HardOCP News
[H] News
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But...but...but....I thought the future of virtual reality is now! Or at least that's what they keep telling us. 
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Virtual Reality Has A Long Way To Go
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Youn
Supreme [H]ardness
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Lots of people are already shelling out hundreds for VR headsets. Why does a thing have to be in the hands of every person before it to be considered a success? What's wrong with it being one of many niche products available now?
Darunion
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The article is from macworld, that explains it. They don't see anything as success unless it is in every home, or at least until apple says it should be in every home.
Apple fangirl that wrote the article is clueless. I'm sure if Oculus had been acquired by Apple instead of Facebook, there'd be a whole different tune being sung at that site.
Anyhoo, tell all the people that stood in a 2 1/2 hour line at CES to try the latest Oculus Rift - with most saying afterward that it blew away their expectations - that VR isn't "anywhere near ready for mass adoption".
First thing I'm doing when I get the consumer Rift in a few months is firing up Alien:Isolation for the first time, with a 5-pack of underwear to back me up.
Anyhoo, tell all the people that stood in a 2 1/2 hour line at CES to try the latest Oculus Rift - with most saying afterward that it blew away their expectations - that VR isn't "anywhere near ready for mass adoption".
First thing I'm doing when I get the consumer Rift in a few months is firing up Alien:Isolation for the first time, with a 5-pack of underwear to back me up.
Define lots of people?
To be a success you have to at least sell enough to make a profit.
People didn't even like wearing glasses for 3D TV, and it flopped.
This will sell in even smaller numbers IMO. There is the whole puke factor to deal with.
Ur_Mom
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I don't see it as a mass consumer product. I see it as a niche product until there are applications that appeal to the masses. Get it in the hands of people first. Then decide if it's worth it or not. Long way to go, but it seems almost stalled right now.
Well considering they started with what? 10 million from Kickstarter and then got 2 Billion from Facebook? You have to concede that is not petty.
According to Palmer, he has the worst motion sickness and the latest prototype has solved it. As a user of the Rift, my understanding is that they are working with developers and software companies to make the rift compatible to existing software. Valve released it for HL2 and it works great.
I think it will remain niche for like 1-2 more years but once they apply economies of scale and get it to interface with existing devices (like ps4/xbox), well, that changes things.
And have you seen Riftmax Theatre? It's amazing.
Blowing away peoples expectations for a 5-10 minute demo and getting people to buy it for long term use are two extremely different things. As has been mentioned before in this thread. People don't like wearing shit on their heads, so the same reason that 3d TV failed hard is the same reason this will. Yes it will be successful as a niche product, but this expectation that it is going to be a mass consumer product is unrealistic.
Solved? Nonsense.
They might improve the latency to the point where stationary use (just looking around without motion) doesn't cause motion sickness, but once you actually move in game, a large chunk (I would bet on a majority) of the population will get motion sickness in short order.
There is no "solving" that. It is caused by motion seen by eyes, but not detect by the inner ear, not by technical limitations of the headset, that can be "solved".
I know you're convinced the Rift will fail for various - its evident every time there's a thread about it, but I don't really see the "3DTV failed so Rift will fail" analogue. I'm going to guess you & Snow haven't ever tried one of these units. I've used 3DTV glasses, and I've used both the DK1 and DK2 of the Rift for weekends at a time (borrowed from a friend), and they are worlds apart. You just get completely lost in the game. I dunno, I think if/when you guys actually try one you might get some perspective and change your mind.
4saken
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Sorry i completely agree with the article. It's just not good enough yet. No matter what early adopters want others to believe or have to say to convince themselves. I want it, im just waiting for something better than the current iteration of VR products. They arent THAT good yet. Yes, have seen it, used it etc, impressed, sure, but not wow'd.
tenovertwelve
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I own an Oculus DK2 (along with a beastly enough system to run it well) and I have to say this isn't just another 3DTV fad. Personally I use it almost daily and what little software that exists right now is short, a little rough around the edges, but none the less impressive as hell. I have a hard time playing games on a screen anymore.
Turning your head to look around becomes so instinctive during gaming that losing that ability during screen based gameplay can actually be frustrating not to mention have the game surround you in stereoscopic 3D. The technology is going to advance quickly, I highly recommend trying it before passing judgment.
I've demoed it to quite a few people and most of them come away impressed at the least and utterly obsessed with it at the worst.
Turning your head to look around becomes so instinctive during gaming that losing that ability during screen based gameplay can actually be frustrating not to mention have the game surround you in stereoscopic 3D. The technology is going to advance quickly, I highly recommend trying it before passing judgment.
I've demoed it to quite a few people and most of them come away impressed at the least and utterly obsessed with it at the worst.
I can't even play FPS games on a monitor without getting motion sick, so there is no way in hell I would be able to make any use of VR goggles. A significant portion of my friends are even more sensitive to motion sickness than I am (even having issues at movies, where I don't).
Youn
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I think VR is more akin to headphones, and people seem ok wearing that shit. People wear hats and sunglasses too. Oh, and beards... guys all over wearing that shit on their faces. If there is enough incentive, people will do it.
