Vista Explorer only supports 16'384 File Copy Operations !!!

B) i do ***NOT*** have those problems, i do ***NOT*** use Kaspersky

Yes, I tested for this specific issue.
 
Well if its all legal and your windows activation isn't borked then it has to be something with the naturalized version, because the English RTM versions of both 32 and 64bits have been working flawlessly for me for 4 months (Ultimate version on both BTW). No kooky re-boots, no file copy issues and I do transfer quite a bit of files on my home network and at work.
 
Hello Nasty_Savage

sit and wait - in 45 Minutes you will know more - probably irrelevant for you, i hope.

simmons
 
Hello

First of all thank you all around the world, from different forums, for your assistance to figure out the source of this big problem - for a ticking bomb to many other users ! Thanks to my wife, dog, psy etc. etc.

Finally i had to figure out myself what's going wrong - but tip's and so from all you professionals was very helpful and necessary.


Problem:

You can NOT copy more than 16'384 files with Vista Explorer (maybe the same for other copy and move actions outside of Vista Explorer) without a System Reboot - no matter if you do this amount of copy actions in one single step / peaces, or if you do it in multiple steps / peaces - no matter if you do it over minutes, hours, days months. As soon as you reach this limit of 16'384 files that have been copied / moved from somewhere to elsewhere, the system becomes unstable - and you MUST re-boot your system to have a stable situation again - up to the next 16'384 file-copies/moves.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BUT THIS SEEMS NOT TO BE AN ERROR OF VISTA, BUT IT SEEMS TO BE AN ERROR OF ***** Kaspersky *****.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I called Kaspersky this morning (Mr. Michaelis, Germany) and explained him the situation and how to reproduce easily the error. I told him to verify immediately and to mail feedback to me. Till now i did NOT get a mail from Kaspersky. As i told Mr. Michaelis that i will in any case inform the community today, i do it NOW without feedback from Kaspersky.

I think Kaspersky Internet Security is a good product, they just have some kind of bug - it seems.


What's happening:

probably, for performance reasons or so, Kaspersky uses fixed sized tables somewhere to store files they had "in theyr hands" - and the table management is not OK or not what we need.


How can we bypass til Kaspersky has fixed the problem:

Version a) boot from time to time - before you reach that limit of 16'384 files

Version b) un-install Kaspersky --- it is NOT enough just to DISABLE Kaspersky, you will fail anyway on that limit !!!

Version c) use some other tool to copy/move files, maybe it works (probably it works, when the tool BYPASSES Kaspersky !!!)


How did i verify:

- about 15 people suffering on that IDENTICAL problem have confirmed to me using Kaspersky (32 Bit and 64 Bit)

- 2 people suffering on that IDENTICAL problem have confirmed to me, after UN-INSTALLING Kaspersky all went FINE, after RE-INSTALLING Kaspersky all went WRONG

- myself, if have tested and verified, again and again, all kind of situations / combinations.

- some people have tried to reproduce the problem with simple steps, but the error did NOT occur --- all of those people did NOT use Kaspersky

simmons
 
Hmmm. Perhaps its a language barrier or I just misread something but I was under the opinion you said you specifically did NOT run Kapersky? Well glad you have figured it out. www.nod32.com for a Kapersky alternative. I can confirm to you that it works just as well as Kap and it does not have that problem.
 
Hello Nasty_Savage

No, this one was NOT a language bareer - i just made an mistake when telling that, sorry ! Myself i thought i tested it WITHOUT Kaspersky - that was wrong, i suppose. I walked in the trap of just disabling Kaspersky - and NOT to un-install it.

simmons
 
Good job Simmons!

Now I think I'll go try installing Kaspersky for fun. :D
 
hmm....is it that transferring 0 Bytes takes 5+ seconds?? The only other thing I can spot is the ass backwards way to renames the copy folders as it literally seems increment the number some times sometimes it adds another -copy to the end of the folder.
Hehe.

