Wanting to upgrade from my old Athlon X2...

C

CompuG##K

Gawd
Joined
Jul 9, 2008
Messages
593
I'm sick and tired of being bottlenecked by my Athlon x2 5200+. Even at 2.8ghz I'm still way too cpu limited with my 8800 Ultra in everything and it's showing tell tale signs. Running newer games with max details yields poorer performance than what my video card is capable of in other setups with C2D/C2Q. Dropping the resolution yields very little performance increase in most cases.

I've tweaked with this system enough to know that it's not a driver related problem. My 3dmark 2006 score (low 10k range) is consistent with others with similar specs.

So basically I want to grab a new motherboard/cpu to put in this system, while leaving everything else unchanged.

Here's what I have now:

Mobo: MSI K9A Platinum
Cpu: Athlon x2 5200+ @ 2.8ghz
Ram: 4gb (2 x 2gb) Kingston HyperX DDR2 800 (4-4-4-12)
Gfx: 8800 Ultra
PSU: Thermaltake Toughpower 700w


So for just short of $500, I came up with this:


Asus Rampage Formula
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131284

C2Q Q6600
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115017

From what I've read, this motherboard should work with my existing DDR2 800 memory, and everything else shouldn't be a problem. I should be able to just swap out the cpu/mobo and install a fresh copy of windows, shouldn't I?

I'm pretty set on getting the Q6600 since it's been selling like hotcakes and is quite cheap now, so the only question that remains concerns the motherboard.

Is this a good choice of a motherboard? Any other recommendations?

Also, I know Nehalem is on its way, but I'd rather stick with the C2Q while its still in its prime.

Basically, the plan is to let my 8800 Ultra stretch its legs for now, and then get a 4870x2 or equivalent later on to let this system really scream.
 
Your choice of mobo/cpu is good, though the mobo is a tad expensive. Dont' get me wrong, its a great board with all the features you could ask for, its just really expensive. If you want to consider something a bit cheaper, take a look at the P5Q Pro. It will support your RAM and video card (although it doesn't support SLI) and has pretty good overclocking capabilities. Its a fairly popular board at the moment, and you can find them over at newegg for $140. I actually just bought one myself for my new build.

My new build, for comparison:
P5Q Pro
Q6600
G. Skill 4 GB RAM (2x2GB)
OCZ GamerXStream 700w
Visiontek Radeon 4850

Like I said before though, the P5Q Pro supports Crossfire, not SLI, so if you plan on getting another 8800, go with a different board.
 
Well, I had planned on Crossfire from the start, even with my current motherboard. In fact, I built this system with the HD 2900 Pro in mind, hoping it would outperform the 8800gtx as it was expected to. When it turned out to be a power-hungry flop, I decided at the last moment to get an 8800ullra since they had just lowered the price on them to just slightly above that of the GTX.

I also made the mistake of buying an Athlon X2 near the end of its reign. Not too long after I built this system, the Core 2 Duos came and of course wiped the floor with everything AMD.


Anyways, I plan on eventually getting a 4870 x2 or whatever ATI has out by then.


As far as the motherboard goes, which would be more future-proof? The Rampage Formula or the P5Q Pro? I like the feature-richness of the Rampage, and I do plan on giving the Q6600 a healthy overclock to at least 3ghz, if my ram can handle it. Any particular advantages that the P5Q has over the Rampage other than price?



Also this will be my first ever venture over to the side of Intel since I started building computers a good 13 years ago. So I suppose I will have to get used to a few things that are different than on AMD systems, but I'm sure I'll manage.
 
Stick with the Rampage especially if you plan on going for CrossFireX. The board may be a tad bit expensive but it is well worth the money in terms of features and performance.
 
you are not the first,nore the last who wanted to grab an x48 mobo "because i might want to go crossfire in the future"
most people that want to go either crossfire or sli , end up never going either way..by the time you want to get the 2nd videocard, a newer one will be out that will outperform your crosffire config or sli at a nice price..

if i was you, i'd go with what peekama suggested, the p5q pro .. your 8800ultra is still good,paired with the q6600 you want, by the time the 8800ultra starts bottlenecking you, a really good card will be out that will outperform your setup... and it also depends on what resolution you're playing at.

butttttttttttt, there's always a but.. if you want to get rid of that 8800ultra right now and grab like 2 new ati cards, then go ahead and get the x48 .. if not, just get the p45 (p5q pro) and save the rest for your next vidcard upgrade.

just my 2cents.
 
