VideoCardz: AMD to introduce Zen3 on October 8, Radeon RX 6000 series on October 28

KazeoHin said:
That's just the world, my friend. These customers have friends who they play online with. They have youtubers they watch, They have streamers who they look up to, They have IT departments who advise them.

If you're a kid who gets a new PC as birthday present, and All your friends run Nvidia cards, and YOU run an AMD card, and when joining your friends online in a game, and YOU crash and nobody else has difficulty: You're going to get shit on by your friends for being poor and getting the poor man's computer with tons of issues. If your friends have issues and you don't: you're just lucky.

If you're an adult who has maybe two hours a WEEK to game and you just want something that is ready to go, and you see on youtube people talking about 5700XT black-screen issues: what are you going to choose? Yeah, these issues are almost all resolved
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but Nvidia cards never had these issues. You don't want to spend those precious few hours you have troubleshooting. So when you buy a new PC (something you may do only every 5-6 years) you go with the thing that you feel will give you the LEAST amount of grief for that half-decade you're going to be stuck with it.


Face it. The only way AMD can win in this environment is by being perfect. anything less than 100% perfection will be met with distrust.
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Odd sentiment for a guy that ditched Intel the old reliable never get fired for using to get a threadripper because it smokes anything Intel has. Plus Nvidia had some fun drivers like this https://thinkcomputers.org/latest-nvidia-driver-is-apparently-killing-gpus/ or even hardware failures like Space Invaders RTX style. Been to plenty of forums and plenty of people screaming on Nvidia, Intel or AMD hardware that their system is crashing. All 3 have had a serious failure of some kind over the years, just some choose to overlook certain companies failures.
 
KazeoHin said:
That's just the world, my friend. These customers have friends who they play online with. They have youtubers they watch, They have streamers who they look up to, They have IT departments who advise them.

If you're a kid who gets a new PC as birthday present, and All your friends run Nvidia cards, and YOU run an AMD card, and when joining your friends online in a game, and YOU crash and nobody else has difficulty: You're going to get shit on by your friends for being poor and getting the poor man's computer with tons of issues. If your friends have issues and you don't: you're just lucky.

If you're an adult who has maybe two hours a WEEK to game and you just want something that is ready to go, and you see on youtube people talking about 5700XT black-screen issues: what are you going to choose? Yeah, these issues are almost all resolved
...
...
...
but Nvidia cards never had these issues. You don't want to spend those precious few hours you have troubleshooting. So when you buy a new PC (something you may do only every 5-6 years) you go with the thing that you feel will give you the LEAST amount of grief for that half-decade you're going to be stuck with it.


Face it. The only way AMD can win in this environment is by being perfect. anything less than 100% perfection will be met with distrust.
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You aren't wrong, except on the last bit. There is another way to defeat that stereotype for AMD. It's the same way Nvidia dug themselves out when the FX series was flopping and ATI was taking huge chunks of the market.

They need literal fuck tons of marketing cash. They still have to have consistent competitive performance for a few generations (and a few homeruns will help too), but they will need a TWIMTBP campaign of their own to sell product to those people who play the "safe game" or those people dumb enough to believe all the tropes. Those people outnumber the sane enthusiasts who take time to educate themselves by an overwhelming majority.

Now whether they go this route is hard to say. History has shown they either don't have the capital to waste when it comes to marketing or they just weren't ballsy enough. Fortunately their leadership has changed and Lisa Su has more balls than most AMD leadership has had in it's entire existence. We shall see what happens.
 
Gideon said:
Odd sentiment for a guy that ditched Intel the old reliable never get fired for using to get a threadripper because it smokes anything Intel has. Plus Nvidia had some fun drivers like this https://thinkcomputers.org/latest-nvidia-driver-is-apparently-killing-gpus/ or even hardware failures like Space Invaders RTX style. Been to plenty of forums and plenty of people screaming on Nvidia, Intel or AMD hardware that their system is crashing. All 3 have had a serious failure of some kind over the years, just some choose to overlook certain companies failures.
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Preaching to the choir.

