Warhammer 40K: Dawn of War II - Beta

Damn, I can't wait until the 28th for open beta...sounds like 40K tabletop :)

Dark Prodigy, you a TT player?
Crackbone?

Just wondering if either of you have that experience and can evaluate on that basis rather than DoW.
 
It's grown on me the more I play. I didn't like it at first, but now that I'm getting the hang of it I'm really starting to like the quick and fast pace nature of the game. Plus the effects are really awesome! Looking forward to playing all the other maps when the game is released.

I've been pretty much focused on the Tyranids. I really want to master them.
 
mope54 said:
Damn, I can't wait until the 28th for open beta...sounds like 40K tabletop :)

Dark Prodigy, you a TT player?
Crackbone?

Just wondering if either of you have that experience and can evaluate on that basis rather than DoW.
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I've been playing TT for a long time. Both 40k and Warhammer Fantasy battle are loves of mine, and I can say, while not perfect, DoW2 is alot closer to the TT than the original. Now, sure, there are a few things they changed so as not to throw the game out of balance, but by in large, it's really close.

And in all fairness, it's closer to a RTT than a RTS(in the traditional sense). Econ is moved further out of focus for actual frontline tactics. IMO, it's a much better game than the first, because it's less spam, less unit redundancy and more about actual combat.
 
downloading my beta of DoW right now

but from what i've read in this thread, i'm not too excited.
 
still trying to get it to run, the bullshit games for windows live is aggravating the fuck outta me. use existing account never downloads the profile, make a new account and it sees the original, am i going to have to make a new hotmail just to play it. thought maybe the firewall was it, but so far seems to not help when i shut it off, i allowed all the requests it gave me.
 
crackbone said:
Sure there is. It's called real tactics, not unit spam. It's not about chopping wood or dropping buildings. It's about outmaneuvering your opponent, using cover, etc.
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Wrong. Its about ALL those things. Warfare is HECTIC and its supposed to be. You call it 'spam'..I (and the rest of DoW true fans) call it firepower, surpression and all out tactical might. If you're being spammed find your sorry ass a way to DEFEAT it and not whine. You act like you couldn't outflank and outmaneuver in the original (if you ever really played it). Adding tactical cover in ADDITION to those things would have been great. The ability to build bases and hold fortified positions as to deter the enemy is called campaigning and strategy.


40k is based on small unit skirmishes, I see no deviation from that in this game. You want epic battles? Talk to a RTS dev about doing something with the Epic 40k license. Relic captured the essence of 40k universe perfectly, and they actually added additional tactical elements. Bravo.
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DoW original lore is based on CAMPAIGNING with small skirmishes in between. The interaction between factions and alliances, the fanatical zealots of mankind devoted to a God-Emporer and those that seek to wipe them out. That's not 'skirmishing'. Its supposed to be a galaxy wide conflict. I have yet to see a 'skirmish' win a war.

The DoW universe is filled with fanaticism, strife, traitorous factions (chaos) and pure zealotry of evil BASED in Gothic lore. Holiness, relics and soul corruption has been totally dismissed in DoW II. Its something you don't quite understand as you suck off CoH gameplay and whine about spam and base building. Have you even played a DoW I game or read a book in the Warhammer Universe..the table top? I doubt it. If you want CoH so badly..go play it.


The Heroes are definitely an element of 40k. Furthermore, no, this isn't WoW, nor is it WC3. The heroes alone will get raped. However, they add additional tactical and strategic options for the player.
How long have you been playing Relic RTS? They've been heading this route for a long time. They started down the path with DOW. The refined it with CoH, and now DoW2 is just an extension of that.
They make RTS/RTT that actually focuses on where your troops are positioned , how you outmaneuver your opponent, etc.
Look, you want unit spam? You want more traditional RTS? That's fine, SC2 is probably for you. However, personally, I enjoy having to actually out think my opponent(s) rather than spam 3000 of IMBA unit.
Every unit is viable, every unit contributes to the battle, combined arms are key.
I say again, Brilliant.
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Heroes are supposed to add tactical and strategic options..but doing it while leading a squad of their own AND (once again you don't know what Warhammer is about) providing intangibles such as faith, morale and protection..as in DoW I.
I've been playing RTS' for quite some time. You have to think to be able to be even a half ass decent player when playing real RTS'. Everyone who uses simple brute force tactics gets their asses kicked swiftly and wonder why they lose so much. Situational awareness, keen defensive vigilance, and inexorbant multitasking are key to being successful in ANY RTS, last time I checked it required some sort of brain.

