want to add realtime cable recording to my setup

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nobody_here

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Current setup is digital cable with the cable company's standard HD DVR box, it's a Pace unit.

For HTPC duties I have a Foxconn NT-A3500 Fusion E-350 based Nettop pc and a Netgear NV+ RND4000 4 bay NAS all on a giga network. Typically this unit is used with XBMC to play off the NAS.

Wondering what I would need to add cable recording to the mix? Maybe a USB capture card? Can you simply connect it between the output of the box and the input on the TV? It's connected via HDMI right now.
 
Did you want the HTPC to be able to do its own recording or record output of the box?
 
qbanb8582 said:
Did you want the HTPC to be able to do its own recording or record output of the box?
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hrm....sounds like the same thing to me.....I want to use the HTPC to record cable as in a replacement for my cable company DVR, I think? But I have to have this box to get HD, so to do it right I would need a full on HD tuner capability too.
 
nobody_here said:
hrm....sounds like the same thing to me.....I want to use the HTPC to record cable as in a replacement for my cable company DVR, I think? But I have to have this box to get HD, so to do it right I would need a full on HD tuner capability too.
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Then you need a tuner. If you want all the digital channels and HD you'll need to get the Ceton Infinitv4. With this the HTPC becomes your DVR and you don't need the cablebox. This also gives your 4 streams instead of 2. This sounds more like what you want. What it does is uses a cablecard which gives you access to all the channels you would have with your cablebox minus on demand and pay-per-view.

There are capture devices like a hauppauge hd pvr that will record the output of your cablebox. That would still require cablebox obviously.
 
qbanb8582 said:
Then you need a tuner. If you want all the digital channels and HD you'll need to get the Ceton Infinitv4. With this the HTPC becomes your DVR and you don't need the cablebox. This also gives your 4 streams instead of 2. This sounds more like what you want. What it does is uses a cablecard which gives you access to all the channels you would have with your cablebox minus on demand and pay-per-view.

There are capture devices like a hauppauge hd pvr that will record the output of your cablebox. That would still require cablebox obviously.
Click to expand...

Alternative to the Ceton that functions similarly would be the HDHomerun Prime, which recently have been on pretty decent sales. Just an option to have for consideration, worth looking into both as they both have pros/cons.
 
I just picked up a HD Homeurn Prime for my house and I'm glad I did. Do wish I had 4 tuner goodness like the Ceton? Yes. Do I wish I had the bugs and the heat in my HTPC case from the Ceton? HELL NO, I'll take a loss on the fourth tuner and enjoy a stable viewing and recording experience tyvm!

Also, the Ceton requires you to bind tuners to your HTPCs. The HD Homerun Prime does not require this so you have three network tuners that are selectable from any pc in the house that is compatible with the product. Each computer will just choose an available tuner. If you find yourself running out of tuners, just buy another Prime and a cable card for it.
 
fwiw i have a ceton and have no bugs or stability issues. Haven't heard of many people having problems with them either.

additionally, going to HDHRP route with multiple PC's has its own set of issues that may or may not be important to you, such as not having a single unified guide throughout the house and potential problems watching tv recorded on one pc on another pc (i.e. if your cable provider flags content)
 
I won't debate the issue thing since I don't own one, but the comments I've read had to do with the heat output(most of those pcie tuners get hot, I've had two happauge models that got pretty hot), and the loss of tuners after running for a while requiring resets, which I read elsewhere that it was releated to overheating, so YMMV.

The tuner assignment thing was a red flag for me but I was going to buy one anyway until I saw the sale on the Prime. The Ceton was actually my first pick. Initially I really wanted the 4 tuners but I also didn't like the extra heat in the case and having to keep a computer on all the time.

I don't know about the unified guide argument. The exenders get the guide from the HTPC and the other computers will get the same guide for the cable provider via WMC. I have Verizon FIOS and they aren't flagging things Copy Once. I'll be keeping an eye out but this would be an issue for any Cable card implementation. So it's really a non-issue. It's something that a person will have to deal with if their cable company locks all or too much of the content.
 
Also have good experiences with Ceton's InfiniTV4. Unified guide AND recording schedule is a must for my household. TWC flags everything, but using extenders makes it a non-issue.

I do like the idea of dynamic tuner pooling with the HDHP, but I've heard issues of missed recordings in cases where all tuners are in use with no warning.

The heat issue is overstated, IMO - after having 4 tuners, I want more :)

OP - you will do well choosing either system.
 
