W7 can't ping internal network by host name

Discussion in 'Networking & Security' started by tgabe213, Jan 12, 2010.

  1. tgabe213

    tgabe213 2[H]4U

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    Here's my original thread. I closed it and am moving it to the Networking Forum.

    Please review it and try to help me out. I'm absolutely lost and it is driving me crazy.

    DNS settings have been switched back to 156.154.70.1 and 4.2.2.6 after the last post of the original thread.
     
  2. tgabe213

    tgabe213 2[H]4U

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    I noticed that when I run ipconfig /all, it lists 3 DNS servers. The 2 that I entered as static in my router, and 1 from my ISP.
     
  3. tgabe213

    tgabe213 2[H]4U

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    Gave some good information, but that was directed more towards external sites. I can hit the internet and do anything fine. Pinging the computer name of any other pc here isn't working. I can view all the PC's and their names when I go to W7's list of computers on my network.
     
  4. djBon2112

    djBon2112 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Wait, so let me get this straight: You're using external DNS servers, but you want to ping something on your local network with a hostname. Am I correct? If so, that's your problem. You need to set up a manual DNS entry in your router, or your own DNS server, to map that particular name to that particular IP. An external DNS server has no idea about the hostnames in your network.

    Entering a computer name in to Windows Explorer is NOT the same as DNS, which is what is used when pinging.
     
  5. tgabe213

    tgabe213 2[H]4U

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    My DNS servers are 2 DNS servers I manually entered into my router. I entered them where it is asking for Static DNS servers. I know an external can't see inside my network. I thought setting static DNS servers in my router would force me to use them rather than the ones provided by my ISP.
     
  6. tgabe213

    tgabe213 2[H]4U

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    I removed the 2 DNS servers from my router and rebooted. Pinged my server name and got a response.

    Does this mean I need to pick between either my own DNS servers, or being able to connect with host name?
     
  7. thee_rook

    thee_rook [H]ard|Gawd

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    You should be able to elevate the level of DNS server control. One has precedence over the other. Are you just wanting to ping names or you actually having an issue connecting anything name wise?

    I think even if you have DNS set to look at the ISP dns server it will come back eventually do to routing tables, as long as you are not on a domain. Then the domain may not let your computer do certain crap from outside the domain.

    I guess I am confused on the exact problem you are having, but you have switched a lot of shit around figuring it out.
     
  8. djBon2112

    djBon2112 [H]ardness Supreme

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    I think we need a bit more information here... What are the computer's FQDNs? Their IPs? I'm assuming this is a home network because you have WHS, so what router do you have? ISP?

    I ask because I don't think you understand how DNS works with NAT in a local network. You can use whatever external (in your router) DNS servers you want: none of them (with the possible exception of ISP ones; I'll get to that) will know the name of your servers because they're not in their records. Your ISP ones (from my experience) shouldn't see them either, especially if you're behind a router providing NAT. However, I don't know what you're using, so they may be able to.

    The bottom line is, you have to enable some sort of DNS forwarding, or static DNS records, in your router in order for this to work the way you want it to. Or set up a DNS server within your local network.
     
  9. tgabe213

    tgabe213 2[H]4U

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    All I was trying to do was to use static DNS servers (NOT provided by my ISP) for faster resolution. I placed them into the Static DNS section of my router and moved on.

    Not sure what the FQDN would be. Yes, this is a home network. ISP is Road Runner, router is a WRT54G. Not running a domain. My WHS has a static IP (192.168.1.121), and my desktop and laptops are both DHCP (192.168.1.100-105).

    I've removed both DNS servers from my router, rebooted, and I can ping the servers name now. It isn't just a matter of wanting to be able to ping. The reason this issue is being brought up again is because when I VPN in to work, I need to use the host names. I can't memorize the IP's of all servers and workstations (especially dynamic workstations).

    I was under the assumption of exactly what you said. That the DNS servers I put into my router would be used for internet only requests. What internally is telling them that hey, vhWHS is internal? Does it check local host names before internet?