If you want a chess match, go play chess or some turn based strat such as in the Civilization series its definitely misplaced in DoW lore.
 
After my first game of DoW2 I felt just like Dark Prodigy does. I really did not like they way game played and it just felt wrong. However, I have played a dozen games since then and it has grown on me with each match. Now, that’s not to say that I still don’t have problems with it, as I do, but it’s not really as bad as lead myself to believe. I think the main problem is that it plays so much differently than the original. I really don’t like the “Circle of War” aspect (constantly having to recapture points over and over), but I’m sure that is something that will be fixed or tweaked over time. For those of you that aren’t liking it, I say give it some more time. Remember, this is a beta of a new play style and play mechanics will change over time (just look at all of the changes the original has gone through).

Mope54, yes, this is much closer to TT 40K then the original. I’ve been playing 40K since Rogue Trader (playing White Scars in 5th ed now). This IS about as close as you are going to get to TT 40K. However, I do think it missing some of the spirit of 40K.
 
Dark Prodigy said:
Only for people that aren't fans of the original and like CoH. There's nothing about this game that blows jack out of the water.
no squad reinforcements, attachable heroes/leaders, campaign, passionate voice acting, units are stupidly expensive..
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I, for one, loved DoW1 and am having a great time with DoW2 as well.

Anyway, to clear up some apparent misconceptions;
- there are squad reinforcements
- you can still attach sergeants to squads
- there is an actual campaign (and not one of the lame "capture the planet" campaigns ala DC or SS)
- many of the original voice actors appear to have been brought back for DoW2

I can't really fathom what you mean by 'units are stupidly expensive.' Resources aren't exactly handled in the same way as DoW, nor is the rate of gain the same, so I can't see how the assessment applies. Most units are actually relatively cheap until you hit T3, possibly barring tac squads, although they do fairly well for their price in the scheme of things.
 
PoweredBySoy said:
I'm already sick of your posts.
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Then don't fucking read them.

Diesel_Power said:
Dark Prodigy you act like someone just insulted your mother.
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Why would I care if some jackhole online insulted my mother?



Hauki said:
I, for one, loved DoW1 and am having a great time with DoW2 as well.

Anyway, to clear up some apparent misconceptions;
- there are squad reinforcements
- you can still attach sergeants to squads
- there is an actual campaign (and not one of the lame "capture the planet" campaigns ala DC or SS)
- many of the original voice actors appear to have been brought back for DoW2

I can't really fathom what you mean by 'units are stupidly expensive.' Resources aren't exactly handled in the same way as DoW, nor is the rate of gain the same, so I can't see how the assessment applies. Most units are actually relatively cheap until you hit T3, possibly barring tac squads, although they do fairly well for their price in the scheme of things.
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I mentioned those things in direct comparison to DoW.
-And no there is NOT squad reinforcement to the degree of DoW. You get 1 guy. That's not reinforcements to me.
-I know you can attach seargants... I specifically said Heroes. The ability to attach heroes and special units such as the chaplain, librarian and apothecary was highly valuable..inspiring aura, word of the emporer and health regeneration come to mind. No gothicism like in the first.
-You can't have campaign warfare with skirmishes.
- The fanatical war cries of special units and troops are missing from this game. Very 'canned' responses. It has no passion. That's what I'm talking about specifically.
-There has been many complaints over unit and squad costs. Scan through some of the official DoW2 forums. Though I understand the dynamics of resources & costs are different in this game.