Thanks for the suggestions guys. :) I think I will stick with the Rampage and the Q6600 and then save up for a pair of 4870 x2's or whatever refresh card might be out by then. I'll keep my 8800 Ultra until I get the new cards, and then sell it along with my current AMD mobo/cpu to my friend who is wanting a decent gaming system. He has what amounts to a crappy office computer with virtually no gaming capability right now, so what I'm selling him should be a great start of a new system for him and should satisfy him greatly. :D


Right now I play at 1600x1200 on my 19" CRT, so my 8800 Ultra would be more than enough for that with a Q6600. After seeing my system take a pounding from Crysis and other games at 1920x1080 on my 52" lcd, it's quite clear that I need a bit more gfx horsepower if I'm to play games smoothly at that resolution, as well as the cpu power to back it up.
 
CompuG##K said:
As far as the motherboard goes, which would be more future-proof? The Rampage Formula or the P5Q Pro?
Click to expand...

Neither. Intel is switching to a new socket this year. So both mobos have the same lifetime in terms of CPU upgrades. Also, make sure that you will actually use most if not all of the features of the Rampage. I've seen in many cases where people buy $300 motherboards packed ton with features when all the features they needed and used was in a $100 motherboard.
 
just grab a Q6600 and the Asus P5Q Pro and get it over with..

you'll be all set for the next 12 to 18 months..you will save a little those 12 to 18 months and get a new vidcard by then or a full system upgrade when nehalem becomes mainstream
 
buy a P45 with x8/x8 crossfire and problem solved. fyi x8 crossfire on p45 board is PCI-E 2.0 so it's really equal to the old PCI-E x16 in bandwidth so any x8 crossfire p45 should be more then enough for your needs.
 
Wow, lots of votes for the P45. Well if it's the better price/performance buy then I might just go for it then. I guess I should listen to you guys since I've really never had experience with Intel platforms.

Couple more questions.. Is the add-in pci-e 1x sound card on the Rampage better than the onboard sound on the P5Q Pro? Any other noticable differences between the P45 and X48 chipsets?
 
CompuG##K said:
Wow, lots of votes for the P45. Well if it's the better price/performance buy then I might just go for it then. I guess I should listen to you guys since I've really never had experience with Intel platforms.

Couple more questions.. Is the add-in pci-e 1x sound card on the Rampage better than the onboard sound on the P5Q Pro? Any other noticable differences between the P45 and X48 chipsets?
Click to expand...

if your going to use more the 4GB of ram this includes vram in which case you should use Vista then no a sound card is a sound card as far as Vista goes

also another vote for the P5Q Pro i have the P35 based P5K Pro and a E7200 which i upgraded from a 939 X2 3800+ that was OCed to 2.5
and this E7200 @ 3.6 blows it away

if you have the money you should look in to a 45nm quad but the Q6600 is still a great CPU
 
Personally id go for something like a asus p5q pro and a 45nm quad. Like a q9450. You can get into a pair like that for under 500 bucks and that would last you quite a long time.
 
It seems as though my decision has been made for me. I checked the memory QVL for the Rampage Formula and the P5Q and the Rampage Formula doesn't support my memory in all 4 slots, only one slot. The P5Q, however, does support all 4 slots being filled with my memory. I suppose since the Rampage is geared more towards high end overclocking, it prefers something more along the lines of DDR2 1066. I'm currently using Kingston HyperX DDR2 800 modules in a (4x 1gb) configuration.

As a side note, I'm starting to wonder if my current motherboard is fully compatible with this memory. It's made to be run at 4-4-4-12 2.0v, but when I set it to that, my performance decreases dramatically. I have to leave it at the default 5-5-5-13 1.9v for it to run without decreased performance. Does it have anything to do with using 4 modules as opposed to 2?


