This one was a REAL pain in the rear.
This was on a PC with Windows 8.1.

I have also seen at least two computers that installed Windows 10 overnight as part of an upgrade cycle with no apparent user invention.

On all PC's I have been deploying recently that had Win 7 or Win8.1 on them (and on all the ones that we have been setting up for customers), we have been going ahead and adding the appropriate keys to the registry first to block the upgrade -- and making it a point to pre-create the download and GWX folders and adding a DENY EVERYONE ACL setting to them "just-in-case" ( and doing the same with the registry keys once we create them). We have a simple script written to undo this operation in the future and run the Media Creator Tool automatically, in case a customer wants to do the upgrade in the future, but we are making sure that they don't get the nagging ads or accidentally upgrade. As most of them are Dr's offices, having them upgrade without validating all the Windows 10 privacy settings for HIPAA could have serious legal ramifications.
 

yee245

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We had one computer at my office update to Windows 10. Sure, the user might have clicked yes to allow it to upgrade, but what I was surprised by was the fact that the person was on a basic user account and does not have the admin password for the system/admin account (nor did anyone else who would have known the admin password know it had happened). The box that allows normal users to install updates was probably checked, but is it normal to allow installation of a new OS (and removal of the old one) without needing admin privileges?
 
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I have a Windows 7 box that's been prompting me to upgrade, but it hasn't done so automatically yet. In fact, back when I wanted to upgrade to Windows 10 on my other machines, I had sign up on Microsoft's website and download a utility manually, and then wait for them to tell me my update was ready. They've clearly made it a lot easier.

I'm leaving it running in order to see if it does update to Windows 10 without user input. I would be very surprised if it didn't at least make me accept the EULA. I'm thinking that either it's user error, or it's only happened to a few random people due to some kind of error on Microsoft's part. I'm sure they don't want this kind of publicity.

I suspect that they will stop offering the Windows 10 upgrade sometime in June, and then people who didn't upgrade will have to pay for it. I'm perfectly happy with Windows 10, and I think it's probably worth upgrading just to future proof yourself for DirectX 12. If you have two machines, just upgrade one and leave the other on 7.
 
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Zarathustra[H]

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Everyone saying its user error is correct.

I work in medical devices. If we design something with poor usability such that an end user can easily make a mistake and get a result they don't want - even if they disregarded our instructions in doing so - the FDA holds us responsible.

Blaming the end user for this is disingenuous, when Microsoft have intentionally designed this upgrade process such that it is accident prone and people wind up upgrading unintentionally.

It's intentional poor usability design, which allows them the excuse of saying "oh now, we don't force upgrades" while at the same time knowing that a lot of people are going to wind up with upgrades they don't want.

It really is shameful.
 

ShagnWagn

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I work in medical devices. If we design something with poor usability such that an end user can easily make a mistake and get a result they don't want - even if they disregarded our instructions in doing so - the FDA holds us responsible.

Blaming the end user for this is disingenuous, when Microsoft have intentionally designed this upgrade process such that it is accident prone and people wind up upgrading unintentionally.

It's intentional poor usability design, which allows them the excuse of saying "oh now, we don't force upgrades" while at the same time knowing that a lot of people are going to wind up with upgrades they don't want.

It really is shameful.

I agree. People are also yelling PEBCAK. What it REALLY is... It is Social engineering by Microsoft to push their malware install upgrade. If you are lucky, instead it is successful and not malware, but adware. :)
 

DocFaustus

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I do agree with that sentiment wholeheartedly, but the amount of FUD being thrown about at what is required to avoid the upgrade is astounding. Like MS has never required at LEAST one licensing confirmation page on every piece of software they install...

You are wrong about what you are calling FUD. The EULA screen does not appear until after the upgrade is complete.
 

ManofGod

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PEBCAK is a convenient explanation when its non-technically savvy people that are making the mistakes. When regular members of a technical forum are reporting the issue, it might just be a fucking problem.

Or it is both but then again, most folks seem to get the impression it must be either, or.
 

RanceJustice

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Seems Zarathustra has the right of it. Microsoft has become overly pushy about the Win10 upgrade, to the point that it turns off potential users. Back at the beginning during the "pre-order" phase it was at least opt-in, and those who took the several steps to register (ie clicking that they were interested, then appraising their system, then reserving the upgrade) were able to do so (another scheduling and active choice) when Win10 released - a perfectly reasonable update offering. However, since that time Microsoft has added all sorts of opportunities to push it onto users. Windows Updates, including "essential/security" tagged ones, started to add nags to upgrade to Win10. The process to upgrade was "smoothed" to the point it took less user action to do so, such as adding it into a Windows Update schedule! Now it has become basically automatic, where unless you specifically tell it not to do so, Win10 will select a time and begin the upgrade process! Its no wonder that users, technically apt and less so, are coming back to find that their PC upgraded over night if it requires a perfect series of clicks to defer (not reject, mind you) the process, confounded by its ability to encyst into other system maintenance tasks.

Microsoft has become their own worst enemy with Windows 10 , turning what should have been beneficial for both Microsoft and the users into a quagmire. A free upgrade should have been lauded, but the way Microsoft has handled any questions or issues from the userbase causes many to question or outright reject. Being pushy or making users feel that they were tricked, the upgrade just "happened" etc... rightfully makes people irritated. Furthermore, it encourages users to question why Microsoft is insisting on the upgrade so harshly. It may simply be that MS wants marketshare, to have a single platform to maintain/update, etc..but there is one other BIG issue which increases doubts about Win10 and Microsoft: Privacy. There are a multitude of completely justifiable questions with regards to user privacy. Win10 comes at a time when both gov't and corporate surveillance are through the roof and businesses don't much regard for user privacy, especially when there is money to be made. So the fact Win10 came with more "mobile-app" style programs which all report back (for both innocuous and perhaps less so reasons), lots of things that share/track/data-mine, new "privacy" defaults, and an overall paradigm shift to taking and monitoring a LOT more data than previous Windows versions, people are understandably frustrated. Worse, you can't turn off many of these features in the OS itself (and bigger issues, like how certain telemetry elements can be ostensibly switched off, but users recorded them still transmitting anyway - only the Enterprise version actually respects you setting it to off...without using a privacy tool/hack), and you lose certain features if you do. The mere presence of programs like DestroyWindowsSpying, W10Privacy, Spybot AntiBeacon, ShutUp10 and others are a significant reaction to the issue! Now compound this with the pushy "you're going to upgrade regardless if you like it or not", and things like backporting some of these additional spying/ "telemetry" elements to Win7 and 8/8.1 in so called updates and people who already are annoyed with Win10 begin to think Microsoft seems like a bad actor. What does MS do in reply to users objections? They basically say "nothing to see here, all is well!". This is critical, as if they appeared responsive to user input they could have turned it around, but in clear Microsoft fashion they basically doubled down on on stupid.

Underneath all this garbage and with a few adjustments, Windows 10 is not a bad OS and has some improvements over both 7 and 8.1,, but it is all contingent on Microsoft actually recognizing their approach is making their stated goals harder to achieve and they need to change, lest they give credence to the idea their "real" goals are far more surreptitious and outright user-hostile.
 

michalrz

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Now I have had at least a dozen reports on Win7 pro boxes either having Win10 one morning when they came in, or it is now saying "Install NOW or choose a time to install", with no option to simply not install.

This is happening at my job currently (even core 2 era machines). I've found that installing Office 2007 will prompt a question whether to 'use windows update for this too' which, if accidentally confirmed, turns 'give me recommended updates(...)' on in Windows Update.
The 'offer' is akin to a Soviet Russia joke, sort of like 'who do you admire the most and why is it Stalin'.
I won't say how I safeguard against this, truly sorry for this. But, MS, please be aware that if you do this, I'm out of work.
 