Let me set something straight. If I was initially being introduced to the 40k Universe with DoW2 I would friggin love it. As a stand alone game its not bad at all. Since I'm a long time player and fan of the series, it pains me that the essence of the game is not captured in DoW2. I simply didn't enjoy Company of Heroes. With that said I'm STILL playing it...about 20 hrs so far. I want to like this game very badly so I won't simply give up on it yet. I'm actually trying to let go of DoW I so I can enjoy this game. Time will tell if it works and if this game gets my money.
 
Consider this your one and only warning for this thread. Chill out.
 
If anyone has a beta key or sign in they no longer want, please pass it along, I'd like to give it a shot :D
 
i LOVE how the beta complains that my virtual memory isn't enough. I HAVE 4 GIGS OF RAM. USE IT :p
 
You've already played 20 hours prodigy? Maybe you're so cranky because you're not getting enough sleep.

I've been playing RTS games since Dune 2, and this game is genuinely trying to be something new and different. Time will tell, but right now I'm loving all of its design features. It reminds me of Myth 2 actually, where you carefully picked your small army and then carefully managed every piece of it. Every unit feels like it fills a particular niche, and taking a loss is painful.

The only thing I don't like about the game so far is Tyranids. They're too neat and shiny for insect aliens, and yet not as funky as the other races. I'm afraid starcraft executed them better. When it comes to marines vs orks though, I can't get enough of this game.
 
Alright I just played a game that led me to have a complete change of heart or this game. I LOVE IT! I just had a fun game of 1vs1 against a Space Marine player. I was Tyranids. He beat me down the first time. But even though I lost I still had fun. Watching his dreadnought mow down a group of Tyranids I sent charging at it was awesome. Even though it sucked for me.

We played a second game and I smoked him because I didn't dick around for the first couple of minutes. Plus I discovered the usefulness of ripper swarms. At one point during the game we were fighting for the central CP and he had an apothecary with two heavy bolter squads. They were doing a good job of mowing my men down, but thats when I realized one of the squads stopped firing because they were engaged with one of my ripper swarms. So realizing ripper swarms did practically no damage but were good distractions I sent my second swarm to attack the second marine squad. This left the apothecary alone with no fire support. So my lictor ran up to him and fired its needles. He hooked the apothecary and yanked him back towards the Lictor and tyranid swarm. Watching the apothecary fall dead smack in the middle of my Tyranid swarm and seeing him just get consumed and mauled was soo much fun.

yeah theres no base building. This game is all about keeping your eyes on your troops and the battlefield. USE THE F1 KEY A LOT! It helped me out a lot. I played both of these game in less than an hour and I think i actually really liked the fast paced nature of it all.
 
seems to be a router issue, if i connect through the modem i can play, but not through the router, my roommate has no special port setup and he can play fine, my machine set the same way cannot connect and sign in. not getting a error message either, firewall and anti virus made no difference on or off. its aggravating as hell
 
DOW2 is growing on me more and more. It really helps to understand the new mechanics of squad cover and suppression. Does DOW2 remind anybody of Waecraft3? The rpg part I mean.

The only concern I have for the game is the new distribution they have for the game. Relic openly admit they screwed up on DOW with the way they went about patching and expansion packs. I am hopeful they do something refreshing with DLC.

Also, you can watch your replays in the beta: http://www.gamereplays.org/dawnofwa...=dawn-of-war-2-beta-how-to-watch-replays&home
 
I've been playing some tonight and I'm really enjoying it. For some reason I really like the Eldar, for better or for worse heh. The only faction I'm really meh on is Space Marines.

If anyone wants to invite me knock yourself out. I'm probably going to be playing a decent amount this weekend.
 
I'm really enjoying it despite the fact that I am patently horrible at it.

Question to other beta participants: Is there any documentation on how the interface works and the available commands? Once I get into a game I struggle massively with the available options....it is soooo different from DoW1.
 
Really enjoying this as well. 3v3 with skilled players on your team is a very rewarding experience.
 
Opie said:
I'm really enjoying it despite the fact that I am patently horrible at it.