Anyways, now that I'll be going for a cheaper motherboard, I suppose I can look at buying one of the 45nm quad cores. Now for my next question, which is about stepping. I keep hearing a lot about E0 stepping and how it supposedly runs slightly cooler and requires less volts to keep stable. Is this true? How do I make sure I get a cpu with E0 stepping? Or is it just luck of the draw? I'm looking at getting a Q9550 since it's just a few bucks more than the Q9450.


Anyways, thanks for the input guys. You're making my transition to Intel much easier than it would have been had I tried figuring out what to get myself. :)
 
Q9550 is not guaranteed E0 .. however Q9650 is guaranteed E0.

If you wait like2 to 4 weeks, the chance of getting an E0 Q9550 is larger.
 
CompuG##K said:
It seems as though my decision has been made for me. I checked the memory QVL for the Rampage Formula and the P5Q and the Rampage Formula doesn't support my memory in all 4 slots, only one slot. The P5Q, however, does support all 4 slots being filled with my memory. I suppose since the Rampage is geared more towards high end overclocking, it prefers something more along the lines of DDR2 1066. I'm currently using Kingston HyperX DDR2 800 modules in a (4x 1gb) configuration.

As a side note, I'm starting to wonder if my current motherboard is fully compatible with this memory. It's made to be run at 4-4-4-12 2.0v, but when I set it to that, my performance decreases dramatically. I have to leave it at the default 5-5-5-13 1.9v for it to run without decreased performance. Does it have anything to do with using 4 modules as opposed to 2?


Anyways, now that I'll be going for a cheaper motherboard, I suppose I can look at buying one of the 45nm quad cores. Now for my next question, which is about stepping. I keep hearing a lot about E0 stepping and how it supposedly runs slightly cooler and requires less volts to keep stable. Is this true? How do I make sure I get a cpu with E0 stepping? Or is it just luck of the draw? I'm looking at getting a Q9550 since it's just a few bucks more than the Q9450.


Anyways, thanks for the input guys. You're making my transition to Intel much easier than it would have been had I tried figuring out what to get myself. :)
Click to expand...


your mem issues are more then likely related to you using all 4 slots
the intel mem controls really dont like running overclocked with all in use and normally you need to up the vdimm and let out the timings some just as you said
imo DRR2 is cheap sell what you have and get 2x 2GB sticks and call it good
 
Elios said:
your mem issues are more then likely related to you using all 4 slots
the intel mem controls really dont like running overclocked with all in use and normally you need to up the vdimm and let out the timings some just as you said
imo DRR2 is cheap sell what you have and get 2x 2GB sticks and call it good
Click to expand...

I was deeply considering doing just that. Another friend of mine also has 4x 1gb sticks and his motherboard (Asus Crossfire) goes berserk when he uses all 4 slots. So, any recommendations on memory? I would of course want something that wouldn't hold me back on clocking that quad core, so I'm open for suggestions on brand, speed, etc...

I just want to make sure I don't mess up and end up with a mixed brand mess of parts like the system I have now. I was so out of the loop when I built this thing that a lot of mistakes were made when it came to deciding what parts to get. I'm making sure that doesn't happen again.
 
If so many people have issues with running sticks in all 4 slots, I musta got lucky then.... Come to think of it, I've never really had trouble running 4 stick of RAM in any board I've ever had that supported 4 sticks of RAM.

I'm even using two different brands of RAM and don't have any issues... my overclock wasn't hurt one bit when I went from 2 to 4 sticks.
 
CompuG##K said:
I was deeply considering doing just that. Another friend of mine also has 4x 1gb sticks and his motherboard (Asus Crossfire) goes berserk when he uses all 4 slots. So, any recommendations on memory? I would of course want something that wouldn't hold me back on clocking that quad core, so I'm open for suggestions on brand, speed, etc...

