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VW Says Its Tesla Model 3-Fighter Will Be $7,000 to $8,000 Cheaper

Discussion in '[H]ard|OCP Front Page News' started by Megalith, Jul 16, 2017 at 3:15 PM.

  1. Megalith

    Megalith 24-bit/48kHz Staff Member

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    VW seems hell bent on beating the Tesla Model 3 in every aspect: the automaker initially made claims that their first all-electric vehicle, “I.D. concept,” would beat both the Model 3 and Model X in range, and now they suggest that their attempt will be about $7,000 to $8,000 cheaper than the competition. That would put the I.D. concept at around $28,000.

    Volkswagen CEO Herbert Diess said earlier this year that “anything Tesla can do, we can surpass” and added that the I.D. Concept should beat the Model 3: “We are confident that in this new world we will become a market leader. [Tesla] is a competitor we take seriously. Tesla comes from a high-priced segment, however they are moving down,” Mr. Diess said, referring to the $35,000 Model 3, which enters production this summer. “It’s our ambition, with our new architecture, to stop them there, to rein them in.” The actual vehicle is a “Golf-size” all-electric hatchback based on the I.D. concept that they unveiled last year.
     
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  2. Ebernanut

    Ebernanut Gawd

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    Since it's VW that's probably just the price when you test drive it, then the price goes up in real world situations.
     
  3. bigdogchris

    bigdogchris Wii was a Novelty

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    Technology changes, improves, and becomes more affordable. Tesla will continue improving products and will certainly come out with an even cheaper model sometime in the future. Other manufacturers will do the same.
     
  4. Azrak

    Azrak Limp Gawd

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    VW. Let's see... I guess they figured out how to tweak the settings for their I.D. car so it beats the Model 3 in the EPA's electric vehicle range test. But in real-world driving, actual range will be 10% worse than Tesla.
     
  5. Dead Parrot

    Dead Parrot Gawd

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    If the production car is like the one pictured, won't survive many real world city streets with those one inch sidewalls and minimal ground clearance.
     
  6. Kibagami

    Kibagami Limp Gawd

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    IMO the electric cars from Tesla are the only ones that look like a vehicle I would WANT to drive. The Leaf from Nissan, that BMW whatever e-car, and that VW concept.. Look like cars styled by some committee where everyone got a say in the design direction ( ugly as that old Pontiac Aztek thing from design hell). I'm totally behind people who make electric monsters out of older cars, like that Mustang from a couple of years ago that was all over the automotive media, among others lately.
     
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  7. MarkVI

    MarkVI Limp Gawd

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    Often the car companies do this on purpose. Quirky designs discourage people that aren't willing to put up with technology that is still not all the way there. Think about the Honda Insight. It was goofy looking, and I don't think they wanted to sell tons of them. Tesla's strategy was different (start high end, work down) but both strategies keep the volume low and discourage any but the most passionate buyers, ones that will overlook the growing pains of the technology.
     
  8. vegeta535

    vegeta535 Gawd

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    I agree for the most part but I do find the I8 sexy.
     
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  9. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ 2[H]4U

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    if they pack it full of the typical volkswagen "quality" the engine light will be on in no time.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. M76

    M76 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Which I would give zero fucks about if it's really 8000 less.

    Well production cars usually look nothing like the concept car they're based on. Concepts are pure styling, production cars are made to be practical and to be cheap to manufacture.
     
  11. nightanole

    nightanole [H]ard|Gawd

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    Since when is any car 25% less than the competition? Chevy would own the midrange market if they could make a camry/accord that cost 25% less than a camry/accord.
     
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  12. mope54

    mope54 [H]ardness Supreme

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    The eGolf looks exactly like a regular golf, which has won numerous awards and seems to be highly regarded in looks, utility, reliability, affordability, and performance. Musk himself expects the average 3 price to be $40K and VW is already selling the highest eGolf trim at $35K. Coupled with the fact that VW will still have federal incentives to spare whereas Tesla's will be ancient history by the time anyone gets their hands on a 3 and VW could be beating Tesla by $10K or more. Unless Tesla changes the way they lease they are going to be looking at some significant challenges to their market penetration. Up until now, the big manufacturers haven't bothered to do anything more than dip their toes in. It took Tesla years to ramp up to where they are now but any of the largest manufacturers can do the same thing almost literally overnight. As far as I can tell, Musk doesn't much care since his goal was to shift the industry so even if that happens he'll be satisfied having successfully demonstrated that EV is a viable platform.
     