Question to other beta participants: Is there any documentation on how the interface works and the available commands? Once I get into a game I struggle massively with the available options....it is soooo different from DoW1.
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I haven't seen any documentation. The best way I've found is just firing up a custom game and throwing in an easy or normal CPU player in. (Even being brand spanking new to the game, the easy computer was a pushover, as is the normal and hard after a game or two, does anyone ever really find any challenge in these difficulty levels? I can't imagine it.) Just grab whichever faction and hero you're going to go with, and take your time to read the tooltips in the no pressure environment.

I'm still getting used to the layout, but so far it seems pretty straightforward once you sit down and take a moment to look at it. I presume you're referring to all the unit upgrades, abilities, other commands, and then "doctrine" abilities?

All the basic commands are in the very bottom right for each unit. With the retreat (X) and the attack (A) being the ones I use the most, I quickly forgot they were there in preference of using hotkeys. On the left side of the bottom right corner, you have the unit upgrades. For most units it will only have one or two upgrades available, they will be located here. For heroes which have many upgrades available, there will be a plethora of buttons there, which is where it got confusing at first for me. Each column indicates an upgrade for the slot above, so you can fill each of the three slots with one of the upgrades below it. You can get multiple upgrades in the same column, but will have to switch between them, you will be unable to use them simultaneously.

As for unit abilities, those are right above the unit portrait and info, Usually have a hotkey associated for them. Above those with the hotkeys of F2-F5 are the "doctrine" abilities. This is coming from a CoH player perspective so that's what I'll call em.

As for the interface, still working on that one, trying to figure out good ways to select a group of squads and single out one unit. I was able to do this in CoH by just "tabbing" through the units I had selected. It doesn't seem to work here, but having each squad automatically assigned to a hotkey when they are built really helps eliminate that. Especially the unit portrait being associated with the hotkey so you will always know which one will select what.

Just try a few games and get the hang of it. Then get into the MP goodness.
 
Thanks, FrozenLiquidity!

I'll definitely give the CPU battles a go before I go MP again.
 
I've just read through this entire thread and I think I feel similiar to most people here that end up liking this game. I hated it at first and almost completely stopped playing the beta (after 2 games). I had zero clue WTF I was suppose to do when I played those first few games - I was like, how do I build turrets and cap my points?!?!?!?!! Where are all my builder units???.

The day after, I decided to give it another go around and told myself, I would wipe out all I know about the first DoW game and play DoW 2 as a completely new game - because that really is what DoW 2 is, a completely new experience/game. This game is like some good creeper mary jane, it will hit you without you realizing it. The more you play, the more you will like it. Honestly it's pretty cool, the units now have special abilities that they didn't have in the first DoW (i.e. Guardian squads can put up energy shields anywhere on the map for cover).

Give it some time people, you will see how good this game is on it's own merits. Forget about DoW 1 and play this game and see it for what it is.

Please feel free to invite me to battle you if you want to post some wins on your record as I am the suxxors. You'll probably beat me as my record is like 0 for 10. My tag is Nearsite and I'm on from 8-11 pst.
 
Nearsite said:
.
wipe out all I know about the first DoW game and play DoW 2 as a completely new game - because that really is what DoW 2 is, a completely new experience/game.

Forget about DoW 1 and play this game and see it for what it is.
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This is what I had to do EXACTLY. For me to get any ounce of satisfaction out of this game, I had to completely relinquish any previous DoW I experiences (many many hours of playing my favorite RTS). The game is terriffic as a stand alone game..absolutely nothing wrong with it (as I've stated in previous posts).

Its only when you try to connect DoW 1 and DoW 2 play styles and overall dynamics together is what turned alot of people off..myself included.
 
Dark Prodigy said:
This is what I had to do EXACTLY. For me to get any ounce of satisfaction out of this game, I had to completely relinquish any previous DoW I experiences (many many hours of playing my favorite RTS). The game is terriffic as a stand alone game..absolutely nothing wrong with it (as I've stated in previous posts).