I love my Threadripper. I also love my Lil' Vega 56. I prefer AMD drivers to Nvidia. But in the end, you've got to play the game.

Also AMD CPUs are slowly becoming the defacto standard. Intel CPUs are looking to be the 'normie' option while Ryzen CPUs are becoming the "Trade secret" or "special reserve" option.


its now only GPUs where AMD is the "budget" or "weird" option.
 
ChadD said:
I can understand that point of view. Its just disappointing to see it so widely held in a forum like [H]. Where I have to believe after years of gaming everyone of us has experienced a NV driver issue... and or a AMD one depending which cards we have been loyal to. I get only a handful of us really go back and forth. But I really have had more driver issues with NV the last few years. I know that is a product of game choices... and I guess my mix of played games might be odd. Still I guess that is why warehouse deals on NV cards can sometimes be good scores lol... they get returned for driver issues just as often I would assume. But folks at the store are more likely to just return them then actually ask the customer if they installed the latest drivers. ;)
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Buy that launch AMD card at launch and tell us how bug free the drivers are...

I’ve switched back and forth between the two brands quite a bit over the last 8 years in my primary gaming PC, and mined with probably 80 different cards from both brands in 2017, 2018, 2019. Nvidia still has better drivers. No question in my mind. Once AMD drivers are mature (not launch drivers) they are 90-95% as good, but they have more bugs and longer lasting bugs than nvidia.
The other thing is that AMD will also have a paper launch. So if you want an AMD you are going to be waiting for a month+ after their launch too. —- and waiting longer for a stable driver on AMD than nvidia. It is expected, their driver team and market saturation is much smaller. I have no beef with a mature AMD driver, but I could spend the next 30 minutes describing bugs I’ve run into with AMD card drivers and about 2 minutes describing bugs I’ve run into with nvidia drivers over the last five years
 
Archaea said:
Buy that launch AMD card at launch and tell us how bug free the drivers are...

I’ve switched back and forth between the two brands quite a bit over the last 8 years in my primary gaming PC, and mined with probably 80 different cards from both brands in 2017, 2018, 2019. Nvidia still has better drivers. No question in my mind. Once AMD drivers are mature (not launch drivers) they are 90-95% as good, but they have more bugs and longer lasting bugs than nvidia.
The other thing is that AMD will also have a paper launch. So if you want an AMD you are going to be waiting for a month+ after their launch too. —- and waiting longer for a stable driver on AMD than nvidia. It is expected, their driver team and market saturation is much smaller. I have no beef with a mature AMD driver, but I could spend the next 30 minutes describing bugs I’ve run into with AMD card drivers and about 2 minutes describing bugs I’ve run into with nvidia drivers over the last five years
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You can quote me now. The nvidia launch will also be a paper launch. Do not expect normal availability for a month plus, at least. Unless you’re super fast and lucky or willing to pay scalper prices.
 
I keep two updated systems, an Nvidia/Intel for my main rig, and a second AMD/AMD rig mostly for fun.

Honestly, as of the 5700 XT drivers, AMD has been worse for stability, but it's nowhere near the claims people make.

Before that I ran a 280X, an RX 470, 480, 560, Vega 64, and Radeon VII. The drivers were solid. You would find an issue here and there (especially with Crossfire) but it wasn't game breaking.

And the driver interface is a lot better than Nvidia, at least. With Nvidia, you adjust a setting and it freezes for like 5 seconds before it applies. I think AMD just need to work on stability a bit.

That said, I would not hesitate to buy AMD again. Yes, Nvidia is more stable, and maybe that matters for professional work rigs, but for general use I would say AMD is good enough.
 
This isn’t good, why make an announcement of what you plan to announce two months into the future? Looks like a desperate move to stop the momentum NVIDIA has created with the 30 series. If NVIDIA can get enough 3080/3090 on the market it will get a huge surge of buyers, especially Pascal and older gen owners.

Those of us with 2080/2080 Ti can easily wait and see what comes up but I’m sitting here with $4000 in my PC upgrade account ready for Ryzen and a new gfx card. Do I have the patience to wait despite knowing I should? My logical side says yes while my impulsive side has already enabled 3090 stock notifications...lol.
 
