Warning: Strong feels - Metal Gear

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by Ieldra, Apr 3, 2016.

  1. Ieldra

    Ieldra I Promise to RTFM

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  2. KazeoHin

    KazeoHin [H]ardness Supreme

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    Thanks?

    Did you enjoy MGS5? I LOVED it, but im soon learning that i am one of few...
     
  3. Ieldra

    Ieldra I Promise to RTFM

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    I absolutely loved MGSV. My favorite game in the series, possibly tied with Snake Eater, I honestly think all the people who didn't like it didn't get it :p
     
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  4. KazeoHin

    KazeoHin [H]ardness Supreme

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    I wouldn't accuse them of being ignorant, but I will say that a lot of people went into the game with certain unfair expectations. Not to mention the game is colossal in scope, well and truly worth every dime.
     
  5. Ieldra

    Ieldra I Promise to RTFM

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    I'm not saying they're ignorant, MSGSV, like Sons of Liberty, is very 'meta', it'll be a while before people accept it's more than just what you have at face value. Incredibly powerful game, I had ridiculously high expectations for this game, and saying it exceeded them is an understatement
     
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  6. RaZoRbLaDeD

    RaZoRbLaDeD Gawd

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    I absolutely loved the game as well, probably my favorite overall in 2015, I wish there had been more story / cutscenes and whatnot though, also some more variety in the missions.
     
  7. Ieldra

    Ieldra I Promise to RTFM

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    Meh, hostage rescue, sabotage, kidnapping, assassination and theft are pretty much all you can do in a stealth action game, I think it just gets boring once you've played it for so many hours

    It still kept my interest for 120~ hours it took me to finish (reach chapter 46), much longer than Witcher 3 did, W3 bored me at the outset and although it took me ~140 hours to finish, i finished it over four months :p
     
  8. twonunpackmule

    twonunpackmule [H]ard|Gawd

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    Sons of Liberty is just a bad game. I find a lot of people make excuses for it, but it is still a bad game. Raiden is a terrible character that should have been killed off. The only way Kojima could save that character was to make him a Grayfox clone. He still sucks in that department too. MGS4 is also pretty bad...once you notice it gets smaller each chapter. It's not terrible like Sons of Liberty, but it's not nearly as strong as it could be. The last level is a literal straight line. I find that Kojima doesn't want to actually make games. He wants to make movies.

    MGSV is an odd game. He is answering those that wished he make a game, but he also forgets what makes MGS special. Personally, the best game in the series is Solid. MGS 3 is okay, but it hasn't aged too well as the mechanics of the game bog it down. MGS4 did a lot to simplify those mechanics, but it didn't bring the game that MGS 3 was too the table.
     
  9. Ieldra

    Ieldra I Promise to RTFM

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    amazing how much we can disagree on this, I think MGSV embodies what makes MGS special the most, and the game in which the story actually center stage

    Metal Gear , as a series, has always had an anti-war message but this was rendered null by the sort of fetishization of war and it's accessories, in Phantom Pain the message is actually prevalent and while I did find Quiet's tits bouncing around in center stage annoying, i still appreciate the (perceived) meaning behind the character

    Awesome game imo, and as much as I resent not having Hayter, I have to admit jack bauer fits venom well
     
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  10. delita

    delita [H]ard|Gawd

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    Loved Sons of Liberty myself, probably my favorite in the series. Still on the fence about picking up TPP but man you do a good job at selling it.
     
  11. Ieldra

    Ieldra I Promise to RTFM

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    Worth every penny I actually pre-ordered and to my surprise it ran amazingly well at launch. Easily best game of 2015, game play wise it's the best mgs, story wise up there with mgs3, plot wise like mgs2

    The less expectations you have going in, the better it is, mgs5 is a masterpiece from every point of view

    Without spoiling anything, mgs5 is less understood than mgs2, contrary to popular belief the actual story is left ambiguous intentionally and this is a significant choice in the 'metanarrative'
     
  12. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Worst purchase of my gaming history.