It's not the time to copy since Windows still needs to create the empty files.

The incrementation only occurred because I copied one folder. Then I copied the original and the copy. Then I copied the original, the copy, the second copy and the copy of the copy. And so on. So it's actually expected behavior (and frankly better than XP's "Copy of" prefix IMO).


@simmons2
Good to know that you've tracked down the likely cause of this problem. It's good to see someone take feedback (poignant or even almost flaming) well and then work hard to track down the true source of the problem once informed that your first hunch wasn't correct.
 
I just installed the kaspersky Internet Security 6.0 trial on my testbox and received the error.

good job Simmons. You get a star.:)
 
Hehe.

It's not the time to copy since Windows still needs to create the empty files.

The incrementation only occurred because I copied one folder. Then I copied the original and the copy. Then I copied the original, the copy, the second copy and the copy of the copy. And so on. So it's actually expected behavior (and frankly better than XP's "Copy of" prefix IMO).


@simmons2
Good to know that you've tracked down the likely cause of this problem. It's good to see someone take feedback (poignant or even almost flaming) well and then work hard to track down the true source of the problem once informed that your first hunch wasn't correct.

lol tell me, hahahhaha....
 
Hello ChronoReverse

Sure, my first hunch wasn't correct - but very close ! Unfortunately i do not have acces to the code involved. Even now there is a chance for other explanations - we will see. But probably - i hope - the problem will be eliminated soon.

simmons
 
NICE CATCH, SIMMONS! Many kudos to your persistence on this!

There are times when someone would not want to admit they are wrong. This is not such a time: simmons, I was incorrect in my thinking that you had mistaken my posts on methodology, and that you were possibly not isolating the culprit. I'm glad to say I enjoyed being wrong on this one, because your performance is a perfect example of the great nature of this forum, and how it can contribute to the community at large in a way that is useful, quantifiable, and makes the experience better for us all.

I just wanted to thank you for your work on this. Great job.

More importantly it's 2^14. Now I'm not alleging that this is what's happening, seeing how it's not happening to me, but it's pretty common for software to fail on numbers like these.

Not such low numbers, which was what I was focusing on. I know software would usually fail on a number divisible by 2 (and, most likely, also by 8 and possibly 10), but the exponents are usually far higher before failure occurs. At least, that's been my experience.
 
One thing I'll add from my own experience so far with Vista:

It sure seems a lot slower to me overall when it comes to file copy/move operations. I drag a bunch of stuff from one place to another and it just seems sllooooowwwwwww compared to previous versions of Windows. Copy/move something to or from a USB thumbdrive with USB 2.0 support and it just seems sllooooooowwwwwwww compared to previous versions of Windows.

I mean, copying a single 1GB file (a VOB file just for testing) from one partition on the drive to another - an 80GB 7200 rpm 8MB buffer drive on an ATA100 controller - and Vista says it's transferring at 3MB/s? Say it ain't so, Billy-boy, say it ain't so...

I'm not going to do benchmarks since it's a waste of time, all I can do is say I think it's slower than previous versions of Windows.

YMMV, as always.
 
One thing I'll add from my own experience so far with Vista:

It sure seems a lot slower to me overall when it comes to file copy/move operations. I drag a bunch of stuff from one place to another and it just seems sllooooowwwwwww compared to previous versions of Windows. Copy/move something to or from a USB thumbdrive with USB 2.0 support and it just seems sllooooooowwwwwwww compared to previous versions of Windows.

I mean, copying a single 1GB file (a VOB file just for testing) from one partition on the drive to another - an 80GB 7200 rpm 8MB buffer drive on an ATA100 controller - and Vista says it's transferring at 3MB/s? Say it ain't so, Billy-boy, say it ain't so...

I'm not going to do benchmarks since it's a waste of time, all I can do is say I think it's slower than previous versions of Windows.

YMMV, as always.

