There's a lot more factors in play than just automation going back 300 years. How about going back 30-40 years instead? How much more valuable is labor now than it was then? We're certainly much more productive since then. Plus automation has really accelerated during that time. Look at the auto industry, that's become far more automated since then. Have auto industry workers been seeing their wages go up and up during that time and not lose jobs by the boatload because they've been so valuable?
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
Walmart Is Reportedly Developing a Store of the Future with No Cashiers
- Thread starter Megalith
- Start date
SixFootDuo
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2004
- Messages
- 5,825
You will NEVER find me shopping there.
Luckily with the rich getting richer and the poorer getting poorer you will always have Save-A-LOT, Aldi's and the like.
Walmart is already pretty expensive so I don't shop their much. Example, Walmart 80/20 Hamburger is $3.85 or so a lbs. At Save-A-Lot it's $2.19 a lbs. I could go on and on about food prices.
Never understood why people literally go out of their way to spend $500 a month in groceries when they could very easily spend $250 a month just shopping at Aldi's and Save-A-LOT.
That's $9,000 to $10,000 every 3 years.
Girlfriend and I have been together for 7 years. She would spend the $500 a month until she met me. In 7 years she has saved about $25,000 dollars shopping weekly ads, Save-A-LOT and Aldi's.
Luckily with the rich getting richer and the poorer getting poorer you will always have Save-A-LOT, Aldi's and the like.
Walmart is already pretty expensive so I don't shop their much. Example, Walmart 80/20 Hamburger is $3.85 or so a lbs. At Save-A-Lot it's $2.19 a lbs. I could go on and on about food prices.
Never understood why people literally go out of their way to spend $500 a month in groceries when they could very easily spend $250 a month just shopping at Aldi's and Save-A-LOT.
That's $9,000 to $10,000 every 3 years.
Girlfriend and I have been together for 7 years. She would spend the $500 a month until she met me. In 7 years she has saved about $25,000 dollars shopping weekly ads, Save-A-LOT and Aldi's.
DeathFromBelow
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2005
- Messages
- 7,315
You just leave it in your cart and press the 'I don't want to bag this item' when the button pops up. Maybe some stores are different.
Yes but poor people spend money, because they have to. They can't put it away in offshore accounts etc. When you run a 100% consumer economy can you afford to get rid of the bottom 33% (and growing) that actually buy all your mega corp produce? How many Big Macs and Ford F150's does Jeff Bezos buy a year?
How does a consumer economy work when consumers have no more money to consume?
Currently the reality is all the tax breaks should go to the bottom 50% so they have more money, which improves their lives, improves society, increases demand and sales (this creates jobs) and therefore, gives profits to the corporations.
Oh...yeah...what's that called Trickle UP economics!
As you say a new economic model will be required (to be honest we need a new one now) but I wonder how long the elite will hold on and screw us over till they relent and go with it. Or will we have to 'show them the way'?
I just hope I'm long gone before then.
Last edited:
Yes but poor people spend money, because they have to. They can't put it away in offshore accounts etc. When you run a 100% consumer economy can you afford to get rid of the bottom 33% (and growing) that actually buy all your mega corp produce? How many Big Macs and Ford F150's does Jeff Bezos buy a year?
How does a consumer economy work when consumers have no more money to consume?
Currently the reality is all the tax breaks should go to the bottom 50% so they have more money, which improves their lives, improves society, increases demand and sales (this creates jobs) and therefore, gives profits to the corporations.
Oh...yeah...what's that called Trickle UP economics!
As you say a new economic model will be required (to be honest we need a new one now) but I wonder how long the elite will hold on and screw us over till they relent and go with it. Or will we have to 'show them the way'?
I just hope I'm long gone before then.
Your bottom 46% no longer pay Federal taxes , you keep talking about taxes breaks , i dont think that means what you think it means. Also, whats up with the socialism running rampart from the past 2 years or so? Trump derangement syndrome in full swing?
Could be that modern socialist countries are running way better than the "let that corporate get all of their will" nations of the states?
Congratulations on your first post.
Name one, ill wait.
It's really not an issue with one or the other, it's with minimum wage climbing and automation getting cheaper. At some point, they meet in the middle and then automation starts looking good over the long haul. Wages themselves aren't the only issue. It also comes down to costs companies incurr from having human workers that keep going up as well.
Except that only works a few times before the system requires someone to intervene, essentially defeating the purpose of having the automation.
Theres an extreme example i like to use, it will not relate directly to the US reality but it shows the point, theres a nice little socialist country in EU, where the gov taxes the company on payroll for 23.75% on the salary of a worker for social security , and then taxes the worker at 11%, on top of that they tax the worker at a variable IRS income rate from 7% all the way to 55% with no deductions from the middle brackets up, also to add injury to insult, they force a minimum wage near 600 euros x 14 months, the average of the country its around 900 euros month. Guess what did major supermarkets did the moment those self serviced registers appeared? It wasnt pretty.