If you dont like the heat theres the USB version of the infinitv4. I have the PCI-e version and only real complaint is the heat but I have quiet fans in my HTPC.
 
HDHR - PRIME - I like this solution if you are going to use PCs and not extenders.

If you have a laptop already with an HDMI port, you can walk that around to any room in the house and watch TV on the laptop or run it into a TV and voila. With the Ceton setup, the dedicated PC or extenders (aka xbox's) don't lend themselves to that flexibility.

You should also verify if you need PRIME. May be overkill if you don't need more than 2 tuners if you don't have need a cable card. If you have Comcast, but this point, almost everyone would need the PRIME version which is their cable card capable version.
 
The USB version of that Ceton Infinitv4 looks promising as the HTPC I have is smaller than my router....it's one of those tiny Nettop units.

So get that, swap out cable company tuner box for cable card, and set up HTPC to record and whatnot....is the E-350 Fusion with 4Gb of ram platform stout enough to perform up to speed or is all the muscle in the Ceton unit?
 
nobody_here said:
The USB version of that Ceton Infinitv4 looks promising as the HTPC I have is smaller than my router....it's one of those tiny Nettop units.

So get that, swap out cable company tuner box for cable card, and set up HTPC to record and whatnot....is the E-350 Fusion with 4Gb of ram platform stout enough to perform up to speed or is all the muscle in the Ceton unit?
Click to expand...

All the Ceton does is stream the recording to disk. The e-350 is enough to play back but the MC UI is a little laggy/slow.

What are you going to recerd to - a USB connected disk? If that is the case you may have issues with the two USB devices connected and trying to record 4 streams at once to a USB HD.
 
tesfaye said:
I don't know about the unified guide argument. The exenders get the guide from the HTPC and the other computers will get the same guide for the cable provider via WMC. I have Verizon FIOS and they aren't flagging things Copy Once. I'll be keeping an eye out but this would be an issue for any Cable card implementation. So it's really a non-issue. It's something that a person will have to deal with if their cable company locks all or too much of the content.
Click to expand...

Like i said guide/flagging may or may not be important to you.

You are lucky that you have fios which currently doesn't flag anything, but if you are using a pc based approach, as you indicate, then you don't benefit from unified guide i.e. each pc has its own guide with its own set of scheduled recordings (conversely extenders use the guide of the main pc and all recordings that are set up through extenders are set up on the main pc).

And you can't really call the flagging thing a non-issue, it may be a non-issue for you, however, many people have TWC which flags everything. If you are using a PC based approach and expecting to be able to watch content that was recorded on another pc then you will not be able to. With extenders you can still watch flagged content.

Its knowing all of the limitations of all of the different approaches and weighing what is important to you.

I would argue if you are using an extender based approach then the Ceton is the better option, whereas if you dont care about unified guide or centralized recording of content (i.e. ability to watch flagged content at any location or if none of your content is flagged), then the HDHRP is the better option.

That said it appears that the long term trend is to more flagging of content.
 
danman said:
All the Ceton does is stream the recording to disk. The e-350 is enough to play back but the MC UI is a little laggy/slow.

What are you going to recerd to - a USB connected disk? If that is the case you may have issues with the two USB devices connected and trying to record 4 streams at once to a USB HD.
Click to expand...

The Ceton unit would be the only USB device connected, as it is there are none now other than wireless keyboard and mouse. Everything else is on wired gigabit through the switch in the WNDR3700, throughput is no problem.
 
nobody_here said:
The Ceton unit would be the only USB device connected, as it is there are none now other than wireless keyboard and mouse. Everything else is on wired gigabit through the switch in the WNDR3700, throughput is no problem.
Click to expand...

That may not be the case, some areas need a Tuning adapter which will also be connected through USB. If your cable company does SDV then you'll need a tuning adapter.
 
qbanb8582 said:
That may not be the case, some areas need a Tuning adapter which will also be connected through USB. If your cable company does SDV then you'll need a tuning adapter.
Click to expand...

Well it has two USB 2.0 and two USB 3.0 ports that are free and the only things plugged in now are a wireless mouse and keyboard receiver. I'm not sure I understand the problem....
 
nobody_here said:
Well it has two USB 2.0 and two USB 3.0 ports that are free and the only things plugged in now are a wireless mouse and keyboard receiver. I'm not sure I understand the problem....
Click to expand...