This is good, definitely eyeing the 3070 so waiting until October is happening. And need to retire the ol girl 4690K and was planning going the x570 route anyways... yeah I can wait, amd who knows supply issues may help me wait longer
 
odditory said:
Someone else buying a high-demand product faster than you and it becomes temporarily sold out =/= paper launch.
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It definitely won’t be a paper launch because there will be inventory available for purchase worldwide. How fast it sells out and the lag time before it can be replenished is based on demand and we can all safely assume these things will sell out in minutes.
 
KazeoHin said:
Yes, but as these are issues affecting MOST PCs, these are 'normal' and aren't issues with Nvidia's products, they're just "issues"
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??? I'm confused I can play fortnight at 4k res. Things don't disappear in forza. Things don't shudder and twitch when I run wow locked at 120 fps.
How are those PC problems... they aren't they are current Nvidia problems.
 
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odditory said:
Someone else buying a high-demand product faster than you and it becomes temporarily sold out =/= paper launch.
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Not having sufficient quantities for demand on launch is a paper launch. They move a few units but create artificial demand with purposely low stock. How many launches have you been around for? I can recall literally some of the first mainstream video card “launches”. And if anyone has figured out the game with launches it’s nvidia.
 
5150Joker said:
It definitely won’t be a paper launch because there will be inventory available for purchase worldwide. How fast it sells out and the lag time before it can be replenished is based on demand and we can all safely assume these things will sell out in minutes.
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If you cannot provide sufficient quantities for day one releases, that’s a paper launch in my book.

Especially when you have had the capacity and ability to move these units out.

Make no mistake, nvidia knows how to play this card. Especially with amd launching months later..


Just because you stock a few hundred cards doesn’t mean it’s a good launch. It creates demand and nvidia loves to do this. I know you’ve been around the last few cycles at least Joker. And you know how it’s been.
 
jmilcher said:
If you cannot provide sufficient quantities for day one releases, that’s a paper launch in my book.

Especially when you have had the capacity and ability to move these units out.

Make no mistake, nvidia knows how to play this card. Especially with amd launching months later..


Just because you stock a few hundred cards doesn’t mean it’s a good launch. It creates demand and nvidia loves to do this. I know you’ve been around the last few cycles at least Joker. And you know how it’s been.
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I hear this argument every single video card release like clockwork and it's been repeated ad nauseam for the last 15+ years and not just for GPU releases but almost anything new. We don't know how many units were produced, only Samsung and NV know and it could be that they're at capacity. Since there's no established definition for paper launch, let's go with what Ars Technica defined it as years ago:

What is a paper launch? In general, the phrase is used to denote product announcements that explicitly compare the "new product" with other actually available products, despite the fact that the newly announced product is not actually available to consumers.
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In this case, the 3000 series will be available worldwide, so it's not a paper launch at all. You can call it a "limited launch" but even then that's just speculation and there's no facts found anywhere to back that assertion up. We just think it might be limited because an unsubstantiated post by Tweaktown said so but none of the AIB partners or NVIDIA themselves have indicated any inventory problems.

Besides, it is AMD that may end up paper launching Big Navi considering TSMC is pretty much at capacity with much more customers than Samsung has right now. So AMD would prioritize 7nm allocation for their CPUs before they would Big Navi so the GPUs would be left with the breadcrumbs. What if NVIDIA saw this and decided to cut a deal with Samsung where they have much more capacity albeit at a slightly worse node? Makes sense to me.
 
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5150Joker said:
I hear this argument every single video card release like clockwork and it's been repeated ad nauseam for the last 15+ years and not just for GPU releases but almost anything new. We don't know how many units were produced, only Samsung and NV know and it could be that they're at capacity. Since there's no established definition for paper launch, let's go with what Ars Technica defined it as years ago:



In this case, the 3000 series will be available worldwide, so it's not a paper launch at all. You can call it a "limited launch" but even then that's just speculation and there's no facts found anywhere to back that assertion up. We just think it might be limited because an unsubstantiated post by Tweaktown said so but none of the AIB partners or NVIDIA themselves have indicated any inventory problems.