Tell me about it. Its slower than hell, it seems to spend alot of time "Calculating Time Remaining". Like I care, just move my files.
 
Hello

Thank you for thank's, bravo's, sorry's, go on's and so forth.

But that's not for me, that's for all of us, for the whole system (internet, how we use it, those made the basis decades ago, etc.).

First of all i think the go on's are for all of us - from problem reporter's to problem solver's - of course even for the man in the middle who makes his jokes and critizices. The most important rule (as i se it) is an acceptable level of respect to the opinion of the other's (what worked perfectly here, i think). So we always move forward, in little and in bigger steps.

Concerning THIS issue (about those 16'384 file limit) i will KEEP QUIET - FOR THE MOMENT !!!

KEEP QUIET - because now we can deal with the situation.

FOR THE MOMENT - because, even when Kaspersky or some others have patched, there is something to discuss SERIOUSLY about this issue (as representative example of similar situations).

Do you know what i mean ? Can you spot THIS ONE, ChronoReverse ? Those can spot it who had the error message on screen - like Frobozz (except me the only one in THIS thread ?). Most of you, i am sure, profit of many years of IT experiance. Those of you with architectural background will be welcome to participate such discussion - when interested, then prepare yourself as Frobozz did ( it's not to complicate to install Kaspersky and run the test - and then kick out Kaspersky ). Just look at the Error Message and ... think, think, think - but glide away a little bit.

Until Kaspersky or so has acted, i will KEEP QUIET now. Then i come back - to introduce another thread here, if not already done by one of you.

simmons

P.S.: do you think my english is lausy - or just horrible ?
 
P.S.: do you think my English is lousy - or just horrible ?
I've read worse. You conveyed the meaning to the people that needed to understand it. If language is designed for communication, you have achieved your goal.

Congrats on solving the mystery.
 
I have had the same problem , a bit different.

If i use COPY command to copy 5 Gig of data to another server Vista takes for ever to do that , very slow.

If i use ROBOCOPY to do the same thing it does that in 20 mins or so. I do not know why ?

If i do the same thing from a non-vista machine i.e. copy 5 G from Vista share to another server it takes about 20 mins.

Average speed with ROBOCOPY is 300 MB/Min , for larger sized files.
Average speed with ROBOCOPY is 7 MB/Min for ~1K sized files.

Thats a huge difference, any explanation and 'fix' for that?
Any help is appreciated.
 
Thanks simmons2, You've saved me a whole lot of pain trying to work out what this problem I was having.
Another way for a temp solution is to ZIP or RAR the files, this works fine.

Also, I mailed Kaspersky, and they said around a week.

Cheers
Kev
 
Hi!
I write from italy and first of all I have to thank simmons for the great job he made.

I am in this situation:

C) i ***DO*** have those problems, i ***DO*** use Kaspersky

I own a registered version of Kaspersky AntiVirus (non InternetSecurity) and have these "out of memory" messages while copying files form a disk to another.


I have upgraded to Vista 32bit on a brand new machine with new hdds.
I had to copy all my stuff from my old hdds to the new ones.

I have noticed these "out of memory" error while copying "too much times", NOT "too much stuff at a time".

I mean that I always copy about max 30Gb at a time, and most of the times I copy less amount of files, and never more then 16'384 files at a time, but after a few times I copy these chunks, I get the "out of memory" message.

The only solution I found is to Log Off and then Log On back and repeat the copying that just fails before I logged off.
This means that I have never rebooted to copy all my stuff.


Please let us know when this problem will be fixed!
Thank you.
 
This night I have transferred about 200Gb for an amount of files that it should be more then this 16,384 limit with Kaspersky installed and with no "out of memory" error appearing.

Has Kaspersky solved the problem and sent automatic updates to all users??
 