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Women should only be allowed to write articles for Bon Appétit and Better Homes and Gardens.
Ur_Mom
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Neither are a lot of products. Most electronic products suck for the first few release revisions before they get anywhere close to good.
Hornet
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VR has to start somewhere, and just like any hardware, they will be constantly evolving all the time.
Just like when 3D graphic cards first came out, some people might say they still have a long way to go. Then we had hardware T&L, and on to programmable shaders. Was that it? of course not. It continued going on a long way, to unified shaders, to hardware tessellation, and who knows where it will go next. So at any point, it looks pointless to say "it still has a long way to go", as the hardware will always be evolving. And we just have to make the best of whatever we have at present.
Just like when 3D graphic cards first came out, some people might say they still have a long way to go. Then we had hardware T&L, and on to programmable shaders. Was that it? of course not. It continued going on a long way, to unified shaders, to hardware tessellation, and who knows where it will go next. So at any point, it looks pointless to say "it still has a long way to go", as the hardware will always be evolving. And we just have to make the best of whatever we have at present.
SilkySalamandr
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This shit covering your face along with gaming headset in the summer.
You all have fun with that shit.
You all have fun with that shit.
4saken
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Right, so that applies perfectly to the current state of VR.
VR has more legs than 3D TV. The whole 3D movie and 3D TV craze has been screwed from the get-go because they haven't been pushing the depth to make it more of a unique experience. They all look like a bunch of flat cut-outs stacked on top of each other, it's worse than no 3D at all. If you compare it to some 3D monster movies from the 50s, the experience is like night and day. We were doing a better job at 3D movies 60 years ago than we are today.
VR at least has the immersion part down. Whether that can break through to a mainstream audience is iffier, but it does mean there's going to be a core cult following to it because for those willing to put a device on their head, it's going to be a unique experience you simply can't get elsewhere in gaming.
It's going to be a big winner with the lone basement dwelling, hard core gamer, immune to motion sickness niche.
It remains to be seen how big that niche is.
griffinhart
[H]ard|Gawd
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It's also not profit. How much have they made selling units? Facebook has now invested 2 Billion into the product that's a pretty high bar and a lot of units to sell before it is successful
One size does not fit all when you are talking motion sickness. Because a single person that uses the device on a regular basis is less affected by it now doesn't mean the problem is truly solved.
Economies of scale won't make a difference if there isn't a true market for it. That only brings down the cost of manufacturing per unit. It really doesn't make a difference if you can halve the price of something that the general public doesn't want.
Even if Facebook can eek out a minor profit on the Rift, that doesn't mean VR will be a success either. It just would mean that Rift didn't lose money. Everyone in the world could have a VR device, but if they don't use them after the "wow factor" passes, it wouldn't really be a success story for VR in general.
I won't say this isn't niche. This is not like 3D TV. 3D TV was fix perspective, non interactive experience. The technologies that get the buzz are the ones that allow you to change perspective (a large part of how we sense 3D) Occulus allows you to change viewing direction. CastAR which sounds like its going to be trumped by Microsoft's take on VR allow you to change viewpoint and direction. Its entirely a different level. I would say 3D TV's lack of dynamic perspective actually made the effect more unnatural to most. An 'uncanny divide' situation.
having owned the DK2 now for a while and one who didn't like the 3d glasses.. I am loving the DK2 experience in the right context or game..
The first time I tried Bioshock2 and I walked around but then I looked up and I saw the inside of my big daddy helmet I knew this was going to be an awesome experience for games that really set the experience up.
for other games its not so great, for example - Dirt Showdown - it just doesn't work well for h ow they have the game setup, you don't actually feel like you are in the cockpit of the car..
but for a game like Euro Truck SImulator 2, its perfect, the cab feels roomy, the controls are all layed out for you nicely, turn around with the DK2 and looking out the window towards your trailer as you back it up into the delivery spot is a great VR experience.
Then there is Alien Isolation - I can't imagine playing this without the DK2, ultra immersive, the Scare factor of the alien goes up 10 fold with the DK2..
Elite is probably the poster child although for it to work well you really need the full X52 setup and DK2 - those combined and you can easily get lost.
but some other games just don't work that well and a lot of it is the design (its amazing how relative size of objects in a game can really make the VR experience)..
For me the DK2 feels a lot like the early days of 3dfx, not on such a grand scale, but very much an emerging technology that does have the potential to really change the way you play some games (but not all)..
for those on the fence, you get the chance to try it these are the games I would recommend
Alien Isolation (has a problem with the terminals feeling like they are right in your nose, but other than that - great experience)
Bio Shock 2
Euro Truck simulator 2 with a Wheel and Peddles
Vox Machinae - this is an amazing "MechWarrior" type game, they nailed the feeling of being in a giant Mech
The first time I tried Bioshock2 and I walked around but then I looked up and I saw the inside of my big daddy helmet I knew this was going to be an awesome experience for games that really set the experience up.
for other games its not so great, for example - Dirt Showdown - it just doesn't work well for h ow they have the game setup, you don't actually feel like you are in the cockpit of the car..
but for a game like Euro Truck SImulator 2, its perfect, the cab feels roomy, the controls are all layed out for you nicely, turn around with the DK2 and looking out the window towards your trailer as you back it up into the delivery spot is a great VR experience.