This is what I was talking about earlier. At Wally World you end up with one cashier for four self-checkout stations or more. This actually seems to work pretty well for the most part. It still cuts down on human labor costs.
lostin3d
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2016
- Messages
- 2,043
BB really needs to do this with their floor personnel. At least we'd be able to get over the pretense of having a helpful human instead of the automated responses of 'have you checked online' and 'no we don't have that in stock' they normally give.
All the scandinavian countries to begin with
Lower crime rates
Better "Recovery" of criminal people
More vacations for working peoples
Higher minimum wage
Happier population
Better health
Better chance of upgrading your social class (aka personal growth)
Better opportunities for small and medium businesses growth
More freedom
Better democracy
Less political corruption / Less companies interferance in politics
Better consumer protection laws
That just off top of my head. How long a list do you want?
Tell me when you want prof as well and we can look into statics if you want to. however its going to take a bit of time to find them all .
You walked right into that one didnt you? So , lets use your home country , DK, socialist right? Last i checked you had a parliamentarian monarchy all proped up by the revenue of oil exploration. Hint, neither of the scandinavian ones are socialists, its people like you who keep conflating social policies, like social security with socialism. Your lower crime rates are BS when we know how Sweden misreported sexual crimes, your happier its refuted by your suicide rates, better health? This is some wild drugs you using there. And i love when people mention higher salaries and keep quiet about the 50% taxation,makes me all fuzzy inside.
Oh clearly. I appreciate the benefit from the store's point-of-view. For me though, the only tangible benefit is not having to wait.
I also feel like we're being conditioned to choose the automated register. The problem is that once enough people get in the habit, they'll just eliminate cashiers altogether. Once that happens, there will be a strong incentive to eliminate excess capacity...and we'll be right back to waiting, only now we'll be checking ourselves out. Seems kinda like a bait-n-switch.
If you like and use 'em, more power to you. I just wouldn't expect the speed benefit to stick around once they nix human cashiers.
Yay! USA is number...nineteen? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_inequality-adjusted_HDI. Oh wait...that one uses the dirty word "equality."
How about https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/quality-of-life-full-list? That one has us at number eighteen, and was developed in partnership with the Wharton business school (those liberal shills).
Last edited:
And you know what you are quoting right? What does the inequality ranking fits into any of this? Want to know a really equal country? Slovenia, avg gdp its 23k, and they are all the “same”. Want to trade your average 55k for it? ( and if you are going to quote the PPP i would advise you to check beforehand, its still worse than the US one, heck , its even worse than Portugal and it ranks 20 places above it)
Almost like I saw that coming.
How about https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/quality-of-life-full-list? That one has us at number eighteen, and was developed in partnership with the Wharton business school (those liberal shills).
Capitalism is good at a lot, especially efficiency. It's not so good at making sure society at large reaps the benefits of said efficiency. That's actually a function that labor unions -- with all their warts -- did pretty well (before Saint Ronnie started busting them).
Last edited:
Most everything you listed is subjective, and very difficult to measure.
Saying X country is happier than Y is pretty much nonsense.
Outside of holiday shopping, store 100 is almost entirely self checkout. You can also use your smartphone and skip self checkout entirely... or a smartphone they provide at the front of the store.
I assume most other walmarts are crap though.
NeghVar
2[H]4U
- Joined
- May 1, 2003
- Messages
- 2,671
The way I see it, the simplest way would be for every item to have an RFID chip which when at the register, your whole cart passes through a sensor which detects all your items then shows the total at the terminal from which you pay for them.
And right in cue, the famous "quality of life" studies. You ever bothered looking into what is considered a pro or con in these studies? I have, its shocking. I dont subscribe to what a nordic consider a good living, theres more like me, why are they right?
stephen2002
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2005
- Messages
- 141
Self checkout lines still need a lot of work. I like tech but only use them if a line with a person is going to be a longer wait than messing with the self checkout.
<scans item, places item into bagging area>
Please place your item in the bagging area.
<removes item>
<places item>
Unexpected item in the bagging area.
<removes item>
Please place your item in the bagging area.
<places item>
Unexpected item in the bagging area.
<scans item, places item into bagging area>
Please place your item in the bagging area.
<removes item>
<places item>
Unexpected item in the bagging area.
<removes item>
Please place your item in the bagging area.
<places item>
Unexpected item in the bagging area.
Ugh. Really? Argumentum ad populum?
Here's the thing: This isn't a dichotomy. An economy isn't either capitalist or socialist. In practice, nearly all well-functioning economies have elements of both.
- We know command economies have problems. The market just works better than any kind of central planning.
- We also know that laissez-faire capiitalism has problems. Just look at the Gilded Age, for heaven's sake.
Personally, I do not see wealth as an end, but as a means to an end. If we can't agree we're at least trying to make life better for mankind as a whole, what's the point?
OMG EXACTLY.
I dont disagree with that at all, i just stated
A) no nordic country its socialist
B) the kind of tax breaks the UK dude wanted (without even knowing what fed taxes and who pays them) IT IS socialism. (the one asking for tax breaks only for the bottom 50% when 46% dont pay federal taxes)
Shotglass01
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2005
- Messages
- 1,992
+1. He only forgot, Sorry item needs ID check please wait for the attendant.