GilmourD

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PEBCAK is a convenient explanation when its non-technically savvy people that are making the mistakes. When regular members of a technical forum are reporting the issue, it might just be a fucking problem.
I'll be honest... My opinion of the species as a whole isn't very high, regardless of membership of a forum. :eek:
 

daglesj

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Currently fighting against the auto driver installs on older equipment for 10. Seems that older hardware Intel graphics drivers are patchy at best for 10 but older Win7 drivers work fine in 10. I've tried the Hardware manager "No to driver updates", the Registry hack, Group Policy Identity to stop drivers but none of them work. Windows update just slaps the new Intel driver on regardless.
 

nightfly

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How to manage Windows 10 notification and upgrade options

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3080351
Simple version:
Making a text file with the following, rename its extension to .reg and import it with the latest version of the Windows 10 upgrade update for your OS installed. Suppresses all messages and pop-ups. This has been available for months...
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\GWX]
"DisableGWX"=dword:00000001
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate]
"DisableOSUpgrade"=dword:00000001
I've done this on all the machines I have running Windows Media Center (Windows 7 and Windows 8.1), and my Dad's old Windows 7 laptop. Works as described in the Microsoft documentation.
Its not exactly an undocumented mystery...

I'm sure everyone here is able to do this. I'm also sure that out of all my friends and relatives, only Two are capable of doing this (and one is a girl who used to work in IT). The rest follow routine advice to rely on automatic upgrades to avoid 'vulnerabilities in their system'. Then they become vulnerable to Microsoft instead. Choose your poison, public. Either way, you lose. Gee, kind of like voting for an elected official.
 

Dekoth-E-

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Well, if the popup steals focus, just as you hit enter, and "upgrade to Windows 10" is the default action, and there is no "Are you sure" confirmation, I could see how this might happen.

This would be the first viable reason I've ever heard to "win 10 auto installs". It still doesn't make it an auto install, bu I could certainly understand people thinking so if this happened. That said I recently updated my wifes machine through the little nag prompt just to see since i had to do some work on her machine and had an image to roll back on. It required several prompts before it actually started installing and again this is a win 7 ultimate machine that has all updates to install automatically. There was nothing accidental at all about the process. I would point out that every single upgrade I've ever done on win 10 required 3 steps before it would start.
1) Start the install and Download
2) Agree to the EULA
3) Are you ready to install now? or Schedule for later?

The ONLY possible way for it to auto install is for the first two steps to have already been done, in which case you already essentially agreed so why are you surprised?

Edit: I should also note some interesting changes since the last time I installed it or at least differences between desktop and laptop that I discovered on this install.

1) There were far more toggles when it came to turning off auto reporting than I remember. There were just pages of crap that I was able to turn off.

2) I had the ability to turn cortana off. I'm not 100% certain what effect this had as the search bar is still named cortana, but it seems to just operate like a normal search bar the moment you use it.

3) All advertising type options when it came to search, edge (disabled anyhow), or apps were completely able to be toggled off.

So far the only difference between the current desktop version and my Win 7 sitting beside it is the tiles of the start menu, all of which are able to be turned off. It seems to have improved quite a bit since I installed on my laptop and basically every gripe I had has been resolved.
 
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FinalAura

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Ugh... this just happened to me. I was on windows 8.1.

I had Diablo 3 open at the time. Went afk for 20 mins and came back with the windows 10 installer at around 30% completion.

What the hell man. I'm pretty pissed right now. It's not even because I didn't want win10, but because of the action of installing itself like that on its own.

Meh.
 

ManofGod

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Ugh... this just happened to me. I was on windows 8.1.

I had Diablo 3 open at the time. Went afk for 20 mins and came back with the windows 10 installer at around 30% completion.

What the hell man. I'm pretty pissed right now. It's not even because I didn't want win10, but because of the action of installing itself like that on its own.

Meh.

Yeah, I would have been upset too if that had happened to me, even if I had warnings. That said, you must have a pretty fast machine for it to be at that point when you came back.
 

DarrisBard

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I'm happy with my windows 7 setup. I tried to get rid of the KB3035583 update and hide it etc. but it kept coming back. So then I had to switch off automatic updates even though it is easier to leave it on and now I have to remember to manually run windows update every so often. When I do run windows update Upgrade to 10 is checked but listed under the optional section. Why is it pre-checked?
 

ManofGod

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I'm happy with my windows 7 setup. I tried to get rid of the KB3035583 update and hide it etc. but it kept coming back. So then I had to switch off automatic updates even though it is easier to leave it on and now I have to remember to manually run windows update every so often. When I do run windows update Upgrade to 10 is checked but listed under the optional section. Why is it pre-checked?

Actually, I am rather surprised you are not already running GWX Control Panel. Since you are certain you do not want Windows 10 installed, that would be the best option for you, in my opinion.
 
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