I just want to make sure I don't mess up and end up with a mixed brand mess of parts like the system I have now. I was so out of the loop when I built this thing that a lot of mistakes were made when it came to deciding what parts to get. I'm making sure that doesn't happen again.
Click to expand...

well... the OCZ Reaper is nice and most people run 1:1 so all you really need is a DDR2 800 and even then good DDR2 800 will do 1066 at 5-5-5-15 or so
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227267
this is what i have running at DDR2 1000 and a FSB at 1600
5-5-5-15 ~1.8 vdimm
should work fine for a Q6600 since it tops out at like 3.6 or so
 
They look like good modules indeed. Unfortunately they aren't in the QVL for the P5Q Pro (or even the Rampage Formula for that matter) and I'm reading about problems the board has with them...


I suppose I'll have to consult the QVL for some memory that is tested to be compatible with the P5Q Pro...


How do these look?

OCZ 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227248&Tpk=ocz2p8004gk


Firing off another question. For a guy that's been building systems for 13 years I sure have a lot of em. :p
Would the DDR2 800 ram and this motherboard allow me to potentially hit 4ghz with a Q9550 (provided I get the E0 model when I make my purchase in a few weeks)?
 
the ones i linked will work fine and are better trust me the QVL lists tend to not list many 2GB sticks

as to get to 4.0 that depends on the CPU how high the mobo will go and such
id have look what the multiplyer is on the Q9550

ok looks like the Q9550 is 8.5 yea.. not sure the mobo would make it
it would need a fsb of 470
the ram would be fine at 1:1 but your going to be limited by the mobo's northbridge
if you want 4.0 you really need atlest a 9.0 or better yet a 10.0 to make it
 
Elios said:
the ones i linked will work fine and are better trust me the QVL lists tend to not list many 2GB sticks

as to get to 4.0 that depends on the CPU how high the mobo will go and such
id have look what the multiplyer is on the Q9550

ok looks like the Q9550 is 8.5 yea.. not sure the mobo would make it
it would need a fsb of 470
the ram would be fine at 1:1 but your going to be limited by the mobo's northbridge
if you want 4.0 you really need atlest a 9.0 or better yet a 10.0 to make it
Click to expand...


Ok, gotcha. So would the Rampage Formula have a better chance at reaching 4.0 with the Q9550 then? I saw a couple of people that hit 4ghz with a Q9550 on that board. They were running PC8500 memory though...
 
CompuG##K said:
Ok, gotcha. So would the Rampage Formula have a better chance at reaching 4.0 with the Q9550 then? I saw a couple of people that hit 4ghz with a Q9550 on that board. They were running PC8500 memory though...
Click to expand...

it might but i have not used it
i think 4.0 is wishfull thinking imo 3.6 3.8 i think is more realistic
and any mobo should do that

but like i said the ram i linked is what i have now and i really like it
 
Very well then, I'll keep that in mind. :)

I think I have enough info to decide what to get. Thanks a lot guys for your help. :cool:
 
Sorry for the double post, but I've decided what to get. My previous budget limits have doubled, so now price is no longer a factor for the parts I plan to get.

Current setup:

Athlon X2 5200+
MSI K9A Platnium
4gb Kingston HyperX DDR2 800
Thermaltake Toughpower 700w

I'm selling the motherboard, cpu, ram, and power supply from my current setup to my friend for around $300 (which is a steal, but he's on a low budget with his system and I wanted to help him out). A few other sources of income, plus my monthly paycheck, give me a little over $1200 to spend.

So I pulled out pretty much most of the stops.

Core 2 Quad Q9650 3.0ghz
Asus Rampage Formula
4gb (2x 2gb) G.Skill DDR21066 (I chose this ram because I've read from several sources that this board works well with these units.)
Corsair CMPSU-750TX 750W

From what I've read, this cpu is pretty easy to push to 4ghz with a minor increase in voltage.

I'll stick with my 8800Ultra until I get my next paycheck, then I'll get a 4870 x2. Sometime down the road after that, I'll opt for a second 4870 x2 (and a more capable power supply).

By the time this system becomes dated enough to build a new one, Nehalem or even its successor should be in full swing and mainstream. That's the plan at least...

For right now though, I think this setup will fit into my budget quite nicely. I know the P5Q is a better value, but it lacks a lot of the features that I really like on the Rampage. I know I could wait for the Q9550 E0, but I like the 9x multiplier on the Q9650, plus I'm guaranteed an E0 model. This setup should land at around $1116, which is, for me, quite acceptable.
 
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