    Side note that probably doesn't matter. Connection is set up Modem > wrt54g > dlink gigabit switch. Pinging host name of WHS works fine without DNS servers in my router.
     
  10. tgabe213

    tgabe213 2[H]4U

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    As it stands right now. I do NOT have any DNS servers set in my router.
     
  11. gimp

    gimp [H]ardForum Junkie

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    realistically, the Static DNS entries entered in the router wasn't causing the issue.

    It's because your PC was receiving the same DNS IPs as those entered in the router, instead of receiving the router's IP as the DNS.

    although as to what could cause that, I'm not sure.

    stock Linksys firmware? DD-WRT? Tomato?
     
  12. tgabe213

    tgabe213 2[H]4U

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    What do you mean receiving the same DNS IPs? What else would it get them from if not the router?

    Stock Linksys firmware.
     
  13. thee_rook

    thee_rook [H]ard|Gawd

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    The DNS servers in your router should look forward into the "wild" ie your ISP.
    The DNS settings for your NICs should look to your internal DNS or Router or ISP DNS's

    *EDIT*
    I also believe that you can point all primary to one comp or server if it is not running a dns server actively. It will hold DNS queries in memory and if it does not have it in memory it will look at the the DNS info you entered into that one comps NIC.


    My DNS is set to local DNS server #2 which looks to DNS server #1 if it cannot answer the query. [192.168.1.241 ->192.1681.240->Router]
    Then Routers IP address which forward all onto both ISP DNS servers if needed. [192.168.1.1 -> 69.xxx.xxx.xxx/69.xxx.xxx.xxx]
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2010
  14. gimp

    gimp [H]ardForum Junkie

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    basically what thee_rook said.

    your router is acting as the "middle-man" for DNS. So internal requests should be able to get answered by your router directly.

    when getting to an external hostname/website, your router would go out and ask one of the DNS servers it has been assigned (in this case, 156.154.70.1 first and if it could not answer, would then go to 4.2.2.6).

    basically... your computer should be asking ONLY your router to resolve hostnames to IP addresses.
    Your router will then go out and access those external DNS servers when the hostname is not within your network.

    but since your computer is going directly to those external IP addresses for DNS resolution, since they are external, they cannot resolve your internal computer's hostname.
    If your computer pointed to only 192.168.1.1 as a DNS, the issue shouldn't crop up.

    does that make sense?
     
  15. tgabe213

    tgabe213 2[H]4U

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    The DNS settings for my NIC are set to "Obtain DNS server address automatically". (Right click connection > properties > ipv4 > properties)
     
  16. tgabe213

    tgabe213 2[H]4U

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    How do I force it to ONLY look at the router? Change the setting I just mentioned and point it to 192.168.1.1?
     
  17. gimp

    gimp [H]ardForum Junkie

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    been a while since I've dinked with stock Linksys firmware, but I swore it was supposed to provide only it's own IP to the clients.

    but yes, you should be able to change the DNS setting to "Manually assign" and put in only the router's IP (192.168.1.1)
     
  18. tgabe213

    tgabe213 2[H]4U

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    I've been wanting to get DD-WRT going...
     
  19. tgabe213

    tgabe213 2[H]4U

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    So, is me having to put my routers IP and force my PC to use it for DNS the way you are supposed to do it when wanting to point to a specific DNS server? Like a 2 step thing. I added them to the router but never forced my NIC to look there?
     
  20. gimp

    gimp [H]ardForum Junkie

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    there are different ways to do it.

    Normally, you would only need to enter DNS IPs in the router, since all clients should (theoretically) look at the router for DNS.

    So it would basically be this:
    PC -> Router -> PC (internal network access).
    PC -> Router -> External DNS -> website

    basic jist...

    it is unusual (from what I remember) for your PC to receive the same external DNS IPs that have been manually entered into the router, as the router is supposed to provide it's own IP address for DNS via DHCP.
     
  21. thee_rook

    thee_rook [H]ard|Gawd

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    Don't the DNS addresses just forward through from the router in DHCP or doess the Router change them? I am running static DNS and have for a really long time.