  13. nightanole

    nightanole [H]ard|Gawd

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    Egolf has a 24kw battery, the model 3 will have a 75kw option, and a 60kw base. If vw can get a 250mile range golf out for $32k, they might have a chance. Right now vw cant give the 100-125 mile range Egolf away at $22k for new ones rotting on the lot, even with the fed insensitive on top of that.
     
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  14. mope54

    mope54 [H]ardness Supreme

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    The 2018 eGolf is slated to have a 200 mile range, but the point of using the eGolf was an example of an EV looking identical to a "normal" version rather than a funky one as someone wrote earlier.

    The range of the 3, and any battery options, are pure speculation at this point. It's silly to argue that Tesla is going to be the only manufacturer with a mid-30K vehicle that can travel 250 miles on a single charge. Obviously every car manufacturer is going to have a 200mile EV out by 2020. The Bolt is already there at that price point.
     
  15. Dekoth-E-

    Dekoth-E- [H]ardness Supreme

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    I'll drive a motorcycle year round before I drive something that small and expensive again. Let me know when someone produces a decent sized vehicle with decent range under 30k. Until then these are just toys for people with more disposable income than me.
     
  16. JosiahBradley

    JosiahBradley [H]ard|Gawd

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    Will VW shave that dollar amount off by not being feature compatible. I'd love to see them release a vehicle with a hint of autonomous driving anywhere near Tesla.
     
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  17. Staples

    Staples [H]ardness Supreme

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    Tesla has a cult following just like Apple and Amazon.

    The better price won't win these people over.
     
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  18. TechLarry

    TechLarry Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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  19. Ocellaris

    Ocellaris Ginger Ale, an alcoholic's best friend.

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  20. JosiahBradley

    JosiahBradley [H]ard|Gawd

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    I highly doubt that is anywhere close to 35 grand. The Model 3 comes equipped with autopilot hardware for a fraction of the price and doesn't need a back massage chair. I'd totally be getting a Model 3 if the place I lived allowed chargers, but alas cities aren't really equipped for the future with infrastructure for mass dwellings and chargers.
     
  21. THRESHIN

    THRESHIN 2[H]4U

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    And nobody will be able or want to work on it like every other VW. But at least they can't lie about the emissions now.
     
  22. Azrak

    Azrak Limp Gawd

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    If VW actually had something to sell, this would be worth discussing. This is simply a pre-announcement perfectly timed to coincide with the Tesla production ramp-up and it is designed to confuse and scare potential Tesla/mid-price electric vehicle buyers into not making a move (ie: buying) right now.
    Tesla is now starting to manufacture the Model 3 and slowly ramp up production. Your move, VW. What's that? It's not coming to Europe until 2019 and no idea when it is coming to the US? What a waste of time.

    Not emissions, but range. RTFA and it already shows VW lied about the Tesla range in their chart. Those morons never learn.
     
  23. opfreak

    opfreak Limp Gawd

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    teslas have style? Since when? They are the most generic derivative looking cars on the road today.
     
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  24. Trimlock

    Trimlock [H]ardForum Junkie

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    A car is a tool, I do t care what my tools look like.

    Unless it looks like boobs, make them boobs.
     
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  25. Nanogrip

    Nanogrip Limp Gawd

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    Any Volkswagen from 99' and up tend to fall apart really badly... one of the most unreliable cars I've ever had the displeasure to work with. Anyway, this concept looks like the hundreds of cookie cutter electric car designs, they should design electric cars to look easy on the eyes and not look like kitchen appliances.
     
  26. mope54

    mope54 [H]ardness Supreme

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    The model 3 doesn't come with AP and we have no idea how much it's going to cost other than Musk saying average price will be 40K
     
  27. sirmonkey1985

    sirmonkey1985 [H]ard|DCer of the Month - July 2010

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    if VW can actually compete with them i agree, but right now tesla's way above any other manufacture that can come remotely close to competing with them in style, performance, and range.

    when you compare it to all the other electric cars or hell even hybrids on the road, i'll take tesla's "generic" style over the competition.