    1. The patronizing hand holding prologue that got extremely annoying after about 20 seconds, but lasted for half an hour?
    2. Credits roll after each mission, with Kojima's name held out just a while longer, no the guy is not an egoist at all.
    3. It is supposed to be a stealth game, but there is no point to all the stealth elements when the game is so easy, that you can wipe out anyone that gets in your way without breaking a sweat. Even if you're completely careless the only way you can die is if you actively play to fail.
    4. The cover system, the horse mechanics, the driving, even the gunplay all feel completely unpolished and dated. Like everything apart from the graphics is from a 10+ years old game.
    5. Everything this game does Mercenaries II did much better.
    6. The worst thing is the constant patronizing by the game. You can't have an ounce of free will, the game won't let you, it makes you do everything in a certain way even if you don't want to.
    7. And the controls, that are different only for the sake of being different. Because I'M KOJIMA SAN, I know better than those lowly other game designers, that use the same control scheme for stealth shooters that worked in every game released in the last 2 decades.
    8. And the metaphysical crap no promo material warned me about. I was expecting a realistic stealth game, ala splinter cell. Instead I get rocketboosted scarecrow, fire golem, and shadow soldiers making horse noises.
     
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  13. Ieldra

    Ieldra I Promise to RTFM

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    Makes sense if you've never played MG
     
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  14. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I played the first. Altough that has no impact on my views on MGSV as I can't remember a damn thing about it apart from playing it. I don't even remember if it was on PSX or PC, or a PSX emulator on the PC.
     
  15. Ieldra

    Ieldra I Promise to RTFM

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    Yeah, I'm saying makes sense for someone who isnt really following the overarching story, must seem like a weird mix of random shit

    Gameplay wise however, I challenge you to name a better stealth action game, this Gameplay is flawless, it's easy true, but you can always limit your use of Fulton and deliveries.

    You can also download a difficulty mod, increase visual range on npcs
     
  16. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Basically any Crytek FarCry/Crysis on realistic difficulty is a better stealth action game than this. Plus the already mentioned splinter cell series, even the more action oriented ones, but mostly Chaos Theory which is imo the best in the series. Also DeusEx, and even HR, which to me in comparison to the original was a let down. And I'd metion another game, that I only have some vague memory of therefore I can't remember it's name.
     
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  17. Ieldra

    Ieldra I Promise to RTFM

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    Crysis and Far Cry are stealth action games?

    Okay then
     
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  18. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    If you play on realistic difficulty then they're the best stealth action games. Which is not readily apparent if you only tried them low difficulty shoot em up style.

    Why do you need to bring this condescending attitude into a civil discussion?

    Just because you don't consider those stealth games, that doesn't mean you get a free pass on the others I listed.
     
  19. Ieldra

    Ieldra I Promise to RTFM

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    I don't intend to be condescending, you claimed metal gear is essentially a turd in nice clothes, so I asked you to name a better stealth action game from a gameplay perspective... You named Crysis and Far Cry.

    Splinter Cell is/was a stealth action game.
    FarCry and Crysis are not.

    When you cite them as examples of better stealth games I don't know how to respond

    Have you ever completed an objective accidentally with horse poop?
     
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  20. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Playing FarCry on Crysis on realistic involves a lot of stealth. And I've had much better experiences with them as stealth games, compared to MGSV. You don't have to agree, but whether they're stealth games or not is not up for debate on my part.

    In MGSV you can walk up to the enemy and shoot them in the face from 2feet, and nothing happens. You can walk trough hails of bullets as 3-4 soldiers are shooting at you still you're not phased. That defeats any and all purpose of stealth there is. While in the Crytek games you actually have to be stealthy and always spot the enemies before they spot you, and take them one by one from cover or by sneaking up on them, instead of head on. That is quintessentially what a stealth game is supposed to be about. I don't care that it was never advertised as a stealth game, and MGSV is advertised as a stealth game. It's my experience with the games that matter, nothing else when I rank them.

    I don't have any idea what you're referring to in the last sentence.
     
  21. Ieldra

    Ieldra I Promise to RTFM

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    You can complete your objectives with a tank if you're so inclined, the brilliance of TPP is how the mechanics mesh together; everything from the fluidity of character movement to the arsenal at your disposal meshes together to act as a bedrock for your stealth pursuits.


