Want to learn a new scripting language...

[UncleDavid218]

I have a very high level of technical understanding and ability, but have never given the time or effort to learn any programming languages...

So basically, what's the best language to start out on?

I can get a copy of Visual Studio 2005 from my friends Dad who is a programmer and MSDN subscriber...

(I know this is very broad)

 

[jimmyb]

You can also get an express version for free from Microsoft. I have had very good experiences with this.

Your thread name confuses me somewhat. It's not clear to me whether you want to learn a scripting language, or something non-interpreted (interpreted bytecode aside).

My recommendation for a scripting language is bash, simply because I use it so frequently to get little jobs done. It's also quick to pick up. It's also relevant mostly on unix, so be warned.

 

[deuce868]

Check out Python. There are some books out about getting started with programming and python and you can use it for everything from small shell scripts all the way up to larger multi-platform gui applications. It's a good place to start.

 

[mikeblas]

I have a very high level of technical understanding and ability, but have never given the time or effort to learn any programming languages...

How could you have a very high level of technical ability and not know any programming languages?

I can get a copy of Visual Studio 2005 from my friends Dad who is a programmer and MSDN subscriber...

We don't talk about piracy in this forum.

 

[UncleDavid218]

How could you have a very high level of technical ability and not know any programming languages?

We don't talk about piracy in this forum.

If you would have taken time to read my post (instead of skimming through it, making a post that is completely useless in a blatant attempt to raise your post count) you would have noticed that my copy of Visual Studio is legal and complies with Microsoft's TOS.

But thanks for the help, really.

In any case, I'm still looking for a good answer (thanks to those who posted above mikeblas!)

 

[mikeblas]

you would have noticed that my copy of Visual Studio is legal and complies with Microsoft's TOS.

What you're worried about is the EULA, not the TOS. Regardless, I see an assertion of satisfying neither mentioned in your original post; just that you plan to get a copy from a guy who has MSDN.

blatant attempt to raise your post count

Yeah; I'm all about post count. I can't think of anything more important than my post count. At all. I was afraid I'd be up all night working about it again, but then I bumped into your post, snapped off my response, and realized I could rest my head.

Problem is, I don't think any answer will be to your satisfaction. But I'll reply anyway because, after all, all I want is a higher post count. I hope you don't mind; I really need it. My last job interview ended abruptly when the interviewer said my post count was too low!

There's no best language to start out on -- scripting or otherwise. Every language has its own benefits and shortcomings. Some may be more approachable for beginners like you, but they're generally not languages that are commercially useful.

I think what you're better off doing is picking a modest project that interests you, then figuring out what language (out of the ones you have tools and references for) is best suited for that project. That way, you'll keep your interest up.

Or, you might want to start at the bottom and go with assembly language. That'll force you to think things trough thoroughly, learn your tools carefully, learn to debug from the beginning, and get very intimate with the operation of the machine. While other languages and tools can help you realize those goals, that path is made mandatory with assembly language.

Please let me know if you have any follow-up questions. I'm sure I can help; plus, I'll be able to jack my post count even more. And I'm glad you asked this question instead of reusing any of the other similar threads. It's like a super double bonus for me; instead of letting this same response in those threads serve as a reference, I can crank my post count even more.

Mmmmm, post count.

 

[fluxion]

being an MSDN subscriber doesnt mean you can distribute programs to other people.

as far a picking a language, it doesnt really matter. Java, C++, C, Perl, Python... all have just about the same learning curve, all are fairly useful, and all are enough to learn general programming techniques.

 

[fluxion]

yah, picking an interesting project to develop really helps in learning a new language. moves you along alot faster.

 

[mikeblas]

Another messgage reminded me of my post count, so I came back to this thread. Is there anything else we can help you with, UncleDavid218?

Please let me know; I'm just dying to jack my post count even moar!1!!

 

[Mafi0So]

stfu mike...

