Wall Street Cheers Replacement of Cashiers with Digital Kiosks

[kju1]

There's a multitude of ways of handling it. Both of what you mentioned aren't outside the scope of reality in theory. There's a lot of ways of paying for it, like auditing the Pentagon, considering how it loses track of trillions each year. or changing tax law to have less loopholes and capture some of the 32 trillion being stored in offshore tax havens. However, there's not much point in talking about the specifics in actually implementing it because the political will isn't there. Politically, we're not even onboard with getting lead out of our water, let alone ensuring minimum standards for everyone. Like you said, good luck paying for it, because that's not what government wants. We're in a state of regulatory capture, so it wants whatever the most influential donors wants.

To be fair that "lost" pentagon money is money that was spent. It cant really be used to fund other projects unless you cut what it was spent on and even then its not recouped. The next FY the item doesnt get funded and in theory if tax receipts are the same or higher you can reallocate that money.

The only way to do it during a FY is to defund something and use the money elsewhere. Of course that comes with its own set of issues. When Congress gives money to say the DoD to use your example it approves a budget that has specific amounts in it as different "colors" of money. For example some money is procurement and some is R&D while other is pure labor. Labor money cant be spent to buy a server becuase its not what DoD said to Conress it would do with that money. In the same vein procurement money cant be used to pay for someone to do something...

There are ways to convert money to other types but it involves a lot of paperwork and often its very expensive in terms of manpower and time to make that change happen. And thats just inside one department...imagine what the paperwork would be like to move it from DoD to say State...it would take an act of Congress most likely.

 

[NoOther]

The minimum wage, as envisioned when first passed in '38, was absolutely supposed to be a living wage.

Did I say otherwise? I said that premise is a romantic notion and it is stupid. LCD (Least Common Denominator, ie one size fits all) policies are ineffective. We shouldn't be looking at min wage as just a livable wage, you need to have tiers and other factors involved.

 

[dvsman]

So I finally had the opportunity to go to a "new / upgraded" McDonalds and wow, color me surprised. The big poster-sized touch screen (though in upright portrait orientation not landscape) was very cool to use, and they had an English (& Spanish) speaking / well mannered employee attending the two screens (might have been 2 more on the other side of the restaurant, not sure). You can pick your food, choose sizes and toppings and pay by CC. Then you take a number standee and go sit at a table and a few minutes later, another employee brings food to your table (they look around for the matching number standee).

Very quick and easy. Definitely less employees involved than a normal McDonalds.

The two caveats I see are if you don't speak / are literate in the languages the kiosk offers (can't remember since I just clicked default English). I know there are immigrants who may speak a language but can't read it, so might have some issues with the instructions. Two, people who don't have plastic/CCs. If you are a cash only person, again, you will have to go to the counter and do it the old fashioned way. I personally never use my debit card anywhere but the bank (even then only inside), so I would never recommend anyone else do that either.

The plus to this IMO is that this will weed out the fast-food slackers for sure. The employees that stick around will have to be well-spoken and possess some ability in dealing with people. The knuckleheads who used to just push the button with the picture of the big mac on it, will definitely not survive the incoming employee cuts.

 

[dvsman]

As for your guys arguing about minimum wage or having a guaranteed income for everyone or saying other countries can do this or that - it all starts with being able to control your borders and immigration. I guarantee every country that offers any of those things, is much stricter on immigration and / or automatic citizenship by birth (something alot of countries DO NOT offer if your parents aren't in their country legally).

You can never offer free money / guaranteed basic income if more and more people cross the borders in an uncontrolled manner. That's like trying to poke your fingers in a dam as someone else pokes more holes.

 

[Deleted member 93354]

High minimum wage results in lost jobs overall, and lost income. This has been proven now in multiple studies. This is just one article.

https://www.inc.com/minda-zetlin/do...esearchers-in-seattle-and-berkeley-duke-.html

People act like unskilled jobs are meant to be a way of making a living. Quite frankly if you are unskilled, YOU ARE REPLACEABLE. Unskilled jobs should be considered only for supplemental income to a skilled job. The only solution is to give people a skill. And that is a statement I believe Mike Rowe would more than support.