Then there is Alien Isolation - I can't imagine playing this without the DK2, ultra immersive, the Scare factor of the alien goes up 10 fold with the DK2..
Elite is probably the poster child although for it to work well you really need the full X52 setup and DK2 - those combined and you can easily get lost.
but some other games just don't work that well and a lot of it is the design (its amazing how relative size of objects in a game can really make the VR experience)..
For me the DK2 feels a lot like the early days of 3dfx, not on such a grand scale, but very much an emerging technology that does have the potential to really change the way you play some games (but not all)..
for those on the fence, you get the chance to try it these are the games I would recommend
Alien Isolation (has a problem with the terminals feeling like they are right in your nose, but other than that - great experience)
Bio Shock 2
Euro Truck simulator 2 with a Wheel and Peddles
Vox Machinae - this is an amazing "MechWarrior" type game, they nailed the feeling of being in a giant Mech
And for most people, most of that list would probably make them motion sick.
I've found its the same people who get sick on boats.
As with all things there are some that may not be able to do it. But for those of us who don't it really is a great experience
I just started playing lunar landers rift build and it's pretty good. It's pretty immersive where once you get the hang of the controls its a ton of fun. I didn't much care for the game before that
I think it will be quite a bit more than that. IIRC one development team gave up on preparing their game for the OR, because it made their whole team Motion Sick.
That is a group who probably logs a lot of time on 3d games on a monitor with no ill effects.
Well if you have motion sickness problems with 3D games on a regular monitor then sounds like you're an edge case that a Rift isn't going to be able to solve; ultimately, the what and why of motion sickness happening on a regular monitor is a whole separate discussion.
Trying to extrapolate personal bias into "most people" is a bit of a stretch, no offense.
I rather think it is the other way around. A few Sim-sick immune folks extrapolating their experience to the general public.
I am about average among those I know.
Here is the entry where they whole dev team got extremely motion sick and decided to back off on VR support:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/updates/92985806/1408024959
If it was a corner case it wouldn't have been the whole team.
Youn
Supreme [H]ardness
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Were they using DK1 maybe? DK2 solves the issue for many people and future kits I'd think would improve even more.
Also, motion sickness depends highly on the game itself, so their's may not be best in that regard.
Either way, I feel sad for the motion sick crowd. I'm one of them too, some games giving me trouble (HL2, not sure why)...
Also, motion sickness depends highly on the game itself, so their's may not be best in that regard.
Either way, I feel sad for the motion sick crowd. I'm one of them too, some games giving me trouble (HL2, not sure why)...
I think the point is it wasn't built by Apple.
Ur_Mom
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At the time, Atari was high quality, great graphics and amazing. So was the NES. Then the Genesis (SNES kind of paled in comparison!)... It's great and amazing until the next thing comes. The current state of VR is great, IMO. Better than it used to be by a long shot, and lots of room for growth.
I think expectations are too high, honestly.
When it rains it pours... Yesterday Valve announces SteamVR will be unveiled next week at GDC , and now its speculated that NVIDIA's big mysterious "event" at GDC may just be a reveal of their own VR HMD, that's been "5 years in the making".
http://www.roadtovr.com/nvidia-titan-vr-headset-gdc-2015-virtual-reality-reveal-made-to-game-event/
http://www.slashgear.com/nvidia-vr-headset-considering-the-possibilities-23370142/
If an Nvidia HMD materializes it would ofcourse plug into their VR Direct featureset; though hopefully VR Direct won't just be limited to an Nvidia HMD. We'll certainly know a lot more in a week's time.
http://www.roadtovr.com/nvidia-titan-vr-headset-gdc-2015-virtual-reality-reveal-made-to-game-event/
http://www.slashgear.com/nvidia-vr-headset-considering-the-possibilities-23370142/
If an Nvidia HMD materializes it would ofcourse plug into their VR Direct featureset; though hopefully VR Direct won't just be limited to an Nvidia HMD. We'll certainly know a lot more in a week's time.
When it rains it pours... Yesterday Valve announces SteamVR will be unveiled next week at GDC , and now its speculated that NVIDIA's big mysterious "event" at GDC may just be a reveal of their own VR HMD, that's been "5 years in the making".
http://www.roadtovr.com/nvidia-titan-vr-headset-gdc-2015-virtual-reality-reveal-made-to-game-event/
http://www.slashgear.com/nvidia-vr-headset-considering-the-possibilities-23370142/
If an Nvidia HMD materializes it would ofcourse plug into their VR Direct featureset; though hopefully VR Direct won't just be limited to an Nvidia HMD. We'll certainly know a lot more in a week's time.
This is going to be HUGE just like the steam box. oh wait....
crusty_juggler
[H]ard|Gawd
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Don't insult the glorious Steam Box. The two or three posters here who still believe that playing Crusader Kings with a touchpad will start a Linux revolution are going to start dogpiling you with image macros.