    You say you can run around shooting people in the face, well so what, you're choosing not to play stealthy.

    No other stealth game can match the fluidity and the spontaneity in decision making TPP has, you just don't like the game and that's fine, but calling it a terrible stealth game and citing Crysis amd FarCry examples of better stealth mechanics is facetious
     
  22. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    That's exactly my point. If you can choose to ignore stealthiness, then it is not a stealth game. Or a terrible stealth game. If you can ignore economics in an economy based strategy game what does that say about the game?

    And what you're referring to on how you can complete objectives in multiple ways I already mentioned that Mercenaries II did that much better. MGSV is only a weak afterthought to me after playing Mercenaries II. Yes graphically MGSV is much better, that's a given because of the age difference, but the freedom of choice doesn't even compare.

    That's why I'm calling it a terrible stealth game, and that's why it's only a mediocre partially open world shooter.
     
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  23. Ieldra

    Ieldra I Promise to RTFM

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    Agree to disagree
     
  24. bildad

    bildad Gawd

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    The story was thin, stupid and cringe-worthy in most respects, but the gameplay was fantastic. That part I really enjoyed.
     
  25. JayteeBates

    JayteeBates [H]ard|Poof

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    I enjoyed playing it. Gameplay 9/10. Story 7/10 until the end of chapter 1. 3/10 thereafter as it seemed disjointed and rushed.
     
  26. Ieldra

    Ieldra I Promise to RTFM

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    I disagree, Chapter 2 was the star of the show, I don't think it was meant to leave you with any sense of closure
     
  27. Ieldra

    Ieldra I Promise to RTFM

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    WARNING: BIG FUCKING SPOILERS

    To me, this was the first truly anti-war MGS. While the others showed tragedies of war, they still were stuctured around giving players a sense of triumph or victory, even if the story doesn't end well for the main character, on the meta level the player still won. In MGSV, both TPP and GZ, this standard feature of game design was simply thrown out.

    Chapter 2 best shows this. Let's go over what happens in Chapter 2.

    32 To Know Too Much: After the mission you find out a child died on base. It's implied Eli killed him.

    35 Cursed Legacy: You find out you didn't at all stop XOF, and they're operating just fine

    38 Extraordinary: You find out your big bad enemies Volgin/Mantis were just helpless test subjects under the control of others

    40: Proxy War Without End: The final standard mission pretty well sums up the game and its themes. Just a cycle of violence and revenge without purpose or end.

    43 Shining Lights Even in Death: You find out you actually didn't stop the parasites and you are forced to kill your own defenseless soldiers.

    45 A Quiet Exit: Quiet is forced to sacrifice herself for you and leave, presumably to die.

    Eli escapes: Eli takes the children you saved, and the mech you defeated and leaves you. Mantis leaves too.

    Huey Trial: Huey is exiled from Mother Base

    46 The Man Who Sold the World: It all abruptly ends with you realizing you're nothing but a proxy yourself, fighting battles on behalf of greater demons. You realize you've been lied to, you realize you're being sent to die by the man you saved, and you see yourself for the demon you are. You're just a tool of war, with no past and no future, who will be erased from history.

    Chapter 2 completely demolishes any sense of triumph you could have from Chapter 1. Sally/XOF/Zero/Parasites are all still out there at the end of the game. And everyone you save throughout Chapter 1 is gone (Eli, children, Quiet, Huey). Nothing was accomplished except for killing a rogue XO who betrayed Zero.

    Pain is the theme. And pain is all you're given in Chapter 2. No revenge or violence will ever end the pain, the cycle just continues.

    If they were to have given it a triumphant ending, it would have betrayed the message of the game. Kojima was very bold here because it would be easy to just pander to people's expectations. Instead, the focus isn't on the evil or the good of what you did, but the emptiness.

    I still contend this is the least understood, least appreciated, game of the series
     
  28. JayteeBates

    JayteeBates [H]ard|Poof

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    Maybe it was after two. But I remember it going from somewhat solid to complete b.s. at a chapter point.
     
  29. Ieldra

    Ieldra I Promise to RTFM

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    Maybe you were focusing on the wrong story elements, Chapter 2 is a very sneaky sneaky chapter