There was a time you could own a restaurant, or small home supply store, before the big box days. But franchise fees and increased competition, plus an unwillingness of owners and family to work the restaurant results in ever slimmer profit margins. So those days are over.

And as much as I hate to say it, and at risk of starting a political firestorm: High import tariffs on companies that outsource labor and closing off the border are a means of raising the means of creating jobs that pay higher here. But nobody is willing to pick over every box they buy to see if it's "Made In America" anymore.

If you undercut your neighbors job to cheaper labor, you undercut yourself eventually.

 

[VRT]

Amazon will be delivering fast-food within the next two years. Mark my words.

Uber already is here.

This is what you get when you see $15.00/hr minimum wage, no body that is uneducated, usually a drop out, illegal etc and doesn't have a clue deserves this type of wage!

 

[Comixbooks]

Meanwhile the put a slab of grease on top of your bun on 2 of your burgers I used to work there best job I ever had 1/2 off Big Macs if you stay there too long though you start breathing heavy. .10 cent raises the one I used to work for is always hiring and at 9.00 a hour.

Welcome to Mcdonalds *HUFF HUFF HUFF can I take your order *HUFF HUFF* please pull ahead to the 2nd Window for your total. HUFF*

 

[MrGuvernment]

for me it all depends on what i'm buying, if it's just a small amount of things or in the case of home depot if i'm buying a crap load of small things that are a pain in the ass to scan then i'll use the self checkout because it's not worth wasting other peoples time that might be waiting in line behind me. plus being a cashier myself years ago i absolutely hated having to scan that crap so why make some one else suffer doing what i hated.

either way the kiosk thing is going to depend on the region/city you're in i feel.. out here where i live it would fail miserably because technology is above everyone's head and they'll just go some where else over bothering with that crap. barely anyone uses self checkout here as it is.

Yes, but you were paid to do that job by the company. So now I am paying the same price for a product as i was, and now i am the one scanning it, place it in a bag, push here, push there, Oh shit, that didn't work, have someone come over (once in a blue moon), so to me I am now doing the job said company also pays someone else to do, but they are getting the labor for free. Now i can understand also, what is my time worth? As I often measure many things that way. Is it worth my time to sit in this line, or be done much quicker....

I prefer self checkout to the random how shitty will the teenager or old person be today lottery. I'm faster and can ensure things go into appropriate bags.

Can't say i have had many bad incidents with cashiers, I also tend to be more on the pleasant side with people, kill em with kindness...(but nor Barney so dam happy you want to kick my ass type).

 

[rudy]

I don't consider myself a germophobe, but the last thing I want to do before eating my meal is smearing my fingers all over a giant touch screen that 2000 other people just touched. Some ATMs look so nasty it's hard to use them, but at least I'm not eating fries right after that.

How about the door handle on the way in. Or anything else you touch. It doesn't matter if you are worried keep hand sanitizer in your pocket.

The thing is though that only lesser well off ever seem to have to deal with the consequences of this philosophy. For instance, recently much was made in the news section of this forum of Marissa Mayer's big payday over what was a failure. A poor person fails and can't eat, a rich person fails and eats for a thousand lifetimes.

This isn't true, poor people do not starve in the USA, insane people starve. There are food banks, shelters, churches and all of that doesn't include food stamps etc.... We can say poor people have issues but its not because they don't have access to these services its because of something else.


Automation has been happening for a long time in the USA despite this our economy has not halted. Why is this? It is because automation creates efficiency and efficiency leads to productivity and that leads to value and value is where job creation really happens. One simple way to think about it is, now that you save $25 per week eating at fast food you can afford to hire someone to mow your lawn for you. Or you can afford to purchase a niche piece of art to hang on your wall that was hand made by a guy a couple blocks away, or states. We just have a very very skewed idea of what a basic living is in the USA. The bay area is a good example all these people crying about gentrification and wanting increased wages etc.... I know it sucks to be displaced but its reality happens to lots of people including high skilled people I work a very specialized job it was a choice I made, not something that will be automated but I will adapt if it is. The down side is I am forced to move half way across the country to get a job each time work dries up. You have choices in life you have to figure it out. I think the bigger issue is too many people think that they should be able to get any job and work the rest of their life in it. And when ever anything changes around them that makes them change their lifestyle they want the government to fix it. Case in point rules to lock rent in gentrified areas. But all that happens is the government creates a new economy like oh say people with grand fathered rent deals just making money renting their place to someone whom is willing to pay more. In the case of fast food its automation.

Ultimately remember who it is that made the choice, its us, you and me, each time we choose service and how much we pay we might be killing a job. But oh well those McDonalds fries are just to die for! The corporations are just giving us what we voted with our dollars for.

I find it ironic, a lot of people complain about ordering issues, I have always thought it was odd that McDonalds and others have such total garbage speakers at drive through, really? Like this is your life line to the consumer and I can't even understand what they are saying through that microphone and your beat up horrible speaker. Now you want to spend millions developing special kiosks but you couldn't buy decent speakers.....That doesn't exactly instill confidence you will get the kiosks right.

Also fast food employees really like to complain about wages etc... But IME they are the least skilled of the service industries. They just screw up orders so much. Even if it cost the exact same amount of money companies would still be motivated to replace them simply because machines probably wont screw up so many orders.

Ultimately the technology will not work perfectly, but the customers will come to a medium compromise. This is more or less what has happened with automated check out at grocery stores. Over the years at has become much better at what it does. Less redundant questions, more accurate scales, faster scanning. and the customer has become better at dealing with the nuances. Just like they would deal with the nuances of a human cashier.

 

[Dekoth-E-]

Yes, but you were paid to do that job by the company. So now I am paying the same price for a product as i was, and now i am the one scanning it, place it in a bag, push here, push there, Oh shit, that didn't work, have someone come over (once in a blue moon), so to me I am now doing the job said company also pays someone else to do, but they are getting the labor for free. Now i can understand also, what is my time worth? As I often measure many things that way. Is it worth my time to sit in this line, or be done much quicker....



Can't say i have had many bad incidents with cashiers, I also tend to be more on the pleasant side with people, kill em with kindness...(but nor Barney so dam happy you want to kick my ass type).

Kindness has zero to do with their ability to do their job right. I don't care how nice they are if it takes them forever to bag things or are cramming canned items on top of the bread. Like I said, I can do it faster and make certain things are bagged right. You're assumption that I'm unpleasant borders on insulting when that isn't what I wrote.

 

[heatlesssun]

This isn't true, poor people do not starve in the USA, insane people starve. There are food banks, shelters, churches and all of that doesn't include food stamps etc.... We can say poor people have issues but its not because they don't have access to these services its because of something else.

I was speaking metaphorically. Failure at some levels is often rewarded. Failure while poor not so much. It is something that many across the political spectrum see as a double standard.

 

[Exavior]

Kindness has zero to do with their ability to do their job right. I don't care how nice they are if it takes them forever to bag things or are cramming canned items on top of the bread. Like I said, I can do it faster and make certain things are bagged right. You're assumption that I'm unpleasant borders on insulting when that isn't what I wrote.

Exactly. I have dealt with many people that are very kind, but can't do their job with a damn in many different job areas. I have had wait staff that while very nice couldn't remember things correctly, screwed up orders, forgot to put them in... They were very nice and very apologetic about their actions, but that doesn't change that I once waited an hour for my food to come out when they didn't even put in my order.

 

[Staples]

I did not read the whole thread but I came across many replies of "unskilled labor ..."

Machines will be replacing a lot more than that so don't get too comfortable on your high horse.

 

[Gorankar]

I did not read the whole thread but I came across many replies of "unskilled labor ..."

Machines will be replacing a lot more than that so don't get too comfortable on your high horse.

Lawyers, or at least the jobs lawyers take while trying climb the ladder, will be some of the first professional jobs replaced by AI. The worst part is that it will just be a program on a PC, not some complicated machine attached to a PC, just a program on a PC, and eventually, on their smart phone.

 

[jlbenedict]

Amazon will be delivering fast-food within the next two years. Mark my words.

In addition to being able to purchase it with your EBT card

 

[MrGuvernment]

Kindness has zero to do with their ability to do their job right. I don't care how nice they are if it takes them forever to bag things or are cramming canned items on top of the bread. Like I said, I can do it faster and make certain things are bagged right. You're assumption that I'm unpleasant borders on insulting when that isn't what I wrote.

Then you read it wrong and that is not what i wrote, i did not say you were unpleasent, i was saying I kill em with kindness, you want to be an ass to me, I will be nice to you, then go tell your manager what a cunt you were to me and let it go that way.

I do agree it is awful when they bag things wrong (i used to pack for my grandmother as a kid when we went for that exact reason you noted!), but I also put things out in order on the belt and i can't recall the last time someone packed it wrong.

 

[BulletDust]

High minimum wage results in lost jobs overall, and lost income. This has been proven now in multiple studies. This is just one article.

https://www.inc.com/minda-zetlin/do...esearchers-in-seattle-and-berkeley-duke-.html

People act like unskilled jobs are meant to be a way of making a living. Quite frankly if you are unskilled, YOU ARE REPLACEABLE. Unskilled jobs should be considered only for supplemental income to a skilled job. The only solution is to give people a skill. And that is a statement I believe Mike Rowe would more than support.

There was a time you could own a restaurant, or small home supply store, before the big box days. But franchise fees and increased competition, plus an unwillingness of owners and family to work the restaurant results in ever slimmer profit margins. So those days are over.

And as much as I hate to say it, and at risk of starting a political firestorm: High import tariffs on companies that outsource labor and closing off the border are a means of raising the means of creating jobs that pay higher here. But nobody is willing to pick over every box they buy to see if it's "Made In America" anymore.

If you undercut your neighbors job to cheaper labor, you undercut yourself eventually.

If a business owner can't afford to pay a liveable wage, than the business owner fails in business and should go back to being an employee. Fellow human beings are not a means to supplement one's desire to be a big, bad business owner at the expense of the employees own livelihood.

Jamb your extreme right wing point of view up your crack, trickle down economics is about as real as unicorns and doesn't generate jobs worth doing.

 

[Deleted member 93354]

If a business owner can't afford to pay a liveable wage, than the business owner fails in business and should go back to being an employee. Fellow human beings are not a means to supplement one's desire to be a big, bad business owner at the expense of the employees own livelihood.

Jamb your extreme right wing point of view up your crack, trickle down economics is about as real as unicorns and doesn't generate jobs worth doing.

Yeah I got a reality check for you that's the way it is. That's how the world works. The reason business owners can't pay a fair wage, then blame over competition in the food market which all the big chains agree is a problem. Also blame the fact of mass scale making everything cheaper to sell driving mom and pop out of business. What the f do you think walmart did? Also blame the fact once a company goes public you are at the wills of stock holders. So you have to find any way you can to keep profits in line.

Don't blame me. That's just how the world works. Now get a damn job with a skill and stop blaming me for your life problems and bad decisions.

 

[dvsman]

If a business owner can't afford to pay a liveable wage, than the business owner fails in business and should go back to being an employee. Fellow human beings are not a means to supplement one's desire to be a big, bad business owner at the expense of the employees own livelihood.

Jamb your extreme right wing point of view up your crack, trickle down economics is about as real as unicorns and doesn't generate jobs worth doing.

What is your position on immigration? The reason I'm asking is because illegal immigrants don't come in and steal engineering or design or scholarly jobs, they come in and take no-skilled / low-skilled jobs. Guess what minimum wage jobs are? You can't be for letting everyone in and fighting to raise the minimum wage at the same time.

The only reason no-skilled/un-skilled jobs do not pay more (like in Europe or anywhere else) is because the supply of workers (re: illegal immigrants) outnumbers the demand. Reduce the amount of illegals (supply of workers) and the wage paid for landscaping or car-washes or fast foods or unskilled construction jobs will go up naturally due to market forces.