 

[Xenarchy]

Another messgage reminded me of my post count, so I came back to this thread. Is there anything else we can help you with, UncleDavid218?

Please let me know; I'm just dying to jack my post count even moar!1!!

While this last post was uncalled for and the previous one while relevant came across a bit harsh. It still made me laugh to think people post in here just for their post count. Didn't realize this was genmay.

Anyway, back to the OP's question.

Learning a language really is about problem solving. If you like to sit around and solve math puzzles all day then programming will follow similar logic. Its lots of fun

So where to start you ask?
Well that depends. Do you want to do web apps? Windows apps? linux apps? mac apps? You should pick a field of interest and figure out which tools (languages) suit that field.

Since you mentioned microsoft I will assume you want to do something on the microsoft side of things. I'm going to suggest that you learn either C# or Java. Now before the rest of this forum flames me to death just hear me out.

I'd pick C# if you really don't care about sharing your creation with anyone else. I say this because it is unlikely that you'll be able to write a portable C# app between .net 2.0 and Mono. Otherwise pick Java.

Now I say C# or Java because for an unguided newbie they are very friendly and still stress some object orientated techniques. This will allow him or her to get up and running a little bit faster. Advanced OO design without having to worry about constantly cleaning house. (Thx GC).

If you have a teacher or mentor I would pick whatever language he or she is most fluent in as it will give the two of you a better ground to communicate on. The goal of this learning exercise is not to learn a language, rather, to learn how to program.

But anyway. Have fun and please just use the express versions of Visual Studio. You wont even come close to using the full power of VS.net 2005 for quite a while. This way everyone stays legal and you still reach your goal. Learning to program.

 

[CodeX]

For a scripting language I use Lua a lot in games and stuff, its pretty easy to pick up, uses C++ like syntax, and is royalty free.
http://www.lua.org/

As far as programming languages I would suggest that you learn either C++ or Java because if you plan on continuing your education in Computer Science you will more than likely be using those two languages (plus assembly).

 

[Wingy]

If you would have taken time to read my post (instead of skimming through it, making a post that is completely useless in a blatant attempt to raise your post count) you would have noticed that my copy of Visual Studio is legal and complies with Microsoft's TOS.

But thanks for the help, really.

In any case, I'm still looking for a good answer (thanks to those who posted above mikeblas!)

One thing you'll learn is that mike is one of the most helpful guys on this forum. The guy is a genius. One of the reasons he may have answered your post like this is because he works for MS. Gotta protect the home team...


Anyway, I started with a strange combination of C/C++. I like C++ alot. But if you're really trying to get good, almost any language will suffice. What you're doing is trying to learn concepts, and essentially all languages can do that.

 

[chomsky]

I'm a ruby zealot, but for a lot of reasons which won't make a lot of sense to a non-programmer, regardless of technical ability. You have to get out there and try a few, begin to understand what the differences are, not just in syntax but in how each supports different approaches to programming to different degrees Anyway, I would hope you give ruby or python a shot as far as scripting languages go, as they seem to attract different schools of programmers.
(well, to put that in context, I like python for things I might otherwise use lisp for, and ruby has completely substituted for things I would have done in perl a few years ago)
And let's not be too presumptuous about the motives of the people who are taking the time to help you out.

Lua was also very cool, and from a pedagogical (sp?) standpoint I would also recommend it, but it's actual uses are more niche
postcount++, yes!

 

[mikeblas]

While this last post was uncalled for and the previous one while relevant came across a bit harsh. It still made me laugh to think people post in here just for their post count. Didn't realize this was genmay.

Sorry if it's harsh, but I'm hardly going to stop. It's such an absurd accusation that I'm going to indulge myself and play with it for a while.

I'd pick C# if you really don't care about sharing your creation with anyone else. I say this because it is unlikely that you'll be able to write a portable C# app between .net 2.0 and Mono. Otherwise pick Java.