Its only when you try to connect DoW 1 and DoW 2 play styles and overall dynamics together is what turned alot of people off..myself included.
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For those expecting a 'better' DoW 1 game, this isn't it. Other than the name of the races, and the 40K universe, this is a COMPLETELY different type of RTS than DoW 1.

I have to agree with another poster who mentioned in an earlier post that vehicles get destroyed waaaaaayyyyyy too quickly.
 
I'm still amazed at people who don't get the supression unit right away.

That should be the first thing you do as soon as you get in the game, start building the supression unit and have your starting troops going for a victory point and queue your supression squad to go there when it's built.

I have to say, I really did the marines with the Force Commander. It's nice how your units can really be built and tailored to your play style or for a certain enemy you are facing.

If you're playing against a vehicle/walker using enemy then the Power fist + sprint armor + Teleport is so awesome.

You can literally be a one-man wrecking crew when it comes to that, tleleport behind a vehicle/walker and then bust it up and get out of there before any enemies can surround you.
 
The beta is now open to all on steam. I think is a fun game personally from what I have seen so far today.
 
I find this game really tough for me to play, any tips? I'm just messing around playing as Space Marines right now. Do you not build any structures at all?
 
no, you just capture points/resources.

A few tips:

1. As soon as the game starts send your guys toward a victory point.
2. Once they are on their way select your base (you can simply click the plus sign on the right of the screen) and then build a supression squad (for marines it's the heavy bolter squad).
3. Once you do that (while you still have your base selected right click near the victory point so it will set a rally point for any new unit you make to go there (so your supression squad you just started will go there once it's done being built)

After you do all of this you want to focus on making the victory point a foothold. Set up multiple supression squads around it at any main entrances/directions).

Also scale up a new lv when you have the resources to do so.

The main thing to do during this is to build up your hero and squads. Decide on what type of strategy and makeup you want and start toward that.

IE - if you are fighting against someone using vehicles/machines, build your force commander (if he;s your hero) with a power fist and the armor of alchelties(sp, the armor that lets you sprint).

This makes him a great wrecking machine against vehicles, sprint u p to them and go to town.

Also your scouts can make a great team, you might be tempted to ignore them and go for heavy assault/ranged units, but scouts are great when you upgrade them with a leader and either a shotgun (if you olan to engage at close range) or snipers for long range.

Don't splurge on trying to advance to higher lv's, you need units to support , make sure you have a few supression squads covering you and a few main troops (at least one heavy assault squad and one ranged, then a few scouts).

After you have a couple of these then you should be able to advance to the third lv and splurge on new units like the artillery squad or walker.
 
Why the hell have they used GFWL as the match making-service whilst making steam the digital content management system!?!

Its pure fucking idiocy! GFWL match making sucks so much dick it is just incomprehensible why they would not take advantage of steams server support and browser.

A digital content system within another digital content system. Boggles the mind.
 
Been playing since Saturday evening, three of my friends and I have really put some intense playtime in. First I'll cover their impressions.

One friend hates RTS, is a fan of original Warhammer/ 40k TT though. He down right loves it, from a multiplayer perspective it hit the nail on the head for him. The micromanagement in many other RTS is what had driven him away from the original DOW games among many others. Jumping right into battle and spearheading an assault is what impressed him, a powerful leveling hero unit, specialized squads, and an unforgiving time scale were also factors.

Two of my other friends that are fans of DOW1 had mixed first impressions. That changed as they explored the annihilation gameplay against computer controlled AI. They so far feel that emphasizing on the power of a single unit really changes gameplay for the better. Both of them and including myself miss the defensive base building that we have come to know and love. This can only be achieved by choosing the "defense" commander for the Space Marines. Which IMO is one of the better army choices, after a few games we all agreed that its going to shape up into a great game by the time its done and look forward to the finished product.

Now I'll get to my thoughts, Games for Windows Live + Steam = Pure Win. I'll admit that getting it set up the first time is kind of a pain, but I had it running with Fallout 3. So as soon as I launched DOW2 it instantly and automatically signed into my profile. Being logged into both services is something I foresaw a few months ago and speculated if Steam and Live were going to co-exist or compete. Now it looks like they will be able to live in the same house with no problems.