Besides, it is AMD that may end up paper launching Big Navi considering TSMC is pretty much at capacity with much more customers than Samsung has right now. So AMD would prioritize 7nm allocation for their CPUs before they would Big Navi so the GPUs would be left with the breadcrumbs. What if NVIDIA saw this and decided to cut a deal with Samsung where they have much more capacity albeit at a slightly worse node? Makes sense to me.
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I think we all define it as we feel. It’s a term the industry has created to define a seemingly normal routing now for new tech launches in this sector.

One thing is for sure, these companies increase revenue with increased demand. Rather the demand is artificial is up to you to decide.

If supply doesn’t remotely meet demand on day one, it’s a paper launch in my book.

15 years ago I do not recall this being a problem. Actually I know it wasn’t. But people doing this for a hobby was more rare in my opinion.

Now anyone can read a tech article and watch a 3 minute video and build a computer. Literally.
 
Manny Calavera said:
No. Custom Asics are better for mining.

This sounds like deliberate misinfo to spike demand and prices.
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:(

that's bad on all fronts, not only disinfo but the price spikes.. it could actually spread to some individuals buying for mining based on ignorance

just seems all bad for us True Enthusiasts :(
 
DBZ33 said:
I’m getting a RTX 3080 no matter what even if the AMD card is close. They still can’t compete with the reliable drivers. Also if you can get your hands on one at launch you could always sell it for a profit If you choose to go with AMD later.
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My plan lol. Hopefully I can snag one at Best Buy on launch.
 
jmilcher said:
So much of the tech world world teeters on speculation.... just take this forum. How many what if threads have we seen in a week? Lol
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The difference is nobody takes random forum speculation as anything more than that. Put it up on a website though and all of a sudden you have an “article” with people asking if it’s true.
 
MangoSeed said:
The difference is nobody takes random forum speculation as anything more than that. Put it up on a website though and all of a sudden you have an “article” with people asking if it’s true.
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Many websites publish the latest leak/speculation/rumor — without any context whatsoever — as if it is the XI th commandment !!
 
The real question is how long is the release date from the "introduction" date?

Availability in mid November?
 
kirbyrj said:
The real question is how long is the release date from the "introduction" date?

Availability in mid November?
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6900 in november
6800 in december
(Is the guesstimate by redgamingtech)

https://hardforum.com/threads/confi...-to-disrupt-4k-gaming.1992290/post-1044713772

Marees said:
More rumors:

As per Redgamingtech's guess (source):

nov-2020 release: 6900 > 3080
dec-2020 release: 6800 between 3070 & 3080

mar-2021 release: 6700 ~ 3070

Prices will be fixed according to market situation & performance vs equivalent nvidia cards

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MangoSeed said:
The difference is nobody takes random forum speculation as anything more than that. Put it up on a website though and all of a sudden you have an “article” with people asking if it’s true.
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From your perspective maybe. But I truly believe some of these people believe what they see and take their and other peoples opinions as gospel. The fan boy is strong on this forum and most tech forums. In fact they spend pages full of replies arguing hypotheticals literally based on no measurable evidence.
 
odditory said:
Someone else buying a high-demand product faster than you and it becomes temporarily sold out =/= paper launch.
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Well its a cute game. Companies don't like the bad PR of being accused of a paper launch. However they also want to beat their competition to the marketing punch. Especially if you know the competition is forced to wait on other partners. So what to do..... well scrounge up a few hundred pieces of stock a few weeks early announce it a few weeks before... cause that seems to be the threshold for any heavy paper launch finger pointing.... then drop that handful of stock into your favorite big box part store that will owe you a solid for the favor.
Its not paper if we had 1-2 cards in your favorite retailers chosen top locations... and a few more for the online stars. Oh sold out in a day well crazy demand we'll have stock in a month or two.... but it wasn't "paper", its just really really popular and when there is stock you better jump fast.