First of all great find, I was using Kaspersky as I have been looking at new virus software. I have now removed Kaspersky. I have used AVG in the past, and wanted to check it out again, but it looks like AVG assumes that a person running Vista x64 in not a home user and will not install the free version, nor will it install a trial version. so I am stuc with the pro version, but this is a pay product and right now I am looking to test it. So with this AVG fails my test. any other good scaners that I can get a trial for Vista x64 thanks...
 
This night I have transferred about 200Gb for an amount of files that it should be more then this 16,384 limit with Kaspersky installed and with no "out of memory" error appearing.

Has Kaspersky solved the problem and sent automatic updates to all users??

Any other confirmation that this bug has been fixed? I have a client using Kaspersky on a Dell Laptop w/Vista; He hasn't run into file copy errors (and has definitely copied more than 16,384 files) but his system is running particularly slow considering it is a nearly clean install w/ 2GB RAM & 2.33GHz C2D proc.

I might just ask him to uninstall Kaspersky tomorrow, but he probably won't be happy since he just purchased his license...
 
Any other confirmation that this bug has been fixed? I have a client using Kaspersky on a Dell Laptop w/Vista; He hasn't run into file copy errors (and has definitely copied more than 16,384 files) but his system is running particularly slow considering it is a nearly clean install w/ 2GB RAM & 2.33GHz C2D proc.

I might just ask him to uninstall Kaspersky tomorrow, but he probably won't be happy since he just purchased his license...

I might have a slow system too.
How can you say that the computer you refere is slow?
Are you talking only about the disk reading or "everything"??
What hdds does it have? What are its HDTach Scores?

Thank you.
 
I might have a slow system too.
How can you say that the computer you refere is slow?
Are you talking only about the disk reading or "everything"??
What hdds does it have? What are its HDTach Scores?

Thank you.

I'll investigate it again on Friday.

Everything seems sluggish. It's a Dell Optiplex w/ 2.33GHz C2D and 2GB RAM. It should be smokin fast, but there is a lot of latency in Outlook 2007 & IE7. I'll provide more details when I have them! (I know that this user is a fan of Kaspersky and he mentioned that he uninstalled SAVCE and replaced it with a recent version of Kaspersky... it could be Symantec remains causing him issues as well... or a driver issue)
 
Hello

...

How can we bypass til Kaspersky has fixed the problem:

Version a) boot from time to time - before you reach that limit of 16'384 files

Version b) un-install Kaspersky --- it is NOT enough just to DISABLE Kaspersky, you will fail anyway on that limit !!!

Version c) use some other tool to copy/move files, maybe it works (probably it works, when the tool BYPASSES Kaspersky !!!)


...

simmons

Thanks a LOT

Version d) open Windows Task-Manager kill the explorer.exc process an restart it with new task -> "explorer"

maybe it work better when you close you kaspersky client (Version 7.0.0.125, right klick on symbol quit) so the task and processes will closed and not stopped.

Sorry for my bad english, i m from germany :)

Greethings

mcluckey
 
My question to Kaspersky:

----------

Please read this thread for more details:

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1162423&page=5

(in particular this post)

http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=10...mp;postcount=84

I have just experienced this issue, with KAV using Vista Ultimate x64. As soon as I un-install the issue goes away.

Has this now been resolved? I am uneasy about using Kaspersky with Vista until this issue has been resolved.

Regards

Chris Morley.


Response from Kaspersky

-------

Yes, but is not a bug in Kaspersky. Microsoft support has patch for this: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/942435/

So it would appear Microsoft have developed a Hotfix for the issue described in this thread now. I assume this Hotfix is included in Vista SP1 Beta or is it available through Windows Update ??

Cheers, Chris.
 
I have been banging my head against a wall here with trying to move over a large folder from a 2nd drive during a vista reinstall, googled the out of memory error and found this thread eventually

Yes I have Kinternet security too

I've filled in the form for the hot fix

Great thread, thanks for taking the time to trouble shoot this and work out what was broken

Cheers!!!:D
 
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