As far a base building goes, I am kind of glad that its gone from the multiplayer at least. They should probably bring in some of the old elements into the single player campaign though, only time will tell on this one. I really like the UI, you can zip through your units on the fly, upgrading them is very easy and intuitive. It takes a step away from the traditional RTS and uses what works from a few different games. The focus on battle here has snagged my attention and am starting to get the hang of multiplayer more and more.

As far as "kick ass" moments go, has anyone been playing as the defense general built the "Venerable Dreadnaught"? He costs 750 "war" points(cant remember the name right now) and 750 requisition. But is a unstoppable beast! Lacks the chaingun that the normal dreadnaughts carry in favor of two melee arms, is covered in gold and packs a flamthrower in for extra "punch". I have had several moments where it looked like my team was about to lose the battle, it comes down to my commander and just a couple of his cover squads who are losing HP rapidly. Trying to take a victory point at the last second to bide time for the countdown timer. Fighting for the last couple of war points, as soon as that button for the venerable dreadnaught drop pod lites up I start a retreat and drop the pod behind the following enemies. Boom! As soon as that thing lands it has a war changing impact. I stop my retreating infantry and commander, take cover and set up a turret and its "game on assholes!" That thing just chews through most vehicles and allot of infantry don't stand a chance if you can back him up with another dreadnaught or supression squad. Definitely what Warhammer has always been about to me, this game needs more elite units!
 
So as Orcs - is there a way to target a squad for WWAARGH abilities other than physically selecting them on the main screen? For example, I have a group of squads selected and they're listed down below in the small icon boxes. What I'm trying to do is select a WWARGH ability and then apply it to that icon - but it's not really letting me do it. What I have to do now is identify which icon (squad) I want to apply the ability to, double-click them which snaps the viewer to their location, then manually click the squad as they're in the midst of a blob of orcs, gunfire and carnage. Far too slow.
 
So let me see if I got this correctly. It looks like your Hero is either the Force Comander, Apathacary or a Tech Marine. If that is so good job at fucking up WH40K rules. All three of those are PART of a command squad and dead meat on their owm. May be passing this up and seeing if a mod is out there for DOW1 to upgrade the graphics a bit.
 
defiant007 said:
Why the hell have they used GFWL as the match making-service whilst making steam the digital content management system!?!

Its pure fucking idiocy! GFWL match making sucks so much dick it is just incomprehensible why they would not take advantage of steams server support and browser.

A digital content system within another digital content system. Boggles the mind.
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Not really going to argue your point, but it is an upgrade to go from gamespy(DOW1+e-packs) to gfwl. Gamespy is freakin horrible and its still used on the older DOW games.I would really like to see a third party dev use steam as the multiplayer tracking and match making. Is it even possible?

mstersmith1 said:
So let me see if I got this correctly. It looks like your Hero is either the Force Comander, Apathacary or a Tech Marine. If that is so good job at fucking up WH40K rules. All three of those are PART of a command squad and dead meat on their owm. May be passing this up and seeing if a mod is out there for DOW1 to upgrade the graphics a bit.
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LOL, its a video game not the tt of 40k. They have never claimed they would emulate the rules from tt. To me, they are closer to the 40k fluff than the older game. To each his own though.;)
 
cpt.whistlepants said:
Not really going to argue your point, but it is an upgrade to go from gamespy(DOW1+e-packs) to gfwl. Gamespy is freakin horrible and its still used on the older DOW games.I would really like to see a third party dev use steam as the multiplayer tracking and match making. Is it even possible?



LOL, its a video game not the tt of 40k. They have never claimed they would emulate the rules from tt. To me, they are closer to the 40k fluff than the older game. To each his own though.;)
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True but the first game was more true to the rule set of the TT. I was under the impression from numerous interviews that they were taking the fluff from the TT and attempting to recreate the small squad based combat from the Marines. Hence my dissapointment. It may be a fun game though. The first game was very true to the fluff and rule sets. We shall see though.
 
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