Its a great marketing trick... create some hype and artificially create some extra demand by creating instant shortages. Its GPU marketing Cabbage patch style.
 
jmilcher said:
From your perspective maybe. But I truly believe some of these people believe what they see and take their and other peoples opinions as gospel. The fan boy is strong on this forum and most tech forums. In fact they spend pages full of replies arguing hypotheticals literally based on no measurable evidence.
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Not what I see. People aren't latching onto other opinions here. Instead people are dredging up Web/YT clickbait as "evidence" to back up their wishful thinking. Or just religiously following those Clickbait channels and spouting here as gospel.

Clickbait should carry no more weight than speculation we do here, but for many, someone bothering to publish it, makes it real, and gives it weight it doesn't merit.

A recent prime example, was the absurd "Traversal coprocessor" nonsense, that so many latched onto, after someone made it up for YT clicks.

In reality our local speculations are more like debates, where we can get closer to sensible outcomes precisely because no one here is pretending to have secret voices feeding them the truth, and nonsense can be tempered through logical challenge.

So our speculations here, are subject to reality checks more strenuously, than many forum dwellers apply to the received dogma of their favorite clickbait source.

If someone here spontaneously suggested the "Traversal coprocessor" without clickbait backing, it would have been roundly dismissed as the fantasy it was. But clickbait on a YT channel made it real for many.

So I see the clickbait as more problematic, and more likely to spawn gullible following, than our local speculation and debate.
 
Snowdog said:
Not what I see. People aren't latching onto other opinions here. Instead people are dredging up Web/YT clickbait as "evidence" to back up their wishful thinking. Or just religiously following those Clickbait channels and spouting here as gospel.

Clickbait should carry no more weight than speculation we do here, but for many, someone bothering to publish it, makes it real, and gives it weight it doesn't merit.

A recent prime example, was the absurd "Traversal coprocessor" nonsense, that so many latched onto, after someone made it up for YT clicks.

In reality our local speculations are more like debates, where we can get closer to sensible outcomes precisely because no one here is pretending to have secret voices feeding them the truth, and nonsense can be tempered through logical challenge.

So our speculations here, are subject to reality checks more strenuously, than many forum dwellers apply to the received dogma of their favorite clickbait source.

If someone here spontaneously suggested the "Traversal coprocessor" without clickbait backing, it would have been roundly dismissed as the fantasy it was. But clickbait on a YT channel made it real for many.

So I see the clickbait as more problematic, and more likely to spawn gullible following, than our local speculation and debate.
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I suppose no matter how it’s used, clickbait or not it’s all conjecture. And certainly it has an impact on how and what people purchase in this hobby.
 
MangoSeed said:
The difference is nobody takes random forum speculation as anything more than that. Put it up on a website though and all of a sudden you have an “article” with people asking if it’s true.
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You must be new around here.
 
I'll be waiting for amd. Nvidia isn't a good Linux option.

Coming out after nvidia isn't new for them and they've used it to their advantage before in manipulating nvidia's pricing. Not worried debuting later as hurting their sales. But hey, if it magically does, it'll be easier for me to get the best one... So win for me.
 
Darth Ender said:
I'll be waiting for amd. Nvidia isn't a good Linux option.

Coming out after nvidia isn't new for them and they've used it to their advantage before in manipulating nvidia's pricing. Not worried debuting later as hurting their sales. But hey, if it magically does, it'll be easier for me to get the best one... So win for me.
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This time, there is such a large gap between $800 & $1500, that prices may not change much in that gap wrt performance

otoh, there'll be a bloodbath on cards priced $500 & below
 
Rvenger said:
Yeah, im scooping up an Nvidia card. That is too long of a wait.
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Think what you are saying. Nvidia has a paper launch you will not likely get a 3090 for almost 2 months. Why commit to them because you will see AMD offerings before Nvidia can deliver you a card. Use that brain that god gave you. ( I shouldn't say that because I am an atheist)
 
os2wiz said:
Think what you are saying. Nvidia has a paper launch you will not likely get a 3090 for almost 2 months. Why commit to them because you will see AMD offerings before Nvidia can deliver you a card. Use that brain that god gave you. ( I shouldn't say that because I am an atheist)
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I want both to be honest.
 
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