But I don't shop Walmart.
I shop Smart - I shop SMart!
I have a special hate for those ones that crap out by putting an empty plastic bag on the plate.... Those ones need to be melted down with a nuclear explosion.
Thank you for clarifying.
Personally, I'm fine with progressive taxes. I don't mind paying a higher percentage of my income than those who make less than I do. I'm even fine with the working poor paying no federal income tax. After all, I've been fortunate. What I object to is cutting taxes when we're staring down a massive debt. What we should be doing is keeping tax revenue flat, curbing spending, and attacking the debt.
The real problem is that fiscal responsibility has become politically toxic. Far easier to kick the can.
I
I do have a problem with progressive tax and the other side of the coin it causes, no skin in the game. I realize if you are coming from a place like US where taxes will go around 20% to 30% for you income, you can still let it pass, but now look at EU, the dream of half the ones screaming tax the rich and you will see taxes at 50%+, even if they throw free health care and education (which they really dont) this isnt taxation, its theft.
I do have a problem with progressive tax and the other side of the coin it causes, no skin in the game. I realize if you are coming from a place like US where taxes will go around 20% to 30% for you income, you can still let it pass, but now look at EU, the dream of half the ones screaming tax the rich and you will see taxes at 50%+, even if they throw free health care and education (which they really dont) this isnt taxation, its theft.
sfsuphysics
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2007
- Messages
- 15,994
Self check lines are not an automated stores future, as mentioned they are prone to failure in multiple ways, customers not having any fucking clue how to use them, the machines themselves not knowing that you do in fact have the right item in place because maybe you looked at the pad funny, or the "helper" who's kinda of staring off into the distance counting down the minutes until their next break.
An automated store is going to be one that you putting an item into your cart is going to know it's in your cart due to RFID and some really crafty location scanners to know it's in your cart and not just gone by it, and throw the price on on a little screen to show you how much it is, and if you remove it from your cart it knows you don't want it and takes it off. Then when you're ready to leave you simply swipe your credit card through the reader on the cart, it charges through, a green light pops up on your shopping cart letting the "security guard" at the entrance just glance at your cart and let you through.
That said there are many problems even with a super high tech version like this. First is the average Walmart shopper is not trendy enough to dig this. You need people in some hipster San Francisco or SoDoSoPa in South Park to really appreciate/use this sort of thing. Second is thieves, even current RFID technology is not enough, someone tosses something in a bag lined with aluminum foil and poof they walk outside the store, you need some sort of active RFID that constantly "pings" so that it can say "hey I'm here hey I'm here hey I'm here" then metal lined bags won't work, but then where do you put said RFID? Needs to be inside the boxes so someone doesn't rip it off the outside. And replacing cashiers with underpaid security guards watching TV screens is only moderately better.
An automated store is going to be one that you putting an item into your cart is going to know it's in your cart due to RFID and some really crafty location scanners to know it's in your cart and not just gone by it, and throw the price on on a little screen to show you how much it is, and if you remove it from your cart it knows you don't want it and takes it off. Then when you're ready to leave you simply swipe your credit card through the reader on the cart, it charges through, a green light pops up on your shopping cart letting the "security guard" at the entrance just glance at your cart and let you through.
That said there are many problems even with a super high tech version like this. First is the average Walmart shopper is not trendy enough to dig this. You need people in some hipster San Francisco or SoDoSoPa in South Park to really appreciate/use this sort of thing. Second is thieves, even current RFID technology is not enough, someone tosses something in a bag lined with aluminum foil and poof they walk outside the store, you need some sort of active RFID that constantly "pings" so that it can say "hey I'm here hey I'm here hey I'm here" then metal lined bags won't work, but then where do you put said RFID? Needs to be inside the boxes so someone doesn't rip it off the outside. And replacing cashiers with underpaid security guards watching TV screens is only moderately better.
Usually if somebody is screaming about socialism in a forum, they're either referring to democratic socialism or the concept of welfare in general and equating that with Communism as under Stalin. It happens so often, I'm guessing the other poster was cutting to the chase assuming that's what you were talking about.
Fucking Amen to that, tired of the machine telling me something is on the checkout spot and needs to be removed before proceeding, tired of buying something that needs an attendant to come over with their code to approve the sale, tired of fucking security always wanting to check your receipt because THEY DON'T HAVE A FUCKING CASHIER DOING THE JOB!
Last time I went there, the door security was right in front of my machine watching me do the fucking work (that's right, doing the work and where does it show me saving the money doing that) and she still wanted to check my receipt. I said "all good" she said yes, then I turned around to the service desk and returned everything for a refund and said "I won't be back". Fuck that shit!
Your claim was that no laborers have benefited from automation. That leaves capital owners as the beneficiaries.
As for the future, people have stared into the crystal ball you're staring into for at least 150 years and they've been wrong every time.
Last edited:
Yeah, that wasn't my claim. At all.
Which I believe is pretty clear if you read what I've actually written. If you've done that, but are still confused, then just say so and I'll be happy to explain.
Last edited: