Wall Street Cheers Replacement of Cashiers with Digital Kiosks

Evil Scooter

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Here, I'll help you out:

"Free education" means if you're too poor to owe taxes, it's completely free. If you owe enough to pay taxes, you pay for it indirectly from a percentage of your taxes. If you're wealthy, you may pay more for it indirectly than you would if you paid just for yourself privately, to offset the costs of others. Wealthy people tend to be against this. Everyone else generally sees it as a good thing.

Still not "free" just because someone else is footing the bill... so helping.. not-so-much.

But more to your latter point, liberals are good at spending other peoples money to make themselves feel good.

Socialism is great until you run out of other peoples money to spend..
 

Evil Scooter

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Ah the Gospel of Reagan. The thing is that Europe people and businesses have been paying higher taxes for decades post WWII and their economies were generally running just fine so this comment by him is obviously false.

Methinks you have comprehension issues as nothing in what you just wrote address what was stated in the quote.
 
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GoldenTiger

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Or use purell :D.

Edit... That was in response to sanitary concerns about the screens.
 
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gulguran

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I've never been a fan of the damn kiosks anywhere they install them. I like to interact with people not keypads. I figured this was going to happen though with the whole push for a $15 living wage making its way through the service industry.

I have always felt that what they pay people causes them to get people I don't really want to interact with. Sorry I don't want to be checked out by some gross ham planet that could not be bothered and would rather be anyplace else. People used to make enough money at a job to actually give a shit at all about it.

Go to a place like Walmart, I'd rather drop dead half the time than even interact with their employees, they are one step up from amoebas. That being said, I hate them even more for the kiosk bullshit because what that says is that instead of hiring people that are a joy to interact with, they care so little they just use a machine.

Online is the way to go now-a-days. I buy almost everything made in the USA, get a nice handwritten note from most vendors because they are small and give a shit and pay people that care. Also the warranty more than makes up for the extra cost. Things like McDonalds are fucking cancer anyway.

So In N Out, they don't seem to have this problem right? Why is that? I bet Chick Filet or whatever their name is doesn't either.
 

nilepez

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At $7, $8 maybe up to $10 they are adding value, maybe. What additional value is added once the rate goes to $15?
And yes, that's exactly why those processes get automated.

They've been doing self serve cash registers at grocery stores for over 10 years (maybe 15) and Minimum wage is 7.25. And this doesn't really replace anyone, it simply eliminates lines and gets the orders to the cooks faster. My last trip to McDonalds they actually served my food. Besides, Minimum wage isn't 15 dollars. It's not going to be 15 dollars, except in a few places where the cost of living warrants it. 15 buck/hour in SF, NYC or Chicago (to name just a few high rent areas) is nothing.

As far as a national Minimum, the odds of it becoming 10 bucks (never mind 15) is slim and none, unless the house, senate and POTUS are all democrats, and that ain't happening anytime soon either.
 
D

Deleted member 126051

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LOL they absolutely are. How expensive do you think the hardware and UI developent are? These are not multi million dollar machines.

Maybe for McDonalds Corporate, no.

But I can pretty much guarantee they cost franchisees a LOT more.

And that's not including the costs to install and integrate them.


Electricity + the labor cost of a 2 min. wipe down every now and again aren't exactly shocking on going costs. Yes they'll occasionally break, but this isn't new tech at all being used here.

I'm talking about more than simple operational costs.

You're struggling to make mountains out of molehills here.

This is because I understand the situation better than you do.

edit: I also like how you're not even going to try to defend your earlier comments blaming $15/hr labor as the cause of this automation either.

You're familiar with the concept of a tipping point?


But hey, don't let me stop you from politicizing this.
 

tetris42

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Still not "free" just because someone else is footing the bill... so helping.. not-so-much.

But more to your latter point, liberals are good at spending other peoples money to make themselves feel good.

Socialism is great until you run out of other peoples money to spend..
Well no, getting something without having to pay for it is pretty much the definition of free. If you go to a party and there's free beer, guess what, somebody still paid for that. It's still free for all the guests. Not for the hosts.

Yeah, "run out of other's people's money to spend." I've heard that phrase so much and never had it explained. Care to elaborate on that one? This stuff is funded through taxes. The vast majority of taxes are from income the person has made. Assuming you stay within your budget (that's a separate issue, conceptually you can scale spending to any intake level), you don't "run out" unless everyone stops making money. I'm not being sarcastic here, I honestly don't understand the concept you're touting.

I also like how this is framed as "other people's money" as though no one has a personal investment in it, when the reality is it's EVERYONE'S, including yours and mine. So there's no "other people's money" to run out of unless EVERYONE runs out of money. This phrase makes no sense to me at all aside from people not understanding the concept behind taxes, so lay it on me if I'm missing something.
 
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gamerk2

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I've never been a fan of the damn kiosks anywhere they install them. I like to interact with people not keypads. I figured this was going to happen though with the whole push for a $15 living wage making its way through the service industry.

This was going to happen regardless, for no other reason then cost. Every service job that can be replaced by technology, will. Simple as that.

This highlights why I've long been a proponent of a UBI. There simply aren't going to be enough jobs going forward to keep everyone employed, so the only answer that doesn't involve economic/societal collapse is to decouple money from work and directly subsidize the populace.
 

kju1

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Until i get a discount for doing someone else job at these locations i refuse to use them...

HomeDepot, you want me to scan, bag and do my own shit? give me a discount...I don't work for you so why am i doing your workers job for you?

I know, I know, it can be faster and quicker to just hit a screen or use an app, call me old fashion (only 37...)

Also i call BS on they will simply give people other jobs to do, you are now cutting out a role a person had to do, while you already had all other positions staffed.. this WILL let you fire people and have less overhead.

I've never been a fan of the damn kiosks anywhere they install them. I like to interact with people not keypads. I figured this was going to happen though with the whole push for a $15 living wage making its way through the service industry.

And the above are the reasons why I actually would use a kiosk instead of a manned checkout line. Cashiers are slow, they make mistakes, and they want to make idle chitchat with you. I am not interested in any of that.

I refuse to use those self checkouts for two reasons:
1 I don't want to contribute to some unfortunate individual losing their job

I could care less about this. There is plenty of work out there. I am not going to hold back society just so you can be employed when theres plenty of other types of labor that you can do.
 

mesyn191

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Methinks you have comprehension issues as nothing in what you just wrote address what was stated in the quote.
Nope. He was clearly talking about taxes there and its well known many European countries have had their businesses and citizens pay higher taxes for decades.

Maybe for McDonalds Corporate, no. But I can pretty much guarantee they cost franchisees a LOT more. And that's not including the costs to install and integrate them.
If McD Corp. wants to over charge its captive franchisee customer base then that is a different issue altogether since they'll overcharge for everything they can. Those kiosks are just a touch sensitive 27-32" screen and a very low end PC though hardware wise. There is nothing inherently expensive about them. Same goes for installation costs. They're not changing the structure or doing foundation work to install one.

You're once again struggling to make mountains out of molehills here.

I'm talking about more than simple operational costs.
Oh goody. What exactly might these much more involved operational costs that a kiosk this simple might entail be? Bear in mind that much more complex and expensive ATM's that'll get just as much if not more use are generally considered to have negilible operating costs when you reply.

You're familiar with the concept of a tipping point?
You have solid evidence that $15/hr is the cause McD's latest push to install these kiosks? Gonna need a citation here. I'd also point out McD's was installing these in franchises before $15/hr was a thing too.

But hey, don't let me stop you from politicizing this.
You're the one parroting Repub talking points and propaganda here.
 

dgacioch

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Its interesting to read all the viewpoints on the left/right and socialist/capitalist sides of the aisle on this. I myself get why a business needs to keep costs under control, but the ongoing elimination of direct human interaction to me isnt a good thing in our society. The next 10 to 20 years are going be interesting in the western world, either we figure out a way to create rather than eliminate more jobs or we have ever increasing unrest and violence.
 

Retronym

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Everytime automation is introduced into an industry it is not to make the work easier, it is GREED! Human Labor will continue to be cut in favor of cheaper machines only to reduce costs NOT TO IMPROVE quality of life.

Who will plough the fields?!
 

Gorankar

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Who will plough the fields?!
Actually some of the newer equipment out there does that already. The operator is there to put the brakes on if it messes up, and drive it back to the barn when it is done. Automation in farming has come further than most think. Crazy to think of it that way, but farming is about as high tech as it gets these days. With so much automated/semi-automated equipment, genetically engineered crops, and custom bred livestock.
 

nysmo

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I have always felt that what they pay people causes them to get people I don't really want to interact with. Sorry I don't want to be checked out by some gross ham planet that could not be bothered and would rather be anyplace else. People used to make enough money at a job to actually give a shit at all about it.
Well sure McDonald's could offer $40/hr and I'd be glad to run the register, and by god you'd get the best damn friendliest service you've ever had, and I'm fit and rather handsome too. You might have to pay $20 for a burger, if thats ok with you.

These wages are determined upon skill level. I'm sorry but my g/f was making $17/hr 5 years ago as an MRI assistant. She was pretty, sat at the front desk of a private institute, scheduled people, did various forms of paperwork and billing both electronically and written, took people to the machine, helped get them inside, worked with the actual MRI tech's to ensure proper scans, filed and sorted documentation / results, delivered them to the right staff, so on and so forth. Not rocket science but sure as shit more complex than flipping fucking burgers all day. No way should McDonalds be even close to par with what she was doing. Otherwise she could end up taking an easier job hanging clothes at Belks or something for similar pay, save the MRI stuff for something that pays $20+, which isnt really affordable for them, thus the whole thing doesnt do anybody any good.

Minimum wage jobs are for high schoolers. You dont have to have a degree to make it. I dont have a degree and I pull $64k/yr, because I took an interest in something useful and got good at it. The last job I made min wage at was something to do over the summer so I could buy N64 games.
 

Gorankar

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High school kids have a harder time getting those min wage jobs anymore. They are competing with adults, the elderly, and illegals, that do not have the same schedule conflict as kids still in school have.
 

tetris42

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I dont have a degree and I pull $64k/yr, because I took an interest in something useful and got good at it.
That actually puts you in the top 25% of earners. If it was combined with your girlfriend's income, that puts you in about the top 17% of all households in the country (going from percentile calculators).

I agree that these jobs are intended not to be living wage jobs, but that kind of emphasizes that there might not be enough living wage jobs to go around already. About half the nation earns less than $15 an hour. Of course individuals can retrain into higher paying jobs, I'm just more skeptical of some 75 million retraining into higher paying jobs.

I'm not advocating the minimum wage (I think that's a dead end), more that this is sort of the tip of the iceberg of a bigger problem.
 

DukenukemX

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I agree that these jobs are intended not to be living wage jobs, but that kind of emphasizes that there might not be enough living wage jobs to go around already. About half the nation earns less than $15 an hour. Of course individuals can retrain into higher paying jobs, I'm just more skeptical of some 75 million retraining into higher paying jobs.
The problem is a lot of Americans with degree's end up taking those minimum jobs, only because that's all they can find. Even though those jobs aren't meant to make a living wage, there's a lot of people depending on it for a living. We say things like people need to train for better jobs, but the fact is lots of Americans are already working at jobs they're overqualified for. Since the housing crash a number of Americans have given up on getting good jobs and just got jobs.
I'm not advocating the minimum wage (I think that's a dead end), more that this is sort of the tip of the iceberg of a bigger problem.
A recession is about to happen, and it's going to be big. Yea the amount of people without jobs is low, at least what's reported on the news, but when 50% of Americans are earning $16k a year, that's a big problem. And lately companies are lying about the amount of people they're going to hire this year. Probably to make themselves sound like they're doing better than ever. But one things for certain, no matter how McDonalds spins it, next year the amount of employee's working for them is going to start declining. Why else put in those kiosks? Also, why is wall street excited for having these stupid things? McDonalds isn't going to make more business, especially with many reports of millennials not big on eating out. It's all about having less workers, and therefore more profit.

 

NoOther

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There is a lot of back and forth in here that I didn't have time to really read. But I got the gist of many things people seemed to be saying.

US is behind other countries with higher minimum wage.
Automation will kill jobs
Automation will drive wages lower.
Automation is in response to higher wages.
Blah Blah Blah

Going to use the McDs and $15/hour as a reference. Each of those only have partial truth to them. The reality is the US pretty much has a one size fits all minimum wage system, other countries don't. Other countries have lower wages for younger workers. In those other countries where adult wages are higher and youth wages are lower, companies like McDs tries to higher many younger people. Also in those countries the food is more expensive. Also in those countries McDs has moved to more automation already. So yes, higher wages caused McDs to think more about automation and put it in place overseas. Yes McDs hires less employees overseas. Yes McDs charges more for the food because of higher wages. And yes McDs still makes a good profit even when paying higher wages.

Also note that not all of those countries that are moving to all these models and "first world" benefits are doing well. Also many of them are much smaller than the US and have different makeups, different exports, etc.

The problem is not the wages, its the immediate impact you create by escalating it so quickly on a system designed for a completely different wage set and makeup. McDs could rebrand all their stores here the way they do overseas, but it would be a monumental cost and massive effort to makeover all the stores to the way they do business elsewhere. The same with many other companies. The key is to gradually phase in the things they do overseas (like automation) and progressively move to better model where the employees can get a better wage. Also overseas they recognize that not all jobs are meant to be permanent jobs to live off of and allow for lower wages to youth who may make up a large chunk of those jobs. We should consider the same thing.

As for automation it creates jobs as well. Automation is a huge industry in the United States, we export are expertise in automation to other countries that are using it, while we battle it ourselves here. Even with automated systems you are still going to require some human interaction to monitor systems, maintain them, deal with customer issues, etc. So while it will replace some jobs, it will create some jobs as well. Will it be equal parts? Probably not. But if you want higher wages, you are going to make sacrifices somewhere and this will be one of them.
 
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we've had those here(alberta) for quite a while. I walk right past em and go to the counter. those POS kiosks take too long!
does anywhere even have the $15/hr min in place yet? I know Canada doesn't....

Where ya been? Ontario Liberals passed the bill to increase minimum wage to $15. Hilariously enough, they made the announcement down the street from where I work at a robotics company that specializes in automated manufacturing. Unsurprisingly, they were quite happy about the whole thing! :whistle:
 

lcpiper

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Until i get a discount for doing someone else job at these locations i refuse to use them...

HomeDepot, you want me to scan, bag and do my own shit? give me a discount...I don't work for you so why am i doing your workers job for you?

I know, I know, it can be faster and quicker to just hit a screen or use an app, call me old fashion (only 37...)

Also i call BS on they will simply give people other jobs to do, you are now cutting out a role a person had to do, while you already had all other positions staffed.. this WILL let you fire people and have less overhead.


I agree, I had the same feeling when these first started showing up at grocery stores and Home Depot, etc. I still feel this way but my wife drags me through it anyway though I don't understand why. Most of the time I have to engage some help anyway so it's really note saving me anything.

But I would add something to what you say here about "this WILL let you fire people and have less overhead."

I think you are correct in that it will create this opportunity. But I also think it's entirely possible that McDonald's does want to experiment with transitioning the entire experience and this would allow them to do so.

If you pushed these kiosks to the dinner table, people would just walk in, sit down, order their food and swipe their card. Now those three to five cashier types are going to be delivering that food to the table and engaging the customer more in a server role. I'm not sure I see tipping becoming huge and yet it isn't outside the bounds of reason. This could be transformative for the chain and if the whole experiment fails, so what, they can still fire those people and lower their overhead. We'll just have to get our ass out of the booth and go pick up our food when they call our number.
 

NoOther

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I think you are correct in that it will create this opportunity. But I also think it's entirely possible that McDonald's does want to experiment with transitioning the entire experience and this would allow them to do so.

If you pushed these kiosks to the dinner table, people would just walk in, sit down, order their food and swipe their card. Now those three to five cashier types are going to be delivering that food to the table and engaging the customer more in a server role. I'm not sure I see tipping becoming huge and yet it isn't outside the bounds of reason. This could be transformative for the chain and if the whole experiment fails, so what, they can still fire those people and lower their overhead. We'll just have to get our ass out of the booth and go pick up our food when they call our number.

Automation creates some jobs and may transition some roles. Around here the Hardees/Carl's Junior model has them bring you your food and clean up after you and ask you if you want any condiments, etc. Not really a full waiter, nor is a tip expected, but it is a more engaging dining experience. It could also lead to McDonalds transitioning to a more local market menu like they have in places overseas which would require more cooks that don't just microwave or fry stuff. Suppositions could be made all day, but people are generally afraid of change no matter what for it takes. Decades from now they will probably be laughing at people that were so afraid of the "autmation" monster, much like people laugh at the horse and buggy. We have learned to live with industrialization in our past, just is just another extension of that same process.
 

lcpiper

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Automation creates some jobs and may transition some roles. Around here the Hardees/Carl's Junior model has them bring you your food and clean up after you and ask you if you want any condiments, etc. Not really a full waiter, nor is a tip expected, but it is a more engaging dining experience. It could also lead to McDonalds transitioning to a more local market menu like they have in places overseas which would require more cooks that don't just microwave or fry stuff. Suppositions could be made all day, but people are generally afraid of change no matter what for it takes. Decades from now they will probably be laughing at people that were so afraid of the "autmation" monster, much like people laugh at the horse and buggy. We have learned to live with industrialization in our past, just is just another extension of that same process.

I think you are right on the money here .... well except for that "people laugh at the horse and buggy" part. No one in this part of Arizona laughs about horse and buggys :D

I live 20 miles from this;

Tombstone_Rose_Festival_AZ.jpg
 

Simplyfun

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I'm an Egg McMuffin addict. I like their coffee. I hate their employees, this suits me just fine.
 

tetris42

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Automation creates some jobs and may transition some roles. Around here the Hardees/Carl's Junior model has them bring you your food and clean up after you and ask you if you want any condiments, etc. Not really a full waiter, nor is a tip expected, but it is a more engaging dining experience. It could also lead to McDonalds transitioning to a more local market menu like they have in places overseas which would require more cooks that don't just microwave or fry stuff. Suppositions could be made all day, but people are generally afraid of change no matter what for it takes. Decades from now they will probably be laughing at people that were so afraid of the "autmation" monster, much like people laugh at the horse and buggy. We have learned to live with industrialization in our past, just is just another extension of that same process.
So just as the car replaced horse and buggies, workers in the horse and buggy industry transitioned to other jobs around the auto industry. And just as robots replace workers, like the horse, they transition to uh...
 

Jehuty

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I think you are right on the money here .... well except for that "people laugh at the horse and buggy" part. No one in this part of Arizona laughs about horse and buggys :D

I live 20 miles from this;

Tombstone_Rose_Festival_AZ.jpg

Tombstone is great the first time you visit. I'm in Tucson - have you gone to Kartchner Caverns?
 

lcpiper

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dgacioch

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So just as the car replaced horse and buggies, workers in the horse and buggy industry transitioned to other jobs around the auto industry. And just as robots replace workers, like the horse, they transition to uh...

There has been a job transition but it hasn't been an entirely positive one, at least here in the states. When you start looking at all the big Midwestern cities/states/counties that used to manufacture stuff back in the day you notice that some of the biggest employers now are in the public government sector and healthcare and insurance.
 

Jehuty

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nightfly

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If you artificially raise the cost of labor, that will cause LESS labor to be used.
Or, if you can't cut any workers, you pay more and make less profit. Most people will take some profit over none anytime, but the uber rich are a monkey wrench in the works of that. Because they are so wealthy, that they can just shut down a whole company just for spite, and move it around the world.
At some point, you get so rich that you don't need the money, and can afford to hate your 'greedy' workers who want a living wage enough, to fire them anyway, because screwing them just feels good. Or, take your product off the market because you aren't making as much as you want to make, as is seen with the current insurance industry leaving certain markets just to make a point. They're not necessarily going into the red, they're just not making as much as they want to make. We've seen this maneuver by them before, back in the 90's in the New Jersey automotive insurance market, until one of their own went on the air and told everyone what was really going on. What should happen now, is the Federal gov't step in and offer medicare to those who have no open market option. After all, the private industry abandoned the market, right? But this will never happen. Because the republican majority will support the rights of the industry to rip off the consumer once again, and give the insurance companies whatever they want. Because if we don't legislate enriching the private sector pricks who rip us off, then it's socialism, right?

Or, the folks who truly believe that what they make is a 'premium' product, and lowering the cost would 'tarnish' the reputation of the brand, so they simply stop making whatever it is just to prove to the world how valuable it is. When the world doesn't come crying to their door begging to pay the exorbitant price, they blame someone else for their mistake. Sugar free Tang was once marketed alongside Koolaid and Wylers drinks; having the same great taste as regular Tang, it should be trouncing the competition. Only, the Tang was packaged in a pack of 4, for $4. The others? 6 for $1.99. So, They took the Tang product off the market, supposedly because of low sales. I write to the company, and get a response that as 'a premium product', they cannot sell it for less than the $3.99 price. Seems odd, as the concoction of ingredients isn't all that different from their lower priced competition. Then they repackaged it into individual packs to be used in 20 ounce water bottles, raising the price per ounce even higher. And they wonder why people stop buying their products.
 
D

Deleted member 126051

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You're once again struggling to make mountains out of molehills here.

Feel free to believe whatever you want. It's a free country.


You have solid evidence that $15/hr is the cause McD's latest push to install these kiosks? Gonna need a citation here. I'd also point out McD's was installing these in franchises before $15/hr was a thing too.

Solid evidence?

The timing? They've had kiosks in place in a couple dozen testbed sites FOR DECADES, they're now going to roll out to about 8% of their stores (which is approximately in line with their franchise remodeling schedule). Boosted by the fact that roughly 40% of their locations are also live for mobile ordering already?


You're the one parroting Repub talking points and propaganda here.


IDFP.jpg



Sorry, not playing your little tribal "us and them" game. But if you want to continue to play, go ahead. I've got better things to be doing.
 

pendragon1

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Where ya been? Ontario Liberals passed the bill to increase minimum wage to $15. Hilariously enough, they made the announcement down the street from where I work at a robotics company that specializes in automated manufacturing. Unsurprisingly, they were quite happy about the whole thing! :whistle:
its not in place yet. it ramps up to $15 for 2019, its still $11.40.
 

Evil Scooter

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^^^

Minimum wage fight may heat up after new study finds jobs and hours fell in Seattle

It’s one of the core questions in the debate over minimum wage: Does hiking the pay floor lead businesses to cut hours and jobs?

A much-anticipated study released Monday by a team of researchers at the University of Washington is likely to intensify that controversy — just as Los Angeles heads toward its own minimum-wage increase for large businesses, from $10.50 an hour to $12 an hour on July 1.

The new study has found that jobs and work hours fell for Seattle’s lowest paid employees after the city raised the minimum wage to $13 last year.

The analysis shows that jobs and hours for those workers declined faster in Seattle than in surrounding control areas, where the minimum wage did not increase.

. . .

Our preferred estimates suggest that the Seattle Minimum Wage Ordinance caused hours worked by low-skilled workers (i.e., those earning under $19 per hour) to fall by 9.4% during the three quarters when the minimum wage was $13 per hour, resulting in a loss of 3.5 million hours worked per calendar quarter. Alternative estimates show the number of low-wage jobs declined by 6.8%, which represents a loss of more than 5,000 jobs. These estimates are robust to cutoffs other than $19.45. A 3.1% increase in wages in jobs that paid less than $19 coupled with a 9.4% loss in hours yields a labor demand elasticity of roughly -3.0, and this large elasticity estimate is robust to other cutoffs.

These results suggest a fundamental rethinking of the nature of low-wage work. Prior elasticity estimates in the range from zero to -0.2 suggest there are few suitable substitutes for low-wage employees, that firms faced with labor cost increases have little option but to raise their wage bill. Seattle data show – even in simple first differences – that payroll expenses on workers earning under $19 per hour either rose minimally or fell as the minimum wage increased from $9.47 to $13 in just over nine months. An elasticity of -3 suggests that low-wage labor is a more substitutable, expendable factor of production. The work of least-paid workers might be performed more efficiently by more skilled and experienced workers commanding a substantially higher wage. This work could, in some circumstances, be automated. In other circumstances, employers may conclude that the work of least-paid workers need not be done at all.

Importantly, the lost income associated with the hours reductions exceeds the gain associated with the net wage increase of 3.1%. Using data in Table 3, we compute that the average low-wage employee was paid $1,897 per month. The reduction in hours would cost the average employee $179 per month, while the wage increase would recoup only $54 of this loss, leaving a net loss of $125 per month (6.6%), which is sizable for a low-wage worker.
 

chenw

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Oct 26, 2014
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3,977
Having ordering linked to an app on your smart phone will be next.

Sorry for being late, but that already is being done in some places.

Not sure if US has MOS burger (it's a Japanese fast food chain), but they already allow people to use the app to order food in advance and pick it up in the store. They even have cash cards that you can top up and link to your app to it so you can order and pay in the same go, and have the food ready to pick up when you arrive at the store. The stores are still completely manned though, and you can still order at the cashier.

McDonald's here are also heading down that path, they already introduced the case/reward card system now. Granted, those McD are owned by licensed 3rd parties, not run directly by McD.
 

kju1

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Mar 27, 2002
Messages
3,460
The problem is a lot of Americans with degree's end up taking those minimum jobs, only because that's all they can find.

Then stop getting degrees in useless areas or go to a trade school and learn a skill that will net you a higher paying job. Just because you got a degree doesn't automagically make you entitled to earn more. I am not going to hire an art history major to design a bridge...

NOTE: I am aware people are capable of working outside their degree fields. That is also their choice but it also means they essentially wasted their money getting "trained" in that field by getting that degree and not using it.

Yes, I live in Sierra Vista.

I work with one of the guys who is into the reenactments, the street shows. You know, the ones where they actually shoot each other ... with real guns, and real bullets................. :LOL::sick:


http://www.azcentral.com/story/news...e-gunfighting-re-enactment-two-shot/74203774/

I used to live there when I worked for Ft. Huachuca (JITC).
 

DukenukemX

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Jan 30, 2005
Messages
5,810
Then stop getting degrees in useless areas or go to a trade school and learn a skill that will net you a higher paying job. Just because you got a degree doesn't automagically make you entitled to earn more. I am not going to hire an art history major to design a bridge...

NOTE: I am aware people are capable of working outside their degree fields. That is also their choice but it also means they essentially wasted their money getting "trained" in that field by getting that degree and not using it.
Why is it when people talk about degree's it's usually some silly degree like Art History major? I really doubt that many people went to school to be a clown or learn woman's history. I have no idea what trade schools are but when you're in high school everyone tells you to go to college and get a degree. Now its trade schools, which I have no idea what they do. I doubt many people are aware of them as well. I really doubt they're free, as anyone who made the mistake to go to college probably can't afford even trade school, since they're now working a minimum wage job to pay back their student loan.
 

DejaWiz

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Apr 15, 2005
Messages
21,250
People have been doing this for decades with online purchases (remember the old Computer Shopper tomes filled with ads listing phone numbers to "call and order now" before the internet?)...and even longer at self-service gas stations. It was inevitable that a similar checkout system was widely implemented in physical stores.
 
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Why is it when people talk about degree's it's usually some silly degree like Art History major? I really doubt that many people went to school to be a clown or learn woman's history. I have no idea what trade schools are but when you're in high school everyone tells you to go to college and get a degree. Now its trade schools, which I have no idea what they do. I doubt many people are aware of them as well. I really doubt they're free, as anyone who made the mistake to go to college probably can't afford even trade school, since they're now working a minimum wage job to pay back their student loan.

Trade schools are often just other classes at most colleges. Most local colleges will have trade classes, many are only a year or two for a cert, lots of demand and many companies hire straight out of the school, many will have HR people who go to the school for sign up days and talk to kids and hire them as soon as they finish.

My cousin did this, very little schooling cost, finished his classes, got his cert, went to work a week after, started at 25/hr (south Texas, that's good money). He has been there a while now in the same job role and is about 50/hr now. You also can't just get ANY old cert, just like getting a degree, you need to research what is in demand and what is in demand in your area, unless you are willing to move. People have this idea they will get a degree or cert that THEY want to do, which is fine...But you should be ready to be without a job for a long time, if you ever do get one, sorry to say, you need to get something useful that other people want/need. I hear all the time from clients about how hard it is to find workers, so many looking for people, just no one taking the classes or trying, people want to do their own thing and expect to be rewarded for it and have a job waiting and handed to them.
 
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