Why is it not possible to share C# apps with anyone else? What's Mono got to do with it? Hundreds of millions of people run Windows, and dozens of millions have the .NET framework installed. Why can't a C# app be shared with those folks?

Or are you thinking about writing cross-platform stuff? Either way -- sharing something, or going cross platform -- seems at this stage to be skipping a few steps for a guy wh's just starting to learn a language.

One thing you'll learn is that mike is one of the most helpful guys on this forum. The guy is a genius. One of the reasons he may have answered your post like this is because he works for MS. Gotta protect the home team...

Thanks for your kind words, but I think you're engaging a bit of hyperbole. Plus, I quit working at the bit factory in December.

stfu mike...

Am I to gather, Mafi0So, that you think the OP should choose a vulgar language to learn first?

 

[Xenarchy]

Sorry if it's harsh, but I'm hardly going to stop. It's such an absurd accusation that I'm going to indulge myself and play with it for a while.

Why is it not possible to share C# apps with anyone else? What's Mono got to do with it? Hundreds of millions of people run Windows, and dozens of millions have the .NET framework installed. Why can't a C# app be shared with those folks?

I never asked you to stop. Get off your horse.

Secondly c# apps don't run on linux or osx, or any other operating system except windows. So everyone would have to include other operating systems. While I admit that java doesn't alawys run everywhere, it does an ok job.

 

[jimmyb]

C# can run on Linux, OSX, etc. via Mono actually. This has been discussed extensively in this thread even.

 

[Xenarchy]

C# can run on Linux, OSX, etc. via Mono actually. This has been discussed extensively in this thread even.

you obviously haven't ever tried it have you? Support for forms is next to zilch. Sure some apps can run on either. But not consistently.

 

[mikeblas]

I never asked you to stop. Get off your horse.

I'm not on a horse, Xenarchy. And I never said you had asked me to stop.

Secondly c# apps don't run on linux or osx, or any other operating system except windows.

Mono and Dot GNU bring C# apps and .NET to the Linux OSes. But what you had said wasn't about C# running elsewhere; it was about not sharing your apps with anyone else. Odds are that if you know someone else with a compuer, they're running Windows on it, so it shouldn't be hard to find someone to share C# code with.

 

[jimmyb]

I have run several C# programs written in MonoDevelop (Beagle for instance). But, to my knowledge, I can't say I've run anything brought over from VS.

 

[UncleDavid218]

Thanks guys, lets try and keep the thread on topic.

I basically don't care if my applications will run on Linux or OS X, because all myself and my friends run is Windows anyway...

I think I'm going to look into C#, one of my friends knows it pretty well

 

[amromousa]

Thanks guys, lets try and keep the thread on topic.

I basically don't care if my applications will run on Linux or OS X, because all myself and my friends run is Windows anyway...

I think I'm going to look into C#, one of my friends knows it pretty well

A good language to start on, IMHO. Java (GASP!) is pretty good to start with, IMHO, as well.

 

[Wingy]

A good language to start on, IMHO. Java (GASP!) is pretty good to start with, IMHO, as well.

I'm learning Java right now for a senior project I have to do. I gotta tell ya, as far as features go, this language has some pretty neat standard libraries.


EDIT: err packages? I'm not quite up with the lingo yet.

 

[amromousa]

I'm learning Java right now for a senior project I have to do. I gotta tell ya, as far as features go, this language has some pretty neat standard libraries.


EDIT: err packages? I'm not quite up with the lingo yet.

All the same to me, who cares as long as I can tell what you mean.

.NET is pretty uber too, in that respect (again, IMHO. some of the die hard *nix guys would lynch me for saying it, but I prefer C# to Java -- altho Eclipse is a better IDE than VS2005. I've yet to download Orcas beta--the next VS--to see how it's improved but I hear quite a bit).

 

[bobbydole]

I would start with Java. It's nice and easy, but not too easy. C# may be good. I don't really know, never used it..