I'm just saying you may need a tuning adapter if you get the infinitv4. Just to keep that in mind it depends on your provider.
 
What is your cable provider?

How much hard drive space does your nettop have? There can be challenges recording to a network drive based on copy protection.
 
Insight Communications, but it's the small part that is located and based out of Louisville, KY that is the small core part they did NOT sell off to Comcast. Need to clarify that as they sold off 90% of their network to Comcast some years ago but decided to hold onto the small local network.

From a little bit of digging around I have not found anyone who has this service and a cable card mention the additional tuner hardware mentioned. I haven't bothered to call them yet as I figure they won't even know what I am talking about.

I am not putting anything on the Nettop itself which has a little 250Gb drive just for the OS and local apps, data will be stored on the several terabyte NAS on the same local wired gigabit network as the net top. If it can be done that is...
 
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That's funny. I live in the Bronx now, and have a Cablevision set up with an HD Homerun Prime, but I'm from Covington, KY and am a proud Louisville alum. My parents still live in Covington and have Insight cable. Insight does support Cablecards, but you're right to assume that they are clueless.

http://myinsight.com/Help-cable-digital-6072.asp
http://myinsight.com/Help-cable-digital-9659.asp

Insight does not use switched digital video -- or at least they didn't as of last year -- so they don't require a converter. Here's a guy who used Insight with a Ceton card:

http://experts.windows.com/frms/windows_entertainment_and_connected_home/f/115/p/98081/517259.aspx

Ignore the problems with the faulty card, though keep it in mind should you have to troubleshoot.

You can not set a network drive as the recording drive for windows media center. It's possible to record to the local drive (even the 250GB drive) and then transfer files to the server as a scheduled task, but it's a hackish venture.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1334653
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...s-7-to-a/1fab1725-0b8d-4797-adae-3bb4e53ae125
http://experts.windows.com/frms/windows_entertainment_and_connected_home/f/114/p/85365/429557.aspx

What OS are you using on the NAS? You may be able to record on the NAS directly.
 
If your NAS has iSCSI support then you can carve out a LUN and mount it with the MC box and record directly to it.
 
The NAS is a Sparc/Unix based Netgear NV+ which I upgraded to 1Gb of memory. It is set up using their X-Raid configuration. All management is done via a web browser GUI without a command line, at least, not in any supported manner.

I am not really sure if I want to use WMC as the interface or not as I believe there are several alternatives. Right now I use XBMC on top of Win 7 Ult x64 on the HTPC for playback.
 
Use Windows Media Center.... Cables Card Tuners work fine, even the old ATI tuner is still used by some people. There is nothing wrong with WMC, people just like to look at XBMC. I have XBMC and I only use it for streaming video and my video collection because frankly it does look better than My Video and Movies or My Movies. I have used Media Browser and that has as much eye candy as XBMC uses the same databases in most cases.

However this is just a test, Rom Collector Browser isn't working right that might be a an issue with something else. The ESPN3 app doesn't work, script error and You Tube works great but lately has been doing strange things with my subscriptions and gives me limited amount of thumbnails, having to go to new sub videos to find all the stuff recently uploaded instead of directly to their channel.

Anyway whatever you choose, if its copy once protected and you're not using an Xbox 360 as an extender you can't watch it on a PC it wasn't recorded with. With the HRPrime you can watch Live TV on any Windows PC since its a network connected tuner. Recorded Files however fall under the same thing.

Also E350 is fine, its a bit slower its only 1.6GHz what do you expect but with an SSD its quite a bit snappier.
 
I have an Xbox 360 on the network on the TV, so it could be used, but my past experiences have been that there is some nasty compromises when using it for video playback, not sure if this involves transcoding on one end or the other, neither of which is good

I have also seen WMC with the Media Browser skin and it is as nice as XBMC. Nice enough I might switch. Have to figure out what I have to do to make that transition. I have been using Ember Media Manager to provide artwork and such.
 
If you are going to watch premium channels -- HBO, Showtime, etc. -- you will need:

* One of:

The SiliconDust HD Homerun Prime
The Ceton 4-tuner USB
The Hauppage 2-tuner USB

* A cablecard from insight.

* To use WMC for all of your viewing and recording (the XBox works well as an extender on a second television, though).

* To record everything to the local hard drive on your HTPC.

You have a lot more options if you don't intend to watch premium channels. There are software packages like XBMC & Sage that may work well on your hardware, and may be able to record to a network drive. Openelec does record to network drives.
 
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