    Full Self-Driving Hardware on All Cars
    All Tesla vehicles produced in our factory, including Model 3, have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver.

    says it right on their website, ya might want to check next time, lol... obviously it's going to be an add-on price to enable it but the model 3 has it available.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017 at 11:51 PM
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  28. Semantics

    Semantics 2[H]4U

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    V.W. gaming EPA testing, don't be silly.

    What I think is more likely, tesla actually have proof of concept of production model. VW has nothing but PR spin
     
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  29. Verge

    Verge [H]ardness Supreme

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    Tesla is a luxury car manufacturer. Why would they come out with a 28,000 dollar car?
     
  30. Kuurus

    Kuurus Gawd

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    Elon Musk has always been more about innovation. If he can make it happen at a more reasonable price, I'm certain he will begin offering cheaper models in the (distant) future.... though they may not be offered with the "Tesla" moniker. It would likely be a side project with a different name and the addendum: "By: Tesla". However! Elon Musk has never been the type to travel the predictable path, but I doubt they will ever offer a new model of "Tesla" to the end consumer at 28k
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017 at 12:39 AM
  31. nutzo

    nutzo [H]ardness Supreme

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    In order to get the 200+ mile range they will probably install a tiny hidden diesel engine that shuts down during EPA testing. :eek:
     
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  32. Semantics

    Semantics 2[H]4U

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    They're a luxury brand because they're an early only electric car company, forced them to try to be up market as the base cost of making the electric car that's desirable was too costly for a lower mid market car. So spend a bit on interior and features which to justify the cost. In terms of actual luxury they are far from class leading because it's not the focus of the company.
     
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  33. cpy2

    cpy2 n00bie

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    The only competitor to Tesla is... Tesla.
     
  34. mope54

    mope54 [H]ardness Supreme

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    That doesn't contradict what I wrote. It doesn't come with it enabled (since you couldn't figure that out on your own from the context of the conversation) and it's not going to be included in the $35,000 dollar price tag (which was the point I was making--ever heard of missing a forest for the trees, bud?)

    Musk originally said they'd make a less expensive model but more recently stated that he doesn't see any need for one now.
     
  35. sirmonkey1985

    sirmonkey1985 [H]ard|DCer of the Month - July 2010

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    except that's not what the post you originally quoted was saying, he said "The Model 3 comes equipped with autopilot hardware for a fraction of the price".. he never said anything about it being enabled and you were the one that said it wasn't going to have autopilot and thus i showed you it would.

    it's ok though i did the research for you(and myself since i didn't know the actual activation cost).. prior to 2015 all tesla models had a tech package for the hardware and autopilot software which cost 4250 dollars when you pre-ordered. from the 2015 models and onward the hardware is now pre-installed on all tesla's and costs 2500 dollars if added to your pre-order to activate autopilot or 3000 dollars to activate after the cars delivered.

    thanks for the tree though, it made for great firewood.
     
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  36. RPGWiZaRD

    RPGWiZaRD Gawd

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    Only one prob for me, the VW cars are damn fugly. Teslas are really nice looking cars. Not that I'm in for an EV right now but Tesla Model 3 would be my only consideration right now as others are just too depressing to look at. Nissan Leaf, LMAO, VW not much better based on early concepts I've seen.

    VW also has terrible track record on many models regarding reliability, my working mate can confirm "never again VW".
     
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  37. tybert7

    tybert7 2[H]4U

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    How about looks? I am pro tesla because they create electric cars that TRY to look good. Sometimes they fall short like the model x, but the rest made a good effort at not looking like trash. And frankly, in the US, hatchbacks are less popular. That is more of a euro thing.
     
  38. tybert7

    tybert7 2[H]4U

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    I agree that Teslas are not the best looking cars when you look across all options. But in the electric car world... THIS is what we've been given !!!!!!!!!!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    We are LITERALLY STARVING on the electric car front, and Tesla is the ONLY company so far to offer anything remotely good looking and not some Bestial monstrosity.
     
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  39. kju1

    kju1 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Talks cheap. In fact I think I will go ahead and build a car 25% cheaper than VW's electric car with a 2000 mile range. And do it in less time.

    See how cheap that was? I will believe it when they actually produce it en masse and not a moment sooner.
     
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  40. Gasaraki_

    Gasaraki_ Limp Gawd

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    Not if it looks like that...
     
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